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Free food and Coffee for the Gardai in some establishments.

MidlandsM

...and yes, it's the establishments choice to award food and/or drinks to a member of the Gardai but my question is, should a member of the Gardai accept such like?

I was in a very busy Topaz filling station where I always see lots of member of the force having their "break" the other day. There was a long Queue waiting to pay for stuff at the tills, which I was in. I know the girl at one of the tills and I noted a discreet exchange between her and a Garda who just got a coffee and some sort of snack.....she said "you're grand,no charge" ....and he just said "thanks" .......lots of people noted the Freebie, and lots of eye's rolled to heaven....

Personally I think he should insist on paying for it.....it look like a "Stroke" Freebie to me......

what do you think?

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girl in the striped socks

SuperInfinity wrote: »

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

You do realise that guards pay taxes too?

I have found over the years that anyone who comes up with the argument of the taxpayer pays guards wages is, more often than not, very ignorant & just loves to jump on that bandwagon.

lol, my god seriously? You really just wrote that?

:pac:

I think the gardai make a net profit from the money they're given.

Lol, my god, totally serious!

Honestly at this stage I have enough of this thread. It's just going around in circles really whether you agree with free coffee or not.

Garda bash away even though it has been mentioned that ambulance staff, firemen, army etc avail of the same free coffee but go unscathed in this argument.

T-K-O

The gaurds have accounts with petrol stations is their lunch covered?

conor1979

mathepac wrote: »

A minimum-pay food server in a restaurant or hotel has her tax allowances cut because the Revenue "know" she gets tips. How come they don't "know" about the stuff Guards get for free and tax them on it? Is it because they are "brother" public servants and of course one hand washes the other in PS jobs.

Eh, what now?

Aren't you supposed to use some sort of smiley face when you are being sarcastic?

Boombastic

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Thanks for answering my question. Have you any proof that every member of the force is partaking in a bribe culture, that doesn't include a cup of tea? Actually, can you prove that shops which provide hot beaverages to the AGS experience quicker response times in instances of emergency?

The system is not open to abuse, there is an independent body to investigate the gardai, and I haven't heard of any investigation involving the issue of tea and coffee and a guard.

It's a complete non-issue.

I have asked you plenty of question, which you choose to selectively ignore. Can you prove they are not? Here's some evidence some more Have a read here If the gardai can't follow their own code of ethics, I'm not sure what hope there is - a corrupt country will always be a corrupt country. And you should not forget to mention the tax free allowances that gardai get as part of their "core pay" - rent allowance etc. when rambling about garda paying taxes

Japer wrote: »

the Gardai taking bribes - be it the free drink from the publican or whoever - is the thin end of the wedge. Higher up on the corruption scale are the developers/politicians/planners etc

still a bit of the wedge

Pride Fighter

When I worked in a shop we did not give it out for free. We charged 50 cent for Garda, Bus Drivers and unknown to the shop owner to cold homeless people.

Local-womanizer

Boombastic wrote: »

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Thanks for answering my question. Have you any proof that every member of the force is partaking in a bribe culture, that doesn't include a cup of tea? Actually, can you prove that shops which provide hot beaverages to the AGS experience quicker response times in instances of emergency?

The system is not open to abuse, there is an independent body to investigate the gardai, and I haven't heard of any investigation involving the issue of tea and coffee and a guard.

It's a complete non-issue.

I have asked you plenty of question, which you choose to selectively ignore. Can you prove they are not? If the gardai can't follow their own code of ethics, I'm not sure what hope there is - a corrupt country will always be a corrupt country. And you should not forget to mention the tax free allowances that gardai get as part of their "core pay" - rent allowance etc. when rambling about garda paying taxes

Japer wrote: »

the Gardai taking bribes - be it the free drink from the publican or whoever - is the thin end of the wedge. Higher up on the corruption scale are the developers/politicians/planners etc

still a bit of the wedge

The onus is not on anyone to prove they are, if they are accused there are proper procedures to follow, you cant just say they are doong it then go, "well prove me wrong". In all my years dealing with gardai in pubs, shops and resteraunts they have nece actively seeked freebies. If they were offered a small token gesture of good will, ie a cup of tea they availed of it, as did many a paramedic, fireman or soldier. They didn't walk out if the shop and think "Jesus,a cup if tea, next time I am going to clean the place out!"

I know they get uniform allowance, I'm not sure about a rent allowance. I know soldiers personally who need rent assistance, if you need it why does it matter what line of work you are in?

Anyway, again you go off point, have you ever seen a guard take a bribe? Have you ever seen a guard not follow their own code of ethics, bar the few high profile cases?

Edit: just seen your links, again a handful of cases, in a force that is what, 10,000 strong? Happens in every country, and I'm sure it was t triggered by a cup of tea.

Assassin saphir

yore wrote: »

Assassin saphir wrote: »

Youve obviously not worked nights in an open store!
I do realise its their job but its a thankless job alot of the time.
Ive dealt with drunks and all kinds of scum in my job. Ive been punched, bitten and threatened. So what if i give a guard a coffee or something to eat. It came out of my own pocket not yours or the companies. I had alot of the guards mobile numbers and they got me out of alot of sticky situations. I dont see how this is troublesome....?

Ah sure you're right. And so what if a developer gives a Councillor a couple of grand here or there to keep him sweet. sure it comes out of his own pocket.

And I call bullsh1t on a coffee coming out of your own pocket. Was anything that wasn't paid for or shoplifted come out of your pocket too? Do a full stocktake at the end of every shift did you?

Its a cup of coffee not a brown envelope.

I paid for everything. Im really going to risk losing my job by not paying for it.

The shoplifting comment is just dim!

Paulzx

Boombastic wrote: »

. And you should not forget to mention the tax free allowances that gardai get as part of their "core pay" - rent allowance etc. when rambling about garda paying taxes

They are not bloody tax free!!!! You're the one rambling.

At least if you are going to introduce something into your arguement make sure its correct.

Boombastic

Local-womanizer wrote: »

The onus is not on anyone to prove they are, if they are accused there are proper procedures to follow, you cant just say they are doong it then go, "well prove me wrong". In all my years dealing with gardai in pubs, shops and resteraunts they have nece actively seeked freebies. If they were offered a small token gesture of good will, ie a cup of tea they availed of it, as did many a paramedic, fireman or soldier. They didn't walk out if the shop and think "Jesus,a cup if tea, next time I am going to clean the place out!"

I know they get uniform allowance, I'm not sure about a rent allowance. I know soldiers personally who need rent assistance, if you need it why does it matter what line of work you are in?

Anyway, again you go off point, have you ever seen a guard take a bribe? Have you ever seen a guard not follow their own code of ethics, bar the few high profile cases?

Edit: just seen your links, again a handful of cases, in a force that is what, 10,000 strong? Happens in every country, and I'm sure it was t triggered by a cup of tea.

I gave you examples of corrupt gardai turning a blind eye - it happens. Why leave the system open to abuse. The gardai, teachers and others who receive gifts should either declare them or refuse them. The gardai being in a position of power, where part of their job is to investigate corruption and bribery should have a blanket ban on accepting gifts, no matter how big or small

rent allowance is paid to all gardai, tax free - regardless of if they need it or are even renting

Odysseus

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

You do realise that guards pay taxes too?

I have found over the years that anyone who comes up with the argument of the taxpayer pays guards wages is, more often than not, very ignorant & just loves to jump on that bandwagon.

Leaving AGS aside for a minute. The is nothing worse than listening to some idiot rattle on about their taxes paying my wages. Like they are entitled to get a better service, or they are entitled to dicate how much I am paid or how I work.

Paulzx

Boombastic wrote: »

I gave you examples of corrupt gardai turning a blind eye - it happens. Why leave the system open to abuse. The gardai, teachers and others who receive gifts should either declare them or refuse them. The gardai being in a position of power, where part of their job is to investigate corruption and bribery should have a blanket ban on accepting gifts, no matter how big or small

rent allowance is paid to all gardai, tax free - regardless of if they need it or are even renting

You've said it again!!!!!!!!!!! Its bloody taxable

girl in the striped socks

Odysseus wrote: »

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

You do realise that guards pay taxes too?

I have found over the years that anyone who comes up with the argument of the taxpayer pays guards wages is, more often than not, very ignorant & just loves to jump on that bandwagon.

Leaving AGS aside for a minute. The is nothing worse than listening to some idiot rattle on about their taxes paying my wages. Like they are entitled to get a better service, or they are entitled to dicate how much I am paid or how I work.

Did you not know its their right as the person who pays your wages?

Ellis Dee

Corruption can start with small things and then often grows.:)

For the public to have trust in the police, they must not only be non-corrupt, but also seen to be so. Besides, special treatment in cafes and restaurants only reinforces their sense of entitlement and superiority over others.:cool:

It's OK for companies to offer discounts to all members of certain occupational groups, such as the police, but for them to be treated differently in public places is annoying to those - whose work may also be demanding, valuable and less well-paid than that of the Gardai - who pay the normal price.

Offering enticements to Gardai to frequent one's establishment may be a good idea, but the police are supposed to protect everyone on a basis of equality and something is wrong if companies pay to maybe get themselves in a special position at the expense of others.:cool:

Local-womanizer

Boombastic, can you provide a link to the rent allowance thing, just interested to read about it.

As I said, a few cases involving corrupt gardai is not a fair reflection on the majority if the force. Happens in every walk of life. I don't see cups of tea being a bribe but rather a gesture of goodwill.

If such things help build a healthy relationship with local business and populace then great, it will have a knock-out effect on effective policing in the local area.

I have never experienced favourable treatment from AGS despite the regular dealings I have with them on a weekly basis.

Japer

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Corruption can start with small things and then often grows.:)

For the public to have trust in the police, they must not only be non-corrupt, but also seen to be so. Besides, special treatment in cafes and restaurants only reinforces their sense of entitlement and superiority over others.:cool:

Whats the difference between a publican giving a free round of drinks to the local Gardai, ( and not getting his premises raided or his customers harassed for being over the limit ) and a developer giving a planner or politician a brown envelope ( or a free weeks holidays in the auld apartment in Portugal or the golf weekend away - we know it all went on / was expected ).
Thats why the country is banjaxed.

meathstevie

Did you know that one of the biggest fast food chains in the world gives free coffee to ambulance, fire service and police personel when buying a meal and that it's company policy and staff are told not to charge for it and even to offer it ? Any favours expected ? No

MagicSean

Boombastic wrote: »

"3. Integrity
Payments, Gifts, Entertainment

If the business is giving the garda freebies under the impression of faster respose times to crimes in their premises, it is unethical for the garda to accept it. If it is seen as a kickback (which it is) it is also unethical to accept it

and from the ombudsman

GARDA SÍOCHÁNA OMBUDSMAN COMMISSION
CODE OF ETHICS

I

So you've given up on your ridiculous theory that it is done to get the fuel tender and now you have an equally ridiculous theory that it is done to obtain faster response times.

I've explained to you exactly why it is done. It's simple marketing. You have a satation full of hungry Gardaí. If the guy who drives the car goes to a garage for his coffee the probability is high he will purchase other stuff for himself and the others back at the station. It has also been explained to you that some shops see it in their own interest to have Gardaí coming there throughout the night as it makes them feel safer.

Sorcha16

MagicSean wrote: »

I've explained to you exactly why it is done. It's simple marketing. It has also been explained to you that some shops see it in their own interest to have Gardaí coming there throughout the night as it makes them feel safer.

I think the point is though that the Gardaí should make people feel safe without giving them free anything. It's their job and they get paid to make people feel safe. There should be no coercion required

Odysseus

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

Did you not know its their right as the person who pays your wages?

I know I am going to start tipping my cap to all the kind taxpayers who keep a roof over my head, food in my stomach and shoes on my feet.

Paulzx

Sorcha16 wrote: »

I think the point is though that the Gardaí should make people feel safe without giving them free anything. It's their job and they get paid to make people feel safe. There should be no coercion required

Howya Mr. Topaz. I'm your local Garda. Give me a free coffee or I won't make ya feel safe.

tomdublin

Boombastic wrote: »

I hope they are declaring their extra benefits on their tax forms

The problem is that police should be impartial towards everyone in all circumstances, but if they accept favours from particular establishments they might be be tempted to return them.

Sorcha16

Paulzx wrote: »

Howya Mr. Topaz. I'm your local Garda. Give me a free coffee or I won't make ya feel safe.

I'm glad you realise how ridiculous this is because that does seem to be the basic premise behind giving guards freebies -to feel more safe. Businesses are hardly doing it for nothing

It wasn't me!

1. It's nice to be nice, and same as I always give a smile and a nod to them when I see them out and about, or wish them well on cold or wet nights, a free coffee is just a nice way to say you appreciate what they're doing. This is not an uncommon policy towards the whole of the emergency services, as already stated. I know I'd certainly appreciate it halfway through a night shift in December.

2. It's good for a vulnerable business like a petrol station or late night fast food place to do something that ensures there's a decent likelihood of the Gardai being around the place regularly, as it deters shítehawks who otherwise would rob the place or give trouble. It's not about ensuring a faster response time. The simple fact is that, like having a couple of enormous dogs made entirely of teeth around the place, it ensures that trouble is less likely to arise in the first place.

3. Topaz apparently have the Garda fuel tender. You can be reasonably certain that free coffee was not what made that deal so much more attractive than all the others. /glaring sarcasm, for those that missed it.

4. It's not going to get people who give the odd free cup of coffee or whatever better service from the Gardai. It's really not. If you call them, there's not going to be a discussion on the lines of "Him? Miserable prick. He can wait." They'll probably still be calling you a miserable prick, but they'll be on their way anyway while they do it. The material incentive to do so is in point 2 above. Along with point 1, it ensures that any odd free gift is in the spirit of community relations and that everyone wins. It's not coming out of the public purse, and it doesn't impact on how the Gardai do their job (bar actually creating a stronger presence in those places it's most likely to be needed, funnily enough), so any argument against it is pretty hard to take seriously.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

awec

Sorcha16 wrote: »

I think the point is though that the Gardaí should make people feel safe without giving them free anything. It's their job and they get paid to make people feel safe. There should be no coercion required

How do you know it's coercion?

Do you really think if that station called the Gardaí for a problem that they'd turn round and say "no, you didn't give us our free coffee?"

Seriously?

For what it's worth, I think the issue people have here is not that someone is getting something for free but rather that it's a Garda. If this was a paramedic would there be the same insinuations being thrown about?

Zebra3

Where To wrote: »

Says someone whose sig implies they don't pay their taxes.

The people of Ireland should not be paying extra taxes to cover private gambling losses. nothing to do with this thread anyway.

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

You do realise that guards pay taxes too?

I have found over the years that anyone who comes up with the argument of the taxpayer pays guards wages is, more often than not, very ignorant & just loves to jump on that bandwagon.

The only ignorant person is you. nobody was talking about who pays guards wages. :rolleyes:

elviscostello wrote: »

I didn't see where the constant stream of freebies were mentioned?

What's your point about the taxpayer? It doesn't make any difference. Money is allocated for that purpose and Topaz want that money. They are doing clever business.

As it happens I don't see the problem with any other business helping out the emergency services with a feckin cup of tea. We expect a lot more than a cup of tea from them.

The constant stream of freebies, are the ones that guards keep taking to ensure their presence a certain businesses over others.

Nobdy is disputing Topaz are being clever, but what the guards are doing is unetchical, but I suppose in this country were morons vote for FF/FG in their droves and love their stroke politics, that's ok...

Boombastic

Paulzx wrote: »

You've said it again!!!!!!!!!!! Its bloody taxable

Ok my mistake. Can you clarify how gifts and benefits in kind are taxed?

MagicSean wrote: »

.............. It has also been explained to you that some shops see it in their own interest to have Gardaí coming there throughout the night as it makes them feel safer.

You need to reread the code of ethics you subscribed to

hellomynameis

I used to work in a chipper and we were told not to charge garda, they used to order bags full of stuff knowing they wouldnt be charged. A friend of mine worked in a restaurant in the same town and they called there for food aswell and didnt get charged either, they told us numerous times that the food was for prisoners. So its not only for them and their thankless job. We were never told to not charge taxi drivers, paramedics or firefighters.

Japer

So if its ok for petrol stations / pubs to give "free" drinks to Gardai, is it ok for developers to give politicians / planners "free" gifts too?

Japer

hellomynameis wrote: »

We were never told to not charge taxi drivers, paramedics or firefighters.

let everone else - the little people - pay for the perks of the big boys.