orange provocation

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Then what has burning a Polish flag got to do with it?

Their enshrined sectarianism.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Then what has burning a Polish flag got to do with it?

Ask the idiots burning it.

christmas2012

theyll probably spurts something about polamic ray guns lol :pac:

christmas2012 wrote: »

theyll probably spurts something about polamic ray guns lol :pac:

Well even weirder they claimed that this was a victimization of the loyalist community. I think its time that these people were put in their place alongside people from the deep south in america from the 1940s and other white trash nazi groups.

Happyman42 wrote: »

Their enshrined sectarianism.

So the burning of union flags in Dublin shows that Irish republicans hate the British.

Glad we clarified that.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So the burning of union flags in Dublin shows that Irish republicans hate the British.

Glad we clarified that.

It may or may not, however, we are talking about AN ORGANISATION having sectarianism at the heart of why they exist. This is not about individual likes or dislikes. Even if you could point to a republican, officially sanctioned organisation doing similar to the OO, it DOES NOT excuse the OO which is what this thread is about. :rolleyes:
What is your problem with understanding that point?

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So the burning of union flags in Dublin shows that Irish republicans hate the British.

Glad we clarified that.

Trying to deflect for the OO? New low there Fred.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So the burning of union flags in Dublin shows that Irish republicans hate the British.

Glad we clarified that.

No condemnation fred? The north doesn compare to dublin in the slightest in terms of sectarianisim.

Happyman42 wrote: »

It may or may not, however, we are talking about AN ORGANISATION having sectarianism at the heart of why they exist.

One amongst many. As long as they don't harm anyone else, no bother.

Nodin wrote: »

Trying to deflect for the OO? New low there Fred.

Not deflecting, I've no time for the OO, but trying to claim that one idiot burning a Polish flag means the OO are anti Polish is just sensationalism and does the arguement no favours.

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Not deflecting, I've no time for the OO, but trying to claim that one idiot burning a Polish flag means the OO are anti Polish is just sensationalism and does the arguement no favours.

There was more than one at it.

alastair wrote: »

One amongst many.

What other officially recognised, organisation has sectarianism at the heart of what they are about? Please supply sources, not hearsay or biased perceptions.
And please tell us how the OO are not harming anyone?

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Not deflecting, I've no time for the OO, but trying to claim that one idiot burning a Polish flag means the OO are anti Polish is just sensationalism and does the arguement no favours.

Could you try dealing with the actual 'argument'? :rolleyes:

[Deleted User]

They are a bigoted bitter bunch.

Can't stand them. Sad bástards.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Not deflecting, I've no time for the OO, but trying to claim that one idiot burning a Polish flag means the OO are anti Polish is just sensationalism and does the arguement no favours.

You see Fred you have missed the issue here. If one idiot burnt the union flag and he was condemed thats fair enough. However if one idiot burnt a union flag and the Irish governments reposnse was "this criticism is just vicitmising the Irish people" then we as a soceity would have a Problem. This is what is going on day in day out in the north And fred I dont mind saying its people who say whataboutthis ect and fail to adress the issue are the reason why the north is stuck in the past.

christmas2012

just seen on the bbc newsline that yesterday a loyalist band stoped at a catholic church to sing the famine song and to have a little march. wtf is wrong with these people, and they claim there not sectarian.

dont know how to upload links, maybe someone else could

Well my thoughts on it are they should be banned,its a song of provocation what they want is a riot,what they are doing is trying to provoke a riot and stir up strong emotions in people,thats what they effectively do every july the 12th..

Its time dublin put their foot down and not allow any sort of loyalist groups to march and sing their songs of provocation..

Its going to for one,cost a lot in the aftermath with the clean up after a riot and smash and grab oppurtunistic thieves..

golden lane

the orange order is a dying beast.......slowly being starved of the hatred that feeds it.....

christmas2012

the only reason they want to come to dublin is because of our reception,they seem to love winding people up,and ya youre right over the years the north of ireland is a lot more peaceful and i bet they hate that those old bigots..

Happyman42 wrote: »

What other officially recognised, organisation has sectarianism at the heart of what they are about? Please supply sources, not hearsay or biased perceptions.
And please tell us how the OO are not harming anyone?

Opus Dei
The Order of the Knights of Saint Columbanus
Royal Black Preceptory
The Associated Clubs of the Apprentice Boys of Derry
and pretty much any conservative religious organisation which discriminates against those outside their fold.

There's obviously some harm done by members of the Orange Order, and that should be highlighted and tackled, but that's a far cry from saying the entire organisation - sectarian ethos included - is institutionally harmful. It's obviously not.

alastair wrote: »

Opus Dei
The Order of the Knights of Saint Columbanus

Please show us where and how the above express sectarianism, where they depict and target another religion as heretical and despotic?

There's obviously some harm done by members of the Orange Order, and that should be highlighted and tackled, but that's a far cry from saying the entire organisation - sectarian ethos included - is institutionally harmful. It's obviously not.

It's fairly obvious that you have never been on the recieving end of bigoted, sectarian discrimination. What you don't seem to realise is that the constitution and ethos of this organisation validates and vindicates sectarian acts.
And I fail to see how comments like the above don't make you a 'sympathiser' with the OO.

golden lane

the orange order should be ignored.....let it die its painfull death.........

it is out of touch with reality.......as are its members..

Happyman42 wrote: »

It's fairly obvious that you have never been on the recieving end of bigoted, sectarian discrimination. What you don't seem to realise is that the constitution and ethos of this organisation validates and vindicates sectarian acts.

The ethos of the organisation might well validate sectarian acts, but that doesn't imply it validates any harmful actions.

Happyman42 wrote: »

And I fail to see how comments like the above don't make you a 'sympathiser' with the OO.

Sorry about your failure of comprehension, but that's not down to me. I've already told you that I've no truck with their opinions or ethos, and you'll just have to take that as a given.

alastair wrote: »

The ethos of the organisation might well validate sectarian acts, but that doesn't imply it validates any harmful actions.

Sorry about your failure of comprehension, but that's not down to me. I've already told you that I've no truck with their opinions or ethos, and you'll just have to take that as a given.

You admit that they are a sectarian organisation. You fail to seek or call for a change to the constitution which validates and vindicates this, which means you are happy for the sectarianism to continue. That makes you sympathetic to the OO's survival. No comprehension problems here, a spade is a spade.

Happyman42 wrote: »

You admit that they are a sectarian organisation. You fail to seek or call for a change to the constitution which validates and vindicates this, which means you are happy for the sectarianism to continue. That makes you sympathetic to the OO's survival. No comprehension problems here, a spade is a spade.

Or black is white? You're talking through your hat. Like I say - sectarianism isn't monopolised by the OO, and we can't just wish away groups with sectarian outlooks, so best to focus on dealing with harmful acts rather than imagine you can coerce opinions - institutional or otherwise.

golden lane wrote: »

the orange order should be ignored.....let it die its painfull death.........

it is out of touch with reality.......as are its members..

Exactly.

Trouble is, they always find an audience who can't wait to take offence.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Exactly.

Trouble is, they always find an audience who can't wait to take offence.

Sorry Fred I used to think you were an intelligent fair poster unlike people like Kieth afc or whoever but you basically think the trouble with people who "sing go home the famines over" and burn polish and Irish flags is the audience always takes offence? Its opinions like this that fuel and excuse the bigotry in the north.