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Is Atheism a religion?

Malpaisian

Discuss!

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Ghost Buster

HUNK wrote: »

Its kind of ironic to see some religious people use the term 'religion' as an insult.

Perhaps deep deep deep down they realise........

Malpaisian

bluewolf wrote: »

lol

WTF

Malpaisian

ShooterSF wrote: »

If both faith in religion and trust based on a prior constant effort to refine itself that we can see in science are the same things then tell me this; When you are ill will you seek a doctor or faith healer? You have no personal evidence that one can help you more than the other. Or deep down do you realise the difference between trusting people who have shown a desire for the truth over those with a desire to protect their dogma?

If your trust is in the constant effort of others and their conclusions,in a context of not having verified their processes and conclusions yourself, then you are relying on faith. I see your point though.

But tell me this. Just because you know that doctors (with the aid of science) can cure people or save their lives, does that make all science trustworthy. Is science completely free from agenda, corruption and manipulation. Religion has used lies,dogma and fear to mould people's perceptions and control them for thousands of years.Is it possible that science could be used in a similar way?

ShooterSF

If both faith in religion and trust based on a prior constant effort to refine itself that we can see in science are the same things then tell me this; When you are ill will you seek a doctor or faith healer? You have no personal evidence that one can help you more than the other. Or deep down do you realise the difference between trusting people who have shown a desire for the truth over those with a desire to protect their dogma?

Zombrex

Malpaisian wrote: »

No, this is the way I'd put it. A belief in science, for the vast, vast majority of people on earth, is an act of faith. It has to be!

What does a belief in science entail?

Malpaisian

HUNK wrote: »

Its kind of ironic to see some religious people use the term 'religion' as an insult.

Which "religious" are you refering to? Me?

Malpaisian

Dades wrote: »

And many atheists have no opinion whatsoever about creationists. What was your point again?

My point is that many do. Not just opinions but opinons based on beliefs.

Indeed, and many atheists don't have an opinion either way. Are those atheists part of the *religion* too?

Perhaps not. But if they hold other beliefs they may,shock horror, be subscribers to a belief system.

Really? Is science based on a collection of old books written millennia ago by people in the middle east?

Well there are some old books involved allright. On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life is one which springs to mind. I suppose that one's not that old though. Still, just because something is new it does not mean it's improved, eh.

No, this is the way I'd put it. A belief in science, for the vast, vast majority of people on earth, is an act of faith. It has to be!

[Deleted User]

Malpaisian wrote: »

In that post I was trying to get people who could do little more than engage in sneering ad hominems to actually engage with the points I was making.

Malpaisian wrote: »

I like you. I can tell you are not a fundamentalist like some of the others.

lol

Malpaisian

koth wrote: »

it was an attempt at a joke, which obviously didn't land.

Your post that I quoted taken in isolation could have been read to say, "I don't exist" because the phrasing was so similar to the saying, "I think, therefore I am".

As to the rest of your posts, I don't see how not believing in any deities means someone is a member of a religion.

I like you. I can tell you are not a fundamentalist like some of the others.

[Deleted User]

Sarky wrote: »

I kinda miss dead one

he's happily trotting off following dades around

im expecting him to start following me again to call me a witch

Sarky

I kinda miss dead one

Malpaisian

Fortyniner wrote: »

Here's a contribution from the OP in August last year:

'I have no interest in religion or religious forums. I've given far more evidence than you've given to the contrary. You are still doing your cowardly little drive-by postings without actually saying anything yourself.

Why don't you have the guts to do the following things for me:

1) Tell me exactly what you think about the BBC (and the mainstream news-media in general), It's real purpose and the veracity or otherwise of its reportage.

I have already asked you to do this, but you seem unwilling for some reason.

2)Define what you mean by "evidence"

3)Define what you mean by "opinion"

4)Make an effort to actually engage, in detail ,with the points I've made and the examples I've given to back them up.

5) Tell me exactly what you find amusing and why. (pathetic little comments like: "Amusing, for a number of reasons"
are a poor replacement for real arguments)

6) Tell me what is your interest in this conversation. Do you work for the media? Have you some agenda?

If you cannot do these simple things, then you are either incapable and/or cowardly.'

source: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=74116162

I think this thread should be closed..

You are obviously only in favour of people being allowed to express beliefs and opinions of which you (and your fellow groupthinkers) approve and which you deem to be legitamte. You are no differet to any Christian or Muslim fundamentalist in that regard.

I fail to see why you have chosen to drag up an old, completely unrelated post of mine and place it, completely out of it's original context, in a completely different thread about a completely different subject.

In that post I was trying to get people who could do little more than engage in sneering ad hominems to actually engage with the points I was making. These people, as all groupthinkers do, also routinely dismissed everything that I was saying by saying I had no "evidence" and that I was expressing "opinion".

Well, I think it is very fair (indeed "logical and scientific") to ask them to define what they mean by "evidence" and "opinion" and to lay out what it is that they believe so that their beliefs can be judged by their own standards and definitions.

So what exactly is your problem and who are you to try and silenece me, the Ayatollah?

Malpaisian

Doctor DooM wrote: »

It's not clever, it's the standard response given whenever anyone comes up with the tired an incorrect premise of this thread.

Look, Bison riding a Bison:

Hey, fundamentalist Christians like standard responses to!

[Deleted User]

Malpaisian wrote: »

Your first scientific mistake was to assume that I am, in any way, religious or that I believe in the existance of a God.

Religious people do try to use the argument from time to time. The last time I heard it was "I have faith the traffic lights won't change when I drive through a crossroads"

How's that for a mistake?

Dades

Malpaisian wrote: »

Well, many of you seem to "believe" that Creationists etc are mad,sad or bad or all three.

And many atheists have no opinion whatsoever about creationists. What was your point again?

Malpaisian wrote: »

Many of you seem to have a similar faith in science to a creationists faith in God. I presume you personally believe that when you die you will cease to exist in any form that's alive or sentient. Many atheists share a belief in the big bang theory and the theory of evolution. Many believe that they are RIGHT and that what they believe is the only logical thing to believe.

Indeed, and many atheists don't have an opinion either way. Are those atheists part of the *religion* too?

Malpaisian wrote: »

Many of you seem to have a similar faith in science to a creationists faith in God.

Really? Is science based on a collection of old books written millennia ago by people in the middle east?

You should remind your doctor of this next time you request an antibiotic.

Doctor DooM

Malpaisian wrote: »

That is sooooooo clever! Well done you!

It's not clever, it's the standard response given whenever anyone comes up with the tired an incorrect premise of this thread.

Look, Bison riding a Bison:

Delirium

Malpaisian wrote: »

Nah, I'm just someone who can't help but examine the machine

it was an attempt at a joke, which obviously didn't land.

Your post that I quoted taken in isolation could have been read to say, "I don't exist" because the phrasing was so similar to the saying, "I think, therefore I am".

As to the rest of your posts, I don't see how not believing in any deities means someone is a member of a religion.

Turtwig

Malpaisian wrote: »

I don't have a religion.

Oh yes you do! Your religion is the religion of not having a religion. :rolleyes:

Malpaisian

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby...

That is sooooooo clever! Well done you!

Malpaisian

koth wrote: »

you mean you're a ghost in the machine? :eek::P

Nah, I'm just someone who can't help but examine the machine

Malpaisian

bluewolf wrote: »

I don't know why some religious people try the "see, you're as bad as me for relying on faith!" approach
not exactly doing themselves any favours

Your first scientific mistake was to assume that I am, in any way, religious or that I believe in the existance of a God.

You also seem content to just be dismissive of the argument I made instead of engaging with it. Have you ever been to "Speakers Corner" in London and tried to argue with any of the various fundamentalists there? That's exactly what they do.

Malpaisian

bluewolf wrote: »

Science can be tested
I can go off and learn these things and head into a lab and test it myself

Have you done this?

you can never ever do that with your religion
end of

I don't have a religion.

joseph brand

bluewolf wrote: »

I don't know why some religious people try the "see, you're as bad as me for relying on faith!" approach
not exactly doing themselves any favours

If they believe in Noah's Ark, then anything is possible.

“Some people say Chris ‘don’t you ever get tired of arguing with the religious?’ No absolutely I don’t because you never know what they’re going to say next.”
— Christopher Hitchens

It's interesting how so many catholics know so little about the bible, yet, the Atheists are better educated in the bible and it's horse-****tery.

Malpaisian

mallachyrivers wrote: »

No it's not

Yes it Is

[Deleted User]

Science can be tested
I can go off and learn these things and head into a lab and test it myself

you can never ever do that with your religion
end of

Malpaisian

Dades wrote: »

Lack thereof. Clearly it's not a belief system.

The word "system" suggests a set of beliefs rather than the one "lack of belief" that constitutes atheism in it's entirety.

Well, many of you seem to "believe" that Creationists etc are mad,sad or bad or all three. Many of you seem to have a similar faith in science to a creationists faith in God. I presume you personally believe that when you die you will cease to exist in any form that's alive or sentient. Many atheists share a belief in the big bang theory and the theory of evolution. Many believe that they are RIGHT and that what they believe is the only logical thing to believe.

[Deleted User]

I don't know why some religious people try the "see, you're as bad as me for relying on faith!" approach
not exactly doing themselves any favours

[Deleted User]

Malpaisian wrote: »

I presume that you only believe in things that can be observed or detected directly by you using your senses and instruments which you have designed, having a full understanding of how they work and in the full knowlege that these instruments are failsafe. I presume, also, that you have carried out these studies out of a pure desire to discover and learn and you are free from any other agenda or patronage.

If not, then you are relying on faith.

If they're so inclined they can go off and independently verify these things
they can certainly test to see they work even if they don't understand the mechanics

completely unlike what you're claiming

Malpaisian

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Atheism is a refusal/failure/inability/unwillingness to believe the unbelievable. Atheists believe only things that can be observed or detected with the senses or instruments.:rolleyes:

I presume that you only believe in things that can be observed or detected directly by you using your senses and instruments which you have designed, having a full understanding of how they work and in the full knowlege that these instruments are failsafe. I presume, also, that you have carried out these studies out of a pure desire to discover and learn and you are free from any other agenda or patronage.

If not, then you are relying on faith.

Dades

Malpaisian wrote: »

Well which is it?

Lack thereof. Clearly it's not a belief system.

The word "system" suggests a set of beliefs rather than the one "lack of belief" that constitutes atheism in it's entirety.