199 different nationalities now in Ireland

MadsL wrote: »

Typical of people from Clare to be anti-middle-class, anti-middle-aged, anti-middle-of-the-road, anti-sacred heart, anti-public sector.

I heard culchies sacrifice babies to Odin, is it true?

Nodin, surely?

not yet wrote: »

Seeing as we have 500,000+ non nationals now in the country can I ask this, how many non nationals would you guys allow into the country.

1 million ? 2 million ? 3 million?

It Amazes me that a small country on the edge of europe can attract 199 different nationalites to live and work here. Do you guys have any problem at all with 10s of thousands of young Irish having to leave whilst the same number come the other way from abroad. How can we justify allowing 1000s of pakistanis into the country on ''student'' visas who then find work within weeks.

I would like to see us implement something along the lines of the Aussies where as we only give visas for jobs that are avialable.

We've been leaving the country for centuries. Its in our blood. We, like our newcomers, are nomads.

I have no problem with the ebb and flow of migration, it's what makes the world go round.

Fuinseog wrote: »

I think I will go Nigeria and claim off the welfare system.

Hopefully, you'll have more luck with one of the many languages/dialects spoken there than English.

old hippy wrote: »

Clearly, you're looking with a myopic eye, then.

And the "boys (and girls) up north" have integrated, to a degree. I wouldn't exist if they hadn't.

Ireland has always been Irish but the people change, new blood, new culture, new experiences.

Personally, I'd deport all the racists, xenephobes and monoculturalists - then we'd really be realising our potential.

81% of British Muslims consider themselves Muslims before British, thats pretty bad!

Ghost Buster

jugger0 wrote: »

Is it racist to want to keep Ireland Irish? And indeed Europe European?

So what exactly is Irish?
The British strain (which is an utter melange of genetics), The Cambro Norman strain, The Viking strain or the first settlers from central Europe including Spanish on the West Coast.
Or do you include the dribble of Roman blood (another melange of genetcis from all over) that occasionally wandered in during Roman occupied Britain, the odd bit of more recent French and Spanish through out coastal areas from sunken fleets?
Logic would dictate that you are harking back to the first settlers which were European and guess what, trace them back and they are all African.
I think what Im saying in a long winded manner is that your post is utter xenophobic twaddle.

Quirk_Douglas wrote: »

Just curious, does this mean that a white person can be Japanese?

Yes. I'll be taking Japanese citizenship when I retire there, as I'm already married to a Japanese, I'm halfway there

jugger0 wrote: »

81% of British Muslims consider themselves Muslims before British, thats pretty bad!

And why is that "bad"?

hooradiation

jugger0 wrote: »

Is it racist to want to keep Ireland Irish? And indeed Europe European?

Good luck providing a workable definition for either of those.
Especially one that doesn't boil down to "people wot don't look all foreign"

not yet

old hippy wrote: »

We've been leaving the country for centuries. Its in our blood. We, like our newcomers, are nomads.

I have no problem with the ebb and flow of migration, it's what makes the world go round.

Whist I tend to partly aggree with you I still think such a small country should at least limit the numbers rather then simply ignoring them.

Clareboy

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Well going by how crazily wide of the mark your assertions in the thread thus far have been I'm going to go ahead and assume that anyone in support of the immigrants (what does that even mean?) are atypical working-class, young, edge of the road, redneck right wingers.

Given that you had some mad fantasy earlier about Ireland building the biggest power station in the world and every village in Ireland having a health clinic I'd say that's about right.

For your information, when the Ardnacrusha Power Station was opened in 1929, it was the largest hydro-electric power station in the world at that time. As regards, health clinics, during the 1950s dispenseries were built in every village in Clare.

Ghost Buster wrote: »

So what exactly is Irish?
The British strain (which is an utter melange of genetics), The Cambro Norman strain, The Viking strain or the first settlers from central Europe including Spanish on the West Coast.
Or do you include the dribble of Roman blood that occasionally wandered in during Roman occupied Britain, the odd bit of more recent French and Spanish through out coastal areas from sunken fleets?
Logic would dictate that you are harking back to the first settlers which were European and guess what, trace them back and they are all African.
I think what Im saying in a long winded manner is that your post is utter xenophobic twaddle.

I know that, already said that Irish are a mix of Europeans. Cool story tho

old hippy wrote: »

And why is that "bad"?

Extremism is going to take hold a lot quicker in a population that identifies more with its religion then its nationality.

jugger0 wrote: »

Extremism is going to take hold a lot quicker in a population that identifies more with its religion then its nationality.

Like the white, god fearing militias we see in the US? Or our brothers and sisters in the 6 counties? So frickin what - everywhere has extremists.

There's also a bunch of people here who put their nationality first; they're called the BNP. You should check them out, might have a bit in common with them.

Why are you so terrified of people of a different colour to yours?

old hippy wrote: »

Why are you so terrified of people of a different colour to yours?

Have you seen where they come from? the middle east and Africa are absolute ****holes, i dont want minority ghettos here,i dont want ridiculous minority crime-rates, we have enough scumbags of our own without importing al qaeda and the rest of those eejits with their religious bull****. I dont want my country changed into some multicultural ****hole.

jugger0 wrote: »

Have you seen where they come from? the middle east and Africa are absolute ****holes, i dont want minority ghettos here,i dont want ridiculous minority crime-rates, we have enough scumbags of our own without importing al qaeda and the rest of those eejits with their religious bull****. I dont want my country changed into some multicultural ****hole.

You've been all over the Middle East and Africa, have you?

We already have ghettoes here, thanks to decades of Governmental bungling and indifference.

As for crime rates? Why is it the below average Joe on such topics always equates immigrants with crime?

I tell you this, friend; your Ireland and my Ireland are very different places. I certainly wouldn't want you in it.

There's a whiff of KKK off you, boy. Not at all appetising.

purplepanda

pmurphy00 wrote: »

something tells me we considered scotland and wales
countries. despite them not being on the list of countries

Both meet most common definitions of Nation & Countries. As does England.

Ghost Buster

jugger0 wrote: »

I know that, already said that Irish are a mix of Europeans. Cool story tho

It wasnt a story....
But anyway so if you already acknowledge that the Irish are a mix of European genetics and European genetics trace back to Africa how exactly do you think we can keep Ireland Irish and Europe European?
What does that mean on a basic level?

Ghost Buster

jugger0 wrote: »

Have you seen where they come from? the middle east and Africa are absolute ****holes, i dont want minority ghettos here,i dont want ridiculous minority crime-rates, we have enough scumbags of our own without importing al qaeda and the rest of those eejits with their religious bull****. I dont want my country changed into some multicultural ****hole.

Africa is a continent, a very large continent with a lot of countries...its not a country........
Many of those countries are quite nice actually...

Clareboy

KINGVictor wrote: »

Nonsense!

I think most people that are intolerant of other nationalities are either bigots who fundamentally dislike people who dont share their heritage or do not look like them or are frustrated people who have failed in life and are taking their frustrations out on others.

As long as these immigrants are living legally in the country, then they have every right to have equal access to the opportunities and public service in the country. You cannot expect to eat your cake and have it, if thousands of Irish people are emmigrating, you cannot expect that some folks might not want to start their lives here. However unpleasant the presence of these strangers might be to you, you have to start dealing with it. Hardly a family in Ireland that do not have relatives living in the UK, Australia, Canada,US etc etc and that started way back so do not try to blame immigrants as if its a new phenomenon.

As for competing for schools, hospital bed spaces etc... Well where have you been in the last 5 years? Mainly due to the economic crises and government cuts. That same hospital you are talking about consists of many immigrant doctors, nurses and health workers which I suspect might come as a shock to you. Ireland is doing well with regards to exports mainly down to FDI and most of them have to employ foreign workers for various functions and you will be so surprised that a lot of those workers are folks you have a problem with, which is quite bewildering considering that that their taxes pay for the welfare benefits of the unemployed, a payment which the Irish are the major beneficiaries.

It is so easy and convenient to come on a faceless medium and attack immigrants but far more difficult to examine the real facts. If you had made an arguement against illegal immigration, then perharps that would make sense but for you to infer that immigrants are the cause of the Irish emmigrating and having less school spaces and hospital beds, then it is not only nonsensical but delusional.

First of all, I am widely traveled and have lots of friends who are not Irish. I have no problem with foreign cultures. As regards my own situation, I am at the end of my working life and not in the least frustrated. I do really pity the children of today as they will be growing in a completely different Ireland than the one I grew up in.

Surely you are not comparing a tiny country like Ireland to countries like the UK, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. With the exception of the UK, almost all Irish emigration has been to New World counties with vast uninhabited open spaces and unlimited natural resources and mineral weath.

At present, our schools, hospitals and prisons are bursting at the seems. We are just a tiny country with few natural resources and indigenous industries. As a nation, we would want to make sure that the very limited recources of our tiny country are used for the benefit of our own people.

So our hospitals are full of foreign doctors and nurses, while at the same time Irish doctors and nurses have to emigrate to find work. That makes a lot of sense!

But then, we should be se grateful to the foreign workers for paying the taxes that go to pay the dole to the unemployed Irish workers. That too makes a lot of sense!

Sappa

old hippy wrote: »

Quirk_Douglas wrote: »

Just curious, does this mean that a white person can be Japanese?

Yes. I'll be taking Japanese citizenship when I retire there, as I'm already married to a Japanese, I'm halfway there

Good luck with that,seriously the Japanese do not like foreigners integrating and would rather you did not speak any Japanese.
They are very much about there own culture and preserving it's identity.
You should know this being married to a Japanese lady or may e you haven't spent too much time there.
I worked in Japan and spoke with expats living there 20+ years who said they are still treated as just a foreigner and society will never take to you 100 % even if you speak perfect Japanese.
Look at the cases in Japan where American service men knock up a local lady that kid is shunned by Japanese people as being not one of them even though the mother is a native.
I would do some research on this first old hippy Japan is not as it seems.

purplepanda

Do those posters who welcome, historically high levels of immigration to Ireland have any opinions on when exactly the numbers should be limited at any future date? If at all?

If you actually would like to see the annual numbers increasing to higher levels could you please state your reasons.

If you have a personal reason to welcome more immigration at the present levels, for example to increase the profit margin of your business by paying your workers less please declare your interest.

If you want unrestricted future immigration & personally believe in the freedom of all people to move anywhere they choose without restrictions please state if that is your personal belief. I do actually know some people who have this view so I won't be too surprised to hear it!

I would appreciate a civil response to my queries above, don't bother if you want to call me a Nazi just because I have major reservations about the issue.

jugger0 wrote: »

81% of British Muslims consider themselves Muslims before British, thats pretty bad!

One's a religious identity and one's a national identity. They can be both simultaneously.
I mean, being Muslim isn't a national identity or an ethnic one it's a religious one and last time I checked, being British isn't a religion, it's just a citizenship / national identity and Britain is extremely multi-cultural, so those two things shouldn't really clash.

So, to be perfectly honest, it's a pretty dumb question to ask someone.

Sappa

I would actually like to know posters opinions on an Irish born citizen moving back to Ireland with there non EU wife and do they regard this as too much immigration.

http://markhumphrys.com/islam.uk.html#polls

Sappa wrote: »

I would actually like to know posters opinions on an Irish born citizen moving back to Ireland with there non EU wife and do they regard this as too much immigration.

I'd regard that as a basic human right. Otherwise, you're basically saying that if an Irish person marries a non-EU partner, they can't move back and their kids and wife/husband are denied Irish citizenship and residency rights.

It would just break up Irish families to deny them that right.

purplepanda

Solair wrote: »

One's a religious identity and one's a national identity. They can be both simultaneously.

So, to be perfectly honest, it's a pretty dumb question to ask someone.

Many British Muslims want a Caliphate to replace the UK nation state, opinion polls suggest around 40%, similar numbers want Sharia Law. :mad:

Some Muslims in Britain such as the Turkish / Kurdish community are more inclined towards western democratic values compared to those from other regions of the world.

Link citing Channel 4 opinion polls, very disturbing reading, that so many believe in the eventual overthrow of modern British society

hooradiation

purplepanda wrote: »

Link citing Channel 4 opinion polls, very disturbing reading, that so many believe in the eventual overthrow of modern British society

Overthrow is a bit dramatic, isn't it?

Besides, I'm not sure what people find so goddamn surprising about this. People tend to want to see their values reflected in the society in which they live. It's neither "disturbing" nor unusual.

Of course wanting or preferring something and actually having something are two very different things.
And that in order to have any of the things that worry you so, you'd have to actually convince a majority of the entire public that it's also a good idea.
At which point, all that's really happened is that a society has changed it outlook gradually over a period of time and adjusted accordingly.
Like it has countless times since time immemorial.

Of course when you break it down like that, it's not so scary (it's also trying to predict the future so, good luck with that) but it does get in the way of people doing their best Paul Revere impression, screaming to anyone that'll listen that "the Muslims are coming, the Muslims are coming!"

diddley

Solair wrote: »

One's a religious identity and one's a national identity. They can be both simultaneously.
I mean, being Muslim isn't a national identity or an ethnic one it's a religious one and last time I checked, being British isn't a religion, it's just a citizenship / national identity and Britain is extremely multi-cultural, so those two things shouldn't really clash.

So, to be perfectly honest, it's a pretty dumb question to ask someone.

Really? You can't think of any way in which religious identity and national identity can clash given the diverse populations in the world? I don't think you've thought about that too much. Here's just one example, Swedish woman is CEO of company, meets Muslim job applicant who refuses to shake her hand: http://www.stockholmnews.com/more.aspx?NID=4787

Gurgle

This:

purplepanda wrote: »

If you want unrestricted future immigration & personally believe in the freedom of all people to move anywhere they choose without restrictions please state if that is your personal belief.

not just here but everywhere.

People are people.

If just one first world country were to implement this it would be a recipe for chaos.

But if every country were to recognize every human being as having equal rights regardless of their race, creed, religion and place of birth then we'd be living in a much better world.

How long could an oppressive government last if everybody had the option of crossing a border to live under a better government?

Yeah, I'd agree that some of that stuff is very disturbing and needs to be tackled.

However, I don't think you're going to tackle islamic extremism through looking at immigration issues and national identity to be perfectly honest.

That's not the root of the problem. It's about radicalisation of teens / younger muslims because of the international conflicts that are going on and because of ghettoization in places like the UK and France in particular.

I think we need to do a hell of a lot more to communicate the basic fundamentals of liberal, western democracy that we fought very hard to create and defend over the centuries.

There's insufficient 'marketing' (for want of a better word) of why the values of things like democracy, free speech, liberty, etc are important.

I also think there has been too much politically correct nonsense around challenging things that various religious fundemtantalists preach that are completely contrary to the ideas of human rights, equality, democracy, freedom of speech etc. Just because something's a religious belief does not mean that it should have the same status in a debate as the rule of law or fundamental rights.

I don't really care if they're radical islamic nut cases or radical christian nut cases from the US deep south or elsewhere, we should not be allowing education systems (e.g. teaching about evolution) or legal systems, fundamental rights e.g. women's rights, gay rights or anything else enshrined in law should be undermined because societies are bending over backwards to 'respect' religious views.

The image of the US and UK has also been quite badly tarnished by the conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan etc etc.

All that stuff is stirring up a negative attitude towards 'the West' and that absolutely needs to be tackled by proper communication of what 'the west' really stands for.

However, I also think an element of this is down to the fact that certain western states have undermined their own ability to be a positive role model in the world by doing things like extraordinary rendition etc etc. That is fundamentally contrary to the notion of rule of law / democracy and natural justice. We need to actually stand up against stuff like that.

If we are going to be liberal democracies that stand for human rights, and all those things, we need to practice what we preach and not just change the rules when it suits some short term military objective or some ultra "pc" notion that all religious views are somehow superior to the law of the land or fundamental rights. We need to actually stand up for what liberal democracy and freedom is all about.