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Child Item

Abortion

tomtherobot

Now, normally i stay away from abortion debates because i find they're full of extremist types but this morning, i found the country's favorite moral crusader aka Ray D'arcy, preaching on about the rights of women who've had abortions. This led me to the conclusion that there's a general consensus these days that abortion is now acceptable to the majority (ok not just this alone), but if this is the case, i think it raises two issues going forward (as they say)

Firstly, maintenance payments for children? How can a society, or individual, who supports a woman's exclusive right to chose to have an abortion at the same time come to fathers with the paw out looking for money to support children. If a father has no choice whether the child is alive or not how can he be demanded to support that child? Makes no sense whatsoever to me.

Secondly, the Ray D'arcy show this morning was talking about counseling for women after abortion. Seemingly the HSE already pays for this. I can't understand how state support for counseling for women who've had abortions is justified. On one side of the debate, pro abortionists say it's a procedure to remove a physical growth which isn't alive. If that's the case why the need for counseling? On the other side, anti-abortionists say it's murder, so why would the state be counseling murderers? Did I miss something, do we not still have old folk being left to rot on trolleys, surely the HSE has greater priorities now than counseling women who've chose to have an abortion.

As you may have guessed, i'm anti-abortion. I'm not religious I just believe that an unborn child is alive. Why else would people mourn the loss of unborn or stillborn children? Or require counseling after 'terminating' one? Given that i believe that an unborn child is alive I think killing one is wrong and cannot be justified above the social or material needs of the parent(s). No more or less than i think it would be ok to kill your elderly parents just because they don't suit where you are in you're life right now.....

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efb

Sure I'm sure the councilling I'd cheaper than children's allowance

Sponge25

up for anything wrote: »

How do you know that they weren't?

Stop jumping to conclusions. :rolleyes:

It doesn't matter, they still had sex. If you can't take responsibility for that, you're not mature enough to have sex!

If it were up to me and i'm and understanding man, it would be a punishable offense! (In all countries)

[Deleted User]

Sponge25 wrote: »

I strongly feel that if you don't want a baby don't get pregnant!

Life isn't something you mess with, you don't put yourself in a circumstance that MAY create life if you don't want that. Under any circumstances.

Abortion for rape victims is OK IMO

I have no respect for people who have or support abortion and so called "womans rights"

PS. If the male doesn't want his child aborted, does he have any rights?

why is abortion for rape victims ok????
you seem to believe that once a 'life' is created than it should live? is that you belief??
so why should an unborn child of a rape victim be aborted??
i dint understand your logic?

gosuckonalemon

I wish people would stop using the phrase "unborn child". A child refers to a human being, a foetus may be a living thing in the cellular sense of the word, but it is not a child.

In another decade or so abortion, thankfully, will be legal in Ireland. In the same way the Catholic Church will be a shadow of it's former self.

We just need for the older, less informed/enlightened generations to pass on.

At least the HSE provide a service for post abortion counselling for women who go to the UK to get it done.

It's mad to think that 200,000 Irish women have had abortions in the UK to date.

oranbhoy67

Madam_X wrote: »

Contraception isn't 100% effective - and who "boasts" about going on such a trip?

its as close as it can be if both are using it

who boasts?? the fella whos post i was referring to who talked about it the way youd talk about planning a week in Ibiza not Terminating the life of there unborn child.

Madam_X

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

because if they weren`t then there would be no pregnancy , therefore no boasting of booking the trip to "en ger land "

Contraception isn't 100% effective - and who "boasts" about going on such a trip?

oranbhoy67

up for anything wrote: »

How do you know that they weren't?

Stop jumping to conclusions. :rolleyes:

because if they weren`t then there would be no pregnancy , therefore no boasting of booking the trip to "en ger land "

partyatmygaff

Fromthetrees wrote: »

Didn't read all the thread,
but,
I agreed fully with the OP,
right up until after the mother of my child missed a ('thing') about 5 months after our first and ONLY child was born. That's it. Had the trip to engerland planned before I even said 'ahh, hmm, test kit, now.'

So you're essentially a hypocrite who was too weak-willed to follow through with their views when ideals had to become actions? That's not my opinion of you or an insult, just an observation.

Also, for those wondering, the above is exactly what I don't want normalised in Ireland. "I only want one child. Any children that pops in to my life after that isn't going to live long enough to say daddy."

Dangerous Man

tempura wrote: »

Do you know what, I am sick to the eyeballs with abortion threads.

They always seem to be started by someone who has never been pregnant, not a parent, never even been close to a situation that might result in the creation of a baby...............seriously, blah, blah, blah , blah , come back when you've had some real life experience and stopped posting soundbytes heard from every other anti abortion, keyboard warrior who seems to have such a strong moralistic opinion on the subject !

Signed
Mother of two and abortion survivor (or child murderer if you prefer ).

Welcome to my ignore list.

Madam_X

"Don't get pregnant" - lol.

I doubt anyone is saying abortion is "ok" either - it's not the ideal, but sometimes it is the only option a woman feels she has, a last resort, due to other factors, and not a decision she takes lightly, and often a painful one. It should be obvious really - surprising it just flies over some people's heads.

I agree though, it's unfair on a man who would like to keep the child.

efb

goodie2shoes wrote: »

no of course not, but i shouldn't be prevented from expressing them either because it might be considered upsetting or inconvenient to others.

So you can say it, but not actually materialise???

oranbhoy67

Augmerson wrote: »

What we really need is a way to extract the foetus from those who don't want them and put them into people who do want them, like people who have trouble conceiving or my mate David. He is always harping on about wanting to have a baby. Everybody wins that way. Nobody has a growth inside them, nobody is a killer, and somebody gets a baby.

im guessing that you are taking the piss but i still agree lol

up for anything

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

from now on use contraception please if you cant deal with the aftermath

How do you know that they weren't?

Stop jumping to conclusions. :rolleyes:

Augmerson

What we really need is a way to extract the foetus from those who don't want them and put them into people who do want them, like people who have trouble conceiving or my mate David. He is always harping on about wanting to have a baby. Everybody wins that way. Nobody has a growth inside them, nobody is a killer, and somebody gets a baby.

Sponge25

I strongly feel that if you don't want a baby don't get pregnant!

Life isn't something you mess with, you don't put yourself in a circumstance that MAY create life if you don't want that. Under any circumstances.

Abortion for rape victims is OK IMO

I have no respect for people who have or support abortion and so called "womans rights"

PS. If the male doesn't want his child aborted, does he have any rights?

oranbhoy67

tempura wrote: »

Do you know what, I am sick to the eyeballs with abortion threads.

They always seem to be started by someone who has never been pregnant, not a parent, never even been close to a situation that might result in the creation of a baby...............seriously, blah, blah, blah , blah , come back when you've had some real life experience and stopped posting soundbytes heard from every other anti abortion, keyboard warrior who seems to have such a strong moralistic opinion on the subject !

Signed
Mother of two and abortion survivor (or child murderer if you prefer ).

Im a parent .. though i dont think that matters .. its a debate that concerns us all.

after all we are all capable of reproducing & once upon a time we were all carried by strong women who thankfully carried out there natural instinct.

why do people keep wanting these threads closed.. if you dont want to debate then ignore .. go read another topic.. no one is making you contribute!

Your an abortion survivor?? im sorry but i link the term survivor with someone that comes through a traumatic experience that either they were made to endure or didnt have any choice on.

You made the choice to do something ( which btw as you know is illegal in this country) nobody made you, it was your choice.. so please dont play the victim.

tomtherobot

tempura wrote: »

Do you know what, I am sick to the eyeballs with abortion threads.

They always seem to be started by someone who has never been pregnant, not a parent, never even been close to a situation that might result in the creation of a baby...............seriously, blah, blah, blah , blah , come back when you've had some real life experience and stopped posting soundbytes heard from every other anti abortion, keyboard warrior who seems to have such a strong moralistic opinion on the subject !

Signed
Mother of two and abortion survivor (or child murderer if you prefer ).

Jump to conclusions much?

tempura

Do you know what, I am sick to the eyeballs with abortion threads.

They always seem to be started by someone who has never been pregnant, not a parent, never even been close to a situation that might result in the creation of a baby...............seriously, blah, blah, blah , blah , come back when you've had some real life experience and stopped posting soundbytes heard from every other anti abortion, keyboard warrior who seems to have such a strong moralistic opinion on the subject !

Signed
Mother of two and abortion survivor (or child murderer if you prefer ).

oranbhoy67

Fromthetrees wrote: »

Didn't read all the thread,
but,
I agreed fully with the OP,
right up until after the mother of my child missed a ('thing') about 5 months after our first and ONLY child was born. That's it. Had the trip to engerland planned before I even said 'ahh, hmm, test kit, now.'

that sir makes you a hypocrite

from now on use contraception please if you cant deal with the aftermath

tomtherobot

Fromthetrees wrote: »

Didn't read all the thread,
but,
I agreed fully with the OP,
right up until after the mother of my child missed a ('thing') about 5 months after our first and ONLY child was born. That's it. Had the trip to engerland planned before I even said 'ahh, hmm, test kit, now.'

And do you think the state should pay for counseling for you? I mean it was your decision and not a medical emergancy?

Fromthetrees

tomtherobot wrote: »

Now, normally i stay away from abortion debates because i find they're full of extremist types but this morning, i found the country's favorite moral crusader aka Ray D'arcy, preaching on about the rights of women who've had abortions. This led me to the conclusion that there's a general consensus these days that abortion is now acceptable to the majority (ok not just this alone), but if this is the case, i think it raises two issues going forward (as they say)

Firstly, maintenance payments for children? How can a society, or individual, who supports a woman's exclusive right to chose to have an abortion at the same time come to fathers with the paw out looking for money to support children. If a father has no choice whether the child is alive or not how can he be demanded to support that child? Makes no sense whatsoever to me.

Secondly, the Ray D'arcy show this morning was talking about counseling for women after abortion. Seemingly the HSE already pays for this. I can't understand how state support for counseling for women who've had abortions is justified. On one side of the debate, pro abortionists say it's a procedure to remove a physical growth which isn't alive. If that's the case why the need for counseling? On the other side, anti-abortionists say it's murder, so why would the state be counseling murderers? Did I miss something, do we not still have old folk being left to rot on trolleys, surely the HSE has greater priorities now than counseling women who've chose to have an abortion.

As you may have guessed, i'm anti-abortion. I'm not religious I just believe that an unborn child is alive. Why else would people mourn the loss of unborn or stillborn children? Or require counseling after 'terminating' one? Given that i believe that an unborn child is alive I think killing one is wrong and cannot be justified above the social or material needs of the parent(s). No more or less than i think it would be ok to kill your elderly parents just because they don't suit where you are in you're life right now.....

Didn't read all the thread,
but,
I agreed fully with the OP,
right up until after the mother of my child missed a ('thing') about 5 months after our first and ONLY child was born. That's it. Had the trip to engerland planned before I even said 'ahh, hmm, test kit, now.'

oranbhoy67

its just wrong

they need counselling cos basically they have killed there unborn child or terminated to use the more used phrase

Often times without any word from the father who has also created the life..

Theres too much focus on the womans rights.. & not enough or zero on the unborn Child and the Fathers

I think its something to be proud of that this country doesnt carry out these procedures

& im not religious either btw

tomtherobot

krudler wrote: »

as far as retarded analogies go, thats pretty up there.

If you say so. Doesn't take from the point though, why do some women claim a greater right to decide on abortion?

krudler

tomtherobot wrote: »

Yeah i don't buy this stuff either that women should have more, or all, of the say when it comes to abortion.

Let's say a man is walking home one night. He see's one woman killing another. By this thinking he shouldn't intervene. I mean who is he to be telling women what to do with their bodies.....

as far as retarded analogies go, thats pretty up there.

goodie2shoes

efb wrote: »

Do you believe you should be allowed to impose your will and morals on others?

no of course not, but i shouldn't be prevented from expressing them either because it might be considered upsetting or inconvenient to others.

tomtherobot

seamus wrote: »

yet show very little humanity for those who actually are alive.

Im all for humanity, counsel the poor, sick, needy, drug addicts, domestic abuse victims etc etc

Now hypocrisy on the other hand, i've no time for.....

efb

goodie2shoes wrote: »

btw i am not religious.
my views are purely based on what i believe to be the correct, moral thing to do.

Do you believe you should be allowed to impose your will and morals on others?

efb

Fcuk me can we have an abortion forum that can be hidden???

goodie2shoes

btw i am not religious.
my views are purely based on what i believe to be the correct, moral thing to do.

Royal Legend

seamus wrote: »

Why can't we do both? Do counselling services occupy beds in hospitals? Nope.

If someone requires assistance in the form of counselling, is there ever any justification for turning around and saying, "Fnck you, you made your bed now lie in it"?

Tell you what, from now on everyone who presents at A&E will be assessed as to whether it was their own fault or a genuine accident. Heart attack? Tough ****, you're fat, it's your fault, go home.
Overdose? Haha, you're joking right, get out of my hospital.

Always puzzles me how so many people claim to oppose abortion on the basis of life, yet show very little humanity for those who actually are alive.[/QUOTE]

Reply of the day IMO, this thread should close.