lugha wrote: » There will have to be both extensive new taxes and charges and massive cuts in public spending. We have barely started to deal with the problem yet. Our deficit equates in ball park figures to about €10,000 per worker (a bit more at the start of the crisis, a bit less now). And it is a deficit so this is not a once of payment. We need to find this amount per worker, EVERY year! A property tax will be a picnic compared to what we eventually will have to endure. Proving that everyone has to make sacrifices IS symbolic. You asked me would it make a meaningful difference. In terms of its impact on the deficit, it won’t. No he is not. There is no conflict in what we are saying. It can be cheaper to buy than to rent (as I say) but the consequence of buying (repaying the capital) can have a seriously negative impact on your quality of life (as DoesNotCompute says)
Izzy Skint wrote: » €10,000 a year per worker ?......overspent right.....simple .....cut spending. QUOTE] Who was in charge of the money, Charles Ponzi--Bernie Madoff.:D:D
Hijpo wrote: » How about if we go with your idea and keep the house but only pay the interest because that way its cheaper to own your home than it is to rent
bgrizzley wrote: » the majority of homeowners in this country probably own their house outright (or almost). the biggest threat to them losing it, is this property tax...
Izzy Skint wrote: » Ye pro tax guys are talking out through your colons....
darkhorse wrote: » Who was in charge of the money, Charles Ponzi--Bernie Madoff
lugha wrote: » Originally Posted by bgrizzley the majority of homeowners in this country probably own their house outright (or almost). the biggest threat to them losing it, is this property tax... Only about one third of houses, if memory serves me, are mortgage free. Happily home repossession is not very prominent in Ireland and it is this, and not the fact that you “own” your home that gives you protection. You seem not to appreciate the distinction between being the legal owner of your home and being the outright owner. Repossession remains a (small) risk if you are only the former.
lugha wrote: » If you could persuade your bank to give you an interest only mortgage then yes you should. You would pay about €550 in interest payments but about €850 in rent for the same house. Do you dispute this? Of course the banks won’t give interest only loans to many of us ,they will want you to repay the capital as well. But this amounts to being forced to save a big chunk of money every month. You “savings” aren’t reflected in a bank balance but in the increased proportion of your home that you own outright. And many would prefer, or even need, to have this “saved” money now, and not in 30 years time when they can recover them by selling or bequeathing their houses. If we were a bit more rational in our attitude to home ownership, more of us would think this out and decide that whatever about benefiting over the long term, we do not want to burden ourselves with a large mortgage that would impact severely on our standard of living. Not to mention that it immunizes you from the delights of negative equity. There are plenty of people around who learned this lesson the hard way and bitterly regret ever buying a home. Anyway, none of this has much to do with property tax. This will likely be passed on to renters so the difference between renting and buying will remain the same.
DoesNotCompute wrote: » Any socialist worth their salt ought to support a property tax. It's bizarre how all the self professed working class heroes on this thread support property ownership yet oppose a property tax. Seems to be a distinctly Irish phenomenon.
Buford Tannen wrote: » Property tax supporter calling other property tax supporters solialist's,they'll love that
Vladimir Kurtains wrote: » Is there something wrong with being called a socialist?
Vladimir Kurtains wrote: » Well first of all, I don't think DNC said that supporting the property tax made you a socialist. He simply said that if you were a socialist, it would make sense to support one. It is possible that people from different ends of the political spectrum can agree on some things.
Don't Register - Don't Pay We won't paytobailout the bankers andspeculators From January 1st 2012 the government are introducing a new Household Tax of €100 for all households, whether you own a modest bedsit, or a massive mansion. From there it will rise in 2013, before splitting into a Water Tax and a Property Tax on the family home in 2014, according to Labour & Fine Gael's programme for government. From €100, it will quickly rise to €1,000+. Far from improving services, this will just go to paying off the gambling debts of the very bankers and speculators who caused this crisis. The Socialist Party, as a founding member of the Campaign Against the Household and Water Taxes, believes a mass campaign of non-payment can defeat this unjust tax, just like we beat the water tax in the past. If millions of people boycott this tax, as part of an organised movement, we can make the charge uncollectable, and threats of court appearances and fines unworkable. This is our chance to not just defeat an attempt to further rob ordinary people, but to strike a blow against the entire failed austerity
Vladimir Kurtains wrote: » The Socialist Party aren't the only socialists in Ireland though (and indeed they lie on the very extreme end of, if not beyond, what most people consider socialism). Labour agree with it, for example.
Thousands of householders who have paid the Household Charge have received warning letters on non-payment in error. Local Government Management Agency urged people who have received such letters to make contact with the agency. Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Paul McSweeney said if householders do not notify the agency, they will receive a second letter and "technically" could still face a penalty.
To ask the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government the financial cost associated with the recent letters posted to homes in Waterford city this week in relation to the household charge; from whom the list of names was obtained; if his attention has been drawn to the fact that many of these letters were forwarded to persons who are now deceased; and if he will make a statement on the matter. - John Halligan.
Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government (Mr. P. Hogan) The communication and advertising campaign for the Household Charge is a matter for the Local Government Management Agency (LGMA) and the local authorities. The Agency and local authorities are seeking to maximise compliance among liable owners with the Household Charge, and thereby secure much needed revenue to pay for essential local services. I am also informed by the LGMA that during the week beginning 15 October, Waterford City Council issued 8,500 letters in relation to the Household Charge. Currently no single database exists in Ireland of registered property owners. The collection of the Household Charge via a self-assessment declaration provides for the collation of such information in relation to residential property, and local authorities are continuing to identify undeclared properties through appropriate data sharing provisions. Significant efforts have been expended in matching self-declared information with other datasets and in refining the resulting data. I understand that the addresses and names used in the letters which are currently being issued by Local Authorities, including Waterford City, reminding people to pay the Household Charge, have been based on a data matching exercise with the Property Registration Authority. I understand that every effort has been made to try and ensure letters are sent to current property owners. However there are some instances where letters are being sent to previous owners of properties, due to the fact that the more recent property owners may not have registered their property with the Authority or the transfer of the property has not been completed. Thus in some cases the information contained within these datasets might not have been updated with the most recent and relevant details. As a consequence the data matching exercise can give rise to situations in which people may receive a letter where they have already paid the charge. I understand that the letters which issued in recent weeks invite recipients who are not liable, or who have previously paid the Household Charge, or in the event of inaccuracy or error, to contact the Household Charge Bureau to allow the Agency to update their records accordingly.
There were some heated exchanges in the Council Chamber as South Tipp Councillors rejected a motion calling on the Government not to proceed with a property tax.The motion from Fianna Fail’s Sylvia Cooney Sheehan was ultimately defeated by 10 votes to 6 - all ten votes against were from Fine Gael Councillors.Those in favour of the motion were 3 Fianna Fail, 2 Workers & Unemployed Action Group and 1 Labour.Whether or not the motion would have been carried had all 26 Councillors been present for the vote is a moot point.
Am Chile wrote: » http://www.tippfm.com/news/detail/south_tipperary_councillors_back_imposition_of_property_taxFianna Fail firmly on the bandwagon now against a property tax those in FG who vote down such motions shoud watch the their council seats--Just a thought regarding those who support a property tax tds/councillors since they want to hit peoples pockets, what if people were to organise to hit their pockets to see how they might like it-for FG or Lab members who are in favour of property taxes if they happen to own a small business or shop in an area-what if there was an organised boycott of their businesses in retaliation for supporting property taxes-if someone was to create a facebook page with a list of small businesses/shops owned by FG/Lab members calling on the public not to shop at any the listed premises-what if some of us were to start placing pickets outside some of their premises in big numbers,once people would see a picket outside somewhere they would more then likely be put off shopping there, causing a FG/Lab member to lose money therefore hitting their pockets like they want to hit ours-just a thought in mind.
donalg1 wrote: » Ah come on seriously why in the world would Fianna Fail be against a property tax do you think? It wouldnt be to try and boost their popularity by any chance in the hope of getting back into power at the next election. Cant believe some people are actually buying into this nonsense, bet they would be stupid enough to vote FF next time too!! People seem to forget who were in power when the Country went down the jacks which has led us to this austerity and the very property tax they now say they dont agree with, bit late there I'm afraid FF.
lugha wrote: » Our deficit equates in ball park figures to about €10,000 per worker (a bit more at the start of the crisis, a bit less now). And it is a deficit so this is not a once of payment. We need to find this amount per worker, EVERY year!
lugha wrote: » Who was in charge? The people we choose in free and fair elections to be in charge were.
Hijpo wrote: » Well i got the impression that some of the Pro's were of the opinion that the property tax was proposed as a coalition compromise. Now that the other parties are against the property tax the ones that get elected cant use the excuse of a coalition compromise if they try bring it in again. Bye bye property tax and the poxy HHC and its fines with it.
donalg1 wrote: » No chance of the HHC going or property tax for that matter thinking so is just wishful really.
Hijpo wrote: » John Halligan sent this to Phil And got this reply [/B]
donalg1 wrote: » Cant believe some people are actually buying into this nonsense, bet they would be stupid enough to vote FF next time too!!
bgrizzley wrote: » if you read my post and take into account the addendum "or almost" id bet that takes in the majority(although subjective)
lugha wrote: » You seem not to appreciate the distinction between being the legal owner of your home and being the outright owner. Repossession remains a (small) risk if you are only the former.
bgrizzley wrote: » And how the feck does someone who owns their home outright get repossessed?
darkhorse wrote: » ……but just before you spout any more of this crap(most of which I really felt the need to delete) about "the people we chose", I just want you to know that I did'nt chose them.
lugha wrote: » Well I think you would lose your bet! As I said, about one third of homes are mortgage-free which means that a clear majority of 67% (Am Chile would call this vast! ) are not. And 34% is not almost, or anywhere in the vicinity of almost. Why exactly you are trying to play down the very real mortgage crisis is not clear to me but to suggest that a mortgage payment of perhaps €1,500 per month won’t cause a problem but a property tax payment of perhaps €500 per year will, is simply daft. It seems you don’t appreciate the distinction between former and latter either. You’re deleting what I post???? That’s a good trick! How do you do that? :P As for who the people (and darkhorse is not the sum total of the people) chose? Well I could have sworn blue that FF were ELECTED as the biggest party in the state right through the boom years up until 2011. What’s your understanding of how they came to be in power?
lugha wrote: » Well I could have sworn blue that FF were ELECTED as the biggest party in the state right through the boom years up until 2011. What’s your understanding of how they came to be in power?
Steven81 wrote: » Joe Duffy will sort it all out, people do love a good moan, makes great entertainment.
