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Why cinemas can go to hell, and I will pirate [ MOD WARNING IN OP ]

Sanjuro

So for over a year, I've become increasingly disillusioned with one of my favourite past times, hitting up the cinema for the latest film release. With the drop in film quality and rise in prices, the cinema has become less a fun trip and more a source of annoyance. Last night was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I arrived in Vue in Liffey Valley to see Prometheus, a film I'd been looking forward to for months. Due to a busy work life and other commitments, I'd been unable to see the film until now.

The first thing that annoyed me was that I was unable to see the film in traditional 2D. Frankly, I find 3D to be a gimmick. A gimmick that almost always is an annoyance that detracts from the film experience. There's a loss of depth of field in some scenes, visual confusion as your eyes try to figure out what is going on, and the continuing problem with the darkness of the picture. And almost every 3D film I've seen has proven to look infinitely better upon second viewing in 2D. So for me, given the choice, I'll watch 2D.

And here's the first problem. Almost every cinema I looked at the listings for, either didn't give you the option of 2D, or had final 2D showings during the day. Post 5pm, it's 3D or nothing. You want choice? Fuck you. It's our way, or no way. Second problem. I went up to the desk to purchase the tickets. Two regular tickets, no premium bullshit seats. No extras. No popcorn. No drinks. Nothing but the damn seat tickets. My jaw hit the floor when I was charged €27.80. Almost thirty euros for two tickets. 'Wait, I have brought 3D glasses with me. I don't need to purchase any more.' I was told that I had no choice. The glasses were a mandatory charge. This further annoyed me. However, I paid the price as I was damned if I was waiting any longer to see the film. But the annoyance didn't stop there.

We were forced to sit through 25 minutes of ads and trailers, followed by the cinema blasting me with an ad for the damn cinema I was already sitting in. Then, a short presentation about the films coming out I had just seen the trailers for. At one point I lost my patience and futilely yelled 'GET ON WITH IT' into the darkness. Finally, after what seemed like an eternity, and my questioning as to why I'd bought a ticket to a screening of trailers (I'd almost forgotten I was in the cinema to see a film), the film began.

But this is where I draw the line. I don't want to be ripped off any longer. Two more films will drag me to the cinema this year. The Dark Knight Rises and The Hobbit. Thankfully, only one of those will be 3D. I may even pay the price for admission to The Master when that is released. But no more. I'm done with the big cinema chains. What I will say is that I'm glad that there is The IFI and The Lighthouse. Despite their flaws, at least they offer something different.

So I'm going to continue to download films. I'd always been more than willing to pay for a film in the cinema. I used to go once a week, no matter what crap I was seeing. The whole experience was worth it. But the pricing thing has just become ridiculous. I don't want premium seats. I don't want 3D. If I'm forced to see it, I don't want to have to pay extra for glasses. I've too many pairs already, as it is. The price of admission alone is already extortionate.

I know the arguments against torrenting. Frankly, some of them are ridiculous. The movie industry is unfathomably profitable. When films are pulling in over a billion dollars, any claim that piracy is hurting the industry are farcical. So from now on, I'll wait a few weeks extra for most films. I'll download the film and watch it on my own premium seat in my living room. With my own fresh food. And in two fucking dimensions. Congratulations, film industry. Your attempt to bring the audience back to the cinema have driven me away from it.

MOD WARNING:

No discussion of where and how to illegally download copyrighted content. Doing so will result in a ban.

No boasting/bragging about how you watch illegally downloaded copyrighted content. Doing so will result in a ban.

If you can't discuss the merits of cinemagoing versus piracy without doing either of the above, then please refrain from posting in this thread.

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Stuck Cone

Sad Professor wrote: »

From the charter:

By all means, discuss the OP's post, but the next person who boasts about pirating is getting banned.

I lived in somalia once and pirated a ship once yarrrrr!!!

Your shooting yourself in the hole OP you pay extra due to pirating

Nervous Wreck

Fwiw Sanj, I completely agree. I used to go to the cinema probably twice a week (when I had cineworld card, anyway). I only usually go with the gf these days and mostly just to see fluff of a friday night. But when something comes up that I really wanna see, a part of me really dreads it.

Where are we gonna see it in 2D?
Where will we not be raped in our wallets?
Where will the staff actually react to scumbag kids making noise so I don't have to embarrass herself by yelling/threatening.

The cost of 3D doesn't affect me too much cos I don't attend 3D movies under any circumstances cos 3D sucks balls (unless the film is shot in 3D, in which case I may give it a shot) but the fact that so little choice is given annoys me cos they're using it to skew statistics. "People seem to love 3D!" No; they're just not getting the choice...

Sanjuro

Deleted User wrote: »

But you're paying for the extras because people pirate. A cinema is a business and they have to make their money somewhere. They only take a fraction of a ticket cost, so they increase the sale of food. People pirate and don't go to a cinema, that means another ticket lost, which means more fees and extra charges, otherwise the cinema will have to shut down.

I disagree. The claim that piracy hurts ticket sales is incredibly overstated. And done so by those within the industry. Avengers finally proved this point. The film is one of the biggest opening films of all time. And also the most pirated film of all time. The fact that thousands of people downloaded the film had a minute, almost insignificant affect on box-office receipts.

Source 1

Source 2

Jogathon

I am getting sick of the cinema too. The last two times I've had noisy, ignorant kids laughing and messing and basically doing my head in. On their phones and throwing popcorn etc. Having said that I'm going to the cinema tonight...

My cinema is miles cheaper than €27 for two though, €9 max each. I hate 3D, prefer the traditional view!

e_e

1. If you hate 3D, don't go to see 3D movies.
2. If your cinema is overpriced, go to a different cinema.
3. If all the films you go to are terrible, that's your own fault really for making such poor decisions.

The lack of common sense here is just f***in absurd. I find that a lot of downloaders (be it music or film) totally have their head in the sand as to how the industry works. Though I think that independent/foreign film needs to be supported above all else in the cinema.

Savoy, IMC and Movies@ are multiplexes with reasonable prices, not overlong ads and patrons that behave themselves (from my own experiences), go there.

[Deleted User]

Sanjuro wrote: »

I disagree. The claim that piracy hurts ticket sales is incredibly overstated. And done so by those within the industry. Avengers finally proved this point. The film is one of the biggest opening films of all time. And also the most pirated film of all time. The fact that thousands of people downloaded the film had a minute, almost insignificant affect on box-office receipts.

Source 1

Source 2

I don't know - the Avengers is a tough one to call as such. Thing is that the people that pirated probably saw that it was a good movie and realized that it was something best seen in the cinema as well, so those that pirated then went on to pay for a ticket. But it's not that simple or that clean cut - it doesn't happen like that for every movie.

faceman

I feel your pain OP but alas, piracy is bad m'kay!

I went to see a movie in the Empire in Leicester Sq and on purchasing the ticket the staff member informed me there would be 15 minutes of ads before the film started. Found it unusually helpful that she told me this but very much grateful.

[Deleted User]

faceman wrote: »

I feel your pain OP but alas, piracy is bad m'kay!

I went to see a movie in the Empire in Leicester Sq and on purchasing the ticket the staff member informed me there would be 15 minutes of ads before the film started. Found it unusually helpful that she told me this but very much grateful.

Is it not generally known by most that there are 10-15 minutes of ads and trailers before the movie itself?

johnny_ultimate

The big cinema chains are always going to overcharge you. McDonalds for film, really: limited choice for more than its value. This isn't a new phenomenon, although admittedly the standard ticket prices in Cineworld et al are ridiculous now. But living in Dublin I've never found it difficult to find 2D showings of stuff - have only been to one 3D screening in the last six months or so, and that was only because it was only released in 3D (and awful at that). IFI, Lighthouse and Screen and others do not overcharge (nor do IMC and a few of the other multiplexes) and tend to offer a much better variety to boot.

I continue going to the cinema weekly, despite the very rare horrible experience (and I had a particularly uncomfortable one this week, ahem). I still think it's the only way to watch a film as intended. When I went to see The Turin Horse a few weeks ago, the lights came up and you just knew everyone in the cinema had been through the same emotional journey. It's that sense that you lose at home, that shared communal experience. That same sensory deprivation. I know projectors and sound systems are getting ever better, but romanticism or not the cinema remains for me the primary source for watching films.

And mostly I just want to support the great films that are still being made, and the distributors and exhibitors who go out of their way to show them. The most depressing news I read recently was from Third Window Films, who have gone out of their way to release offbeat, fascinating Japanese films. But they've had to stop showing their films in the cinema because there's just a market for them anymore. They're the kind of exhibitor piracy hurts, or who struggle because so many people just go to see the big blockbusters.

It's easier to justify piracy in relation to big blockbusters: Hollywood is still making money, and likely will continue to do so. But it's the smaller distributors and exhibitors that are really hurt by it, and they're the ones that I always go out of my way to support. Cinema would be a much duller, derivative place if it wasn't for places like The Screen, the IFI and Lighthouse showing the films that deserve to be seen.

Kur4mA

I went to see Prometheus just last Friday as, like you, I've had other commitments that prevented me seeing it sooner. I went to see it in the new isense in Blanchardstown and yes, I was forced to see it in 3D.

Normally, I'm one of the people hating on 3D too because I think it looks pure **** for the most part but Prometheus for me as stunning looking in 3D. I think it might have been the isense screen because I saw The Avengers 3D in Blanch too and it was terrible. But in all honesty, the prices are ridiculous but if every film looks as good on these new screens as Prometheus did, I will continue to part with my cash.

krudler

I wish there were more indy/arthouse cinemas outside of Dublin, there's nothing like that in Limerick, the omniplex here does show ballet and opera so thats something at least if you're into that, but never older movies or limited release stuff, closest thing recently was The Raid and that was a big release for a small movie if that makes sense.

Sanjuro

e_e wrote: »

1. If you hate 3D, don't go to see 3D movies.
2. If your cinema is overpriced, go to a different cinema.

Christ. Right.
1. I want to see a film. The film is showing in both 2D and 3D. 2D showings are seemingly deliberately only shown during the day, forcing the more expensive 3D option. Why is the choice being taken away from the audience. I know, nobody is forcing anyone to pay for anything. But if I want to see a film, I would like the option of paying less for 2D. Or at least, if the choice is taken away, don't charge extra for 3D.

2. The price of admission to the cinema is vastly overpriced in the majority of cinemas. Yes. There are exceptions. But sometimes these exceptions are inaccessible. The OP wasn't about that particular cinema. I already decided, if I'm going again, it wont be to that place. But the rant (which, I know, is what it was) was about cinemas in general.

Sanjuro

faceman wrote: »

I feel your pain OP but alas, piracy is bad m'kay!

I went to see a movie in the Empire in Leicester Sq and on purchasing the ticket the staff member informed me there would be 15 minutes of ads before the film started. Found it unusually helpful that she told me this but very much grateful.

Look, I agree. Piracy is not good. And it's not the forking over of cash I object to. I have a massive DVD collection, all of which I paid for. Netflix is a great idea in theory. However, it's selection is rubbish. If there were a streaming service that was up to date, reliable and had a proper selection of films, I'd be all over that. However, it's undeniable that until something like that becomes widely available, people will be just take the easier option. And while that's wrong, that's just the way of the world.

[Deleted User]

I was curious there and decided to do some searching through the usual well-known torrent routes (obviously not going to say where) and in relation to the Avengers, most of the copies I found were cam-quality and not that great either. The general consensus from a lot of comments I read is that most of the copies are the same quality.

So it's possible that people torrented the movie, watched it and saw it was a good movie, but terrible quality and then went to purchase a cinema ticket.

Thing is that you cannot say that just because Avengers was highly torrented and went on to become one of the highest grossing movies means that the effect pirating has on ticket sales isn't a large one, especially on the independent and smaller cinemas.

Oafley Jones

e_e wrote: »

1. If you hate 3D, don't go to see 3D movies.
2. If your cinema is overpriced, go to a different cinema.
3. If all the films you go to are terrible, that's your own fault really for making such poor decisions.

The lack of common sense here is just f***in absurd. I find that a lot of downloaders (be it music or film) totally have their head in the sand as to how the industry works. Though I think that independent/foreign film needs to be supported above all else in the cinema.

Savoy, IMC and Movies@ are multiplexes with reasonable prices, not overlong ads and patrons that behave themselves (from my own experiences), go there.

Totally agree with this. You don't like the cinema experience then you wait for home release. There is no excuse for piracy. I'm sure if I was to look at the OPs history I'd find himself complaining about our culture of entitlement in this country.

krudler

Sanjuro wrote: »

Christ. Right.
1. I want to see a film. The film is showing in both 2D and 3D. 2D showings are seemingly deliberately only shown during the day, forcing the more expensive 3D option. Why is the choice being taken away from the audience. I know, nobody is forcing anyone to pay for anything. But if I want to see a film, I would like the option of paying less for 2D. Or at least, if the choice is taken away, don't charge extra for 3D.

2. The price of admission to the cinema is vastly overpriced in the majority of cinemas. Yes. There are exceptions. But sometimes these exceptions are inaccessible. The OP wasn't about that particular cinema. I already decided, if I'm going again, it wont be to that place. But the rant (which, I know, is what it was) was about cinemas in general.

but not all cinemas charge that much or have 3D only showings, if you're in dublin you have far more choice than most cities or towns. we only have 3 cinemas here and one of those is open 3 months. the Storm here opened in 2005 and the omniplex in 1997 (iirc). there used to be a good few cinemas in limerick but n more, which is a pity, theres actually no city centre cinema here anymore, they're all in the suburbs.

Galvasean

Deleted User wrote: »

I was curious there and decided to do some searching through the usual well-known torrent routes (obviously not going to say where) and in relation to the Avengers, most of the copies I found were cam-quality and not that great either. The general consensus from a lot of comments I read is that most of the copies are the same quality.

So it's possible that people torrented the movie, watched it and saw it was a good movie, but terrible quality and then went to purchase a cinema ticket.

Or perhaps they decided they couldn't watch such a bad quality rip for 2+ hours so coughed up the dough and went to the cinema?

Sad Professor

I regularly go to Vue, mainly because it's closest to me. I only go at off peak times, but it seems comparable to Cineworld in terms of price.

Lighthouse is probably the best value cinema that I go to. I like the IFI as well and it's often the only place to see certain films, but the seating layout leaves something to be desired.

Hyperbullet

I love these fantastically ill informed statements justifying piracy, when a bit of research will show you the overheads that cinemas incur.

When distribution companies stop forcing cinemas to hand over 60-70% of the weekend box office take, and in the case of one greedy company 100% of opening weekend, then maybe cinemas might become a cheaper experience. But as was previously mentioned it is a vicious circle, and the more people download pirated material, the more they're killing the cinema experience.

johnny_ultimate

As for pirating what is available on DVD / Blu-Ray, I think Masters of Cinema (who consistently release classic cinema in the highest possible transfer quality, and tend to be worth single every cent you pay for their releases) say it best with their anti-piracy warning:

For those distributors who go out of their way to put out quality releases, I feel it's simply our duty as cinema fans to support them.

kingtut

Sanjuro wrote: »

However, I paid the price as I was damned if I was waiting any longer to see the film. But the annoyance didn't stop there.

Fair enough but at what point did you complain to a member of staff or ask to see a manager? Seeing as you do not mention this I am assuming you didn't ...

... and that is a big problem, if people don't complain (and hand over their hard earned cash without putting up a fight then things won't change).

krudler

Galvasean wrote: »

Or perhaps they decided they couldn't watch such a bad quality rip for 2+ hours so coughed up the dough and went to the cinema?

I genuinely dont understand cams, br/dvd rips sure, but a shaky, blurry, full of people walking in front of the camera rip? why would you bother to save a few quid watch a big movie in the worst way possible?

i remember seeing a cam of the first LOTR movie years back on video of all things (remember that kids?) and during a scene whoever recording it obviously had a jacket covering the camera, and the sleeve of it or something slipped over the lens so you couldnt see anything, and the guy moved it, LOOKED INTO THE CAMERA and said "sorry!" I wish I still had a copy of it it was amazing :pac:

Galvasean

I didn't think they made those cam-rips anymore until recently I saw a ripped copy of the Grey in somebody's house. We stuck it on and by the Gods! The guy with the camera must have had no sense of equilibrium as the picture was at a constant (and varying) skew, you could not hear any of the dialogue, shadow people would walk past the screen every now and then and the loud clicking noise of camera fiddling was almost constant.
I can't imagine anybody watches these things in this day and age.

stateofflux

no use moaning OP, just find an old student card and change the date.....

Sad Professor

Speaking of which, they never ask to see my student card in Vue. Price isn't that much lower though.

[Deleted User]

You gotta love how some people will clutch at any straw in order to justify stealing.

Cinemas are a business and as such exist to make as much profit as possible. If you do not want to pay close to 15 euro for a cinema ticket then do what everyone else does, shop around. There are plenty of cinemas in Dublin offering cheaper cinema tickets. Hardly can justify stealing a film simply because you couldn't be bothered to shop around for the best price.

If you don't want to see a film in 3D then check the listings before you get to the cinema, do not assume that there will be a 2D screening there simply to appease you. After a week or so on release cinemas will rarely offer both the 2D and 3D screenings in evening time slots. Which ever version brings in the most viewers gets preference which is why in my local cinema the 3D screenings of Prometheus are on during the day while the 2D screenings occur in the evening. I would hate if cinemas continued to run both 2D and 3D screenings of the same film in evening slots as it would mean that another film had to suffer.

If you want to see a 3D film and don't want to pay the top up, then find a cinema that lets you reuse the glasses. Plenty of cinemas allow you to reuse the same pair for multiple films at no extra cost. When I'm back home I use the same pair of 3D glasses for any film I go see that is in 3D. as for the darkness of 3D, well that's often down to the cinema and not the film. Transformers 3D in the cinema looked as bright and vibrant as any 2D film.

As for ads and trailers, well as long as distributors continue to take the vast majority of the opening weeks ticket sales then they are here to stay. Personally I have no real issue with a few ads and trailers before a film, it's an added safety net in case I'm running late.

What really annoyed me about the op is that it's clear that they are using this one bad experience to justify stealing. I've had more than my fair share of bad cinema going experiences, (watching a man get stabbed was far from fun nor is listening to a girl tell her friend how her period was extra messy) but none of them has ever put me off going to the cinema.

If the op was the film fan he tries to make himself out to be then his thread title should read "Why cinemas can go to hell, and I will wait for the DVD or Blu." I missed John Carter in the cinema, I was looking forward to seeing it but sadly family issues prevented me from going to see it. Now I could have simply downloaded a camera rip or waited a few weeks for the DVD or Blu rip but I didn't, I preordered the Blu-Ray and enjoyed the hell out of the film when it came. I may not have seen it in the cinema but at least I supported the film makers but not simply stealing their film.

kingtut

Deleted User wrote: »

You gotta love how some people will clutch at any straw in order to justify stealing.

You wouldn't steal a car so why steal a movie

:pac:

Sleepy

Most of what I download, I wouldn't have parted with cash to watch in the first place. When I can get a babysitter, can afford it and there's something I'd like to see on the big screen, I'll head to the cinema for it.

Things like The Avengers will be torrented massively as soon as DVD rips are available because kids will watch something like that over and over again and no parent is going to fork out the cash to keep bringing them to see it in the cinema.

I've hundreds of DVD's and tbh, these days I'm as likely to download something I already have on DVD than to route through the DVD collection to find it and then sit through ads giving out to me about pirating on a source I've paid for.

The movie industry needs to learn that they need to offer "better than free". Pack the DVD's and BR's with good extra materials, ensure cinemas are monitoring the customers they let in and ejecting trouble-makers without other patrons having to make complaints etc.

Yes, I'm stealing copyright but in doing so I don't deny anyone else the use of that resource, nor am I denying anyone an income as were I not downloading it, I'd simply be watching whatever was on telly instead or re-watching DVD's I've already bought.

e_e

Sanjuro wrote: »

Christ. Right.
1. I want to see a film. The film is showing in both 2D and 3D. 2D showings are seemingly deliberately only shown during the day, forcing the more expensive 3D option. Why is the choice being taken away from the audience. I know, nobody is forcing anyone to pay for anything. But if I want to see a film, I would like the option of paying less for 2D. Or at least, if the choice is taken away, don't charge extra for 3D.

2. The price of admission to the cinema is vastly overpriced in the majority of cinemas. Yes. There are exceptions. But sometimes these exceptions are inaccessible. The OP wasn't about that particular cinema. I already decided, if I'm going again, it wont be to that place. But the rant (which, I know, is what it was) was about cinemas in general.

The Lighthouse are showing at least one 2D screening of Prometheus per day, several of them being in the evening time. I guarantee you won't be spending over 10 euro on a ticket, guess it's too late now though.

Your second point is why I found your rant more than a little misguided, you're trying to use 2 or 3 cinemas as an example within the whole of Ireland. It's a pretty bad generalization since I could name about 6 cinemas just in Dublin I go to that don't fall into the trap you stated. A better tactic would be to big up the cinemas that are reasonable instead of tarnishing everywhere with one brush.

krudler

Deleted User wrote: »

What really annoyed me about the op is that it's clear that they are using this one bad experience to justify stealing. I've had more than my fair share of bad cinema going experiences, (watching a man get stabbed was far from fun nor is listening to a girl tell her friend how her period was extra messy) but none of them has ever put me off going to the cinema.

where was that?