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Child Item

Being a broody and paternal guy!

C.D.

I am curious to know whether any other Clubbers feel the same way or indeed their opinion on how society views the following. I’m 25, single, no kids. Few long term relationships but wouldn’t want kids for at least 4 years. I’d get married tomorrow if I met the right girl though- I firmly believe it is better to marry the right person at the “wrong” time instead of waiting till the “right” time (30+) and marrying the wrong person.

I am a pretty paternal guy. In fact, I’m the most paternal guy I know. I turn into goo around babies and just generally love kids. I honestly just think they are awesome. I’m that guy who will happily play with kids for hours. I also feel very strong protective and territorial instincts whenever I feel a child / mother is in danger.

Pretty much all my big hopes (meeting the girl of my dreams, settling down and making babies) and big fears (outliving my kids, my child having a terminal illness, never meeting anyone, not being able to have kids) revolve around kids. In fact I’m fighting back a surge of emotion just thinking about how I’d feel if my kids were very sick.

It’s pretty normal, even expected for some women to feel this away about children. Do other guys feel paternal and broody? How do the lady Clubbers view such guys?

To get to the meat of my post, I have often found that people’s reactions range from “Aw, that’s so cute” to viewing me with suspicion. It really saddens me, that as a man, society is less accepting of men being paternal and broody. Society frowns on men having close relationships with children who are not related to them and indeed on men who choose to work with children. Understandably, it is due to a small minority of men who do unspeakable things, but to tar everyone else with the same brush is very sad. I’d never allow myself to left alone with someone else’s child just in case an allegation was ever made and I know plenty of other guys (and girls!) who would feel the same way- how sad is that that we are all so terrified of an allegation of pedophilia?

I really do think close relationships with adults of both genders are very important to kids. I’m sure we can all remember how important our fathers/brothers/uncles were to us- male role models are fundamental to a child’s upbringing. Even more so if the father is not around. Are we moving towards a society where the only close relationships between a man and child will be if they related?

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UL_heart_throb

tbh wrote: »

well, when I think of kids, I'm not thinking

Are you not? That part of it just doesn't pop into your head no?

kinda did.

Kinda didn't.

I'm guessing you're a young man, not long out of college.

I thought you were someone who had a kid at 20 by a contraceptive mishap, and I was wrong, you are also wrong in your assumptions about me.

That'd be a big part of why you think of children in terms of obligation, piss, ****, vomit, no free time etc.

Do you know what the word obligation means? You are obliged to look after your children.

That's cool, you may change as you get older, you may not. wife

Change what? Your duty to you children does not end legally until they are 18 and morally at another point in time.

For me and my it was a conscious choice. Not everybody sees things the same way as you.

You don't know how I see things. Don't give me this "when you get to my age sonny crap. You have a child or children and you seem pretty content with that. You have made sacrifices for them. You're entitled to feel your life is improved by their precence in your life.

You're not entitled to be patronising and I don't have to tolerate your smug attitude.

[Deleted User]

UL_heart_throb wrote: »

To be honest a lot of ye sound like 14 year old girls.

UL_heart_throb wrote: »

You're not entitled to be patronising and I don't have to tolerate your smug attitude.

likewise

Panthro

Right lads, enough is enough. Lets nip that little spat right now.

christmas2012

I wouldnt worry cd you will meet someone,remember youre still 25,and guys dont have to worry about that ticking clock like girls do,guys can get away with being single for longer,i was with a guy(he was a nightmare in fact every girls nightmare) in a well it was bull****e i coudlnt even call it a relationship looking back he was not parternal with me i think he fancied his chances just like me needless to say it didnt work out it was the best thing that ever happened went on a speed date recently and im now with someone who is completely different in every way

what im saying is things have a way of working out there are plenty of maternal broody type girls out there you will meet someone eventually

MagicMarker

tbh wrote: »

well I was dealing specifically with ULs post, I wasn't for a second claiming it was a binary choice.

I'd also think that maturity has a big part to play when weighing up between having a child or having to deal with dirty nappies.

Well if you don't want kids solely for the reason that you don't want to change nappies, well that's just plain silly.

I don't want kids just because I'm not that fond of kids, not having to change nappies is just an added brucey bonus.

Pembily

My brother and best friend are both really paternal as is my dad, total sweethearts and I think it's lovely. Seeing a guy with kids in the park, playing or just minding etc is really nice to see and always makes me smile!

On the suspicion side, it's heart breaking, I have caught myself thinking it a few times before and I stop myself as it's not right.

C.D.

UL_heart_throb wrote: »

To be honest a lot of ye sound like 14 year old girls. Are you mindful of the piss **** and vomit you will have to clean up? Are you aware how much anxiety and worry comes with parenthood? Do you know how much of your free time you will lose?

Societies rules for dealing with children is fairly crystal clear. As a adult male stay away from other people's kids unless they've been entrusted to you and never let another adult male near your own kids without your permission.

"OMG babies are so cute". WTF is this.

I actually think this post is the single most valuable contribution to this thread. It encompasses, exactly, the attitude a large section of society has towards men and babies.

To show any kind of interest in kids is at best to emasculate oneself; at worst, if they are not related to you it is sinister.

Which is a totally bizarre attitude. The role of a father or protector is as manly as it gets! I’m definitely not a 14 year old girl anatomically or otherwise. While not being a 7ft walking slab of muscle, I have my fair share of “Alpha” attributes as loath as I am to use the term. Yet I still love kids!

The above attitude is a very sad state of affairs. Kids, irrespective of background, are universally in need of protection, guidance and nurturing from society (they are the future after all) yet why is it really only socially acceptable for half of society to do this? I honestly think a lack of strong male role models and adult male relationships is what leads to the higher number of guys becoming violent and dysfunctional.

And I naive about babies? Maybe. And I inexperienced? Definitely. I’ve thought long and hard about the sacrifices involved- professionally, personally, romantically, socially and financially. But the fact that I have thought about these things, I’ve talked about them and debated them endlessly with myself and still think it is the single most fulfilling thing to do with my life means I know I’m cut out to be a Dad. Not so sure about you

And I’m evidently not afraid to proclaim my paternalism! Though I’m rarely afraid of proclaiming anything I feel strongly about whether it be from behind a keyboard or a podium!

C.D.

CageWager wrote: »

I find having kids around is a great excuse to play with lego.

This! Did you know that boys of all ages and nationalities agreed that a Lego castle with no dragon was worse than no castle at all?!

Giselle wrote: »

Do you really think that people aren't aware of the 'piss **** and vomit'? Is that really what you think its all about?

They just happen to see a bigger picture in parenthood than a loss of free time, and are mature enough to look past wiping up a big of baby sick.

The 14 year old girl crack is typically the reason why men (yes, real men) don't feel comfortable publicly discussing very real paternal feelings and urges.

WTF is this indeed.

Rawr, you go get him!

Chet Zar

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

I would say you are far from the only guy to feel intense and powerful emotions related to children. The late Christopher Hitchens in his memoirs once wrote a line so moving on the subject that I can quote it from memory:

"To be the father of growing daughters is to understand something of what Yeats evokes with his imperishable phrase 'terrible beauty.' Nothing can make one so happily exhilarated or so frightened: it's a solid lesson in the limitations of self to realize that your heart is running around inside someone else's body. It also makes me quite astonishingly calm at the thought of death: I know whom I would die to protect"

That's epic...what you'd expect from him. I must start reading some of his stuff, he was an amazing writer and amazingly articulate by the sounds of it.

Giselle

C.D. wrote: »

Rawr, you go get him!

Was lost on him

UL_heart_throb

C.D. wrote: »

I actually think this post is the single most valuable contribution to this thread. It encompasses, exactly, the attitude a large section of society has towards men and babies.

To show any kind of interest in kids is at best to emasculate oneself; at worst, if they are not related to you it is sinister.

Are we inagreement that this is the prevailing attitude? Whether it's right or wrong is another story. It's the current truth. TBH if you go out with your kid and some dirty auld one with filthy hands comes over and tries to handle your child what do you do? Either tell her to **** off or tolerate it out of politeness. What would you do if 6'2'' lenny from mice and men comes over and wants to pet the baby, stand there and let him do it, and help change societies view of the male role in child rearing or tell him the back the **** up. Just sayin'.

Giselle wrote: »

Was lost on him

Nothing was lost on me in this thread. This is a thread for people to validate other peoples opinions, thank each others posts and get pats on the back for portraying a persona of paternalism. OMG aren't you all such fine strapping men able to express your blind love for children.

This is a discussion forum not a group therapy forum, therefore I see no need to partake in this circle jerking spectacle.

JimmyCrackCorn

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Khannie

UL_heart_throb wrote: »

Are you mindful of the piss **** and vomit you will have to clean up? Are you aware how much anxiety and worry comes with parenthood? Do you know how much of your free time you will lose?

I have 3 kids so far, so I'm intimate with the answer to all of these questions. I still want more.

These negative things that you focus on are only the tiniest part of parenthood and not in the slightest enough to tip the scales away from having more kids. Do I mop up puke sometimes? Sure. Do I worry? Sure. Are these what I think of when I think of my children? Not in the slightest. We laugh, we play, we eat together, we hug, we love, we share, we kiss, we wave goodbye every morning, we snuggle, I comfort them when they fall, I teach them, I watch them learn, I watch them grow, gain independence, help them to make the most of their their gifts, I protect them and enjoy doing it, and so on and so on and so on. It's great.

staker

UL_heart_throb wrote: »

OMG aren't you all such fine strapping men able to express your blind love for children.

This is a discussion forum not a group therapy forum, therefore I see no need to partake in this circle jerking spectacle.

We get that you don't see too many positives in wanting or having children,but your demeaning attitude towards myself and those that do makes me breathe a sigh of relief that you don't.

Circle jerking is far from what this thread is, we're just a set of fine strapping men who actually can maturely talk about the topic.

goingpostal1

I love this new video from a lady who explains why childfree is the way to go!!

goingpostal1

Before any man fathers kids in Ireland in 2012, maybe it would be worth his while to find out how fathers, especially unmarried fathers, are treated by the courts in this country.

Panthro

goingpostal1 wrote: »

Before any man fathers kids in Ireland in 2012, maybe it would be worth his while to find out how fathers, especially unmarried fathers, are treated by the courts in this country.

That's all well and good but that is not really what this topic is about, and I don't want this topic to turn into a discussion about the Irish Court system, so please stay on the topic.

3DataModem

OP...

Go for it. Have kids. They're great. Find a bird who wants em too, shack up for a while to see if you get on, then get married and have some kids.

You'll not regret it. Sure, your mates will be doing lots of other fun stuff, weekends away, etc, while you're changing nappies and covering schoolbooks. But you'll be more or less done by the time you are 40, and you'll have the best of both worlds.

All above post serious and heartfelt. Why wait?

goingpostal1

The definition of the adjective; broody: • informal (of a woman) having a strong desire to have a baby.

Any guy who feels "broody" is going to run up against the brick wall of his biological limitations pretty quickly.:D:D:D;)

opinion guy

goingpostal1 wrote: »

I love this new video from a lady who explains why childfree is the way to go!!

Well thats a bit of a self-indulgent rant to be fair - and frankly I'm one of those who doesn't understand the broody thing.
but at about 8:20 - 8:40 this made me laugh:

ranting_girl wrote:

I mean probably everybody thinks that their kid will be smart & kind & talented & happy. And yet there are alot of people who end up committing suicide, or get horrible terminal illnesses, or become rapists, or murders.....or Justin Beiber fans.....ugh

goingpostal1

Well thats a bit of a self-indulgent rant to be fair

How exactly is not wanting to add to the 7 billion homo sapiens who already live on a planet that is rapidly becoming inhospitable and incapable of supporting life, due to global warming and diminishing resources, self-indulgent?

opinion guy

goingpostal1 wrote: »

How exactly is not wanting to add to the 7 billion homo sapiens who already live on a planet that is rapidly becoming inhospitable and incapable of supporting life, due to global warming and diminishing resources, self-indulgent?

I didn't mean her not wanting children belief. I meant the way she goes about it, the examples she uses, the things she bitches about - comes across as a stroppy teenager to be honest. and mostly is not nearly so funny as she thinks. Talking for the sake of talking.

goingpostal1

opinion guy wrote: »

I didn't mean her not wanting children belief. I meant the way she goes about it, the examples she uses, the things she bitches about - comes across as a stroppy teenager to be honest. and mostly is not nearly so funny as she thinks. Talking for the sake of talking.

It seems to me that she has given far more thought to the topic of parenthood, than an awful lot of people who blindly stumble into the role of parent, the most difficult job there is, with the minimum of thought about what they are getting themselves into.

opinion guy

goingpostal1 wrote: »

It seems to me that she has given far more thought to the topic of parenthood, than an awful lot of people who blindly stumble into the role of parent, the most difficult job there is, with the minimum of thought about what they are getting themselves into.

Yeah true. But then they didn't make a v-log about there decision to have children.
Sorry perhaps I should have said I find something very self-indulgent in general about randomers making vlogs about stuff as if they were modern day philosophers speaking truth to the masses.

goingpostal1

opinion guy wrote: »

Yeah true. But then they didn't make a v-log about there decision to have children.
Sorry perhaps I should have said I find something very self-indulgent in general about randomers making vlogs about stuff as if they were modern day philosophers speaking truth to the masses.

This is a valid point, which I appreciate. However, on this particular topic, I appreciate anyone who will speak articulately against the absolute bombardment of pro-natalist, pro-family propaganda that we all encounter in the mass-media. Turn on the radio and TV, and count how many times you hear the word "family" in an ad, or how many idealised, positive, one-sided images of family life you see. It is relentless. The other day, I heard an ad on the radio, for car tyres, that used protecting ones family as a hook to guilt people into buying new tyres. It is ridiculous.

seenitall

goingpostal1 wrote: »

Turn on the radio and TV, and count how many times you hear the word "fameily" in an ad, or how many idealised, positive, one-sided images of family life you see. It is relentless.

So true. I'm from Eastern Europe originally, and find the difference in the frequency of the word "family" in both societies, cropping up in all sorts of fora and media in Ireland, astounding. Ads, TV programmes, political discussions: family, family, family. (It doesn't take Einstein to figure out it's the hangover from the Catholic ethos.)

(Then again, Eastern Europe as a whole is wiping itself out biologically, with fertility rates around 1.5 in most of it. So that's not a happy situation either.)

UL_heart_throb

Khannie wrote: »

I have 3 kids so far, so I'm intimate with the answer to all of these questions. I still want more.

These negative things that you focus on are only the tiniest part of parenthood and not in the slightest enough to tip the scales away from having more kids. Do I mop up puke sometimes? Sure. Do I worry? Sure. Are these what I think of when I think of my children? Not in the slightest. We laugh, we play, we eat together, we hug, we love, we share, we kiss, we wave goodbye every morning, we snuggle, I comfort them when they fall, I teach them, I watch them learn, I watch them grow, gain independence, help them to make the most of their their gifts, I protect them and enjoy doing it, and so on and so on and so on. It's great.

And my comments weren't directed at you, or anyone like you. Some where along the way my treatise seems to have gotten lost.

My criticism was of people without kids, saying how much they love kids, based on their minute experience of the fun things about having kids.

I could have made a different but similar criticism of people without kids, deglamourising the parental experience, which appears i am being demonised for now.

I don't even know what you posted, other than to explain the reason why you like having kids. Which, i don't think is anyway relelvant to the conversation but gives some weak minded people something to thank.

nkay1985

I'm going to avoid all the shite that's managed to make its way into this thread and go back on topic.

I know exactly where you're coming from OP. I've always loved kids. We've a very big extended family so there were always kids of any age around when I was growing up. Then my mother minded two kids for friends of theirs from when they were only born while I was a teenager so I played a fairly significant part in that too.

I'm now 26 and thankfully I have met the right person. We're married and reasonably financially secure so hopefully we'll have some little kiddies of our own soon. For now, my wife's got a niece and nephew so I see them a lot, a good few of our friends have started to have kids and my mam's now minding my little cousin a couple of days a week so there's still a baby on the scene. The two that we minded since they were babies are now reaching their teens and it's amazing to see how they've developed. Same goes for our friend's daughter who's 7 now and is so sharp. I can't wait to hopefully see kids of my own grow up and develop.

I've always been completely comfortable with being this way and I have to say I've never had any negative experiences, thankfully.

You're definitely not alone out there and, in my experience, being confident and happy around children has never been a negative!

sam34

UL_heart_throb wrote: »

I don't even know what you posted, other than to explain the reason why you like having kids. Which, i don't think is anyway relelvant to the conversation but gives some weak minded people something to thank.

infracted for the petty insult. if you can't post without resorting to that crap then don't post.

no further warnings.

tbh

UL_heart_throb wrote: »

And my comments weren't directed at you, or anyone like you. Some where along the way my treatise seems to have gotten lost.

My criticism was of people without kids, saying how much they love kids, based on their minute experience of the fun things about...

The point is, you don't know what experience anyone has with kids. Your first post seems, to me anyway, to suggest that if people really knew what having kids was like, they wouldn't want them. That's why I suggested you're afraid of them. As many posters including myself have pointed out since, its perfectly logical that a man can completely understand everything that is involved in raising a child and want to do it anyway.