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Child Item

Money talks in Ireland

kr7

Just reading this case this morning and I've got to say justice in this country makes me sick.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0730/lyons-jailed-for-six-months-for-sexual-assault.html

How can a 'businessman' sexually assault a woman, get a 6 year sentence and have 5 and a half years suspended?

What's going on in Ireland when the so called 'elite' can seemingly buy or wriggle their way out of trouble?

Who does this guy know, or more importantly what does this guy know??

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Our man in Havana

The even worse thing is he won't even do 6 months. The jails are so overcrowded that he will be out in 3 months.

gypsy_rose

Our man in Havana wrote: »

The even worse thing is he won't even do 6 months. The jails are so overcrowded that he will be out in 3 months.

The only solace is everyone knows who he is and what he did now, they're not going to look at him the same way again.

Capt'n Midnight

humanji wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=53674127 And that's just one of many examples.

As I said, it's nothing to do with money, it's to do with the system. In Ireland if you respect the system, you get f*cked by the system. If you have no respect for the system, you can get away with murder (which I'm sure there's been literal cases of).

Wasn't there a guy who killed a woman in a sex act. Strangulation or something. By all accounts she wasn't into anything like that. ( Was he from the UK ? )

Can't remember if he did it a second time or there was a different murder.

But it's scary how many serious crimes are committed by people who should have been reformed if our system worked or kept off the street if it didn't. It would be interesting to see a graph of the number of previous convictions vs murders rate.

LoYL

Intolerable. It's past time parliament passed the sort of laws that people want to deal with scum whether they're in Armani or trakies.

mackg

SocSocPol wrote: »

If you believe that then you are deluded.:mad:

This is terrible, another example of soft sentencing for this kind of crime but there are threads in here the whole time about laughable sentences for rape/ sexual assault where the perpetrator is not rich or connected. Why is this one special because he is?

If the average Joe was getting harsh sentences I could see the money talks angle but as it stands at the minute I don't.

JustAThought

It's sinister, depraved and disgusting that a young girl walking home from a night out, can be stalked,rugby tackled to the ground, dragged into. Garden, her clothed ripped off her and be raped; and the convicted rapist; Anthony Lyons of Griffith Avenue; only get 6 months with 5 1/2 years suspended because he is of good character & I'd unlikely to re- offend. What the f¥€k.

I recall Judge Herbert some years back also basically letting a convicted rapist off Scott free " because the woman wasn't rely hurt".

I asking seem to recall a Judge Curtain who got away with having thousands of images of hardcore child pornography on his PC & got off with full pension & retirement because the warrant was " out if dTe" by a day.

I agree with what another poster said; who did rapist Anthony Lyons know.

I wonder if he sold the new government Jet to the Irish Government or was part of that?

Today's Judge; Judge Desmond should be struck off for this disgusting mess. He has put rape victims back in the 1950's with his implied attitude . 75k for a rape from a multimillionaire. And max 6
Months in jail; it's just depraved.

That he was caught at all was a miracle ; to have a witness to the rape was extraordinary . For all this to happen, & this outcome is just horrifying .

We should all be writing to the DPP to object & to whomever the minister is. Many rapists reoffend. I wonder whose daughter or wife will be next. Only he won't be so stupid as to rape his neighbour next time.

We should all be pressing for Megans Law to be brought in, to Ireland. Too many women disappearing, unresolved rapes, and paedophiles & sex offenders creeping around & watching our children.

What about the lives of the innocent & the rights of children & the innocent .

We
Need to stop protecting scum
And start demanding real punishments as a deterrent.
Enough of the bleeding heart liberalism.

Whose child or wife is next.

steddyeddy

Every now and again you read a story that leaves a bad feeling in your stomach. Society shouldnt go down this route. We really really have to look at the type of people we are letting into law also.

Kooli

token101 wrote: »

Contrasted with the fact that another man (who had pleaded guilty fairly early on) got 3 years last week for filing fraudulent tax returns, this is a joke. People will say there shouldnt be a comparison between cases, but how can anyone not compare? It's a ****ing sick joke.

I've never understood this. Why on earth shouldn't different cases be compared? It seems a sensible way to illuminate ridiculous discrepancies in sentencing.

I have to say, when I saw a thread about this in AH, I was almost scared to open it, but I'm really, really glad to see such a unified response of horror, and sympathy for the victim.

I know someone who knows him, and if I heard her say one more time that he was a 'nice, respectable man' and that the ordeal was 'so difficult for his family' I was going to throttle her.

steddyeddy

Kooli wrote: »

I've never understood this. Why on earth shouldn't different cases be compared? It seems a sensible way to illuminate ridiculous discrepancies in sentencing.

I have to say, when I saw a thread about this in AH, I was almost scared to open it, but I'm really, really glad to see such a unified response of horror, and sympathy for the victim.

I know someone who knows him, and if I heard her say one more time that he was a 'nice, respectable man' and that the ordeal was 'so difficult for his family' I was going to throttle her.

Of course sentences should be compared. Its the measure of a society that a man gets less of a sentence for ruining a girls life than a man who didnt pay enough taxes.

Funnyonion79

JustAThought wrote: »

It's sinister, depraved and disgusting that a young girl walking home from a night out, can be stalked,rugby tackled to the ground, dragged into. Garden, her clothed ripped off her and be raped; and the convicted rapist; Anthony Lyons of Griffith Avenue; only get 6 months with 5 1/2 years suspended because he is of good character & I'd unlikely to re- offend. What the f¥€k.

I recall Judge Herbert some years back also basically letting a convicted rapist off Scott free " because the woman wasn't rely hurt".

I asking seem to recall a Judge Curtain who got away with having thousands of images of hardcore child pornography on his PC & got off with full pension & retirement because the warrant was " out if dTe" by a day.

I agree with what another poster said; who did rapist Anthony Lyons know.

I wonder if he sold the new government Jet to the Irish Government or was part of that?

Today's Judge; Judge Desmond should be struck off for this disgusting mess. He has put rape victims back in the 1950's with his implied attitude . 75k for a rape from a multimillionaire. And max 6
Months in jail; it's just depraved.

That he was caught at all was a miracle ; to have a witness to the rape was extraordinary . For all this to happen, & this outcome is just horrifying .

We should all be writing to the DPP to object & to whomever the minister is. Many rapists reoffend. I wonder whose daughter or wife will be next. Only he won't be so stupid as to rape his neighbour next time.

We should all be pressing for Megans Law to be brought in, to Ireland. Too many women disappearing, unresolved rapes, and paedophiles & sex offenders creeping around & watching our children.

What about the lives of the innocent & the rights of children & the innocent .

We
Need to stop protecting scum
And start demanding real punishments as a deterrent.
Enough of the bleeding heart liberalism.

Whose child or wife is next.

I'm going to write to the DPP and to Alan Shatter, the Minister for Justice tomorrow to express my disgust and anger at this lenient sentence.

So few rape cases even make it to the courts because of the trauma caused to the victim, having to relive the ordeal all over again and having to confront and face her attacker - and then one brave woman decides she'll take it all the way and not let him get away with it and he gets a pathetic six months!!

He has ruined her life - she will never fully recover from something like that, it will affect her forever and he'll be back on the street in about 3 months time. There are no words. I'm also going to send a letter to the judge while I'm at it. Disgusting.

Goat the dote

Unavailable for Comment wrote: »

It is terrible that he will only be in prison for a couple of months but in all fairness, 75K is probably of more use to the victim than seeing her attacker serve at most two years in prison.

Clearly you've (thankfully) never been a victim of sexual abuse/assault.
I'd rather someone be locked up for life rather than get the anxiety of worrying if you'll ever see them again

steddyeddy

Goat the dote wrote: »

Clearly you've (thankfully) never been a victim of sexual abuse/assault.
I'd rather someone be locked up for life rather than get the anxiety of worrying if you'll ever see them again

Its isnt even the anxiety of seeing the attacker. Im no expert but people I met who were sexually assaulted are often never the same after. They often have anxiety about life in general.

Edit: Sorry if talking about symptoms offends anyone who may be a victim of assault or abuse. Im no expert just saying what I heard off people I met. If Im wrong about the symtoms I apologise!

El Guapo!

Well I hope he's bum-fúcked every day he's locked up.
And the judge is a disgrace and should be fired given his history of lenient sentences.
What an absolute joke. This place gets worse by the day. :mad:

Millicent

steddyeddy wrote: »

Its isnt even the anxiety of seeing the attacker. Im no expert but people I met who were sexually assaulted are often never the same after. They often have anxiety about life in general.

Edit: Sorry if talking about symptoms offends anyone who may be a victim of assault or abuse. Im no expert just saying what I heard off people I met. If Im wrong about the symtoms I apologise!

No, you're not far off the mark. Also common is low self esteem, crippling depression, fear of intimacy, promiscuity, inability to form healthy relationships, PTSD, self harm, substance and alcohol abuse etc. etc. More here, if you wanna read.

Sexual violence takes a long time to get over. I hope she manages to get some good counselling with the compensation.* It should be mandatory for every criminal to pay for counselling for a crime like this.

*The compensation is no way a substitute for an appropriate jail sentence.

bhovaspack

It should also be mandatory for the aggressor to change residence, at his own expense. Living just down the road from the person who raped her is another torment I'm sure the woman could do without. Hopefully he will be made to feel very unwelcome by other residents.

Goat the dote

Millicent wrote: »

steddyeddy wrote: »

Its isnt even the anxiety of seeing the attacker. Im no expert but people I met who were sexually assaulted are often never the same after. They often have anxiety about life in general.

Edit: Sorry if talking about symptoms offends anyone who may be a victim of assault or abuse. Im no expert just saying what I heard off people I met. If Im wrong about the symtoms I apologise!

No, you're not far off the mark. Also common is low self esteem, crippling depression, fear of intimacy, promiscuity, inability to form healthy relationships, PTSD, self harm, substance and alcohol abuse etc. etc. More here, if you wanna read.

Sexual violence takes a long time to get over. I hope she manages to get some good counselling with the compensation.* It should be mandatory for every criminal to pay for counselling for a crime like this.

*The compensation is no way a substitute for an appropriate jail sentence.

Thanks for the link. It's like ticking off a checklist for myself here.
I think the only way A person could be adequately compensated is to have the memory of the incident plucked from the recesses of the brain and the memory totally erased.
Since that's impossible it means a measly (in terms of this) 75k wouldn't even begin to fix it

steddyeddy

Millicent wrote: »

No, you're not far off the mark. Also common is low self esteem, crippling depression, fear of intimacy, promiscuity, inability to form healthy relationships, PTSD, self harm, substance and alcohol abuse etc. etc. More here, if you wanna read.

Sexual violence takes a long time to get over. I hope she manages to get some good counselling with the compensation.* It should be mandatory for every criminal to pay for counselling for a crime like this.

*The compensation is no way a substitute for an appropriate jail sentence.

Thanks Milli! I will read it. Poor girl I hope she gets the help and support she needs. I hope she knows that most of Ireland think this sentence is wrong.

Capt'n Midnight

Do we still use the barbaric valuing of a womans earnings to determine 'compensation' ?

also compensation is means tested on the guilty party and it can affect the sentence :mad:
and guilty party can contest the amount of compensation after sentencing

From May www.rcni.ie/uploads/RCNILegalRecommendationsPositionPaperMay12.pdf

There are several difficulties about this statutory scheme from the point of view of the
victim of crime:
- Section 6 of the Criminal Justice Act 1993 is not mandatory. There is no
obligation on the sentencing judge and/or the prosecuting lawyer, to raise the
issue of compensation of the complainant by the convicted person.
RCNI Position Paper on Legal Recommendations from “Rape and Justice in Ireland”
15
- If compensation is raised at sentence, or the judge considers it of his/her own
motion, he/she must also consider the means of the convicted person who must
pay it. While compensation under this Section can cover a wide range of losses, it
can be paid in instalments, and the convicted person can apply at any time after
the sentence to have those instalments reduced, or even abolished, if his/her
means diminish.
- These limitations mean that it is questionable whether any compensation
payable to the complainant under this Section for the damage caused to him/her
by the crime could be described as “fair and appropriate”
29
, or as “adequate”
30
,
given the extensive and varied nature of the damage caused by sexual crime;
- Section 6 takes effect before sentence is passed and therefore, is likely to impact
on the sentence handed down.

...
However, we think that there is a danger under the present
compensation arrangements that some sex offenders may in effect succeed in buying
themselves out of a jail sentence. It cannot be right in principle that convicted persons with
more money should have a means of avoiding imprisonment which is denied to those with
less money.

...
In the longer term, a statutory scheme should be established, by which a victim of crime
may access some amount of compensation from the State where a person is convicted in
the criminal courts of a crime of violence, but has no means to pay compensation to their
victim. This scheme should operate quickly and simply, and it should not be necessary for
the victim to instruct a lawyer to represent them.

RED PASSION

bhovaspack wrote: »

It should also be mandatory for the aggressor to change residence, at his own expense. Living just down the road from the person who raped her is another torment I'm sure the woman could do without. Hopefully he will be made to feel very unwelcome by other residents.

he would move to another neighbourhood and they wouldn't know him, say good morning to your new neighbour each day, kids playing on the lawn or visting his kids, or sleepovers etc etc and you would not see the danger of this person or know his past. when robert hollihan died in midleton, cork a few years back, the people there said the amount of paedophiles living there unknown to the neighbours was in the high 20's, it was the guards visiting their homes about the case which outed them.

better the devil you know...

Raiser

I can't understand this - surely when justice demands punishment the material wealth of the guilty party shouldn't enable him to practically walk free - its 24 weeks in jail - Will he even go to a real jail or is he to attend a posh open prison for posh sexual criminals?

DPP needs to address this fiasco - What utter disrespect to that poor woman.

RED PASSION

Raiser wrote: »

I can't understand this - surely when justice demands punishment the material wealth of the guilty party shouldn't enable him to practically walk free - its 24 weeks in jail - Will he even go to a real jail or is he to attend a posh open prison for posh sexual criminals?

DPP needs to address this fiasco - What utter disrespect to that poor woman.

he is not going to a hard jail cell, probably something similar to the quinn guy, a easy going prison, no hard criminals etc, and be out in less than 6 mths. crazy :mad:

Defiler Of The Coffin

Dean09 wrote: »

Well I hope he's bum-fúcked every day he's locked up.
And the judge is a disgrace and should be fired given his history of lenient sentences.
What an absolute joke. This place gets worse by the day. :mad:

So you hope he is raped? You're right, this place is getting worse by the day

Canard

I live right beside Griffith Avenue... >_>

What a disgusting kick in the teeth to that poor woman, but fair play to her for seeing it all the way through and making sure he at least got some punishment, even if it's an absolutely disgraceful one. Do these judges have no empathy?

darragh o meara

Seen as its AH if it were myself or a family member I know what id do with with that 75k, I'd hire a hitman and be done with this scum the minute he leaves prison.

RED PASSION

darragh o meara wrote: »

Seen as its AH if it were myself or a family member I know what id do with with that 75k, I'd hire a hitman and be done with this scum the minute he leaves prison.

but you would go to jail for hiring a hitman and further destroy your family, i know where the anger comes from, he should get a decade at least. 6 months, she got the life sentence of pain

suicide_circus

JustAThought wrote: »

It's sinister, depraved and disgusting that a young girl walking home from a night out, can be stalked,rugby tackled to the ground, dragged into. Garden, her clothed ripped off her and be raped; and the convicted rapist; Anthony Lyons of Griffith Avenue; only get 6 months with 5 1/2 years suspended because he is of good character & I'd unlikely to re- offend. What the f¥€k.

I recall Judge Herbert some years back also basically letting a convicted rapist off Scott free " because the woman wasn't rely hurt".

I asking seem to recall a Judge Curtain who got away with having thousands of images of hardcore child pornography on his PC & got off with full pension & retirement because the warrant was " out if dTe" by a day.

I agree with what another poster said; who did rapist Anthony Lyons know.

I wonder if he sold the new government Jet to the Irish Government or was part of that?

Today's Judge; Judge Desmond should be struck off for this disgusting mess. He has put rape victims back in the 1950's with his implied attitude . 75k for a rape from a multimillionaire. And max 6
Months in jail; it's just depraved.

That he was caught at all was a miracle ; to have a witness to the rape was extraordinary . For all this to happen, & this outcome is just horrifying .

We should all be writing to the DPP to object & to whomever the minister is. Many rapists reoffend. I wonder whose daughter or wife will be next. Only he won't be so stupid as to rape his neighbour next time.

We should all be pressing for Megans Law to be brought in, to Ireland. Too many women disappearing, unresolved rapes, and paedophiles & sex offenders creeping around & watching our children.

What about the lives of the innocent & the rights of children & the innocent .

We
Need to stop protecting scum
And start demanding real punishments as a deterrent.
Enough of the bleeding heart liberalism.

Whose child or wife is next.

He was convicted of sexual assault not rape.

pickarooney

Can she refuse the cash settlement? What then?

SocSocPol

JustAThought wrote: »

It's sinister, depraved and disgusting that a young girl walking home from a night out, can be stalked,rugby tackled to the ground, dragged into. Garden, her clothed ripped off her and be raped; and the convicted rapist; Anthony Lyons of Griffith Avenue; only get 6 months with 5 1/2 years suspended because he is of good character & I'd unlikely to re- offend. What the f¥€k.

I recall Judge Herbert some years back also basically letting a convicted rapist off Scott free " because the woman wasn't rely hurt".

I asking seem to recall a Judge Curtain who got away with having thousands of images of hardcore child pornography on his PC & got off with full pension & retirement because the warrant was " out if dTe" by a day.

I agree with what another poster said; who did rapist Anthony Lyons know.

I wonder if he sold the new government Jet to the Irish Government or was part of that?

Today's Judge; Judge Desmond should be struck off for this disgusting mess. He has put rape victims back in the 1950's with his implied attitude . 75k for a rape from a multimillionaire. And max 6
Months in jail; it's just depraved.

That he was caught at all was a miracle ; to have a witness to the rape was extraordinary . For all this to happen, & this outcome is just horrifying .

We should all be writing to the DPP to object & to whomever the minister is. Many rapists reoffend. I wonder whose daughter or wife will be next. Only he won't be so stupid as to rape his neighbour next time.

We should all be pressing for Megans Law to be brought in, to Ireland. Too many women disappearing, unresolved rapes, and paedophiles & sex offenders creeping around & watching our children.

What about the lives of the innocent & the rights of children & the innocent .

We
Need to stop protecting scum
And start demanding real punishments as a deterrent.
Enough of the bleeding heart liberalism.

Whose child or wife is next.

I have no time for either the judge or the Anthony Lyons. However your post is highly inaccurate in several respects.
Firstly Lyons was neither charged nor convicted of rape, so lets just deal with what he was charged with instead of blowing it up even further. He was charged and rightly convicted after pleading not guilty, of sexual assault and in my opinion should have got the 6 years with nothing suspended.
While I believe he was treated differently to others because of his social and financial standing, I am unware as to how you can claim that he is a "Multi-Millionaire", and your claims re the Government Jet are simply childish.
With regard to your attempt to scaremonger by claiming that many "rapists" re-offend, in fact in the only study into recidivism ever carried out in Ireland it was evidenced that the LOWEST recidivism rate was for those convicted of sexual offences.
Since according to the Rape Crisis Network the overwhelming majority of sexual assaults are carried out by family members or people well known to the victim, a "Megans Law" would serve zero purpose, other than to feed the blood lust stirred up by misinformed and hysterical posts such as yours.
Again I deplore the Judges sentencing of Lyons, I believe he should have recieved a lengthy sentence and a period of Court ordered supervision, but I don't believe that hysterical, ill thought out, and highly innacurate posting and comment does anything to advance the arguements.

bbam

RED PASSION wrote: »

but you would go to jail for hiring a hitman and further destroy your family, i know where the anger comes from, he should get a decade at least. 6 months, she got the life sentence of pain

You'll only go to jail if your caught. And then it would be an east trip anyway.

Fuinseog

"There is little doubt that a very serious wrong has been done on her by a person who has expressed remorse, has been hitherto of good character, is well regarded and is unlikely to reoffend"

Judge Hogan