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Child Item

(UK) Man loses 5 of his kids in a fire

Teyla Emmagan

I know there have been a load of threads on AH recently about 'welfare' families with a load of kids looking for bigger houses. Just heard about this on the radio though, and I don't think it's been brought up yet today. Anyway, there were 5 kids from the same family killed in a housefire in the UK today.

Here's a link to the always reliable Daily Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2142817/Derby-house-5-children-die-home-Mick-Philpott-father-17.html

Obviously this is a horrific tragedy. Even though the family in question had 17 kids, to lose 5 children in the one day?? That must be too much for the human soul to cope with.

The father in question seems to have been loving, if defensive about his 'lifestyle', and has been onto the council in Derby in recent years looking for a bigger house. Not sure a bigger house could have saved any more of them though. Fire can just run riot through a place. Unless they had a bungalow, with wings, I don't see how this tragedy could have been averted. Very sad.

Any thoughts AH?

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DEFTLEFTHAND

Dudess wrote: »

Burning down the house with no intent to harm anyone is nuts enough... but alleged intent to kill the children therein? Too much to process all together...

Its a complicated part of the legal system alright, there has been similar cases in Common Law which I'm sure were looked at in deciding the charge.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Deleted User wrote: »

Intent to harm is enough for murder I thought?

Intent to kill plus the physical act are needed. In this case the probability of their actions causing death were enough for the Crown Prosecution Service to recommend murder, it didn't matter that they may not have intended to kill anybody.

[Deleted User]

I'd be surprised if the CPS doesn't settle for Manslaughter in the end anyway.

[Deleted User]

omg why kill the kids and burn down the house a scam ?????

someone explain plz

flutterflye

Maybe I'm just incredibly naive, but I just can't believe that anyone would intend to kill their children for a new house.
I really think they must have just planned on burning the house, but had assumed they could get everyone out in time.
Maybe I have too much faith in humanity though.

[Deleted User]

flutterflye wrote: »

Maybe I'm just incredibly naive, but I just can't believe that anyone would intend to kill their children for a new house.
I really think they must have just planned on burning the house, but had assumed they could get everyone out in time.
Maybe I have too much faith in humanity though.

you still have faith in humanity

i was walking downtown and saw a 7-8 month gone pregnant girl smoking poor baby wtf is wrong with people

Jimoslimos

LH Pathe wrote: »

A murder charge in these circumstances paints a picture of the worst possible english family image so in finding no reason to not do so they must be on to something.

Think the wife is Irish, also remember seeing a pic of the kids on local news here - one of the boys had a Dublin GAA top on.

BorneTobyWilde

All aload of crap i think,
Unless they admitted to it, Or been forced to admit to it,
I don't get it , Burn house while kids are upstairs.
Makes no sense,

[Deleted User]

flutterflye wrote: »

Maybe I'm just incredibly naive, but I just can't believe that anyone would intend to kill their children for a new house.
I really think they must have just planned on burning the house, but had assumed they could get everyone out in time.
Maybe I have too much faith in humanity though.

I doubt they'll go for the murder charge in the end but if they set the fire and claim that they had no intent to harm anyone the only way that could be true would be if they're so ahem, mentally challenged, that they could never be integrated into society.

[Deleted User]

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

All aload of crap i think,
Unless they admitted to it, Or been forced to admit to it,
I don't get it , Burn house while kids are upstairs.
Makes no sense,

If they did it while everyone was away (hard to do) there would have been little publicity, a dramatic escape gets national publicity.

[Deleted User]

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

All aload of crap i think,
Unless they admitted to it, Or been forced to admit to it,
I don't get it , Burn house while kids are upstairs.
Makes no sense,

thats scum for you

who would of thought a load of muslums would fly planes into two towers makes no sence

mikemac1

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Think the wife is Irish, also remember seeing a pic of the kids on local news here - one of the boys had a Dublin GAA top on.

You're right

Some of the kids have Derby football shirts, makes sense living in Derby

One lad has a Dublin jersey

pic

My name is URL

Think I'll wait for a trial or further information to be made available before I pass judgement on the couple.

The police themselves have asked the public to show restraint on the matter, and have said that although people have been arrested or charged, the investigation is far from over.

Seriously like, if it was up to the public they'd be hanged already.

Smidge

In fairness, I don't think either one of these parents are rocket scientists.

My feeling is that drink was taken, thought they could probably set a "little" fire, just enough to do damage that would allow them to get a new house but not being rocket scientists they over estimated the amount of petrol used.

It just leaves tragedy in its wake

TheBegotten

Those poor kids. I'm sure they did nothing to deserve anything like this. I hope the perp swings for this.

Luap

When they were sobbing in front of the press the wife stopped for a split second and made eye contact with the husband. Looked very conspicuous.

LH Pathe

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Think the wife is Irish, also remember seeing a pic of the kids on local news here - one of the boys had a Dublin GAA top on.

*sigh* Put the two together n it's devastating. Know it only too well.. n they're the posh version. Locale wise anyhow my "cuz" is a cheltenham chav. aunt is a turncoat.. etc. Gotta be related to it to believe it for home is where the hurt is. Aspired to British citizenship so I'll have that Irish passport back pls

goodie2shoes

mishkalucy wrote: »

In fairness, I don't think either one of these parents are rocket scientists.

My feeling is that drink was taken, thought they could probably set a "little" fire, just enough to do damage that would allow them to get a new house but not being rocket scientists they over estimated the amount of petrol used.

It just leaves tragedy in its wake

i agree this is the most plausible explanation.
had their little "stunt" succeeded the attendant publicity, another appearance on chav TV etc. would also have been very tempting for them.

social welfare rules need changing so as not to encourage people like this from having so many kids in the first place. personally i feel that all benefits ought to be frozen after the 3rd child.

John Doe1

Anyone mention gerry and kate mccann yet?

Yakult

John Doe1 wrote: »

Anyone mention gerry and kate mccann yet?

Just you.

flutterflye

John Doe1 wrote: »

Anyone mention gerry and kate mccann yet?

Yup, you did.

Jimoslimos

LH Pathe wrote: »

*sigh* Put the two together n it's devastating. Know it only too well.. n they're the posh version. Locale wise anyhow my "cuz" is a cheltenham chav. aunt is a turncoat.. etc. Gotta be related to it to believe it for home is where the hurt is. Aspired to British citizenship so I'll have that Irish passport back pls

What? I wasn't trying to argue people should feel more emotional because of an Irish connection, just not to be so quick to dish out derogatory terms about lower/working class English, chavs, etc.

goodie2shoes wrote: »

social welfare rules need changing so as not to encourage people like this from having so many kids in the first place. personally i feel that all benefits ought to be frozen after the 3rd child.

Changing SW rules won't stop people like this having more kids. You think they stop just before sex and go "oh hold on, our budget is stretched - better take precautions".

Better education and opportunities do.

goodie2shoes

Jimoslimos wrote: »

What? I wasn't trying to argue people should feel more emotional because of an Irish connection, just not to be so quick to dish out derogatory terms about lower/working class English, chavs, etc.

Changing SW rules won't stop people like this having more kids. You think they stop just before sex and go "oh hold on, our budget is stretched - better take precautions".

Better education and opportunities do.

i disagree the SW system encourages people like this to have kids. the more kids they have, the more SW they receive.
you don't need a PhD in Economics to work that out.:rolleyes:

LH Pathe

Jimoslimos wrote: »

What? I wasn't trying to argue people should feel more emotional because of an Irish connection, just not to be so quick to dish out derogatory terms about lower/working class English, chavs, etc.

you got it.

But I believe class distinction to be attained by the individual; in culture and morals as opposed to etiquette or locale or education.

Smidge

goodie2shoes wrote: »

i agree this is the most plausible explanation.
had their little "stunt" succeeded the attendant publicity, another appearance on chav TV etc. would also have been very tempting for them.

social welfare rules need changing so as not to encourage people like this from having so many kids in the first place. personally i feel that all benefits ought to be frozen after the 3rd child.

Ah come on Goodie, surely you must see that this is not a representation of people on social welfare?????????????

Are you saying that all people on SW who have more than 3 children are capable of incinerating them just to get a bigger house?

This has nothing to do with SW.
It has everything thing to do with the people who are not mentally sound

micropig

goodie2shoes wrote: »

i disagree the SW system encourages people like this to have kids. the more kids they have, the more SW they receive.
you don't need a PhD in Economics to work that out.:rolleyes:

I agree, SW as it stands, does encourage some people of that frame of mind to keeping having children, there needs to be a cut off point where people have to take responsibility. If not the state steps in to support their lifestyle. Maybe the state should step in and sterilise?

Kate & Gerry Mc Cann

Is that guy still chained up outside the offices in Limerick demanding a bigger house?

This case in the UK is tragic. Whether they set it or not, the children didn't deserve it.

A judge in England yesterday let off a mother whose son drunk fertilizer she had for growing cannabis. She was asleep and the child (2-3?) was thirsty. Unfortunately he died. She was laughing leaving the court. The judge said she had suffered enough. So...........?

Smidge

Micropig

Were you on holiday???????????????

charlemont

flutterflye wrote: »

Maybe I'm just incredibly naive, but I just can't believe that anyone would intend to kill their children for a new house.
I really think they must have just planned on burning the house, but had assumed they could get everyone out in time.
Maybe I have too much faith in humanity though.

Its happening here too, Just nobody killed yet, Only a matter of time though.

micropig

mishkalucy wrote: »

Micropig

Were you on holiday???????????????

I got addicted to real life there for a while, It just sucked me right in and kept me AFK*. It was 24/7, Rough going:D

*AFK- Away From Keyboard

goodie2shoes

mishkalucy wrote: »

Ah come on Goodie, surely you must see that this is not a representation of people on social welfare?????????????

Are you saying that all people on SW who have more than 3 children are capable of incinerating them just to get a bigger house?

This has nothing to do with SW.
It has everything thing to do with the people who are not mentally sound

no of course i am not saying "all people on SW who have more than 3 children are capable of incinerating them just to get a bigger house". that's just plain silly.

however what i am saying is the SW system incentifies people to have large families and needs to be changed. if these people had to earn ie work in order to have & rear their kids, then they wouldn't have so many. most folk i know have 2, 3 kids max 'cos they cant afford to have any more.

i know these concepts may be difficult to grasp, but please try.:(