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Reasons guests may have to avoid church weddings

Foggy.nelson

pwurple wrote: »

Foggy.nelson wrote: »

Im going to a wedding next month, I'm not working at the moment and my savings are gone on general bills and other stuff. I'm expected to get a present even tho I can't afford it, I've been told money will be grand. It's my other halves family, her parents said I don't need to(being nice) other half pressuring me to get one. I'd be just to go to the afters, as I'll be standing around like a tool while the family members do there stuff , also I'm being made go to the church which is something I'm against expecting guests to do in this day of age... Weddings make people selfish if u ask me

Don't go to that wedding. Seriously. I do not know why the heck people go to events if they don't want to be there. If I can't afford to go somewhere I do not go. Simple as. And what's the issue with the ceremony? You want to skip the actual wedding part and just go for the food? Charming altogether.

I think we can all agree that both of these two things are bad manners:
1) expecting a gift at your wedding.
2) not giving a gift for a wedding you attend.

I have no want to go to a mass, if it was a ceremony if have no problem being there to see the vows and wedding stuff but excuse me for not wanting to listen to the word of god, and it's not always as simple as go or don't go, sometimes u have to go for family etc

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pwurple

Foggy.nelson wrote: »

I have no want to go to a mass, if it was a ceremony if have no problem being there to see the vows and wedding stuff but excuse me for not wanting to listen to the word of god, and it's not always as simple as go or don't go, sometimes u have to go for family etc

I don't think they will be trying to convert you on the sneaky... Non-christians won't be pointed out and laughed at. Seriously, please don't go with that attitude. I would have hated someone to go to my wedding and not wanted to be there. You mention other halves so I assume you are married. Were there people at yours who you thought didn't want to be there? Do something else that day, or else start appreciating that they are accepting you as part of the family. Plenty of wifes and husbands are completely rejected by their in-laws.

See the discussion above about providing a top table or else elope for a good example of that in the making...

Foggy.nelson

pwurple wrote: »

Foggy.nelson wrote: »

I have no want to go to a mass, if it was a ceremony if have no problem being there to see the vows and wedding stuff but excuse me for not wanting to listen to the word of god, and it's not always as simple as go or don't go, sometimes u have to go for family etc

I don't think they will be trying to convert you on the sneaky... Non-christians won't be pointed out and laughed at. Seriously, please don't go with that attitude. I would have hated someone to go to my wedding and not wanted to be there. You mention other halves so I assume you are married. Were there people at yours who you thought didn't want to be there? Do something else that day, or else start appreciating that they are accepting you as part of the family. Plenty of wifes and husbands are completely rejected by their in-laws.

See the discussion above about providing a top table or else elope for a good example of that in the making...

I'll be going to the whole thing, I can't just refuse to go, I'm just not big on the wedding business. I'll be enjoying it come night fall I'm sure but I do no people directly affected by the catholic church and I've been to non religious funerals because if such, I think a note at the end of the invite should say if you feel uneasy about goin to the church etc then meet up or pictures whenever.

rainbowtrout

Foggy.nelson wrote: »

I have no want to go to a mass, if it was a ceremony if have no problem being there to see the vows and wedding stuff but excuse me for not wanting to listen to the word of god, and it's not always as simple as go or don't go, sometimes u have to go for family etc

I'm an atheist and the way I see it is that my friends/family have chosen to celebrate their wedding in a particular way. I don't see it as me participating in a mass, if anything I just tune out for the prayers etc, and just listen to the important bits. I'm not being asked to actively participate in anything religious, just attend a wedding ceremony. I'd say the same if I had a friend of another faith who chose to get married in a mosque/synagogue, I wouldn't believe in that either but would still attend out of respect for my friend.

TheTurk1972

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I'm an atheist and the way I see it is that my friends/family have chosen to celebrate their wedding in a particular way. I don't see it as me participating in a mass, if anything I just tune out for the prayers etc, and just listen to the important bits. I'm not being asked to actively participate in anything religious, just attend a wedding ceremony. I'd say the same if I had a friend of another faith who chose to get married in a mosque/synagogue, I wouldn't believe in that either but would still attend out of respect for my friend.

I would be much the same. Total atheist. I'll even stand up. kneel down, bless myself or whatever because I respect the beliefs of the people i am in the church with. I'm in their domain not mine. I can't get over how some Atheists really go out of their way to be offended by other peoples beliefs.
Makes them worse than even cult members if you ask me.

Foggy.nelson

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I'm an atheist and the way I see it is that my friends/family have chosen to celebrate their wedding in a particular way. I don't see it as me participating in a mass, if anything I just tune out for the prayers etc, and just listen to the important bits. I'm not being asked to actively participate in anything religious, just attend a wedding ceremony. I'd say the same if I had a friend of another faith who chose to get married in a mosque/synagogue, I wouldn't believe in that either but would still attend out of respect for my friend.

I would be much the same. Total atheist. I'll even stand up. kneel down, bless myself or whatever because I respect the beliefs of the people i am in the church with. I'm in their domain not mine. I can't get over how some Atheists really go out of their way to be offended by other peoples beliefs.
Makes them worse than even cult members if you ask me.

Im more getting at how people who have been abused by the catholic church who might not want to be in the church. And even family members etc who might not want to be there

rainbowtrout

Foggy.nelson wrote: »

Im more getting at how people who have been abused by the catholic church who might not want to be in the church. And even family members etc who might not want to be there

That's fair enough, but staying away won't change the fact that your friends/family have chosen this way to celebrate their marriage. Vegans don't stay away from weddings because beef or salmon is on the menu and it goes against their beliefs that their friends eat meat. They just go for the veggie option. Not trying to belittle what you are saying, but attending is celebrating the couple's marriage, not a show of support for the catholic church.

iguana

rainbowtrout wrote: »

That's fair enough, but staying away won't change the fact that your friends/family have chosen this way to celebrate their marriage. Vegans don't stay away from weddings because beef or salmon is on the menu and it goes against their beliefs that their friends eat meat. They just go for the veggie option. Not trying to belittle what you are saying, but attending is celebrating the couple's marriage, not a show of support for the catholic church.

I can see what he's getting at. I've been to 2 weddings where as the day went on it was very obvious that a guest (each someone from the bride's childhood) was having a reaction that could be described as a form of post traumatic stress. In both cases the guest in question was someone who was abused in that particular church and being in the building for the first time in over a decade was not something they were able to cope with despite thinking they could on the lead up to the day.

While I think people should have a church wedding if that is their preference it may be worth bearing in mind that for some people it's not as simple as 'live and let live' when it comes to being in a (particular) church. On the other hand I don't doubt that similar reactions can happen if someone is faced with a long avoided relative that they are avoiding for similar reasons. And it's not really the bride and groom's responsibility to know what secret trauma each and every guest might be carrying and magically know to avoid anything that might trigger bad memories.

iguana

Split off from other thread as it had gone off topic.

TheTurk1972

Foggy.nelson wrote: »

Im more getting at how people who have been abused by the catholic church who might not want to be in the church. And even family members etc who might not want to be there

I have been there too. I have had friends abused and family members abused by a member of the church. But I know that not all people involved in a particular religion are responsible. In fact most of them aren't.
Get over yourself. Use your head and don't be looking to be offended.

Foggy.nelson

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

Get over yourself. Use your head and don't be looking to be offended.

No one is looking to be offended, its a discussion. What do you actually mean get over it?? How am I even offended??

pwurple

Oh for goodness sake. I know people who have been abused by their own uncles or fathers. Should I ban all men from my life and my childrens, just in case?

I don't see any reason to put a note in everyones invite saying if you have a problem with stories being read to you in a building with a pointy roof, better meet for photos instead. It is the height of childishness to expect this. I have been to weddings of various faiths, and I show the appropriate respect at each of them. To do otherwise is to insult the couple.

Show some respect to the couple who are including you in something personal to them, and if you can't find it in yourself to manage that, then Don't fookin Go to any of it. Skipping the ceremony and appearing for the free food is obnoxious behaviour.

rainbowtrout

iguana wrote: »

I can see what he's getting at. I've been to 2 weddings where as the day went on it was very obvious that a guest (each someone from the bride's childhood) was having a reaction that could be described as a form of post traumatic stress. In both cases the guest in question was someone who was abused in that particular church and being in the building for the first time in over a decade was not something they were able to cope with despite thinking they could on the lead up to the day.

While I think people should have a church wedding if that is their preference it may be worth bearing in mind that for some people it's not as simple as 'live and let live' when it comes to being in a (particular) church. On the other hand I don't doubt that similar reactions can happen if someone is faced with a long avoided relative that they are avoiding for similar reasons. And it's not really the bride and groom's responsibility to know what secret trauma each and every guest might be carrying and magically know to avoid anything that might trigger bad memories.

That's quite a specific example and to be honest something that has never really crossed my mind with regard to weddings but I agree it's not the responsibility of the bride and groom to know all of these things and be able to accommodate each of their guests accordingly.

If the guest in question has had an experience which was personally traumatic but it's not something that they wish to disclose to the bride and groom then they should just give some excuse as to why they can't attend the church part. No one will be all that bothered anyway. There are always loads of people milling around at a wedding and people coming late that you don't see at the church even though they were there. On the other hand if it's a more general dislike of the catholic church where the invited guest hasn't been personally traumatised by it and it's more about protesting against the church I'd be inclined to say just go and attend to show support for the couple.

Gatica

I am not Catholic and I find the abuse suffered at the hands of religious leaders shocking.. However, I've gone to the weddings and funerals of family and friends at the Church. I'm not there or not-there to make a statement or otherwise, I'm simply showing support for the family who's grieving at a funeral and the couple when they're getting married. There's no need to take part in the ceremony at all. I sit at the back, I stand with everyone, I don't bother kneeling, I don't go up for communion, I shake hands for peace with ppl around me... I choose to do so, but I'm sure if I didn't and just sat they wouldn't be offended.
I have had no personal bad experience at the hands of the church, but if I had and didn't want to go, I'd simply not go to the ceremony, and not make a big deal about my friends choosing to marry in a church.
It's just as, if not more, selfish to expect them to forego their religious beliefs or upbringing for the sake of the atheists in their group of friends, as it is for them to expect abused people to sit through a ceremony in the church.

I'm sure if you didn't go they'd not even notice... there's already so many at the ceremony and no one's gonna remember who was or wasn't there. It's not like it's an intentional slight on their part. Yes, it generally would be a bit crass to miss the actual ceremony (the most important part of the day, in my opinion) and show up for dinner. However, as already pointed out by Iguana there are circumstances where this is understandable.

Sleepy

I find churches to be disgusting places that represent a disgusting organisation but I'll still go to them for a friends wedding. I bring my camera and occupy myself trying to get nice shots of the couple getting married which I find helps me ignore the surroundings (and I usually end up with at least 2/3 good shots to give to the couple afterwards).

krankykitty

I'm not religious and when I'm invited to a church wedding of a Catholic friend, I will go along and sit & stand with the others (however I won't kneel or otherwise get involved). I find apart from the actual wedding vows bit, the whole thing is long and boring, though if my friends are Catholic and actually believe in it, I'm happy to support them.

However, I find myself getting a bit irritated when attending the church wedding of people I know never step foot inside a church and who don't actually believe in God, the religion or indeed don't really mean the vows they're saying (bringing up kids as catholic etc). It makes the whole thing a bit "charadey" and it makes the whole experience more of a chore, for me anyway. In situations like this the ceremony is my least favourite part of the day, whereas when I'm at a ceremony that's true to the people who are getting married (be that religious or civil) I would enjoy the ceremony part.

analucija

I find ceremonies of any kind boring. I'm an atheist but I have no problem stepping in a church or any other religious building. I'll attend a wedding or a funeral of somebody who is important to me anywhere. It doesn't bother me if they are religious or not.

I find funny people finding churches disgusting, considering there are often some superb examples of art in them. I would consider not going into St. Peters basilica or Blue Mosque for example because they are religious buildings silly at best.

Sleepy

analucija - the Vatican is the most stomach churning place I've ever been. Precisely *because* it's full of so much beautiful art, precious metals and jewels.

The deity the occupants of that building claim to worship would never have allowed such an accumulation of wealth in his/her/it's name: it would have been shared amongst the poor, the meek, the needy etc. That the same bunch of deluded old men that control such vast wealth spend their time preaching to others as to how their lives should be lived whilst sitting on enough wealth to end world hunger is unforgivable (and that's without even getting into many of the crimes they've committed / covered up within those walls).

analucija

Sleepy wrote: »

analucija - the Vatican is the most stomach churning place I've ever been. Precisely *because* it's full of so much beautiful art, precious metals and jewels.

The deity the occupants of that building claim to worship would never have allowed such an accumulation of wealth in his/her/it's name: it would have been shared amongst the poor, the meek, the needy etc. That the same bunch of deluded old men that control such vast wealth spend their time preaching to others as to how their lives should be lived whilst sitting on enough wealth to end world hunger is unforgivable (and that's without even getting into many of the crimes they've committed / covered up within those walls).

And here I thought that art should be judged by the artistic value and not by the morals of the people who paid or ordered it. Is Pieta less of a masterpiece because of its subject or its location?

Sleepy

No, but it would be just as much of a masterpiece in a private or national collection were the Church to live up to the morality it preaches and sell it to feed starving children / donate to retro-viral research to undo some of the damage their stance on contraception has helped fuel in sub-saharan Africa etc.

The art is beautiful (and whilst arguably "priceless", it would find a price at auction). It's ownership by a religious organisation preaching about charity and the "meek" inheriting the earth whilst protecting paedophiles is repugnant.

Bubblefett

When my boyfriend's sister got married their aunt didn't attend because the ceremony was in the church that she got married in (she is now devoiced) and she found it too painful.

Some people won't attend services for various reasons and that's fine. But to specifically put on the invite that it's okay not to attend if you have personal reasons seems a bit silly to me.
If you don't want to go to something for good reason (be it personal or financial) fine, tell the parties involved and move on. Don't expect it to be written down

lazygal

krankykitty wrote: »

However, I find myself getting a bit irritated when attending the church wedding of people I know never step foot inside a church and who don't actually believe in God, the religion or indeed don't really mean the vows they're saying (bringing up kids as catholic etc). It makes the whole thing a bit "charadey" and it makes the whole experience more of a chore, for me anyway. In situations like this the ceremony is my least favourite part of the day, whereas when I'm at a ceremony that's true to the people who are getting married (be that religious or civil) I would enjoy the ceremony part.

This wrecks my head too, and TBH I do judge such people for having a church wedding when I know the couple hasn't attended church. I've seen this with other denominations too though, not just Catholic couples. I find it really difficult to take a ceremony like that seriously, when most of such services have nothing to do with the couple getting married and more often than not are held in the church because its a nice building or their parents would be upset to not have a church wedding.

That said, I was one of the first of my friends to have a non church wedding and at least two other couples have decided to go the same route having seen how much more personal and meaningful our ceremony was, so at least some people have a bit of integrity.

analucija

Sleepy wrote: »

No, but it would be just as much of a masterpiece in a private or national collection were the Church to live up to the morality it preaches and sell it to feed starving children / donate to retro-viral research to undo some of the damage their stance on contraception has helped fuel in sub-saharan Africa etc.

The art is beautiful (and whilst arguably "priceless", it would find a price at auction). It's ownership by a religious organisation preaching about charity and the "meek" inheriting the earth whilst protecting paedophiles is repugnant.

Again that has nothing to do with the object itself. The building or art in it is not the preaching or the actions of the organisation. It might be the medium for it but you don't label tv disgusting if you don't like the news. It is still possible to admire the skill and craftsmanship in the church without condoning the organisation.

Sleepy

I'm afraid I disagree. I can admire all the artistic merits of the contents of the building but I can't separate that from the institution.

El_Dangeroso

lazygal wrote: »

This wrecks my head too, and TBH I do judge such people for having a church wedding when I know the couple hasn't attended church. I've seen this with other denominations too though, not just Catholic couples. I find it really difficult to take a ceremony like that seriously, when most of such services have nothing to do with the couple getting married and more often than not are held in the church because its a nice building or their parents would be upset to not have a church wedding.

That said, I was one of the first of my friends to have a non church wedding and at least two other couples have decided to go the same route having seen how much more personal and meaningful our ceremony was, so at least some people have a bit of integrity.

Then you must think I'm a terrible person, both my boyfriend and I are athiests but are having a church wedding because it means a lot to my mother and given how much she has sacrificed for me it is my 'wedding gift' for her.

We're paring back the ceromony to just the wedding rites, no mass, and a family friend is the priest so it will still be very meaningful for us I hope.

lazygal

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Then you must think I'm a terrible person, both my boyfriend and I are athiests but are having a church wedding because it means a lot to my mother and given how much she has sacrificed for me it is my 'wedding gift' for her.

We're paring back the ceromony to just the wedding rites, no mass, and a family friend is the priest so it will still be very meaningful for us I hope.

I still don't get it TBH. I presume your mother had a wedding? So why does she need to have a say in yours? And you make serious promises in a Catholic wedding, even without the mass, to raise children catholic and have a marriage based on its rules, such as no artificial contraception. Why would you and your partner, as atheists, start married life by telling lies and making promises you won't keep? Are you going to perpetuate your mother's control by christening any children you might have?

As nice as it is to take your mother's feelings into account, I still cannot understand how two adults wouldn't be able to marry in a manner more suitable for their beliefs or lack thereof, and instead choose to start married life in an institute they don't believe in. I'm sure the priest is a grand fella, but how could any ceremony that's in direct conflict with people who are atheist mean anything to you?

pwurple

We are non-believers as well. A-la-carte 100%. I go to funerals, weddings, christmas mass. We didn't have a church wedding, but we did have a priest. I would be fairy annoyed if someone told me our ceremony wasn't personal or meaningful. It was.

We went for a priest partially because my husbands mum and my dad are religious, and it meant a lot to them. It was even slightly trailblazing the other direction to go that way, as my husband siblings were either married in civil ceremonies, or long term partners and children with no marriage. None of mine were married. Eyebrows were raised that we were going that way.

iguana

I've deleted the off topic postings. I made this thread for the discussion of why people may not want to attend church weddings. So many threads turn into this debate I thought it would be helpful to have a thread this debate can happen on instead of taking other threads off-topic.
If people want to discuss other religious ceremonies take it to the appropriate forums, this forum only deals with weddings and civil partnerships.

Sleepy

pwurple wrote: »

I would be fairy annoyed if someone told me our ceremony wasn't personal or meaningful.

I think the problem many of us have with this is that if you're making vows you don't have any intention of taking seriously in one breath and then making solemn ones with your next, it somewhat cheapens / diminishes the sincerity of the latter vow no matter how seriously it's being made.

Having a church wedding as a non-believer, to me, is allowing societal pressure to conform to diminish the most important part of the wedding day.

Gatica

I think no one can judge how meaningful a ceremony is to someone. Most of my friends are not regular church goers, they've all had church weddings, whether for themselves or their families. I've always enjoyed attending them even if I don't fully take part, the hour didn't really drag and it looked very pretty.
One of our friends was atheist and said it to the priest so for the part of the ceremony that says that you promise to raise the kids Catholic, she said "he does" (about her partner)

They said they'd looked into having a civil ceremony but didn't want two separate ceremonies, registrar office and some humanist one after. They wanted one wedding, one ceremony and couldn't do this on the Saturday with the HSE registrar. Unfortunately having the standard church wedding was just a lot simpler.
None of us minded. Don't think anyone in our group had any strong feelings about being inside the Church building. Some of our Asian friends thought it was really interesting to see an Irish Church wedding. No one concentrated on judging as to why they were having their ceremony there etc...

pwurple

Oh for goodness sake. I had a massive post addressing this already deleted Sleepy and Gatica, and my main point has been snipped from above.

I am personally insulted by many of the posts here, but my right to reply has been removed, so I don't know what to say.

The exact choice I made, has been called:

"charadey" and it makes the whole experience more of a chore

find it really difficult to take a ceremony like that seriously

how could any ceremony <snip> mean anything to you

it cheapens / diminishes the sincerity of the latter

This is all offensive and insulting stuff that I'm taking fairly personally, as we are talking about my wedding here. But, it's also off topic. No idea why my responses were removed, but that stuff left. Apologies iguana, I don't mean to diss the modding, but I'm feeling hard done by here.