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Sean Quinn - A man more sinned against than sinning?

musings

I've just watched on the news that Sean Quinn's son has been sent to prison for contempt of Court.

In 2008 Sean Quinn was trying his best to buy over the fraudulent Anglo Irish Bank. At the time, he believed that this bank was a sound investment and that he should purchase shares in the bank. No doubt he believed all the hype about this wonder bank and thought that buying it over would be the jewel in a glittering business career.

Meanwhile Seanie Fitz & Co. were inside cooking the books and swapping money with Permanent TSB trying to make the bank look solvent...when as we know it was far from it.

Sean Quinn was bankrupted by Anglo management's fraudulent behaviour.

Am I the only one who wonders why Sean Quinn is being hauled through the courts and nothing has happened ANY of the bankers who mislead him into investing in the bank?

Yes, he shouldn't have gambled all his wealth on it....but at the end of the day, he was sold a pup, which bankrupted him.

I feel sympathy for the man.

I also find it deeply suspicious that Quinn insurance was found to fail solvency rules as soon as the government needed cash and generously intervened to take over this cash cow and "protect consumers"

Is this just a state sponsored witch hunt of arguably our greatest Entrepreneur?

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Callan57

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Have to laugh at this. I'm sure Quinn appreciates the support up in his mansion that you'll be paying for - that is if you ever even pay any sort of meaningful tax, which I doubt.

If you had read my post you would see that I did not give support to anyone in any mansion. I have little sympathy for the Quinns but my point was that if there was no guarantee I personally (and everyother taxpayer) would not be impacted by the Quinns financial games and being honest about it I would have been rooting for anyone fighting the banks.
The FF/Greens putting the Irish taxpayer on the line for the debts of Anglo is the big scandal.

As for you comment on my tax paying record .... as you know absolutely nothing about me I will treat that comment with the contempt it deserves. :eek:

[Deleted User]

fran17 wrote: »

no sean quinn is paying for his mistakes and thats fine by me but he and fitzpatrick are two very differant people.he may have lied to try and save his empire but that other bastard lied and held a gun to the head of the country

But Sean Quinn isnt paying for his mistakes, hence this thread.

A Dub in Glasgo

Quinn is just like the other feckless cnuts in Ireland. Those who are greedy bastards and then expect to teflon their responsibilities and accountibilities when the going gets tough. They expect the taxpayer to hold their debt when it goes wrong and pocket billions when it goes right.

Sympathy for that cnut of a man and his family? No fecking chance and all the sycophants who do his pleading... get a fecking grip on reality and cop yourselves on.

[Deleted User]

So what money does he owe now? I've been out of Ireland for ages.. I know he bought loads of Anglo. Was this his own cash and now he's being chased for Anglo losses because of his shareholding. Or was it loaned money that he now can't pay?

mcmoustache

crazy cabbage wrote: »

Do we really nead 3 treads about sean quinn in AH?

Yes.
Yes, we do.

logonmar

[HTML]In the eighties AIB was profitable but ran ICI into the ground and required a massive bailout

Same happened with PMPA, breaking all the rules and other bail-out, there was a levy on every insurance policy to cover this
Doesn't matter if you never dealt with PMPA, you still pay[/HTML]

Hell of a difference between ICI, PMPA & Quinn.
In the case of PMPA they went bust due to lack of proper management at the very top. The top person in PMPA (Joe Moore) never made any personal gain from abusing the companies funds nor did he raid the insurance funds the way Quinn did. In fact Moore kept investing in PMPA shares so when the company went bust he lost everything.
Misguided? Yes
Incompetent? Yes
Crook? No
ICI was a different type of debacle entirely and was a case of AIB (bankers once again!) deciding they could expand into a new financial sector. However claims reserves were understated and this precipitated the collapse. Again there was no evidence of anyone making personal gain nor of abusing funds. They masked their trading position until found out.

On the other hand Quinn used nearly €300 of Quinn Insurance funds to support other parts of his group and was fined €3 million by the Financial Regulator.

Quinn grew Quinn Direct by charging uneconomic rates and as someone in the industry said to me a few years ago that
'Quinn Direct are either the luckiest company in the world in terms of their claims experience
or
EVERY established company were totally inept because the premiums being charged wouldn't even cover the cost of the claims based on actuarial evidence even before overheads etc. were taken into account'

No doubt Quinn provided lots of jobs, that were badly needed, in the Cavan area but fact is he did so in way that was eventually going to become a levy on the taxpayer.
Just as happened in PMPA a company growing rapidly can cloak their true position as their is a time between getting the ever growing premium and the company settling historical claims. However in every similar case worldwide the problem starts to develop when growth plateaus out.

Bottom line is that Quinn is far from a hero and was always looking after himself, family etc. so nobody should feel sympathy for yje predicament he now finds himself in

King of Kings

bubblypop wrote: »

i defy anyone who felt hard done by, by a bank run by conmen not to try and hide their assets for their family from this 'bank'

nothingto do withbeing honest.

run by conmen perhaps but you'll find Quinn and his secret gamblings on the share price and chasing his losses caused the anglo share price to collapse when other investors drove the price down cos there was an unknown (at the time) clown out there who was chasing losses for 25% of the bank's worth and they could make a killing betting against said clown.

fran17 wrote: »

no sean quinn is paying for his mistakes and thats fine by me but he and fitzpatrick are two very differant people.he may have lied to try and save his empire but that other bastard lied and held a gun to the head of the country

actually you'll find Fitzpatrick (whatever he did at anglo) has actually manned up , paid the price taking bankrupcy in ireland at the 12 years and lost it all. Sean Quinn is trying to weasel out of it like the dirty weasel that he is. First claiming his actually resident in the north and now the recent weaselling and hiding assets,

Have you ever looked in Quinn's past and his shoddy practices...a good reference would be matt coopers book "who really run's ireland" read the chapter on quinn and come back and tell us "he is a grand fella".

*anybody who mentions the trip to the euros is an idiot cos that was paid for by his buddy, lucky for him one of best pals is a billionaire.

christmas2012

actually you'll find Fitzpatrick (whatever he did at anglo) has actually manned up

there both lying fraudulent weasels i cant believe ordinary people would defend these guys..honestly un real.

King of Kings

christmas2012 wrote: »

there both lying fraudulent weasels i cant believe ordinary people would defend these guys..honestly un real.

you misunderstand me
I don't defend him at all but in a comparision between him and quinn , at least he took his punishment.

In fact compared to all the people who jumped to the UK to weasel out of irish law he looks more contrite but at no point I ever defended him. .

Lord Trollington

After everything that has gone on in this country over the last 4/5 years. I don't need to list them.

From Bertie Ahern to Sean Fitz to the bank guarantee.

If the Quinns are the first people to be jailed over the whole debacle then we truly are a disgraceful nation.

christmas2012

looks like sean quinn jnr did a runner so much for owning up to responsibilties and facing the music..

BornToKill

Lord Trollington wrote: »

If the Quinns are the first people to be jailed over the whole debacle then we truly are a disgraceful nation.

If the Quinns are the first people to be jailed over the whole debacle then that's a start.

Happyman42

It will be fascinating to see what's going on here. What's the bets that Sean Quinn claims that the nephew has done a runner with the cash? Does a few months in jail and because there is no money to chase anymore he walks into the sunset. Or has the nephew cut and done a solo run? It's begining to look like the plot of a crime blockbuster novel.

BornToKill

christmas2012 wrote: »

looks like sean quinn jnr did a runner so much for owning up to responsibilties and facing the music..

Well they took him off to jail yesterday so what happened? Did he hop the wall overnight? Nothing on the news yet about the escape.

A Dub in Glasgo

I think he is talking about the nephew

stimpson

Lord Trollington wrote: »

If the Quinns are the first people to be jailed over the whole debacle then we truly are a disgraceful nation.

Except he was jailed for contempt of court. He was caught on video saying that he would happily lie in court. A few months in Portlaoise might put some manners on him.

jack presley

peasant wrote: »

Next someone will tell us that Bbbbbertie is a Gentleman, a fine upstanding citizen and basically just misunderstood

What is it with the fanboy-ism for crooks in this country?

I bet if Quinn ran in the next general election, he'd probably get voted in.

Delancey

jack presley wrote: »

I bet if Quinn ran in the next general election, he'd probably get voted in.

Doubtless he would if he ran in a border constituency just like the morons in Tipperary who vote in Michael Lowry despite his actions as Minister potentially costing the taxpayer billions or the imbeciles in Wexford who elected Mick Wallace despite the charges hanging over him of pocketing his workers pension deductions.
We do really get the politicians we deserve.

an offshore entity

Happyman42 wrote: »

It will be fascinating to see what's going on here. What's the bets that Sean Quinn claims that the nephew has done a runner with the cash? Does a few months in jail and because there is no money to chase anymore he walks into the sunset. Or has the nephew cut and done a solo run? It's begining to look like the plot of a crime blockbuster novel.

Now, this certainly would be a novel that I would buy. My thoughts on this one is that the Quinn family have a 'mastermind' who is resist/prolonging the outcome of this case, in an attempt to take this one to the European supreme court. This is the most favourable outcome for the Quinn family as any bias will be eliminated and there is a genuine possibilty that the flaws of Anglo will be uncovered.

Can anyone actually believe how watertight Anglo's evidence has been to date? I am amazed.

desertcircus

Lord Trollington wrote: »

If the Quinns are the first people to be jailed over the whole debacle then we truly are a disgraceful nation.

If you violate a court order you're going to get to jail pretty quickly. The Quinns aren't going to jail for what was done in the boom, they're going to jail for breaking the law right now.

donegal1992

Sean Quinn like many Irish businesses wouldn't be so successful if it wasn't for their government sponsored monopolistic tendencies. Now the government are no longer returning his calls cos it's bad business for them to do so.
Yes Sean Quinn is a scapegoat - not because he doesn't deserve what he got ( what goes around comes around ) rather because it is easy to go down this route than to prosecute Anglo directors.

It is 4 years at least since this whole debacle occurred and still no banker has been prosecuted - it's scandalous and we Irish deserve the consequences when this happens again in 10 years time and we have no legislation to stop it.

Curly Judge

For all his faults-and they are many-I cannot bring myself to damn a man who started his career loading a lorry with a hand shovel.
The real fact is that it will not be the Clare Dalys or the Joe Higgins or the Pretty Boy Barretts of this country who'll get the economy moving again, but small entrepreneurs with fire in their bellies.
Men and women who rage against the machine of socialist bull scutter in which we are all drowning.
In a strange way I hope Sean Quinn holds out against our corrupt justice system and escapes with a substantial proportion of his wealth intact.
Bear in mind that he is not being jailed for losing our money but for usurping the "majesty of the courts".
Some majesty!
Some legal system!

A Dub in Glasgo

Curly Judge wrote: »

For all his faults-and they are many-I cannot bring myself to damn a man who started his career loading a lorry with a hand shovel.

What planet are you on? There are plenty of people who start their career doing this and similar jobs. You won't damn them too irrespective of what they end up doing in later life because they started at the bottom rung?

bonzos

The gardai in Cavan have no interest in taking any action against any of the quinn family.....Sean Quinn sr made many a visit to the garda station with Ballyconnel over the years with booze and hampers for the boys, get real folks this is Ireland

NakedNNettles

Curly Judge wrote: »

For all his faults-and they are many-I cannot bring myself to damn a man who started his career loading a lorry with a hand shovel.
!

Well I can!

He should have gone and spent few pence of all those billions on an education and maybe he wouldn't be where he is today. :pac:

mayotom

musings wrote: »

Quinn insurances difficulties were caused by Anglo. The losses you refer to were caused by the Anglo investment, not by bad business practice.

Quinn was the worst affected investor from the Anglo collapse. The other badly affected investors would have been the Anglo Senior Bond Holders, but the government chose to bail them out, whoever they were. The goverment decided to save them and to screw Quinn

Thats where the issue is, none of them should have been bailed out, they all made bad investments, therefore they shouldn't be getting taxpayers money to cover their losses.
The bankers should have been in jail for years at this stage, I do feel some sympathy for Quinn, but he made mistakes and hence should take the associated losses.

The break up of the quinn group was a mistake and only the employees and the taxpayer will suffer.

Seaneh

I heard someone spewing something similar to the op on the train yesterday.
Some stupid ****ing auld wan going on about how he didn't do anything wrong and it was all a witch hunt, then went on to say that the way the country is wasn't FF's fault and the current government is doing worse and we will all see sense in the next election and vote for them.

I felt like puking on the stupid bitch.

an offshore entity

The lack of focus on the failures of Anglo and the government prove that Ireland remains a corrupt nation. In fact it appears that a tri-party alliance has formed to the detriment of the Quinn family. The key leaders in this circle are the politicians, bankers and the media.

We all have our views and opinions on politicians and bankers but something that we have failed to question is the media coverage of these events. The media is one of the greatest influences on the way we think and how we shape our lives. It is obvious that a bias exists and that the Quinn family are the subject of negative publicity. I follow the content published by media companies very closely and the number of articles about the Quinn family is extraordinary. This backs up the recent theory that the Quinn family are being used as a scapegoat.

The winner by far is the Independent. Ironic right? If you visit independent.ie and search 'sean quinn' you will find 2704 hits of which the majority are Anglo Irish Bank related.

Is there a bias in the media or some sort of censorship? Seems like it. Anyway its food for thought, make your own judgements.

mikom

Seaneh wrote: »

I heard someone spewing something similar to the op on the train yesterday.
Some stupid ****ing auld wan going on about how he didn't do anything wrong and it was all a witch hunt, then went on to say that the way the country is wasn't FF's fault and the current government is doing worse and we will all see sense in the next election and vote for them.

I felt like puking on the stupid bitch.

Fidelma Healy Eames needs a good puking on to be fair.......

Wudyaquit

an offshore entity wrote: »

Is there a bias in the media or some sort of censorship? Seems like it. Anyway its food for thought, make your own judgements.

There does seem to be a degree of bias, particularly among Independent newspapers.
The media were massively complicit in the bubble, fueling the boom with property sections and tv programmes about property. They never get listed in the list of usual suspects with bankers, developers and regulators, but are possibly more responsible than the bankers and developers - banks and developers too excessive risks, but that's what regulators are there to monitor and the media has an implied duty to inform and question honestly what's happening, not reflect what will sell the most copy.

I can't understand how they've managed to exclude themselves from blame, but in this case particularly, they've been very quick to present a particluar side of the argument. Tom Lyons seems to be incessant about giving half-truths in his analysis - he's as well informed as anyone on the story, if not better, so the details he leaves out that are reported elsewhere are staggering. Might just be personal bias among some journos but there are definitely some out there who don't seem too interested in balance

bonzos wrote: »

The gardai in Cavan have no interest in taking any action against any of the quinn family.....Sean Quinn sr made many a visit to the garda station with Ballyconnel over the years with booze and hampers for the boys, get real folks this is Ireland

There is no warrant out for any member of the quinn family other than Peter who it seems is out of the jurisdiction and has no link to Cavan. What is it exactly that you want the Gardai in cavan to do?