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Child Item

N64 owners, your video problems are over.

Retr0gamer

Good news for PAL N64 owners sick if shitty composite video, I've found the solution.

Recently on a thread someone said that s-video worked on PAL N64's. My bull**** alarm sounded but curiosity got the better of me and I had a look. Seems I was right and wrong. S-video does work on the PAL N64 but Nintendo left out components so that it doesn't work properly. The video displays but all the colours are ultra bright and over saturated. However I stumbled across a thread about someone that hardwired a s-video cable to the N64 console and added the extra components himself and got it to work. There was a message on the thread saying you could mod the s-video cable itself with the components for a cleaner mod.

Anyway was on consolegoods.co.uk and saw that rob had modded s-video cables for sale so inquired and seems these cables would work on a PAL system but not NTSC so I took a chance.

The cable arrived today and I can happily report it works beautifully. The picture quality is amazing. No more dot crawling and the colours are far more vivid. To the naked eye there's no difference between this and RGB. I tried Perfect Dark which is massively improved by this cable. Goldeneye was improved as well but less so since it seems to over use the N64 blur and looks absolutely terrible anyway. Other games like Mario 64, Mario Kart and 2D games like Mischief Makers really are substantially improved.

Now the difference between composite and s-video on the N64 isn't as amazing as the difference between composite and RGB on a megadrive and the SNES because of the awful N64 anti aliasing blur. if you look at the edge of a polygon instead of a diagonal with a staircase effect going up it you have pixels smudged randomly along the edge which looks even worse. Still I highly recommend this cable because even with Nintendos awful anti aliasing this cable is a massive improvement over AV composite.

Edit: I also tried this on the NTSC machine. The only game I had was Conkers Bad Fur day which unfortunately a very dark game anyway. It was hard to see the screen but it is at the best of times anyway but I have a feeling that this cable displays an image that is a bit too dark on a NTSC N64 consoles.

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80s Synth Pop

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The main problem is I got a lot of the best games in a very reasonable bundles from adverts or whatever it was when it was still on boards. I'd have to buy all the games individually now and some games like Majoras Mask and Ocarina have gone up in value because of all the ****ing idiots paying over the odds for games that aren't rare at all. It would cost a lot more.

The problem isn't how the games look on a PAL consoles. Get a modded s-video cable and it looks fine. It's the slow down on a lot of games which makes then not as much fun to play. An considering a lot of N64 games have major framerate issues then it makes playing a lot of games really bad.

Nintendo were very good (with the exception of a god awful Wave Race conversion) with PAL conversions as were the UK based devs like Rare and DMA but outside of the you've got some very dodgy PAL conversions from the likes of Konami.

There's also the fact that there's a few very good Japanese and US exclusives that are must haves like Ogre Battle and Sin and Punishment. TBH I just used the virtual console for these games.

ahem *cough*

Retr0gamer

Ah it's not the same as owning the originals!

OwaynOTT

The originals have to be fully boxed though. Phaw! To carts.

80s Synth Pop

no room for 100% of everything. It's the same code running on real hardware.... discuss

Myrddin

80s Synth Pop wrote: »

no room for 100% of everything. It's the same code running on real hardware.... discuss

We've had this discussion before, & while I agree with you it is bit for bit the same code running on real hardware...there is a difference. The difference is hard to explain, its nothing visual or aural, more a fuzzy sense of gratification that your playing the real cart & have improved your collection.

Its purely psychological in that sense, but being the owner of flash carts & gen carts...I know what Retr0 means by 'better to have real carts'

Retr0gamer

The problem with emulators and flash carts is you spend hours flicking between games and yet no time spent really enjoying any particular one.

Myrddin

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The problem with emulators and flash carts is you spend hours flicking between games and yet no time spent really enjoying any particular one.

Thats it, its like pick whatever you want when you want & it takes the enjoyment outta having a dedicated cart.

Technically speaking, there is no difference whatsoever. The only difference to me was regards arcade games. I sold off my original boards because the emulated versions of them were so accurate & the cab is just too big & bulky to be lugging out to swap boards.

The Last Bandit

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The problem with emulators and flash carts is you spend hours flicking between games and yet no time spent really enjoying any particular one.

Exactly, I've a PS2 ,XBox collection Jack Sparrow would be proud but at least 33% were only every booted up once, no real appreciation because there was too many gotten too easily.

With the current generation, I only buy ones I really want and usually finished them unless they're crap of course.

OwaynOTT

Like music on mp3 players. Skip, skip, skip, nearly crash, skip, skip

CiDeRmAn

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The problem with emulators and flash carts is you spend hours flicking between games and yet no time spent really enjoying any particular one.

This is a topic on which we have agreed before.
The more games you wind up with in your collection, for whatever reason, especially if you get them often and in large numbers, the less of any one title you invest time in.
And this is particularly true of illegal copies that are gotten with ease and in large batches for free.
You get a marvelous selection of the best on a system, yes, but you also haven't possibly got the time to get the best from them and with so much to choose from and a plentiful, tempting supply of more titles always in the wings, you are never likely to see more than a few before moving onto the next one.

I've seen this every console a "friend" owns, from the PS1, DC, Xbox, DS and so on.
You have every release at your fingertips and wind up playing none of them.

Another factor is the lack of a physical, monetary investment in a title.
With it you are going to want to make the most of the game that has taken funds from your pocket, that took time in the store to chose, that took consideration via information outlets, demos etc.
I mean, I have Dark Souls, I spent 50 quid on it, I am damn sure I'm going to get my moneys worth from it! If it was a free download it's be played for 30 mins before being put to one side and something else shiny played in it's sted!

So, don't over value back-ups, they really are more damaging to your gaming life than you imagine, leading to apathy towards a format more than anything.

CiDeRmAn

That said I have a vast PS2 collection of, what I consider, the best the format has to offer, like Fire Warrior

, and they get little or no play these days at all.
Someday, I say to myself, someday I will get back to them but it never happens...

I blame my 360....

o1s1n

It's a funny thing. Imagine going back in time and giving yourself a flash cart loaded with every Megadrive/Snes game. You'd piss yourself with excitement.

Now we all just expect to have millions of games at our fingertips. It devalues things.

That's why I'll always stick with originals too myself when I can.

However! Sitting on a couch with a Nomad & an Everdrive for example is far better than having to keep standing up and looking for original carts.

Something similar can be said for the Vectrex, if something has a unique aspect, like a vector monitor or stereoscopic displays, then I'll happily use a flash cart too.

I'm beginning to go the same way with cabs. I absolutely love having original boards, but after seeing some super sweet front ends...why limit what you can play?

It all comes down to self control really, doesn't it? If you can stop yourself from game hopping and get over the apathy having millions of games brings, then that's probably the way to go.

I think you had it right Andrew76 when you said emulation for as many arcade games as you can, arcade board when you feel like something special

Pyongyang

Well said Andrew76 and o1s1n. I don't use emulators at all though, all originals. However when I start dipping my toe in to the high end of the market I will likely test a game in MAME and see if I want to buy the PCB or get the best console version and save a few bob or just leave it.

o1s1n

Well that's one fantastic use for emulation - testing. I'd like to say it's resulted in me avoiding buying a lot of stinkers, but I think it's actually resulted in me buying more things I wouldn't have known existed

Andrew76

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The problem with emulators and flash carts is you spend hours flicking between games and yet no time spent really enjoying any particular one.

I disagree with the above, it just requires a little bit of self discipline when it comes to having a large collection of games, legally owned or not. Yourself and Dinorex did pretty good sticking to a couple of games when you had 1000s to choose from on that NES PowerPak that night. I bet neither of you owned the originals of the ones you played either.

Pyongyang wrote: »

Well said Andrew76 and o1s1n. I don't use emulators at all though, all originals. However when I start dipping my toe in to the high end of the market I will likely test a game in MAME and see if I want to buy the PCB or get the best console version and save a few bob or just leave it.

I'm curious, why is that? Have you never wanted to see what a game is like that you had never played before? Regardless of whether you planned to buy the original or not. Was there never a game from your childhood or other period that you wanted to revisit but couldn't find the original of? Or didn't want to spend mother on a machine and game just in case you no longer liked it as much. I mainly use emulation on the cab so I can play games I'll never own the original of. Ironically enough, because I have feck all time for games playing, the one game I do play via Mame these days I actually own the pcb of.

As for the "all originals" comment, that compact flash card and updated BIOS on yer Taito G-Net board isn't 100% original is it? :P (Seriously though, I'm not knocking you at all here, just saying it's very hard to be 100% original these days.)

The following isn't directed at you Pyongyang btw, but I think we're lucky that emulation and flash carts exist. Regardless of your motives (or morals!) they're brilliant tools to have available and respect to the very clever people who create them. The amount of games and systems they give us access to is incredible. Games you never heard of or never had a chance to play before, or maybe couldn't afford, or maybe they were never released over here. Fair enough if you go buy the original machine/game afterwards but not trying something via emulation could be a very expensive habit. I would also imagine all the folks on here who sing the praises of that Mother 3 game are quite happy emulation and translation patches exist. Maybe folk are actually missing out by never dabbling in emulation in some shape imo.

(Totally OT but Pyong I now realise who you remind me of, that comedian chap Michael McIntyre, funny guy.

:pac:)

Steve X2

Oh man I'd miss my emulators if I lost access to them.

Imagining my candy cab without Hyperspin brings a deep sadness.
I really think people are missing out by not giving emulators a shot.

.

Retr0gamer

Andrew76 wrote: »

Yourself and Dinorex did pretty good sticking to a couple of games when you had 1000s to choose from on that NES PowerPak that night. I bet neither of you owned the originals of the ones you played either.

Fuck Toki.

Really want to play more battle kid.

Andrew76

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Fuck Toki.

Really want to play more battle kid.

Yeah it saddens me to say I don't get to play Battle Kid much. Crap hard game (as you now know) but damn impressive coming from a lone dev (coding wise I think he's the only person). Reckon I'll get the sequel when it comes out too. Actually just noticed there's a demo out so might give that a whirl. The label art shown at the end of this vid is pretty cool looking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AaC7-SjOb8

Pyongyang

I'm curious, why is that? Have you never wanted to see what a game is like that you had never played before?

I used to have stacks of emulators years ago, I guess now I just don't bother with it so much as I'd never play all the games on them anyway. The only real practical use I'd have for them now is for the real high-end stuff, Batrider, Esp Ra De, Progear etc which, if I was to buy them, I'd certainly want to see if I actually liked any of them enough to warrant a major spend that they would require.

I'm happy out buying what I know I will play and, if I'm unsure, watching a few videos and reading as much information on them as I can first. I make a decision off of that instead and it works for me.

As for the "all originals" comment, that compact flash card and updated BIOS on yer Taito G-Net board isn't 100% original is it? :P (Seriously though, I'm not knocking you at all here, just saying it's very hard to be 100% original these days.)

Touche! OK, the G-Net is a bit hypocritical of me but it's a solution that works when the individual carts are so expensive. If it helps though, I own originals of some of them, just console versions instead!

I think we're lucky that emulation and flash carts exist. Regardless of your motives (or morals!) they're brilliant tools to have available and respect to the very clever people who create them. The amount of games and systems they give us access to is incredible. Games you never heard of or never had a chance to play before, or maybe couldn't afford, or maybe they were never released over here. Fair enough if you go buy the original machine/game afterwards but not trying something via emulation could be a very expensive habit.

Very true.

(Totally OT but Pyong I now realise who you remind me of, that comedian chap Michael McIntyre, funny guy. :pac:)

I don't know if that's a compliment or not, but thanks...I think! :P

o1s1n

Apologies for a zombie thread, but I just got my Gamecube S video cable and tested it out - wanted to post some results! (video signal quality porn to me is akin to scaler porn with Pyong!)

So, as we all know, you can't get RGB out of an NTSC Gamecube unless you spend about 100 euro on an official component cable and hack it. Nobody of sound mind would want to do that.

It does output S video though. Which, from my testing a minute ago, is a really interesting compromise. It's a quality step between the horrors of composite and the beauty of RGB.

Dot crawl is almost gone and the colours are bright with no bleeding, but the image isn't as rock steady picture sharp as RGB. It's very close, but not 100% there.

It's an interesting signal to mess about with as it also comes with three composite cables. So you can have both a composite and S Video signal coming out of the console to your TV simultaneously, flicking between the two different stations to view the quality difference.

To get the best picture out of S video, you really need to plug the composite video line out. (the composite sound jacks still need to be plugged in though, there's no sound through the S video jack)

I'm really happy with the results. Can finally play this Gamecube without being distracted by dot crawl

Retr0gamer

It probably looks better on N64 due to the blur

o1s1n

Well it's good enough for a signal quality snob like myself to consider using! The slight dot crap was only noticeable because I was practically sitting with my nose pressed against the screen.

o1s1n

o1s1n wrote: »

Well it's good enough for a signal quality snob like myself to consider using! The slight dot crap was only noticeable because I was practically sitting with my nose pressed against the screen.

HAHAHAHA.

Believe it or not, that was a typo.

Myrddin

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It probably looks better on N64 due to the blur

Yeah I found the N64 s-video signal a massive improvement over composite, maybe with the GC's higher resolutions s-video starts to show its limits?

o1s1n

So I tried a different game, Rogue Squadron 2, and the picture quality looks much better than Waverace. If someone told you it was an RGB signal you'd probably believe them.

I think it's possibly because of the colours being used. Waverace is really bright whereas Rogue Squadron isn't. All of the colours are traveling over the one signal with S video whereas RGB splits them up into their own lines. So I guess that's probably what was causing the less than RGB standard picture with Waverace with all those different colours - I don't think dot crawl is possible with S video.

Retr0gamer

The difference between s-video and RGB that I heard is that RGB splits red, green, blue and also black and white into seperate cables. S-video seperates red, blue and green but black and white come down the same cable so if there's very dark colours against very bright colours you will sometimes get faint dot crawl. In very colourful games it's not noticable.

o1s1n

With S video, all of the colours come down the same line believe it or not. It's mad given how impressive the image quality is.

The other line is the white and blacks. The remaining two lines are grounds. There are only four in total.

It's crazy when you compare it to RGB which has 21 pins. Actually I think RGB has so many pins that one of them even carries an S video signal.

CiDeRmAn

Ah the N64...

Gaming but with added....

Myrddin

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Ah sex...

My favourite thing to use/have used....

Fixed for you

CiDeRmAn

Hmm, a not sure about that gag tbh...

Plus, you are Enternow!