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Waterford City lowest % payment of household Charge

Max Powers

Im not surpised only 44.5% paid, people are disillusioned, highest unemployment rate in country, less disposable income than average, bailout etc.

On the other hand, the city badly needs to put its best foot forward in presenting itself, will the shortfall lead to reduction in street cleaning, keeping parks tidy, possible council lay-offs. Added to that, you have people who are more than capable of paying and have a stero-typical Irish attitude of i dont care about anyone outside my clan, to hell with the rest of society.

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wmpdd3

I got 4 letters in the 4 different male names that may have lived at this address. It seems it may have been taken from the electoral register database?

My neighbour got a letter in her dead husbands name, she was so upset all day yesterday. It has just been a long time since she got a letter with his name on it. She also paid.

7upfree

wmpdd3 wrote: »

My neighbour got a letter in her dead husbands name, she was so upset all day yesterday. It has just been a long time since she got a letter with his name on it. She also paid.

Sweet Jesus. The insensitive fcuking bastards.

7upfree

Max Powers wrote: »

yep, received a warning letter even though I did pay it. What a country we live in, does anything with the govts hogan's fingerprints on work well.

FYP.

Sully

The City and County council are using the only database available to them, which is why many people are getting it under names of those no longer with us or maiden names. Didn't say where this database was got from or anything tho.

Fwiw, the Property Tax has been on the cards for years by Fianna Fail. I think it might even be in the deal they did with the EU/IMF. It falls under Hogans department and he/his department had made a cocks arse of implementing it (like many things this govt has got their hands on, like Water Charges) and dealing with the pressure.

Fine Gael were opposed to this in the run up to the election and before but had decided to implement it anyway - not for the craic but for a way to raise much needed funds. Labour were in favour of it IIRC.

deise blue

There was a commitment made by the FF Government to the IMF to implement a property tax by 2014 - neither FG or Labour were left with any choice but to implement same , but at least they seem determined to introduce this tax at a lower level than that suggested by the IMF.

The horror of the forthcoming tax is that it is being managed by Fine Gael's Phil Hogan whose ability to infuriate the entire population by his cack handed handling of any difficult situation is second to none.

How is this idiot still a minister ?

Am Chile

deise blue wrote: »

There was a commitment made by the FF Government to the IMF to implement a property tax by 2014 - neither FG or Labour were left with any choice but to implement same , but at least they seem determined to introduce this tax at a lower level than that suggested by the IMF.

The horror of the forthcoming tax is that it is being managed by Fine Gael's Phil Hogan whose ability to infuriate the entire population by his cack handed handling of any difficult situation is second to none.

How is this idiot still a minister ?

Rubbish-some reps from other political parties from their meetings with the trokia have said numerous times, a property tax can replaced by another tax measure as long it raises the same amount of revenue.

Mr
Doherty said that the Troika made it clear to his party that aspects of the
bailout could be renegotiated as long as revenue targets were met.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0827/minister-noonan-says-no-property-tax-detail.html

THE
TROIKA is “not wedded” to a property tax and is open to the measure being
replaced by an alternative that would raise the same revenue, Fianna Fáil
finance spokesman Michael McGrath has said.

He
also said officials from the European Union, International Monetary Fund and
European Central Bank had not suggested a blanket ban on property tax for
pensioners, but stressed ability to pay had to be taken into account.

Mr
McGrath met members of the troika mission in Dublin this week and said they made
“crystal clear” their position on the incoming tax.

“We
went at them very directly on that question. I wanted to get absolute clarity.
They made it crystal clear all measures set out in the memorandum of
understanding are open to being replaced with good-quality alternatives that
meet the targets,” Mr McGrath said. “I explicitly asked them would that apply to
property tax and they said yes. They are not wedded to a property tax

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1019/1224325457995.html

but at least they seem determined to introduce this tax at a lower level than
that suggested by the IMF.

In all seriousness does anyone think only for there was a campaign of opposition to the household tax, they wouldn,t of introduced the rate of property tax the IMF suggested ? they know full well the opposition to the household tax is only a walk to the opposition they re gonna face when trying to introduce a property tax next year, a recent poll confirms this by the strong opposition found to property taxes.

The
poll also shows strong opposition across the board to the Government’s plan to
introduce a property tax and water charges next year. Asked for their views on a
property tax, 66 per cent
said it was a bad idea, 28 per cent said it was a good idea and 6 per cent had
no view. Better-off AB voters are the most supportive of a property tax, with
the poorest DE voters the most strongly opposed.

Fine
Gael voters are considerably more strongly in favour of Government policy on a
property tax than Labour voters. There is a similar pattern on water charges in
terms of class and party support, although the opposition to this development is
not as strong. A total of 60 per cent said water charges are a bad idea, with 35
per cent in support. The best-off are again most supportive of water charges,
with poorer people opposed. Fine Gael supporters give solid backing to water
charges but a clear majority of Labour voters are against. The youngest 18-24
age category are far more opposed to property tax and water charges than older
people, who are more likely to be affected.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1019/1224325459089.html

deise blue

Rubbish , I think not - FF committed to a Property Tax in their programme for Government in 2009 , they included a Property Tax in the National recovery plan 2011-2014 & they signed up to the EU- IMF agreement.

This " stance " by FF is cynical , disingenuous & in the best traditions of this long discredited party extremely populist.

I note Mr. McGrath does not propose any alternative to raising funds other than by a property tax - perhaps his party are awaiting the optimum time to put money on a horse ?

Therei is a truism in politiics - taxes will always be opposed but we are undoubtedly committed to this one.

Potential-Monke

I'm kind of hoping that by living in what most people call Waterford but according to the council is Kilkenny, they'll have forgotten about me. Still nothing in the door for me. But i haven't registered to vote anywhere yet, still go to Limerick if i need to vote.

Am Chile

deise blue wrote: »

Rubbish , I think not - FF committed to a Property Tax in their programme for Government in 2009 , they included a Property Tax in the National recovery plan 2011-2014 & they signed up to the EU- IMF agreement.

This " stance " by FF is cynical , disingenuous & in the best traditions of this long discredited party extremely populist.

I note Mr. McGrath does not propose any alternative to raising funds other than by a property tax - perhaps his party are awaiting the optimum time to put money on a horse ?

Therei is a truism in politiics - taxes will always be opposed but we are undoubtedly committed to this one.

I have no dount Fianna Fail are being Opportunist coming out opposing property taxes recently-I think a lot of people know their motives coming out opposing property taxes at this time-after seeing the huge opposition to the household tax this year sensing even more opposition to a value based property tax plus knowing local elections are less then two years away, have now jumped on the bandwagon opposing next years property tax-Don,t be surprised if Fianna Fail get voted back into power in at the next general election-if it comes down to pledging to abolish property taxes to get back into power-or doing nothing about it and staying in opposition-I think they will very well choose the first option, remember it was Fianna Fail that abolished domestic rates in 1977 for political gain- plus it was Fianna Fail who abolished the residential property tax in 1997 for political gain that year also.

I note Mr. McGrath does not propose any alternative to raising funds other than
by a property tax

From what I gather after listening to FF reps in the media, Fianna Fail are putting forward alternative revenue raising proposals in their pre budget submission.

taxes will always be opposed but we are undoubtedly committed to this one

Whos gonna commit to a property tax in the longer term-lets weigh it up.

FF have come out now in opposing a property tax.
SF have opposed it from day one.
Independents all oppose it,
ULA/socialists etc oppose it.

That leaves (in my eyes) FG and labour in support of it.

I don't foresee labour having much sway in any upcoming elections after shafting the workers and working class they supposedly represent (not to mention Shorthall fiasco)

That leaves FG standing alone in supporting this come the next G.E, and I'd take a very wild guess that any party wishing to be voted into govt in the next elections should have a party manifesto to abolish this tax and any charges attached to it.

deise blue

There are two things that we are agreed on , it seems :

1. A value based Property Tax will be introduced next year
2. Any alternative option will have to raise the same amount annually

I look forward with bated breath to FF's pre budget submission as to how this will be achieved - one thing is certain & that is one way or the other it will be tax payer who will have to shell out , I find it rather strange that Mr. McGrath didn't even drop a hint as to what their alternative plan is ?

Interestingly the latest Irish Times poll shows FG down 1 % point & Labour up 2 % points.

As you say FF have made substantial gains as they are up 4 points but that is at SF's expense who are down 4 points.

It is very easy to raise objections to this tax from the opposition benches but until opposition parties publish viable alternatives then it really is only so much hot air.

Equally it would appear that once things like water rates & property tax become part of the economic landscape then it becomes extremely difficult to remove them.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

Fine Gael were opposed to this in the run up to the election and before but had decided to implement it anyway - not for the craic but for a way to raise much needed funds.

That really does say it all. If they really wanted to "raise much-needed funds" they could have:

* Abolished the Senate (as promised).

* Reduced the number of TDs to an amount proportional to our population.

* Reduced Public Sector pay to affordable levels - regardless of the outbursts.

* Reduced the pay of TDs and Government to realistic levels (Barack Obama earns less than Enda Kenny).

* Tackled Social Welfare Fraud, which is rampant.

* Tackled the ridiculous Social Welfare entitlements which allow people to work here, and get paid the Irish Children's Allowance rate for their family back home - wherever that may be.

* Tackled the ludicrous HSE wastage.

* And - oh yeah - sack James Reilly. Two centres? Really?

The list is truly endless. But will they have the balls to do it. Not a chance. Not while they appease the smoked salmon socialists propping them up.

7upfree

deise blue wrote: »

How is this idiot still a minister ?

Because he backed Kenny in the heave.

Speak Now

Sully wrote: »

The City and County council are using the only database available to them, which is why many people are getting it under names of those no longer with us or maiden names. Didn't say where this database was got from or anything tho.

You'd think they'd cross check with the "who paid database" before sending out letters telling you about the fines and penalties now owed :rolleyes:

CocoAyl

Well a letter came address to my Mum who passed away a few weeks asking her to pay €127 yesterday. I was so infuriated and upset all day as it was the 1st letter to come in her name since, it's a little insensitive that they don't cross check the Death Registers with whatever database they have. I still won't be paying it.

Sully

We seem to have jumped the table in compliance with more than half paying the rate now. Donegal is once again telling the government of the day where to stick it (though this time, the county is divided!) and Dun Laoghaire remaining top of the table with compliance despite a prominent figure from the opposition/anti-household charge movement being resident in the constituency.

Overall, 66% of the Irish people are complying with the charge.

Waterford City: 10,253 of 15,753 (65%)
Waterford County: 16,120 of 24,777 (65%)

Donegal: 34,955 of 65,331 (54%)

Source: http://www.thejournal.ie/household-charge-county-by-county-651345-Oct2012/#comment-693096

All figures are of course going to be speculated with some saying insisting that the real figure of non-compliance is much lower as the body managing the charge/government are using incorrect figures in terms of how many are actually due to pay the charge.

What will be more interesting going forward will be the compliance rate when the full tax is applied. The mind boggles how the government expects and how they thought such a charge would 1) Go down well, and 2) How many will be able to afford such rates.

Hijpo

Sully wrote: »

We seem to have jumped the table in compliance with more than half paying the rate now. Donegal is once again telling the government of the day where to stick it (though this time, the county is divided!) and Dun Laoghaire remaining top of the table with compliance despite a prominent figure from the opposition/anti-household charge movement being resident in the constituency.

Overall, 66% of the Irish people are complying with the charge.

Waterford City: 10,253 of 15,753 (65%)
Waterford County: 16,120 of 24,777 (65%)

Donegal: 34,955 of 65,331 (54%)

Source: http://www.thejournal.ie/household-charge-county-by-county-651345-Oct2012/#comment-693096

All figures are of course going to be speculated with some saying insisting that the real figure of non-compliance is much lower as the body managing the charge/government are using incorrect figures in terms of how many are actually due to pay the charge.

What will be more interesting going forward will be the compliance rate when the full tax is applied. The mind boggles how the government expects and how they thought such a charge would 1) Go down well, and 2) How many will be able to afford such rates.

I cant for the life of me understand why people are complying when they cut public sending then give themselfs an extra week off and an extra 4 million to use up.

everyone sees it for the waste it is unfortunatly not all have the courage to make a stand.

Sully

Hijpo wrote: »

I cant for the life of me understand why people are complying when they cut public sending then give themselfs an extra week off and an extra 4 million to use up.

everyone sees it for the waste it is unfortunatly not all have the courage to make a stand.

As daft as the break is, its not associated with cuts to public spending.

Hijpo

Do they get paid during this break?

Sully

Hijpo wrote: »

Do they get paid during this break?

I assume so. But again, them going on break wouldn't make any difference to public sector cuts. What might would be proper reform on their expenses tho.

Am Chile

Sully wrote: »

We seem to have jumped the table in compliance with more than half paying the rate now. Donegal is once again telling the government of the day where to stick it (though this time, the county is divided!) and Dun Laoghaire remaining top of the table with compliance despite a prominent figure from the opposition/anti-household charge movement being resident in the constituency.

Overall, 66% of the Irish people are complying with the charge.

Waterford City: 10,253 of 15,753 (65%)
Waterford County: 16,120 of 24,777 (65%)

Donegal: 34,955 of 65,331 (54%)

Source: http://www.thejournal.ie/household-charge-county-by-county-651345-Oct2012/#comment-693096

All figures are of course going to be speculated with some saying insisting that the real figure of non-compliance is much lower as the body managing the charge/government are using incorrect figures in terms of how many are actually due to pay the charge.

What will be more interesting going forward will be the compliance rate when the full tax is applied. The mind boggles how the government expects and how they thought such a charge would 1) Go down well, and 2) How many will be able to afford such rates.

If Someone goes by the govt deliberately underestimated figures for liable properties being 1.6m, it would be 67%. If you go by the real figures liable of 1.8million properties ( backed up by Prof Rob Kitchin, ) it is roughly 57 per cent. This is a good figure 10 months on.-the real battle begins when they apply the full property tax rates.

Chart on Future Property Tax

Hijpo

Sully wrote: »

I assume so. But again, them going on break wouldn't make any difference to public sector cuts. What might would be proper reform on their expenses tho.

I was highlighting the issue of "more money for less time spent in the dail"

danjo-xx

I wonder when the property tax comes in will any concession be given to those that didn't pay the HH tax to register for the proper tax. it would be a nice way of cleaning up all the mess caused by the introduction of this tax but of course unfair to those that have pad.

But since when did anyone in government care about fairness.

spankmemunkey

Can i just ask what is the reason behind the social charge?

Like whats its suppose to do for us?

Proerty tax is suppose to cover the costs of running our local council etc but whats the reason behind the social charge?

Hijpo

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Can i just ask what is the reason behind the social charge?

Like whats its suppose to do for us?

Proerty tax is suppose to cover the costs of running our local council etc but whats the reason behind the social charge?

It was meant to replaced the income levy and the health levy. I presume its to provide the service that the income and health levy went towards.

spankmemunkey

Hijpo wrote: »

It was meant to replaced the income levy and the health levy. I presume its to provide the service that the income and health levy went towards.

Which was?

Hijpo

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Which was?

the USC