alastair wrote: » When were Rules 21 and 42 suspended in the GAA? No shortage of dodgy sectarianism in all our recent history.
PauloMN wrote: » Yes, they have, but to try and give them credit for doing so when, in reality, their hand was forced is short-sighted. I welcome them to have a parade in Dublin if they so wish. We live in a democracy. I would expect the OO to work with the Gardaí and local authorities on planning it though, giving careful consideration to the timing, its route and the expected behaviour of the participants. My main concern is the lack of control they have over their members, which was quite clear by the carry on at that church. I'd expect full accountability from the organising ROI lodge if such incidents happened here, and the deafening silence that we see from the OO up north would not be acceptable if we were to allow such marches here. I'd also expect the ROI organisers to take full responsibility for the behaviour of any OO members travelling from the six counties for such a parade in Dublin. Finally, if this were to happen, it would need to be exclusively an OO march. No tag-on groups like Love Ulster, FAIR or other such organisations.
PauloMN wrote: » How was rule 21 sectarian? Are the PSNI a religion now? Anyway, the point is, those rules have been changed. The OO seem hell bent on not changing, even when a member attends a Mass to grieve for a young man who gave his life to serve all people of NI.
alastair wrote: » The motivation was pretty clearly sectarian, as was the ban, and rule 42. That a sports organisation managed to hang on to such nonsense for so long should make clear enough how a highly conservative, insular, and suspicious religious organisation hangs on to patently sectarian nonsense in it's rules to date.
Jimoslimos wrote: » Thread in danger of being derailed here, but hey when you're losing an argument.... What was sectarian about Rule 21? I didn't agree fully with it but remember this was an organisation which suffered greatly from British military intimidation, Crossmaglen? The GAA have had no issues with people from any religious background - unlike the OO. As for rule 42, explain to me what is unusual about a sporting organisation seeking to protect its assets from competition?
alastair wrote: » What had the RUC got to do with Crossmaglen? That was the British Army. Rule 42 was the last vestiges of the ban - it's no accident that the last stronghold of support for rule 42 was the NI clubs. It wasn't about protecting the survival of the game at all.
PauloMN wrote: » The motivation was not sectarian. You were the one at pains earlier on to highlight was is/is not sectarian, and now you are trying to label rule 21 as sectarian? It was quite obvious that GAA centres, particularly in rural border areas, were subject to intimidation from security forces. I don't ever remember a "no Protestants" rule in the GAA, do you?
PauloMN wrote: » Comparing the situations is frankly ludicrous. The GAA have got rid of rule 21 as the RUC changed and became the PSNI, and it was not a sectarian rule in any case. To compare that to the OO - one of whose members wanted another member removed for attending a Mass - is like comparing chalk and cheese.
Bessiebee wrote: » Lest there be any doubt, Sam Maguire was Protestant :eek:
alastair wrote: » No - but I certainly remember a set of rules that aimed, and succeeded in ensuring that unionists and loyalists (who kinda tended to be Protestant) were excluded from the GAA. Which resulted in the same outcome. That Rule 42 hung on in for so long was down to NI clubs - which puts the lie to the motivations for the ban. Not chalk and cheese - two sets of organisations who set out to create nice segregated situations for themselves. The OO does it in it's own clumsy and blunt manner - and yep - the GAA approach isn't quite so bad, but honestly - would any Protestant really want to follow Kevin Lynch GAC, or participate in a sport that gets up to this sort of ****e:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18322046
Cú Giobach wrote: » Yes a protestant like Sam Maguire, and the many other Irish or nationalist protestants who have been involved with the organisation. You seem to making out nationalism is exclusively catholic, you are so so wrong. You claim an organisation that names it's second biggest award after a protestant was inherently sectarian, doesn't this seem a bit odd?? Jack Boothman ex presedent of the GAA, a protestant head of an anti-protestant organisation?? Give us a break. How about a club named after one of the protestant heros of Ireland. http://wolfetonesshannon.clare.gaa.ie/ You really are clutching at straws to continue arguing here.
alastair wrote: » No sniff of sectarianism in a sports club that currently awards youth medals with an IRA terrorist on them then? My mistake. That must just be an expression of 'nationalism' eh?
Cú Giobach wrote: » Yes. You got it.
alastair wrote: » I'm sure if the OO fielded a lacrosse team with the Billy Wright medal for the kiddies - it'd get a pass on the same basis. I'm sure.
Cú Giobach wrote: » So no response once again to the points I raised. Your argument has therefore been thoroughly trounced. Time to admit defeat Ali.
alastair wrote: » I'm not feeling any love for the Billy Wright medal for the kids - come on now - it's just a bit of harmless nationalism.
Cú Giobach wrote: » If you can't answer the mind bogglingly simple question of how come there are protestants in this anti-protestant organisation, then it is time to stop making a fool of yourself, I'm starting to feel embarrassed for you now.
alastair wrote: » How many protestants participated in the GAA up north for all those years of the ban etc? The experience of those few protestants who did? The ongoing issues in that regard: http://thescore.thejournal.ie/sectarian-storm-armagh-complain-of-racist-abuse-towards-players-391260-Mar2012/ Sure - there's ample evidence of a different situation south of the border (to a degree mind), but you would have to be delusional not to see how the various rules, ethos, and choices that NI clubs made/make are geared towards sectarian segregation. Honestly - the prospect of a kiddies' Billy Wright medal wouldn't bother you in the slightest? Those are some blinkers.
alastair wrote: » How many protestants participated in the GAA up north for all those years of the ban etc? The experience of those few protestants who did? The ongoing issues in that regard: http://thescore.thejournal.ie/sectarian-storm-armagh-complain-of-racist-abuse-towards-players-391260-Mar2012/
Sure - there's ample evidence of a different situation south of the border (to a degree mind), but you would have to be delusional not to see how the various rules, ethos, and choices that NI clubs made/make are geared towards sectarian segregation.
Honestly - the prospect of a kiddies' Billy Wright medal wouldn't bother you in the slightest? Those are some blinkers.
alastair wrote: » I'm guessing that whooshing noise over your head means nothing to you? As long as it is not the sound of aggressive Army helicopters, its fine.
karma_ wrote: » Had you been consistent from the start, and rightly criticised the actions of the band the thread was about, there would have been no need for the thread to go this distance, but oh no, you had to go FULL Nelson McCausland on it! Well done.
Cú Giobach wrote: » Give it a break, I ignored your comment because it was irrelevant. Nothing more than an embarrassing, attempted deflection of a desperate man.
alastair wrote: » I'd look into those comprehension issues.
