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Irish Olympic Marathon selection put on long finger

rom

London A standard now with 3 places

Ava Hutchinson 2:35:33
Catriona Jennings 2:36:14
Linda Byrne 2:36:21
Maria McCambridge 2:36:37

from http://corkrunning.blogspot.com/2012/03/maria-mccambridge-qualifies-for-london.html "The important point here though is that Ireland can only send three women athletes to the Marathon in the Olympics. There are still Marathons like Barcelona at the end of March and Rotterdam in early April and someone else may yet post a qualifying time from those. In light of that, the 16 second difference between Byrne and McCambridge may yet be all important but it may come down to current form and consistency if someone has to be dropped."

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TJC

Clum wrote: »

The real reason the decision date was put in June was so Athletics Ireland could spend half of April and May working out the results for the national 10km championships. One thing at a time...

HAHAHAAAAA!!!:D:D:D:D

TJC

Pherekydes wrote: »

They should have set the date for the day after London, but it's too late to change it now. Others are attempting to qualify. It's only fair that they get the chance.

True on both accounts..

drrunner

I would be no great defender of how AAI conduct their business with regard to placing athletes at the forefront of consideration, however I do have a little bit of sympathy for them in this situation. 12 months ago it would have been impossible for a lot of people to realistically believe that we would have 4 qualifiers in the women's marathon and so maximising the qualifying period would have seemed like a good idea. Clearly, it would also be impossible and unfair to move the goalposts for anyone still seeking qualification. However, the situation has been exacerbated by the vagueness of the criteria by which selection will be made in a case like this. What would be really helpful right now would be if AAI published a clear set of criteria by which they will make their decision allowing for potential additional qualifiers (e.g. the fastest 3 times or whatever...)...however chance would be a fine thing

robinph

Name two people now, let them get ready, one spot left open until June for the chance that someone else makes a time.

ChickenTikka

I'd have to agree with the AAI sticking to the original date they publicised for qualification standards to be met. To do anything else would be an injustice when some athletes may be out there preparing with that date in mind. Whether we agree or not with the date, fact is thats the date that was set. Any arguments over the date should have been had before it was set. Its easy to be wise in hindsight.

myflipflops

drrunner wrote: »

I would be no great defender of how AAI conduct their business with regard to placing athletes at the forefront of consideration, however I do have a little bit of sympathy for them in this situation. 12 months ago it would have been impossible for a lot of people to realistically believe that we would have 4 qualifiers in the women's marathon and so maximising the qualifying period would have seemed like a good idea. Clearly, it would also be impossible and unfair to move the goalposts for anyone still seeking qualification. However, the situation has been exacerbated by the vagueness of the criteria by which selection will be made in a case like this. What would be really helpful right now would be if AAI published a clear set of criteria by which they will make their decision allowing for potential additional qualifiers (e.g. the fastest 3 times or whatever...)...however chance would be a fine thing

This is right.

For all the comments having a pop at the AAI here, the selection agreement has been in place for a long time and nobody had a problem with it until now. They can't change the goalposts just because we are in the seemingly unlikely position of having 4 qualifiers.

The time to take issue with the late team selection was months ago, not now.

meathcountysec

Peckham wrote: »

How will they select the three? Some people around a table making a subjective judgment, or something more transparent than that?

The nomination policy was announced last February:

http://hp.athleticsireland.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=123:2012-athletics-ireland-olympic-games-nomination-policy&catid=42:team-event

thirtyfoot

Who would people select?

I'd go Ava, Linda and Catriona. Dropping Maria. She raced previously at Olympics albeit kicking and screaming so to exclude her could cause huge issues. But leaving those reasons aside and purely athletics based I'd pick the those three.

shels4ever

I'd go with Ava, Linda and Maria , Maria based on here performance over the last few years she has a few good marathons and i'd expect her to run well in London if selected, Linda as national cham and Ava as the fastest time so far but if her time has been closed to Catriona's it would have been a close call.

myflipflops

Linda Byrne is a given in my opinion. Being the national marathon champion and 10k champ on the roads has to count for something. Also, her age is a major factor. She has lots of marathons and lots of potential major champs in front of her (standards allowing).

Ava Hutchinson should be picked too. Again, her age counts and she has the fastest PB.

After that, i could not call. Maria McCambridge has been a brilliant servant (TM every rugby journo in the country) of Irish athletics. Jennings has come to the sport late and shown a large amount of talent and promise.

Whatever happens, there are arguments for them all and it will be incredibly tough on the person to miss out. Gun to head and based on purely athletics reasons: Byrne, Hutchinson and Jennings.

T runner

myflipflops wrote: »

This is right.

For all the comments having a pop at the AAI here, the selection agreement has been in place for a long time and nobody had a problem with it until now. They can't change the goalposts just because we are in the seemingly unlikely position of having 4 qualifiers.

The time to take issue with the late team selection was months ago, not now.

I'm sure plenty of people may have had a problem with it. The athletes can't really have a go until it becomes an issue.

It's up to the aai to work this out. If someone qualifies on may20 there is simply not enough time to prepare adequately for the Olympic marathon. This was just bad planning.

They should keep the policy they have advertised, but any qualifiers in late may unles they are considerably faster, are obviously at a huge disadvantage come he Olympics due to the aais I'll thought out cut off time.

RacoonQueen

Linda should be a definite, they all raced each other in DCM and she beat the 3 of them, right?

Pherekydes

myflipflops wrote: »

Linda Byrne is a given in my opinion. Being the national marathon champion and 10k champ on the roads has to count for something. Also, her age is a major factor. She has lots of marathons and lots of potential major champs in front of her (standards allowing).

Ava Hutchinson should be picked too. Again, her age counts and she has the fastest PB.

After that, i could not call. Maria McCambridge has been a brilliant servant (TM every rugby journo in the country) of Irish athletics. Jennings has come to the sport late and shown a large amount of talent and promise.

Whatever happens, there are arguments for them all and it will be incredibly tough on the person to miss out. Gun to head and based on purely athletics reasons: Byrne, Hutchinson and Jennings.

Agree with this nearly word for word. I'd hate to be the one to tell the one omitted. She'll probably hear of it on "Off the Ball".

myflipflops

T runner wrote: »

It's up to the aai to work this out. If someone qualifies on may20 there is simply not enough time to prepare adequately for the Olympic marathon. This was just bad planning.
.

I agree, anyone qualifying on May 20th needs to do something special because of the time scale to London.

I do say it is only considered bad planning because of the scenario that 4 had qualified. Not many people would have predicted this happening. If we were sitting here with 1 or 2 athletes qualified and Linda Byrne and Ava Hutchinson planning late May attempts at the standard after failing in Dublin/Hueston then we would all be cheering them on and they would be grateful for the extra time.

TJC

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Linda should be a definite, they all raced each other in DCM and she beat the 3 of them, right?

Thats very true... And she beat them all hands down on a difficult day for tunning. Although she ran a smarter race than the others that day which helped.

Ava has to go also. Quickest of 4...and her age in her favour.

For me its gona be a close call between the other 2.

Everyone wants to see Maria there after all she has done over the years. She was flying n Rome before hitting the cobbles...but that was her choice to run there i suppose..

Catriona ran a great time having been injured for a few weeks and with very few races under her belt. Was also a bit windy on race day. This would all suggest she has more in her. She would therefore be my choice...her time is also quicker than Maria.

Bad planning by AAI alright but sure we're used to aai by now. It#s a pity the girls cant just get on with their training / lives. Will be very disappointing for the one who misses out....but then again things could always change with injuries etc. (touching would yhey don't as i say that!)

Anyway best of luck to the 4 of them. Been great following their progress over last year..... 3/4 to choose. What a great problem...

T runner

myflipflops wrote: »

I agree, anyone qualifying on May 20th needs to do something special because of the time scale to London.

I do say it is only considered bad planning because of the scenario that 4 had qualified. Not many people would have predicted this happening. If we were sitting here with 1 or 2 athletes qualified and Linda Byrne and Ava Hutchinson planning late May attempts at the standard after failing in Dublin/Hueston then we would all be cheering them on and they would be grateful for the extra time.

Only one of the 5 criteria given for selecting athletes is for actually chieving the Olympic standards. The others are for distinguishing athletes who have already reached the standard. These criteria are for all Athletic events so clearly the possibility of more than 3 athletes qualifying has been thoroughly considered and take 4 out of 5 selection criteria. Also the marathon and race walk selections are earlier than others so clearly some realisation that more preparation is necessary is there.
The athletes were asked to sign an acknowledgemment of the selection criteria so they had absolutely no input in them and Patsy McGonnigles implication that athletes had shifted their position by complaining now is not correct.
Not allowing sufficient time for race preparation after selection is a blunder in planning and rests solely at the AAIs door.
Just because they didnt get lucky and have the consequences of the mistake
minimised by having fewer women than the quota with the A standard makes no difference to the poorness of the planning.
Best of luck to whomever is going for the time. It will have to be a good one: 3 of the 5 criteria for selection are concerned with race preparation.

i.e an athlete who legitimately reaches an A standard in the requisite timeframe could be penalised in 3 of the 5 selection criteria because of the closeness of her/his qualifying date to the deadline of the timeframe. Surely points to a glaring error in the parameters of that timeframe?

TheRoadRunner

If I had to pick 3 strongest runners IMO it would be Byrne, mccambridge and Hutchinson. Hutchinson may suffer as she is not based in Ireland (I think). Having said all of that, I feel for Jennings and would feel sorry if she missed out.

Byrne is a must, beat them all in Dublin and is national champ. National 10k champ on road also although I don't think that should count for much.

It would be nearly better if one of them got injured at this stage and had to rule themselves out. I know that sounds awful but as said above I'd hate to be the one to break the bad news to the unlucky one.

Whatever the result their will be conspiracy and counter conspiracy stories.

Pisco Sour

Just had a thought, and perhaps it is flawed but here it goes. Most of us here (myself included) tend to harp on about athletes (particularly young ones) needing to be sent to the Olympics for experience, so that it will stand to them for future Games'. Well Maria is the only one with that valuable Olympic experience, so would it not be a bit hypocritical to leave her at home? Surely Olympic experience has to be a huge factor in deciding who goes? I realise she wasn't very very young when she competed in the Olympics, but even still, she has what neither of the other 3 have, and her qualifying time is close to the others. IMO she has to go if that argument about "experience" is ever to be taken seriously.

TheRoadRunner

04072511 wrote: »

Just had a thought, and perhaps it is flawed but here it goes. Most of us here (myself included) tend to harp on about athletes (particularly young ones) needing to be sent to the Olympics for experience, so that it will stand to them for future Games'. Well Maria is the only one with that valuable Olympic experience, so would it not be a bit hypocritical to leave her at home? Surely Olympic experience has to be a huge factor in deciding who goes? I realise she wasn't very very young when she competed in the Olympics, but even still, she has what neither of the other 3 have, and her qualifying time is close to the others. IMO she has to go if that argument about "experience" is ever to be taken seriously.

But what about giving somebody else the experience with the view they could push on from it? This will probably mccambridges last Olympics. I see your logic though.

runjb

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0505/1224315653146.html

They've brought the date forward to May 21st. So at least it's someway sooner...

brutes1

What are the chances of any one else hitting the times , as far as I can see Prague and Copenhagen only chances left ...??...

thirstywork2

Womens marathon team will be announced Monday :eek:

Izoard

Could be 5 into 3, if Barbara Sanchez does the business in Copenhagen over the weekend...

RacoonQueen

As expected it's McCambridge that misses out.

Following the meeting the athletes nominated for selection are:

50km Race Walks:
Rob Heffernan
Brendan Boyce
Colin Griffin
Men’s Marathon
Mark Kenneally
Women’s Marathon
Linda Byrne
Ava Hutchinson
Caitriona Jennings

Hard Worker

RacoonQueen wrote: »

As expected it's McCambridge that misses out.

Following the meeting the athletes nominated for selection are:

50km Race Walks:
Rob Heffernan
Brendan Boyce
Colin Griffin
Men’s Marathon
Mark Kenneally
Women’s Marathon
Linda Byrne
Ava Hutchinson
Caitriona Jennings

As expected....?

I thought she would have been selected.
It must have been a difficult job for the selectors and I don't envy them.

Middle Distance

I would love to know what selection criteria they used because if they were going on current form Maria would have to be the next selected after Linda Byrne. Would like to know how the selectors came to their decision to drop Maria rather than anyone else!!!!

shels4ever

Middle Distance wrote: »

I would love to know what selection criteria they used because if they were going on current form Maria would have to be the next selected after Linda Byrne. Would like to know how the selectors came to their decision to drop Maria rather than anyone else!!!!

Yep everything set down seemed to suggest maria would be selected, but then again that was just my reading of the criteria. Best of luck to the girls selected.

RacoonQueen

Hard Worker wrote: »

As expected....?

Sorry, as I expected...

Pisco Sour

So much for the whole argument of sending B-Standards to the Olympics to gain valuable Olympic experience. Maria is the only one with such experience and it seems like she may have been punished because of it. How can such a point be taken seriously now.

Not an easy job for the selectors but would be nice if they made public the reasons behind the selection.

RacoonQueen

04072511 wrote: »

So much for the whole argument of sending B-Standards to the Olympics to gain valuable Olympic experience. Maria is the only one with such experience and it seems like she may have been punished because of it. How can such a point be taken seriously now.

Not an easy job for the selectors but would be nice if they made public the reasons behind the selection.

My guess would be they want to give these 3 experience thinking they'll qualify again in 2016. Main reason I expected Maria to miss out was because the other three are younger than her and are more likely to be looking to run again in Rio.