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Alex Ferguson on Ferdinand and Roberts

flyswatter

So Sir Alex Ferguson has been having a go at Jason Roberts during the week for not supporting the Kick It Out campaign by wearing their shirt.

Rio Ferdinand has now decided not to wear it in protest against (presumably similarly to Roberts) the lack of care being taken against racism in the game recently. Ferguson is very embarassed about this and not pleased with his player.

What do people feel about this? I respect the two players decisions not to wear the shirt and think that Roberts especially is to be applauded for making his point known.

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Fuhrer

CSF wrote: »

I mean in terms of bans, specifically replying to a reference to doping.

Oh right, yeah true I suppose.

TheDoc

flyswatter wrote: »

So Sir Alex Ferguson has been having a go at Jason Roberts during the week for not supporting the Kick It Out campaign by wearing their shirt.

Rio Ferdinand has now decided not to wear it in protest against (presumably similarly to Roberts) the lack of care being taken against racism in the game recently. Ferguson is very embarassed about this and not pleased with his player.

What do people feel about this? I respect the two players decisions not to wear the shirt and think that Roberts especially is to be applauded for making his point known.

Ferguson announced all his players would support the campaign. Ferdinand didnt

When a Utd player falls out of line they get a serious kick up the arse. I'm not reading into it anymore then that.

Although at the same time, what those two idiots seem to fail to comprahend is Kick it out campaign has no influence or powers in the game, and instead focus' the majority of its work at grass roots and younger levels.

If they were really interested, they'd shed some of their massive wages to the campaign to maybe help it get more involved in the professional game.

Stupid move by both, and moreso Ferdinand, as when his manager says players are doing something, and they don't. Well, look at the history of our club.

I'm not saying he will be sold by the club obviously, but expect him to be dropped for the next few games. And after yesterdays performance, I'd rather see a young lad in the starting lineup. Needs to stop bringing attention to himself and his ever waining game

mitosis

Ferguson announced all his players would support the campaign. Maybe he should have checked before making his statement.

Ferdinand et al, their not wearing the shirt is less a protest than a show of non-support. Players are people and entitled to their beliefs regardless of what a manager says.

TheDoc

mitosis wrote: »

Ferguson announced all his players would support the campaign. Maybe he should have checked before making his statement.

Ferdinand et al, their not wearing the shirt is less a protest than a show of non-support. Players are people and entitled to their beliefs regardless of what a manager says.

He didn't need to check. There was no decision. The team had suffered two incidents of racial abuse both with Evra and by association with Ferdinand. The manager of United doesn't need to check with his players, if he says they are wearing them, they are.

I of course agree players are entitled to their own views, opinions and beliefs, but at the same time, aslong as that does not undermine the club, the manager or the team.

And yesterdays actions undermine the team, the club and the manager. The club are big supporters of the project, and having their prominant black player protest against the organization ( for completely incorrect and ill informed reasons) is actually a let down.

I read a good article about how its Fergie who has let Rio down, and it makes some very valid points.

The kick it out organisation were very vocal after both rulings for the Terry-Ferdinand and Evra-Suaraz case noting that the penalities were a joke and an insult to the footballing men and woman who have suffered racial abuse in their careers etc etc.

If they really have a problem that they want to address, they need to be doing something that will actually impact. Highlighting with the FA, the PFA, not an organisation whose sole movement is education and informing targetting younger agre groups...

The Kick it out Statement

Kick It Out works throughout the football, educational and community sectors to challenge discrimination, encourage inclusive practices and work for positive change.

The campaign is supported and funded by the game's governing bodies, including founding body the Professional Footballers Association (PFA), the Premier League and The Football Association.

They have ONE annual game per premier league season to promote the organisation, which was yesterday. Their primary focus ( from viewing their work over the last week ) is REALLY GOOD work in communities, youth academies and youth leagues in the country, gathering volunteers from prominant Black coaches, managers and players from as many areas and leagues possible.
There is good support form lower league players and coaches, there is good support from Championship level, there is little support from the PL from looking a their guests, and their history shows no records of Ferdinand ( or Roberts from what I can see) providing their services at educational talks, sessions or community projects.

So considering they did **** all to support an organization that has an active role for over ten years, they can just keep it to themselves. Its the age ld saying, if you arnt willing to put up, then shut up. Especially when the likes of those two are in prominent positions to offer their services.

Corholio

I get the impression United as a club were supporting it, and I presume agreed with the players. If this is the case than Ferdinand is wrong to do it without informing them, not wrong for doing it mind, but still silly if it was the case.

Dozen Wicked Words

Excellent piece by Okwonga, journo with, amongst others, the UK Independent and Guardian newspapers. The whole article is on his blog: http://www.okwonga.com/

It offers an interesting insight into the whole debate and highlights just how small the organisation of Kick it Out is, I found the final paragraph interesting but there is probably a bit in it for all sides to consider their viewpoint vindicated:

Kick It Out are unfortunate in that their success in gaining visibility has made them the public emblem of all efforts to fight discrimination in football; and that they are thus the unlucky anvil on which Roberts has chosen to beat out his point.

eigrod

Cienciano wrote: »

Fair play to rio and roberts. Fergie should never of commented on roberts,was none of his business

Correct. Could simply have said at the PC that what Jason Roberts does is a matter for him and Reading and no further comment. But he couldnt resist having a pop and its come back and bitten him on the ass now.

LuckyLloyd

TheDoc wrote: »

He didn't need to check. There was no decision. The team had suffered two incidents of racial abuse both with Evra and by association with Ferdinand. The manager of United doesn't need to check with his players, if he says they are wearing them, they are.

Apparently not.

mitosis

I would be very surprised if a club was entitled to dictate the politics of the players, and reiterate my point that there should have been no statement made without consultation. If there was consultation (and there may have been) and the players unanimously agreed, then there's an issue for the manager to address.

TheDoc

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Apparently not.

Thats my point, and why Fergie had no reservations in publicly stating Ferdinand will be dealt with, where alot of managers would dodge the question, with some no comment crap.

At United you fall in line, and if you don't, you face the consequences, as many of the current playing staff can inform Ferdinand about, and many previous players I'm sure can attest to, and regret.

Prick!

This is what I believe happened.

Fergie criticised Roberts for not wearing the t-shirt.

Rio then doesn't wear it without telling fergie. fergie has to condemn Rio or else he'd be seen as a hypocrite.

Turtyturd

There is probably a lesson in that for Ferguson as much as anyone else.

Anyway, seems like more players refused to wear them before today's games...Ferdinand will probably be considered a modern day Rosa Parks instead of an attention seeker.:pac:

[Deleted User]

Prick! wrote: »

This is what I believe happened.

Fergie criticised Roberts for not wearing the t-shirt.

Rio then doesn't wear it without telling fergie. fergie has to condemn Rio or else he'd be seen as a hypocrite.

He has previous here tbf.

Will I Amnt

rarnes1 wrote: »

He has previous here tbf.

I'll take a conservative estimate that 100% of the managers in the league are hypocrites tbf.

gerryo777

CSF wrote: »

Do you really want Rio in the media more talking about this? Should Joleon, Kenwynne, Gareth & co all give interviews too? I think people would be complaining just as much if they were playing this out vocally in the media tbh.

The general footballing world really doesn't take racism very seriously and that is portrayed equally clearly on this forum.

There is racism in all walks of like, it will never be eradicated, never.
Human beings are like that, it's the nature of the beast.
Petty complaints of racism in football do more harm to the real issues faced by people who suffer real rasist abuse in their ordinary lives.
It amazes me how footballers, not the most intelligent form of life, on massive money (no morality there) get so upset at abuse on a football field.
Abusing someone in the lowest and foulest language seems to be ok but if race or colour is brought into it they run crying to the FA or the police.
The double standards of some of these 'role models' is laughable.

Turtyturd

gerryo777 wrote: »

There is racism in all walks of like, it will never be eradicated, never.
Human beings are like that, it's the nature of the beast.
Petty complaints of racism in football do more harm to the real issues faced by people who suffer real rasist abuse in their ordinary lives.
It amazes me how footballers, not the most intelligent form of life, on massive money (no morality there) get so upset at abuse on a football field.
Abusing someone in the lowest and foulest language is ok but if race or colour is brought into it they run crying to the FA or the police.
The double standards of some of these 'role models' is laughable.

Wow.

gerryo777

Turtyturd wrote: »

Wow.

Don't get me wrong, I think racism shouldn't be accepted in any form.
God knows, the Irish put up with enough of it through the years.
But a quick question, if an Irish player was called a 'paddy cnut' on a football pitch, do you think he'd complain about it?

The_Kew_Tour

gerryo777 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I think racism shouldn't be accepted in any form.
God knows, the Irish put up with enough of it through the years.
But a quick question, if an Irish player was called a 'paddy cnut' on a football pitch, do you think he'd complain about it?

I remember when played youth football over I was called Paddy **** few times and by black players mostly. So I kinda get your point to extent, but overall I still think its different ball game for more historical reasons.

Although saying that all types of **** was handed out.

Free Speech at it right wing best.

gerryo777

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I remember when played youth football over I was called Paddy **** few times and by black players mostly. So I kinda get your point to extent, but overall I still think its different ball game for more historical reasons.

Although saying that all types of **** was handed out.

Free Speech at it right wing best.

That's the point I'm trying to make.
If every player on a football pitch wore a mike and was recorded for the 90 mins, I doubt you could even print some of the things that are said. Any sh1te seems to be allowable to try and put a player off his game, except the colour of someone's skin.
Racism has a lot of ways to rear it's ugly head, referring to someone's colour is only one of them.
Real racism happens in the real world, were people are refused jobs, housing and opportunity because of who they are.
Pampered and spoiled overpaid footballers don't live in the real world.

Sorry, that's probably going a bit off topic.

If ferdinand and roberts idea was to focus people and draw attention to the racism debate then it worked well.

Turtyturd

gerryo777 wrote: »

That's the point I'm trying to make.
If every player on a football pitch wore a mike and was recorded for the 90 mins, I doubt you could even print some of the things that are said. Any sh1te seems to be allowable to try and put a player off his game, except the colour of someone's skin.
Racism has a lot of ways to rear it's ugly head, referring to someone's colour is only one of them.
Real racism happens in the real world, were people are refused jobs, housing and opportunity because of who they are.
Pampered and spoiled overpaid footballers don't live in the real world.

Sorry, that's probably going a bit off topic.

If ferdinand and roberts idea was to focus people and draw attention to the racism debate then it worked well.

You do realise that institutional and individual racism are real?

The_Kew_Tour

gerryo777 wrote: »

That's the point I'm trying to make.
If every player on a football pitch wore a mike and was recorded for the 90 mins, I doubt you could even print some of the things that are said. Any sh1te seems to be allowable to try and put a player off his game, except the colour of someone's skin.
Racism has a lot of ways to rear it's ugly head, referring to someone's colour is only one of them.
Real racism happens in the real world, were people are refused jobs, housing and opportunity because of who they are.
Pampered and spoiled overpaid footballers don't live in the real world.

Actually just finished reading a book about a British Solider from London who was in Auschwitz and when he came home and moved to Liverpool he could not get job cause of his southern accent. This actually still happens today in England funny enough.(dont think its huge problem as it was, but it still exists even if only in minor cases).

I do think though that racism ha to be dealt with asap. The Terry case for me was complete and utter joke. How we are still talking about it today after it happening over year ago is just ridiculous.

gerryo777

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Actually just finished reading a book about a British Solider from London who was in Auschwitz and when he came home and moved to Liverpool he could not get job cause of his southern accent. This actually still happens today in England funny enough.(dont think its huge problem as it was, but it still exists even if only in minor cases).

I do think though that racism ha to be dealt with asap. The Terry case for me was complete and utter joke. How we are still talking about it today after it happening over year ago is just ridiculous.

25 years ago if you were around a UK football ground the abuse being thrown was far worse than it is now. Some players own fans used to abuse them ffs.
Massive strides have been taken since then.
I'll say it again though, racism will never be wiped out of football or society in general for that matter.
Anyone who thinks that it will is living in fantasy land.

gerryo777

Turtyturd wrote: »

You do realise that institutional and individual racism are real?

Is there institutional racism in the premier league?

niallo27

I think his point was you can say what you want about the persons family, their past life, their looks or whatever but mention the word black and it's the end of the ****en world.

The_Kew_Tour

gerryo777 wrote: »

25 years ago if you were around a UK football ground the abuse being thrown was far worse than it is now. Some players own fans used to abuse them ffs.
Massive strides have been taken since then.
I'll say it again though, racism will never be wiped out of football or society in general for that matter.
Anyone who thinks that it will is living in fantasy land.

I agree, but I for one would still like to see zero tolerance taken when racism does occur in terraces and stands across football stadiums throughout the world.

It will always be there, but the less the better for all.

eigrod

gerryo777 wrote: »

There is racism in all walks of like, it will never be eradicated, never.
Human beings are like that, it's the nature of the beast.
Petty complaints of racism in football do more harm to the real issues faced by people who suffer real rasist abuse in their ordinary lives.
It amazes me how footballers, not the most intelligent form of life, on massive money (no morality there) get so upset at abuse on a football field.
Abusing someone in the lowest and foulest language seems to be ok but if race or colour is brought into it they run crying to the FA or the police.
The double standards of some of these 'role models' is laughable.

A lot of truth in there.

And who was it that once said "When an Italian tells me it's pasta on the plate, I check under the sauce to make sure" ?

adox

gerryo777 wrote: »

There is racism in all walks of like, it will never be eradicated, never.
Human beings are like that, it's the nature of the beast.
Petty complaints of racism in football do more harm to the real issues faced by people who suffer real rasist abuse in their ordinary lives.
It amazes me how footballers, not the most intelligent form of life, on massive money (no morality there) get so upset at abuse on a football field.
Abusing someone in the lowest and foulest language seems to be ok but if race or colour is brought into it they run crying to the FA or the police.
The double standards of some of these 'role models' is laughable.

So players are thick, get paid loads of money and so are hypocritical and are petty if they report racial abuse on the pitch from other players?
Sorry did I say report, I stand corrected, run crying to the FA or police.

Are you for ****ing real?

Sgt Pepper 64

gerryo777 wrote: »

There is racism in all walks of like, it will never be eradicated, never.
Human beings are like that, it's the nature of the beast.

I completely agree with your first paragraph. Human beings will also find something to hate about each other, the colour of our skin could easily be the colour of our hair, or any physical difference at all for that matter.
The problem with football is that it is the preserve of the "working class" unlike rugby for example.
Racism exists in all walks of life, but football provides a chance for "like minded" individuals to come together and in a group they then feel "braver" to speak their vile filth. Its like they feel they have permission to lift the normal social graces and show their true selves

And yes, England, and indeed other countries have long been divided by location. The north\south divide in England, and even the north\south of the river divide.
In India, the caste system is alive and well, which has presented something of a problem in the new world of call centres

The only way to tackle the problem in football is to do something the clubs just wont - make it a strictly family sport by only letting in fathers\mothers with young children and no more groups of males. But that would mean lost gate revenue and the FA have ruined the sport by getting into bed with sky, so that wont happen

Racism is alive and well, along with sexistism, ageism etc etc

CSF

gerryo777 wrote: »

There is racism in all walks of like, it will never be eradicated, never.
Human beings are like that, it's the nature of the beast.
Petty complaints of racism in football do more harm to the real issues faced by people who suffer real rasist abuse in their ordinary lives.
It amazes me how footballers, not the most intelligent form of life, on massive money (no morality there) get so upset at abuse on a football field.
Abusing someone in the lowest and foulest language seems to be ok but if race or colour is brought into it they run crying to the FA or the police.
The double standards of some of these 'role models' is laughable.

It's great that you have an opinion. I'm a big fan of that sort of thing. Unfortunately you're completely wrong.

gerryo777

CSF wrote: »

It's great that you have an opinion. I'm a big fan of that sort of thing. Unfortunately you're completely wrong.

It's great that you have an opinion too, you stick with yours and I'll stick with mine.