The Gay Megathread (see mod note on post #2212)

Sonics2k wrote: »

Does anyone have that dodge gif?

You claimed that children need both a mother and father.

Neither my cousin or I had a father. So what is wrong with us? How -exactly- did we have a harder time?

My nieces had a mother and a father (my brother as it happens)- their father worked in a different country their entire lives (all of them are in their 20s now). They saw him briefly on a Friday night, on Saturday he was either working in his home office or glued to some sports channel (not now darling, I'm watching the soccer/rugby/golf/fly racing) until dinner time (around 9 pm as they are very 'continental'), Sunday was 'his' day to play golf and zip around Switzerland in his sportscar for ****s and giggles. By the time the girls got up on Monday morning he was gone again. Their name for him was 'The Man from Milan'

My son had two parents who were always there apart from a brief period when I worked in a different city and returned home every Thurs evening and returned to work early Monday morning. We then spent the weekend doing family stuff together (all 3 of us). I quit my job as it wasn't fair to my son.

Apparently my brother's family life vis a vis his children was better than mine... the mind boggles.

JimiTime wrote: »

No, I claimed that the optimum environment was with a mother and a father.

And that has been disproven.

You are ignoring posts, studies, personal statements and outright facts because you simply do not want to change your mind.

You are openly allowing your personal opinions on homosexuality to influence your decision on whether or not they are suitable to raise children.

Well here's a nice little closing statement. Homosexuals are perfectly suitable to raise a child, as much as any heterosexual child.

I can only hope that I can raise my own two children half as well as my lesbian mother raised me. Because she really did give, provide and teach me everything I needed.

28064212

JimiTime wrote: »

Awww, disappointed. Mammy does the cookin, kinda stuff. I was expecting better than that Penn

Ok, this is a genuine call for honesty. Now please think about it. HONESTLY, forgetting about arguments, maybe looking silly, or suferring the ire of ones side etc. Can any of you seriously not come up with differences in how a father does, acts and deals with things, in general, to the way a mother does? PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't hold back your answer if you've got one.

No, can't come up with a single difference that could be applied "in general". Want to claim I'm lying again?

Here's a crazy, insane, totally off-the-wall bananas idea: Why don't you post the differences you perceive? I know it's out-there and totally unfair of me to make such a ridiculous demand of you, but maybe, just maybe, it might actually develop into a discussion instead of this utterly nonsensical merry-go-round that you seem intent on perpetuating

Sonics2k wrote: »

Does anyone have that dodge gif?

You claimed that children need both a mother and father.

Neither my cousin or I had a father. So what is wrong with us? How -exactly- did we have a harder time?

No, I claimed that the optimum environment was with a mother and a father.

Penn wrote: »

Okay.

- My father taught me how to drive. My mother could have done that.
- My father taught me how to shave. My mother could have done that.
- My mother cooked and cleaned. My father could have done that.
- My mother sewed clothes. My father could have done that.

Now why don't you give some things that can't be done by the other.

Awww, disappointed. Mammy does the cookin, kinda stuff. I was expecting better than that Penn

Ok, this is a genuine call for honesty. Now please think about it. HONESTLY, forgetting about arguments, maybe looking silly, or suferring the ire of ones side etc. Can any of you seriously not come up with differences in how a father does, acts and deals with things, in general, to the way a mother does? PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't hold back your answer if you've got one.

JimiTime wrote: »

I don't know you, nor do I believe that being raised by homosexuals = you will be a car crash. Nor do I believe that its nuclear family versus homosexual family. A homosexual family can be two women, two men, no biological connection, or the child of one of them etc. For instance, it could be shown that lesbian women raising a child that is biologically attached to one of the women, is better than two homosexual men etc.

Does anyone have that dodge gif?

You claimed that children need both a mother and father.

Neither my cousin or I had a father. So what is wrong with us? How -exactly- did we have a harder time?

JimiTime wrote: »

I don't know you, nor do I believe that being raised by homosexuals = you will be a car crash. Nor do I believe that its nuclear family versus homosexual family. A homosexual family can be two women, two men, no biological connection, or the child of one of them etc. For instance, it could be shown that lesbian women raising a child that is biologically attached to one of the women, is better than two homosexual men etc.

Being heterosexual parent's does not mean both parent's (or either) have a biological connection with their children. What's your point?

Edit to say: Sonic and Bluewolf - bet you are both delighted to hear neither of you is a 'car crash'

Sonics2k wrote: »

I like how you quote that one line and ignore the rest of the post.

That's some good ol fashioned dishonesty Jimi.

No, the rest was just irrelevant to what I was asking.

Sonics2k wrote: »

I was raised by a Lesbian couple. My cousin was raised by a single (straight) mother.
For the most part, we grew up in the same world, same circumstances.
We both did Tae Kwon Do, both played numerous sports. He's now a fully qualified carpenter, and I have a preference for networking and IT systems.
His mother taught him to shave, and my mother taught me to shave.

We're both typical lads, though he's more of a 'bloke' than I, but that's really down to our different personal interests.

We'll both be off to his stag party in a few weeks, and in turn he'll be coming to mine if I marry.

Now tell me Jimi. How are we disadvantaged because there was no father? How am I disadvantaged because my mother was a lesbian?

What -exactly- is wrong with us?

I don't know you, nor do I believe that being raised by homosexuals = you will be a car crash. Nor do I believe that its nuclear family versus homosexual family. A homosexual family can be two women, two men, no biological connection, or the child of one of them etc. For instance, it could be shown that lesbian women raising a child that is biologically attached to one of the women, is better than two homosexual men etc.

Penn wrote: »

Okay.

- My father taught me how to drive. My mother could have done that.
- My father taught me how to shave. My mother could have done that.
- My mother cooked and cleaned. My father could have done that.
- My mother sewed clothes. My father could have done that.

Now why don't you give some things that can't be done by the other.

While you are doing that don't forget to tell Sonic and bluewolf what is wrong with them.

Penn

JimiTime wrote: »

So tell us the things that WERE done by your dad, but not mum in their dealings with you that you say COULD have been done by either of them.

Okay.

- My father taught me how to drive. My mother could have done that.
- My father taught me how to shave. My mother could have done that.
- My mother cooked and cleaned. My father could have done that.
- My mother sewed clothes. My father could have done that.

Now why don't you give some things that can't be done by the other.

JimiTime wrote: »

What would you be thinking of?

I like how you quote that one line and ignore the rest of the post.

That's some good ol fashioned dishonesty Jimi.

Sonics2k wrote: »

What -exactly- is wrong with us?

Sonic - you have made an excellent observation there.

Jimi - since Sonic and bluewolf were 'denied' a father (which is not to say they did not have male role models) what exactly is wrong with them?

Penn

JimiTime wrote: »

No problem. Though again, I'd ask you to think about the question. Maybe even think of the question when observing mothers and fathers with their children in the future, and see if you can see common differences cropping up. You'll even see a lot in the playground. Be aware of your desire NOT to see differences too, as it'll cloud your judgement.

I have two sisters who are married and have children.

Sister A is a lot stricter with her child, while her husband is more passive.
Sister B is more passive, while her husband is more strict.

You can't generalise parents by their gender. It's never a case of "All mothers act one way and all fathers act one way, so child needs mother and father". All parents are different, because people are different. Again, you've provided nothing to demonstrate that a child must have a mother and a father, despite actual proof from people here that it's not necessary.

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Was there differences between my mum and dad? Yes of course. Lots.

What would you be thinking of?

JimiTime wrote: »

I'm not concerned for the donor at all. If he willingly donates his sperm in such an arrangement, well, thats a decision he makes. My concern lies with the child who was denied a father. Here's a question if you can answer honestly. Did you and the father of your child, before having a child, give due consideration to the denial of a father in your childs life, and if it would possibly have any negative consequences? If so, may I ask what you did in terms of consideration? Again, this may be too personal a question, so no worries if you'd prefer not to get into it.

I was raised by a Lesbian couple. My cousin was raised by a single (straight) mother.
For the most part, we grew up in the same world, same circumstances.
We both did Tae Kwon Do, both played numerous sports. He's now a fully qualified carpenter, and I have a preference for networking and IT systems.
His mother taught him to shave, and my mother taught me to shave.

We're both typical lads, though he's more of a 'bloke' than I, but that's really down to our different personal interests.

We'll both be off to his stag party in a few weeks, and in turn he'll be coming to mine if I marry.

Now tell me Jimi. How are we disadvantaged because there was no father? How am I disadvantaged because my mother was a lesbian?

What -exactly- is wrong with us?

Penn wrote: »

I'm honestly trying to think of something and drawing a blank. Every time I try to think of something either of my parents did, I realise that it could be done by a member of the opposite sex, so it doesn't count.

While I'm having a think, why not post some of the differences you've thought of?

So tell us the things that WERE done by your dad, but not mum in their dealings with you that you say COULD have been done by either of them.

JimiTime wrote: »

But you didn't. You RAISED a child with a woman. You HAD a child with a man. A man was required for you to have a child. That man is the father of your child. I'm not trying to be a knob here (though you may think that untrue:) ) I just don't like this kind of language that denies whats actually happened, or aims to divert from what has actually happened. You are a lesbian, which in turn means that you are biologically incompatible with your chosen partner. I didn't make the rules. When you want a child, you must go to a biologically compatible person, i.e. a man. Now, you may choose to use language to divert from the reality of this, but I don't. The reality, is that you had a child with a man, but raised it with another woman.

I'm not concerned for the donor at all. If he willingly donates his sperm in such an arrangement, well, thats a decision he makes. My concern lies with the child who was denied a father. Here's a question if you can answer honestly. Did you and the father of your child, before having a child, give due consideration to the denial of a father in your childs life, and if it would possibly have any negative consequences? If so, may I ask what you did in terms of consideration? Again, this may be too personal a question, so no worries if you'd prefer not to get into it.

Sonics and bluewolf have already answered this question re: being raised without a father many, many, many, manymanymany, times already but you don't want to hear what they have to say.

Koth has written of being raised without a mother. You are ignoring him too.

Do you object to single parents too since you are concerned about children not having a father/mother figure?

We have collectively dealt with every single point you have made already when those exact same points were raised by other posters - yet you ignore this.

You write about 'differences' but when asked to clarify what exactly you think these differences are you ignore this too.

One would suspect that you are not interested in a discussion but are intent on repeating the same old tosh over and over in hope that we will all go away. Hate to be the bringer of ill tidings, but Jimi - we ain't going away.

28064212 wrote: »

In other words "I know my argument is weak and won't stand up to any kind of scrutiny"

Again, you are posting like I care what you think I'm doing or thinking? You can decide to take it whatever way you like. I've said what I've said, now its up to you to do and think as you will.

By the way, I have absolute proof that God doesn't exist. I'm not going to tell you about it though, you already have the answers. Obviously you don't want to accept it on a public forum, but you know the truth

Good on ye.

bluewolf wrote: »

I was hoping to have a proper two way discussion on this where we could hear your side of things and tease out the issues so we could all learn a little.
But since you're going to call us all liars, I'm out of here. No point.

No problem. Though again, I'd ask you to think about the question. Maybe even think of the question when observing mothers and fathers with their children in the future, and see if you can see common differences cropping up. You'll even see a lot in the playground. Be aware of your desire NOT to see differences too, as it'll cloud your judgement.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Let's not go bastardising the English language here

As I said - I had a child with a woman.

But you didn't. You RAISED a child with a woman. You HAD a child with a man. A man was required for you to have a child. That man is the father of your child. I'm not trying to be a knob here (though you may think that untrue:) ) I just don't like this kind of language that denies whats actually happened, or aims to divert from what has actually happened. You are a lesbian, which in turn means that you are biologically incompatible with your chosen partner. I didn't make the rules. When you want a child, you must go to a biologically compatible person, i.e. a man. Now, you may choose to use language to divert from the reality of this, but I don't. The reality, is that you had a child with a man, but raised it with another woman.

I find this concern for the 'sperm donor' interesting in light of the hundreds of years when men were free to 'donate sperm' and walk away...some are still doing that.
But let a woman decide to shoulder the responsibilities alone or with her female partner then its all 'oooh that poor man had his sperm robbed' ...:rolleyes:

I'm not concerned for the donor at all. If he willingly donates his sperm in such an arrangement, well, thats a decision he makes. My concern lies with the child who was denied a father. Here's a question if you can answer honestly. Did you and the father of your child, before having a child, give due consideration to the denial of a father in your childs life, and if it would possibly have any negative consequences? If so, may I ask what you did in terms of consideration? Again, this may be too personal a question, so no worries if you'd prefer not to get into it.

nozzferrahhtoo

JimiTime wrote: »

Were you raised by your mum and dad? If so, are you telling me that YOU cannot point to the differences?

Was there differences between my mum and dad? Yes of course. Lots. Were any of those differences linkable to their sex? No.

They were different _people_ so of course there was differences between them. That however has nothing to do with this thread, this topic, or your claims however. IF this is what your whole position is based on... the fact that different people are different.... then you are on even shakier ground than I thought before.

No wonder you are not actually listing any of the differences and are ducking and dodging behind lines like "You already know what they are" or "It would do you no good for me to answer" or calling everyone liars or whatever cop out you are peddling today to avoid the question you know you can not answer.

When it comes down to it.... and a whole stream of posts in the last hours shows I am FAR from alone in seeing this.... you are espousing a position... you are being asked a simple question about that position.... and you are leaping about like a teenage Russian acrobat on hot coals trying to dodge out of answering it.

If YOU think there are differences between males and females in some way that is relevant to the successful and healthy upbringing of a child then YOU tell us what they are rather than engaging in this highly transparent game of dodge. We have already had Philologos/Jakkass doing that for several pages now. No point in you repeating the performance.

Penn

JimiTime wrote: »

Ok, can you tell me of the unimportant things that were different?

I'm honestly trying to think of something and drawing a blank. Every time I try to think of something either of my parents did, I realise that it could be done by a member of the opposite sex, so it doesn't count.

While I'm having a think, why not post some of the differences you've thought of?

Delirium

JimiTime wrote: »

Forget what I'm thinking, my thoughts can be put away as 'Ahh but that was you'. I'm asking for you to look at what you know. I'm looking for the people in denial of the differences, to come out of the closet and tell us the answers, because they know they're there;)

And you're forgetting that I stated that I grew up without my biological mother after she died when I was still quite young. You're asking me to state the differences you keep alluding to while I have no experience of them.

28064212

JimiTime wrote: »

Unfortunately bluewolf, people like to win arguments. They also like to have the popular opinion. For many, its not about truth or honesty. It would do you guys no good to be given a set of answers for you to spin, chew, misrepresent etc.

In other words "I know my argument is weak and won't stand up to any kind of scrutiny"

JimiTime wrote: »

The fact that I know, and witness daily, the obvious differences (And btw, I believe you probably know also, as you likely see other fathers and mothers in action), means that most others also know. You guys can fling mud, sarcasm, gifs, insults, backslaps etc all you want, but the answers are within you already. They may not come out here in the public fora, but you know at least some of the explicit the differences I referred to.

So now all of us are lying?

By the way, I have absolute proof that God doesn't exist. I'm not going to tell you about it though, you already have the answers. Obviously you don't want to accept it on a public forum, but you know the truth

[Deleted User]

I was hoping to have a proper two way discussion on this where we could hear your side of things and tease out the issues so we could all learn a little.
But since you're going to call us all liars, I'm out of here. No point.

Penn wrote: »

Yes, I cannot point to the differences. I honestly cannot think of one important thing that my father did that another mother couldn't have done, or that my mother did that another father couldn't have done. Honestly.

Ok, can you tell me of the unimportant things that were different?

bluewolf wrote: »

For god's sake jimi

"i want to hear from people with experiences"
"okay here they are"
"no i want to hear from people with experiences OF A MUM AND DAD"
"okay here they are"
"you're wrong"

You asked for experience, you got it. Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean their experience is wrong.

Give your answers and stop telling people "think again"

Unfortunately bluewolf, people like to win arguments. They also like to have the popular opinion. For many, its not about truth or honesty. It would do you guys no good to be given a set of answers for you to spin, chew, misrepresent etc. The fact that I know, and witness daily, the obvious differences (And btw, I believe you probably know also, as you likely see other fathers and mothers in action), means that most others also know. You guys can fling mud, sarcasm, gifs, insults, backslaps etc all you want, but the answers are within you already. They may not come out here in the public fora, but you know at least some of the explicit the differences I referred to.

Sin City

CerebralCortex wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMLZO-sObzQ

Some experience for ya. They even go to church... ...the mind boggles.

Nobodies perfect