Shenshen wrote: » Nobody forgave the Germans their debts, they have been paying back war debt and reparations up until very recently.
Germany will finally clear its First World War debt by repaying nearly 75.84€million this weekend. The 27.81€billion reparations were set by the Allied victors – mostly Britain, France and America – as compensation and punishment for the 1914-18 war. The reparations were set at the Treaty of Versailles on June 28, 1919, by the Allied victors - mostly Britain, France and America.
Colmustard wrote: » People I was on to my bank manager and I read this to him and I said I am not paying my mortgage anymore on the grounds your organisations broke this country. He understood and he said he will not send me any pontificating letters and he will write the debt off. I am now a property owner. OP you are brilliant. History what is the point.
Biggins wrote: » Yep, I remember reading about it recently. One info link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315869/Germany-end-World-War-One-reparations-92-years-59m-final-payment.html
Shenshen wrote: » ...The US seems to mostly have taken any patents and copyrights they could get their hands on. That would explain the massive technological advances they made in the 50s.
dttq wrote: » You are about as funny as a German stand up comedian.
Shenshen wrote: » Nobody forgave the Germans their debts, they have been paying back war debt and reparations up until very recently. So what exactly is your point here?
cosbloodymick wrote: » Simply untrue. Germany had all its WW2 debt written off in 1952. An equivalent of 600% of its GDP. Germany also got a massive stimulus of billions of dollars in aid in the form of the Marshall plan from the nations it had actually tried to destroy. Not to mention all the loot it plundered from the nations it invaded. The debts Germany insists Ireland has now to pay back include private debt that has been transferred to the sovereign (tax Payers). I have no problem paying back what is legitimately owed but squeezing Ireland to pay back failed speculators is immoral and the complete opposite of the benevolence shown to Germany when it was in trouble. I'm with the OP on this one
Colmustard wrote: » Are German stand up comedians not funny? I seen one and he was hilarious, but not as funny as you.
cosbloodymick wrote: » Simply untrue. . Germany also got a massive stimulus of billions of dollars in aid in the form of the Marshall plan from the nations it had actually tried to destroy.
davet82 wrote: » so now we've established the germans are hypocrites and started two world wars and killed millions and wrecked other countries economies and beat lots of teams at football it now means that Ireland shouldnt have to pay pack all the money that was borrowed from them... somebody call Enda and let him know this, well done OP :rolleyes:
Colmustard wrote: » They got Marshal aid to stop them from going commy. As for Ireland we had to save our banks. I don't know what would have happened if we let our banks go to the wall. I think our problems would have been worse. I don't know. Perhaps we should have let Anglo go, but we will never know. So we borrowed to save our banks, not the speculators. I believe that was the prudent thing to do at that time.
OSI wrote: » Not really fair to blame the Germans entirely for both WW's. They were part of a much bigger picture that caused WW1, and after being shafted with the blame and responsibility for WW1 at the end of it, spiralled pretty steeply eventually leading to the Nazis gaining power and WW2. You can lay a large portion of blame on the rise of the Nazis on the Allies trying to humiliate Germany after WW1.
swimming in a sea wrote: » So you could say they have not learned from their own past with regards to Greece.
Shenshen wrote: » Most people believed that at the time, I know I did. I don't think there were many people around who even suspected that the bank debt we were guaranteeing would be high enough to bankrupt the entire country. Nobody would have imagined that at the time, and the people who should have checked... well, didn't.
dttq wrote: » Ok, I'm going to go against the advice of Basil Fawlty here, but in light of recent German moral pontificating on debt in countries like Ireland and Greece, am I the only one who sees hypocrisy here given Germany's own history? This is a country that within the space of 40 years, caused the two largest wars in Europe's history, which not only caused tens of millions of deaths, but also bankrupted large parts of Europe for decades, causing as much economic destruction in the process, as the destruction of lives. At least we, even if we didn't get our economic policies right, never destroyed the economies of other countries, bankrupting some of them for decades after the end of WWII.
Colmustard wrote: » And that was the crux of it, the banks lied through their teeth and Lenihan believed them. But this is hindsight, I think he should have let Anglo go, but he would still have to have saved AIB and BOI, otherwise it would have been a disaster.Imagine a country with no wages been paid and everyones saving wiped out completely. That is what would have happened. But we will never know whether that was the best thing to do, then what he did do.
cosbloodymick wrote: » That country is Iceland. Their savings depreciated 50%. But they are in a much better position than we are now. Unemployment: Ireland 14.9% v Iceland 7%. Growth: Ireland 0 v Iceland 2/3%. Iceland can Borrow money at sustainable rates, Ireland cannot. Icelands circumstances have been improving every quarter for the last 18mths ours are tanking. We are paying a massive price for this in terms of unemployment emigration and suicides. Iceland had a referendum whether to pay back bondholders or not and the people refused. Makes a mockery of the "we must pay back every penny to unsecured bondholders or no one will ever lend to us again" brigade. Of course I am well aware that Iceland was not in the Euro straightjacket that we are and is able to devalue its currency.
Colmustard wrote: » You can't compare Iceland to Ireland. Icelands population is 300,000 about the size of Cork, they have their own resources and currency, we do not.
Shenshen wrote: » So what you're saying is, the Icelandic had the good sense to elect better politicians, who decided to not bail out the banks, whereas the Irish voted in a few of the lads, who underwrote all of their nation's bank debt against the advise of all other European nations? I'm with you so far, but you have to explain to me again how that is Germany's fault?
cosbloodymick wrote: » Because the ECB threatened to cut off liquidity to the Irish banks unless the Irish government gave a blanket gaurantee. Remember the ECB is supposed to be the lender of last resort, not the Irish taxpayer. The government is in possession of a letter written by the ECB to Brian Lenihan saying exactly that and are very anxious that it not be published. But the truth will out eventually.
juan.kerr wrote: » What I don't understand is why the rest of europe stood idly by while germany reunified. Will this turn out to be our 'Munich Agreement'? Next they'll start talking about Lebensraum again.
