dvpower wrote: » So the idea that we could substitute it with an income tax or VAT increase isn't realistic.
Bullseye1 wrote: » Administrators is where I would start, civil servents, TDs, management. I'm sure we could knock 100,000 out of public employment. I'm all for private industry employment. There is a lot of time wasted by Garda stopping people for motor tax when they could be better employed. Computer technology is sufficency advanced to prosecute those driving without motor tax.
dvpower wrote: » Half? How many Doctors, Gardai, Teachers and Firefighters do you intend sacking? Do we reduce social protection payments by 50% too?
dvpower wrote: » No - not not tax at all; - no Property Tax. What (if anything) do you think should replace the property tax. So, your argument is against tax increases in general, not the property tax specifically?
dvpower wrote: » Ah. Forgive me. I thought you were putting forward a radical cost cutting plan. When really you were just spouting the tired old 'sack the politicians - that'll fix it' silliness. Sorry about that - I made the mistake of expecting some sense from you.
darkhorse wrote: » Here is a question that I asked several times on this forum:- What is the difference in me paying €10 per week extra income tax from my salary, and paying €500 for a property tax, assuming that is what it would be.
Micky Dolenz wrote: » What about needless quangos or overpaid consultants? fcik, we just got the finger out and renegotiated drug prices recently. Why didn't the government do this at the start of their term? Lets talk brass figures here dv. there are loads of places to make savings and cuts.
Micky Dolenz wrote: » And you believe the normal,everyday home owner of the Republic Of Ireland is fair game?
Micky Dolenz wrote: » I'm not against tax increases as long as it's on a sliding scale.
Micky Dolenz wrote: » I have always paid high enough tax and if we turn over a lot in a given year I know exactly what we need to pay. This is business. I get that.
Micky Dolenz wrote: » What I don't get is hitting the home owner in the Republic of Ireland with a nonsense, no reward "tax". It makes no sense. It's extortion, plain and simple.
dxhound2005 wrote: » This is an invitation to private property owners to break the law. The people issuing these invitations will not be around to help private property owners if they decide to follow this course and then find that this causes difficulties. Some people have already lost money by paying late and there will be other consequences like legal problems and extra expence with inheritance when a person dies and the charge is outstanding.
Micky Dolenz wrote: » Scare tactics. Your government will not be in power over generations. Don't fool yourself in to thinking that. The current government, with this tax does not represent the majority of voters. They need to address their stance or they will not have another term. They are losing voters on a stupid law when they don't need too.
dxhound2005 wrote: » The poll yesterday gave the government parties an increase. Sinn Fein was the biggest loser down 4%. There was a question about property tax which produced a majority against. But I suspect if the question was do you want to increase VAT for instance (or anything that will cost people money) that would produce a similar response. This is a new tax/charge here but it is common all round the world without society breaking down. It will become part of the mix of taxes here. You needn't be depending on any parties likely to feature in government in the near future to abolish it.
dxhound2005 wrote: » I don't think it is right for a Moderator to accuse a poster of scare tactics if the post is factual which mine is.
Micky Dolenz wrote: » Address all these issues and we will save billions.
dvpower wrote: » Good. It will be - based on property price bands. Glad to have you aboard!. Property tax will be very predictable - one of its strengths. I know how you feel. I pay a small fortune in tax and I don't see the reward. That's (pretty much all) taxes for you
Ghandee wrote: » It doesn't matter which govt insisted DV, if it was FF decision, that decision should have been made null and void when a new govt was formed. They promised to burn bondholders before they got into govt, then u-turned when they got in. Meanwhile the troika tell us the opposite of what both govt's have said. You may want to watch this clip btw.
dxhound2005 wrote: » I don't think it is right for a Moderator to accuse a poster of scare tactics if the post is factual which mine is. You can look at the legislation to see the provisions about late payment fees and transfer of property are real and in force. On your political point you should know that Sinn Fein introduced a bill to repeal the HHC and it was defeated.
dvpower wrote: » Moderators are just posters too - I'm sure Micky will take advise on any moderation decisions he makes while he's actively contributing to the thread. Anyway, being accused of propagating scare tactics is mild - in the last few days I've been accused of being a government shill, a member of a fascist organisation and of having an adventurous sexual relationship with Angela Merkel. Only one of these was actually true:mad:
Micky Dolenz wrote: » . You will have to explain how property tax will be predicable please.
Hijpo wrote: » you shouldnt have said that, now they will want your source/figures/proof etc
Micky Dolenz wrote: » PS, I hear dv, likes to rim Angela Merkel
dvpower wrote: » 1994 was 18 years ago, not a 'mere few months' ago. To put it in context - 1994 was also the year of the first IRA ceasefire. Should we hold everyone to the positions they once held a long time ago. btw, what's the source and context of that second quote?Originally Posted by Enda Kenny 1994“If the Government fail to appreciate the passion with which people will defend their rights to own their home and have it looking as well as it should, it is making a serious mistake”
: Fianna Fail’s proposal, now endorsed by the Labour Party, to introduce by 2014 an annual, recurring residential property tax on the family home is unfair
Fianna Fail’s proposal, now endorsed by the Labour Party, to introduce by 2014 an annual, recurring residential property tax on the family home is unfair for three reasons: • The initial flat rate charge means that owners of houses in standard neighbourhoods will pay as much as the owners of mansions. • It will be difficult to pay for asset-rich but income poor households, particularly the elderly and the unemployed; • It will be deeply unfair for a young generation that paid exorbitant amounts of stamp duty and VAT on the purchases on over-valued houses, many of whom now find themselves in negative equity.
btw, what's the source and context of that second quote?
I think this tax was concocted at the midnight hour. It reminds me of a vampire tax in that it drives a stake through the heart of home ownership, through enthusiasm and initiative, and sucks the life blood of people who want to own their own home and better their position.If the Government fail to appreciate the passion with which people will defend their rights to own their home and have it looking as well as it should, it is making a serious mistake. Residential property tax is the one issue in the budget causing great anxiety to those who come within its thresholds. It is also causing great stress to those on the verge of the thresholds who fear they will be sucked into the net next year
dvpower wrote: » Yeah - afraid so. Sorry for looking for some evidence for 'facts' you put forward. Can I take it that you don't have any? :eek: Break out the tinfoil hats. Since you don't trust any politician, you should really study the legislation. It's your friend. It hasn't - not once. Care to give your take on the question? - it seems that, so far, it can be all things to all men.
Am Chile wrote: » How about this quote from the fine gael manifesto pre election 2011-pg 66http://www.finegael2011.com/pdf/Fine%20Gael%20Manifesto%20low-res.pdf Section 8. Taxation of Property and Wealthhttp://www.finegael2011.com/pdf/LessWasteLowerTaxesStrongerGrowth.pdf Right here during a dail debate in 1994.[/URL]http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/1994/02/02/00007.asp FG certainly misled a lot of voters that they were against property taxes from their manifestos pre election last year.
K-9 wrote: » Nobody voted based on a FG pledge made in 1994, if they did I suggest withdrawing the vote. FG and Labour promised certain things in a manifesto, thing is, we've had coalitions for the last 30 years, what we want as voters, doesn't get delivered. Bit like what we want in a sweet shop isn't going to get delivered. Adults vote, we get a result, politicians sit down to compromise, this is where posters on websites get to claim the moral high ground. They don't have to compromise, just rant away on their chosen subject. How their pet subject didn't get tackled, the Public Service not cut enough for FG disillusioned voters, the wealthy not taxed enough for Labour supporters. FG hardcore supporters will moan about Public Service pay and Welfare rates. Labour will seek to protect those, the grown ups reach compromises. The grown ups decided no changes to the Croker agreement, no changes to Welfare basic rates and no increases to income tax rates.
Am Chile wrote: » Only one problem with this analysis was one promise by one Eamon Gilmore on property taxes pre election-so who exactly is comprising the other when both parties pledged opposition to property taxes pre election last year ?http://www.herald.ie/opinion/eamon-gilmore-the-man-behind-the-mask-2374050.html(THE man favoured to be the next Taoiseach has promised not to cut social welfare or raise tax rates.Instead Eamon Gilmore wants to tax the "high fliers" of the Celtic Tiger economy in order to rebuild our shattered economy. But at the same time he has promised:Not to introduce a property tax on residential homes)
dvpower wrote: » To an individual in the tax net - not much. To the state - a big difference. Income tax yields are unpredictable. When a recession comes along the income tax yield falls - just when the state really needs the cash. A property tax is much broader based (non PAYE people, retired people who don't pay income taxes, people who live on undeclared income, people who live outside the state but own houses here (Germans:eek:), landlords who own multiple properties ...)
dvpower wrote: » The Labour manifesto did contain a property tax. So Labour wanted one, FG didn't, the state had signed up to one as a condition of the bailout and then we got one. I'm not seeing the major problem here.
TWENTY-SIX former politicians who are earning pensions of more than €100,000 a year are escaping a super tax because of a legal loophole.Former Fianna Fail ministers Charlie McCreevy, Dermot Ahern,Noel Dempsey, John O'Donoghue, Joe Walsh, Michael Woodsand Martin Cullen -- and former Progressive Democrats leaderMary Harney -- are among those not having to pay the 20pc tax.The loophole arises because the higher rate applies only if a single pension is worth more than €100,000 but not if the politician is getting a number of pensions with a combined value above that level.
K-9 wrote: » Nobody voted based on a FG pledge made in 1994, if they did I suggest withdrawing the vote. FG hardcore supporters will moan about Public Service pay and Welfare rates. Labour will seek to protect those, the grown ups reach compromises.
Am Chile wrote: » In todays Irish Independent we learnhttp://www.independent.ie/national-news/expoliticians-escaping-20pc-tax-thanks-to-legal-loophole-3265683.htmlWe keep hearing from some people on here, and FG reps in the media we need to raise more money etc, yet they don,t seem to want to close any tax loopholes.
