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Just when i thought the catholic church couldn't get any worse

cowzerp

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/fury-as-woman-outlines-abortion-at-mass-210541.html

This institute should be stamped into the ground, Total morons.

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Einhard

fishy fishy wrote: »

some of the posters on here seem quite young and have no idea what was preached in the churches of Ireland before they were born. Wikipedia seems to be the new "bible", but in reality, as in, when people were here before wikipedia, the reality was quite different. Ask your mammys and daddys about limbo - see what they have to say, if it was preached or not. And the church and state in Ireland was intermingled long after the time of dev etc. Life didn't start with the celtic tiger.

catholic church will be long gone in the next 100 years and people then will be scratching their heads at the stupidity of people believing the lies.

I'm an atheist fishy, and I was merely pointing out that the Catholic Church is very averse to change, which you agreed with in anothe rpost- so not exactly sure how you could claim to differ with my assessment.

Also...the Catholic Church will not have disappeared in 100 years. It may have faded in Ireland and Europe, but it's still a huge presence in South America, Africa, and parts of Asia. Indeed, if I remember correctly, it's the fastest growing religion in South Korea.

tony81

fishy fishy wrote: »

Ask your mammys and daddys about limbo - see what they have to say, if it was preached or not.

I'm sure it was preached by someone.. most likely sisters and brothers in schools.

My primary teacher taught us about Limbo. She also taught us that the Holy Spirit was like the "voice" of God, roman's used vomitorium's so they could get sick and continue eating, pluto is a planet, and if you wake a sleep walker they could have a heart attack.

You're a bit older now, Fishy, please educate yourself and let go of your misconceptions.

Mint Sauce

tony81 wrote: »

It's doubtful she was misusing the altar.. more likely she was speaking at the lectern.

However, I do have a problem myself with lay people being invited to speak. In my opinion, only ordained people should be allowed to speak at mass, while lay people can participate by doing the readings, prayers of the faithful and singing. Personally I don't think the woman should have been invited to speak in the first place.

That's not to say the priest should pussyfoot around issues for fear of offending people. It's his job to get the teachings of the church across to the congregation.

Thank you. That says it alot better than I could have.

Neewbie_noob

A priest has sparked controversy after he arranged for a woman to give a graphic account of her abortion at a children’s Mass and outline how she believed her special needs child was a punishment from God.

Almaviva

And it gets even worse :

http://thestar.ie/star/first-communion-extravagance-is-wrong/

Who does the Archbishop think he is giving guidelines on first holy communions ?
Trying to discourage extravagant days out, outfits and celebrations. Should be minding his own business and providing the churches little part of the first communion family event without telling people how they should run the event and what day it should be on.

Scandalous.

Seaneh

Einhard wrote: »

I'm an atheist fishy, and I was merely pointing out that the Catholic Church is very averse to change, which you agreed with in anothe rpost- so not exactly sure how you could claim to differ with my assessment.

Also...the Catholic Church will not have disappeared in 100 years. It may have faded in Ireland and Europe, but it's still a huge presence in South America, Africa, and parts of Asia. Indeed, if I remember correctly, it's the fastest growing religion in South Korea.

It's spreading pretty quickly in parts of east Asia alright.

Christianity as a whole is spreading faster now than at any other point int he last 2000 years.

Knight who says Meh

Almaviva wrote: »

And it gets even worse :

http://thestar.ie/star/first-communion-extravagance-is-wrong/

Who does the Archbishop think he is giving guidelines on first holy communions ?
Trying to discourage extravagant days out, outfits and celebrations. Should be minding his own business and providing the churches little part of the first communion family event without telling people how they should run the event and what day it should be on.

Scandalous.

Ummmmmm. The answer is in the question..

or was your tongue firmly in your cheek?

[Deleted User]

say_who_now? wrote: »

Certainly I agree with you though bluewolf that what is needed is a reformation of the Catholic Church to shake off the trappings of wealth and corruption,

I really didn't say any of that

Protestantism just isn't for me

I'm not sure why, considering you don't agree with anything in the RCC but have a vaguely christian belief, but ok.

Ghost Buster

Einhard wrote: »

I'm an atheist fishy, and I was merely pointing out that the Catholic Church is very averse to change, which you agreed with in anothe rpost- so not exactly sure how you could claim to differ with my assessment.

Also...the Catholic Church will not have disappeared in 100 years. It may have faded in Ireland and Europe, but it's still a huge presence in South America, Africa, and parts of Asia. Indeed, if I remember correctly, it's the fastest growing religion in South Korea.

Im an atheist as well but perversely often find myself defending The RCC's refusal to change. Why would it need to?
If it is a God inspired religion guided by the magic noodley appendages or what ever of a divine being then surely it was perfect from day one?
God doesnt make mistakes and exists outside of time so TAHDAH HERES YOUR RELIGION FOLKS. TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT:eek:

say_who_now?

Pace2008 wrote: »

say_who_now? wrote: »

Many modern day Roman Catholics no longer take their instruction from the Vatican and have no interest in being preached to from the pulpit, but they use their intelligence to be able to read Church doctrine and interpret it for themselves and extract their own meaning from it, which of course means they're going to pick and choose what suits them.

See this, this doesn't really make any sense at all. I think they should draft up a list of problems they have with Vatican instruction and nail it to the door of their nearest cathedral.

The Vatican would have the swiss guard pìss all over a document like that tbh Pace. The hierarchy thrives on strength in numbers and the propagation of ignorance, feeding piecemeal to impoverished developing nations in exchange for having a corrupt theology shoved down their throats. People will do and say anything when they're desperate. The best example I can think of that highlights this issue was an episode of South Park where there was a nun teaching a religion class in a third world classroom and "starvin' marvin" (a character from the third world) said he was hungry, something like that, and the nun teacher held up the bible and said "you'll learn this first, and then you'll get food", something like that, and that's the way it actually IS with all these religious charity organisations- they're certainly NOT helping the people of these developing nations out of the good of their own hearts, and this was even half the reason why AIDS became so widespread in the third world- ignorance, lack of proper education, and religious instruction that discouraged the use of condoms for protection and family planning.

The Hierarchy has no interest in the objections of the western minority when they can breed new generations of ignorant and blind followers in developing countries with far bigger populations than the western world. In their eyes, they may be losing the battle, but they haven't lost the war, so to speak.

[Deleted User]

You really aren't a catholic at all, are you

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Im an atheist as well but perversely often find myself defending The RCC's refusal to change. Why would it need to?
If it is a God inspired religion guided by the magic noodley appendages or what ever of a divine being then surely it was perfect from day one?
God doesnt make mistakes and exists outside of time so TAHDAHHERES YOUR RELIGION FOLKS. TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT:eek:

What I don't get is people trying to reform it or converting to it and then complaining.
It's not a government. It's not something you have to put up with so you try to improve it in the meantime. It's a club. They run the club their way. If you don't like it, there must be thousands of other clubs whose beliefs DO agree with yours and you can go off and join them. Sitting around complaining about how it's a crap club and doesn't do things the way you like them and therefore should be changed, is just ridiculous.
Bad enough from people brought up with it who might be a bit stuck and blinkered, but people who go out of their way to convert to it and then complain?

oceanclub

According to journalist Joe Leogue on Twitter, the church has hired a PR firm to deal with the situation. Nice they have money for that; wonder will there be a collection?

https://twitter.com/JoeLeogue

The PR firm has released a statement; the church is not accepting questions from anyone and isn't revealing the name of the woman. Presumably she's affiliated with the Irish branch of Rachel Vineyard, an organisation set up in the US by Priests for Life.

P.

BizzyC

Someone preaching pro-life in a church is not a shocker, but them also wrapping in that children with learning disabilities are "punishment from God".....

That just sickens me. I feel sorry for her child, she obviously doesn't like him very much if he represents such a punishment to her.

say_who_now?

bluewolf wrote: »

say_who_now? wrote: »

Certainly I agree with you though bluewolf that what is needed is a reformation of the Catholic Church to shake off the trappings of wealth and corruption,

I really didn't say any of that

My apologies then, I assumed you were referring to the 16th century reformation that formed the protestant church when you mentioned protestantism.

Protestantism just isn't for me

I'm not sure why, considering you don't agree with anything in the RCC but have a vaguely christian belief, but ok.

No, it's not that I don't agree with anything in the RCC, I disagree with the corruption within the hierarchy that has enabled them to preach ignorance and hypocrisy about poverty and so on, while at the same time the Pope probably has his àrse wiped for him by one of his servants with gold leaf toilet paper!

That is just one of the many issues I have with the hierarchy, whom I see as a separate entity from the congregation and the many priests I know who genuinely believe in doing good works within their community, who actually DO believe in practicing the good will they preach, not the fire and brimstone nonsense of some small group of out of touch with modern society numptys who twist the teachings of the catholic church to further their own agenda.

jimmycrackcorm

Kids watching much worse on tv. I mean Sponge Bob ffs

[Deleted User]

say_who_now? wrote: »

My apologies then, I assumed you were referring to the 16th century reformation that formed the protestant church when you mentioned protestantism.

I was, as part of suggesting that you change religion to one that suits you, not you trying to change the religion itself to suit you

Leftist

can't believe some people still go to mass

ejmaztec

fishy fishy wrote: »

seanah, don't be so naive (no offense). Do you honestly believe anything that the "superiors" have to say on the matter. Have we not learned anything about the abuse the church caused and how it went straight to the top superiors covering up and hiding the fact. The catholic church is a business and a very shady one at that. Everythign they do must be questioned.

It's also naive to think that anything they say can't be believed.

Einhard

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Im an atheist as well but perversely often find myself defending The RCC's refusal to change. Why would it need to?
If it is a God inspired religion guided by the magic noodley appendages or what ever of a divine being then surely it was perfect from day one?
God doesnt make mistakes and exists outside of time so TAHDAH HERES YOUR RELIGION FOLKS. TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT:eek:

I'm pretty much the same. Actually, in a perverse kind of way, the conservatism of the Catholic Church is one of the few things I admire about the organisation. Sure, its doctrines are backward and discriminatory, but at least it has the courage of its convictions, and will stand by them. If people don't like those principles, then the choice is pretty simple: leave.

say_who_now?

bluewolf wrote: »

say_who_now? wrote: »

My apologies then, I assumed you were referring to the 16th century reformation that formed the protestant church when you mentioned protestantism.

I was, as part of suggesting that you change religion to one that suits you, not you trying to change the religion itself to suit you

But bluewolf what I'm trying to say is that the Roman Catholic Church DOES suit me, I don't want to change my religion, but I want to change the way, well, to use your own analogy- I want to see a change in the management of the club and the way the club is run. I still like to participate in the clubs activities such as attending mass on Sunday and listening to the gospel and praying in communion with others that share my beliefs, the grassroots of the club if you will, but when people are entrusted with a position of authority within the hierarchy of the club, they can choose to either use their powers to corrupt, or use their power to do good. Unfortunately though, historically speaking, the hierarchy within the catholic church has used their power to further corrupt the teachings of the Catholic Church to solidify their positions of power, wealth and authority, to gain further influence over the ignorant and desperate.

I do not subscribe to the theory that this was the original theological intention of the RCC, to gain followers of the word of God by preying on people who were desperate and didn't know any better. I truly believe the RCC as a whole is something worth believing in, just that management at the club needs a real shake up or ship out. The same would apply to any club you were a member of- if you enjoyed playing hurling for your county, but weren't happy with the way the club was being run, you surely can't be that passionate about playing for your county if you are willing to walk away because the management are running your club into the ground. You seek out other members who share your opinion, call an EGM, and disband with the board of management, thereby the members get to vote in a new one.

Sykk

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

People seem to pick and choose what they like about the catholic church, they want the wedding, communion, christening etc./QUOTE]

The above aren't only for people who practice catholosism.

Red Pepper

Leftist wrote: »

can't believe some people still go to mass

A flock is full of sheep.

Red Pepper

cowzerp wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/fury-as-woman-outlines-abortion-at-mass-210541.html

This institute should be stamped into the ground, Total morons.

Why was this done at a Children's mass?? 100 children had to listen to this?? That is child abuse in another form.
Punishments from God, original sin, hell etc - nobody should be teaching innocent kids this utter nonsense!
Why are Irish Catholics such cowards - walk away from this criminal and abusive organisation, send a message.

bbam

Red Pepper wrote: »

Why was this done at a Children's mass?? 100 children had to listen to this?? That is child abuse in another form.
Punishments from God, original sin, hell etc - nobody should be teaching innocent kids this utter nonsense!
Why are Irish Catholics such cowards - walk away from this criminal and abusive organisation, send a message.

But only a minority of the members are abusive and criminal. The sooner they are dealt with the bettter, but what the church stands for is neither criminal or abusive.

The big problem I see here is that there is a confusion between the faith, it's teachings and those who are charged with preaching it.
Some members of the church have behaved horrifically and with little morality. This however does not change what the church stands for. There is an intentional move here to intimate that the church's intention is the same as that of the very few criminals who have behaved like animals.
Those that say that the intention of the RC Church as a whole is abusive and criminal are intentionally representing the facts incorrectly to suit their own warped ideas. People don't go to mass because of the priest, bishop or pope. People go to mass because of their faith, many including myself don't heed all ye teachings of the church. A La Cart Christians in a way.
So you think we should all abandon our faith because you are disillusioned with the church, and who do you think you are to comment on anyone's faith or knock what it means to them? That type of intolerance is very sad.

dixiefly

cowzerp wrote: »

Has he been sacked? If not then they are tolerant to this behaviour, in any other walk of life this would not be allowed.

So you have never made a mistake at work? If you did would you be asking for yourself to be sacked?

Ghost Buster

dixiefly wrote: »

So you have never made a mistake at work? If you did would you be asking for yourself to be sacked?

Ya wha?? What has this to do with asking or wanting to be sacked?
The priest did something wildly inappropriate and if deemed to be serious enough then perhaps he should be sacked whether he asks or not!

poeticseraphim

Seaneh wrote: »

Seeing as his superiors have condemned both the priest and guest speaker and her language, how is this the churches fault?

They hired /ordained him.

God is punishing them for not respecting a woman's right to choose, she does not people preaching against birth control or homosexuality either.

Those that say that the intention of the RC Church as a whole is abusive and criminal are intentionally representing the facts incorrectly to suit their own warped ideas.

You mean reality? The teachings of the church on abortion contraception sex and homosexuality are deeply wrong and unethical.

I do not subscribe to the theory that this was the original theological intention of the RCC, to gain followers of the word of God by preying on people who were desperate and didn't know any better.

The original RCC were people who did not know any better....it was two thousand years ago. Human rights based on doctrine written in an era when children legally married adults. According to the bible you can own slaves
The man who made this video is an example of a moral hero

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6em7Yy-MjEc

say_who_now?

poeticseraphim wrote: »

I do not subscribe to the theory that this was the original theological intention of the RCC, to gain followers of the word of God by preying on people who were desperate and didn't know any better.

The original RCC were people who did not know any better....it was two thousand years ago. Human rights based on doctrine written in an era when children legally married adults. According to the bible you can own slaves
The man who made this video is an example of a moral hero

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6em7Yy-MjEc

See it's views like yours that I say it's no wonder you hold those views because the RCC hierarchy has made an absolute balls of the running of the Catholic Church. It's quite easy to focus on the negative aspects of the RCC when they're so bloody glaringly obvious! This is not the fault of the Catholic Church as a whole, but rather the views of a crowd of rich old men that live in a bubble called the Vatican, completely shrouded from any reality or any form of questioning.

There are still an odd few die-hard numptys that will never question the hierarchy of the RCC but you'll find them in any profession! You'll also find that the bible is choc-a-block full of contradictions so it is completely open to how an individual interprets it. It's not meant to be taken literally word for word, but it suits your purpose to suggest that all Catholics take "the word of God" at it's most literal meaning, implying that RC's are all "sheeple" with no minds of their own to be able to interpret the teachings of the RCC and apply it to their own moral compass. I don't take the teachings of the RCC literally, I use the bible as a GUIDE, I use the priest's sermons in mass as a GUIDE, calibration for my moral compass, if you will. I adapt the experiences of others as a guide for how I live my life, and some sheltered numpty trying to tell me God says I shouldn't use condoms can go and swing, as far as I'm concerned, because God said no such thing to me, and I believe that the Pope stopped talking to God a long time ago and started making up his own rules as he went along, none of which promote tolerance and understanding of others.

This is why for me, even though I identify as Roman Catholic, I don't and never will listen to some old fart in the Vatican dictate to me how I should live my life. I understand completely where he's coming from, in that his only interest is in the furtherance of the corruption of the Church and a masterclass in àrse-covering. I may not like him, but I tolerate him as a human being in the very same way as I tolerate people who scoff at me for my faith in what they choose to call sky fairies and wizards sleeves or whatever.

I believe that a person's belief in a deity or lack thereof is their own personal entitlement and you'll never see me shoving my religion down anyone's throat, which is why I despise the hierarchy within the catholic church that has used bribery and fear to keep it's followers in check, making the hierarchy an easy target to be called up on their behaviour. I also despite those persons who choose to lump the congregation in with the hierarchy to be able to say the RCC as a whole is an entirely corrupt institution full of child molesters, closet homosexuals, generally deviant individuals and their supporters, and anyone who is still a member of the RCC supports this corruption. That's just lazy, "couldn't be àrsed questioning" sensationalism picked up from a few tabloid sites. The very thing that the RCC is being accused of, not questioning, is a lazy accusation levelled at the RCC by those too lazy to actually ask questions themselves, because the media always puts a better spin on its abhorrence of the RCC.

Next time you pick up a newspaper, and there's an article about a priest abusing his position of authority, just remember that it was the Church hierarchy that enabled him to do this, and not the RCC as a whole. This man could just as easily abused his position of authority were he a doctor, a politician, a teacher, etc. Point being that he was a paedophile before he was ever a priest, and it was just the structure of the hierarchy within the RCC that enabled him to easier indulge his proclivities.