eircom phonewatch & upc

KoolKid wrote: »

You can get rid of that Eircom master socket alltogether, you don't need it. The |L1 & L2 Seems to be the incoming line, discard that. & replace it with the pair coming from your UPC modem connect the return from your alarm to the other pairs (Blue/blue white) & onto the socket for your phone. On the double socket you use the Green & Red connections only.

You lost me:D I have l1 &l2 on the very back on the socket, and l1& l2 on the socket with R between them. what about the pinky thing, that looks to be for the alarm? This is my first time even opening up this socket so I might as well be looking up a cows hole.

Edit: Ok playing around its L1&L2 on the rear image your talking about it think. I disconnected them and lost phone and bb that plug into that socket

Are those connections on the pink blocks going to the alarm?
If so you need to find which is in & which is the return.
I would guess the oranges are going to the alarm & the blues are this return. If so Take your pair from the UPC line & connect that to the oranges connect the blues to the socket you wish to plug your phone into.

KoolKid wrote: »

Are those connections on the pink blocks going to the alarm?
If so you need to find which is in & which is the return.
I would guess the oranges are going to the alarm & the blues are this return. If so Take your pair from the UPC line & connect that to the oranges connect the blues to the socket you wish to plug your phone into.

I looks like they are, on the pink blocks the oranges have "out" and blues have "in" written beside them should be show in the picture. Just out of curiosity say I got an rj11 stripped one end, connected the stripped end to our oranges and blue for the alarm and plug the other end into to upc modem would that work? So we would have the alarm connected and not the phone and just use the second rj11 port on the modem for the phone?

Forget about the Eircom socket alltogether,Everything is on one pair & it should go in this order :

RJ 11 from UPC modem into RJ 11 socket . Green & Red at rear to Orange/Orange White to alarm . Blue/Blue White from alarm to Red & Green on second socket . Plug your house phone into this socket.

Doylers wrote: »

You lost me:D I have l1 &l2 on the very back on the socket, and l1& l2 on the socket with R between them. what about the pinky thing, that looks to be for the alarm? This is my first time even opening up this socket so I might as well be looking up a cows hole.

Edit: Ok playing around its L1&L2 on the rear image your talking about it think. I disconnected them and lost phone and bb that plug into that socket

A simpler option is to run a cable from the UPC to the master socket. Disconnect the Eircom incoming line in L1 L2 and connect the line from the UPC into the L1 L2. This will make the master socket and any other sockets connected from the master socket a phone point. Then plug your phone into the front of the master socket.

Right lads I have a good idea of what to do now. Will go ahead and get upc actually in and i'll be ready to go when it does. Thanks for the advice.

Doylers wrote: »

Right lads I have a good idea of what to do now. Will go ahead and get upc actually in and i'll be ready to go when it does. Thanks for the advice.

Your welcome, if you have any problems let us know.

Solair

All the eircom phonewatch alarm uses is a very slow modem, it will work fine over a UPC line.

The only downside is that you would want to put some kind of UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply) on the UPC modem and put it somewhere secure i.e. where it won't be plugged out.

Eircom installed phonewatch with their Plug n' Play ISDN box, which is basically an ISDN analogue terminal adapter, and really from the analogue line interface point of view, it's no different from a UPC router/ATA other than the digital technology is a bit different, but the way an analogue phone / alarm hooks up is exactly the same!

If you find where the eircom line originally came into your house i.e. small junction box (like a bar of soap size) or the back of the eircom master socket (you will need to remove the face plate + the rear plate and get back to the actual two lugs marked L1 / L2 where the incoming line's connected.

Just connect your UPC modem's line to an RJ11 socket + connect the Red and Green (centre two terminals) to L1/L2 on the back of the eircom socket instead of the incoming eircom line. Use a bit of CAT5 cable.
Job done!

A phone line is a phone line, the signals either gets converted to digital at the exchange in the case of eircom, or in the box in your house in the case of UPC... the alarm doesn't know the difference.

A UPS will only work if the power cut is very localised.
If power is down in the area there is a good chance UPC will be down also.

Solair

KoolKid wrote: »

A UPS will only work if the power cut is very localised.
If power is down in the area there is a good chance UPC will be down also.

There are battery back ups in all of their fibre cabinets and at their distribution amp cabinets in Cork anyway. I don't think a power cut would have any impact on them tbh.

There may well have been directly line-powered amps without battery back-up in the old pre-UPC cable TV systems before broadband/phone and fibre-to-kerb were rolled out.

The major risk would be that the router could be switched off or disabled locally. (The same applies to Eircom's ISDN Plug & Play box)

However, if someone is determined to get in, they could easily enough cut an external phone line too. None of them are fortified to that extent.

I can't really see a UPC line being any less reliable or secure, once you've a small ups on the router and a long as the incoming cabling is relatively secure.

For the most part, an alarm system in a normal house is designed to make a burglar's life difficult / attract attention and create a whole load of hassle and attention and call the monitoring centre if it goes off.

If you have really serious security needs, you would want to be looking at something well beyond a domestic burglar alarm i.e. you'd be talking about the kind of security that is required for banks / high risk individuals and then you'd need things like secured lines and all that stuff.

For the average normal, house, that's totally over the top.

The vast majority of break-ins are low-tech opportunism.

I think phonewatch just like to keep things simple, so insist on a regular PSTN line.

Solair wrote: »

I think phonewatch just like to keep things simple, so insist on a regular PSTN line.

Or they want to keep the revenue going there way.
They choose to install a GSM to monitor an alarm, of course supplied with a sim that they can keep the revenue coming in on while telling people the UPC line won't work with there systems which is a lie as is proved by many a customer who connect the UPC direct to there alarm and send in signals to Eircom.

Its very convienent that whats simple for Eircom is also the most expensive.
What comes out of a UPC modem is identical to a regular land line as far as an alarm dialler is concerned.

They can't make money out of it. That is the difference.

Issues guys, connected up the red + green to l1 and l2 but im stuck. If i connect it to the back connection l1 and l2 I can get the phone to work when I plug it into that diagnostic plug yoke. In image two if I plug it here the phone works in the normal socket but the alarm doest connect to do a successful test, the alarm keeps saying phone test on its really annoying. Help:mad:

Edit: WERE GOOD

I never pushed the socket into the yoke(the main diagnostic thing) so we never have a connection as soon as I did the phone and alarm tested ok thanks guys

Another happy customer and another Eircom rep proved wrong..

Solair

It's actually worth noting that removing the front cover (faceplate) of a modern, white-coloured eircom or Telecom branded master socket will result in the extension wiring in your house being disconnected.

There are at least three different designs of socket around:

1) Older type beige sockets, which may have TE or P&T branding. These have no demarkation switches, and are just simple sockets. However, they weren't really designed for DIY-friendly wiring, and require push-down tools to connect cables and could be wired in different ways depending on what the installer did back in the 1980s! In general, they are just normal RJ11 sockets.

2) Introduced in the 90s sometime, white coloured sockets with a plate at the lower part that is removable. These have a magnet in the back of the faceplate. When the plate is removed, it three micro-switches close isolating the extension wiring!
The idea of this, is that it allows someone to test the line, with the internal wiring disconnected by removing the faceplate and plugging a phone in.

3) The latest generation of sockets have a test socket behind the faceplate. The extension wiring is connected to the faceplate itself and if that is removed, the internal sockets in your house are disconnected from the line. The idea is that a phone can be plugged into the 'raw' line to test for problems.

NB: These also have a setup that is used by phone watch to allow for line siezure and DSL filtering.

So, to access the eircom incoming line you need to first remove the faceplate, then remove the two screws at either side behind the face plate (same as screws on a light switch / socket) and the eircom line is connected to two lugs on the very back of the socket itself.

The terminals used are:

L1 & L2 (Line 1) - This corresponds to the centre two pins on an RJ11 plug or the red and green wires. Usually connected to the blue pair on a modern structured cabling system.

R = Ringer circuit. This should be ignored as it's only used for backwards compatibility with certain old-fashioned rotary dial phones.

S1 & S2 (Line 2) - This is for terminating a second line. Do not use this unless you have a second line.
The modern eircom master socket can cope with two lines.

There are various terminals on the faceplate / DSL filter plate marked ALARM and ISDN.
These allow monitored alarms, or the ISDN plug n' play (HiSpeed) box to be looped through.

Simple approach:

Leave ALL the master socket wiring exactly as is.
Get to the very back of the socket where the old (disconnected) eircom line terminated i.e. the thick wire coming in from outside or whatever it is.

Connect your UPC (or other) telephone service directly to these L1 and L2 lugs. - These correspond to the centre two pins on the phone cord coming out of your UPC box (red and green wire)

If you've older wiring, it may use little beige or brown junction boxes rather than master sockets. Try finding where the line comes in and connect the UPC phone line to here in place of the eircom line.

In general, I would strongly advise, particularly if there is a phone watch alarm involved, not to alter the wiring. They can be installed in various ways to allow for line seizure by the alarm and it's not always that obvious how it works, even though the circuit is actually very simple.

Also : MAKE SURE THAT THE EIRCOM LINE IS PHYSICALLY DISCONNECTED (AND SNIP THE WIRES LEAVING NO COPPER EXPOSED) - Eircom lines can present pretty high voltages i.e up to 90V 25Hz ringing signal, or various test voltages that could damage your UPC box should the two end up connected to the internal wiring simultaneously)

Doylers wrote: »

Issues guys, connected up the red + green to l1 and l2 but im stuck. If i connect it to the back connection l1 and l2 I can get the phone to work when I plug it into that diagnostic plug yoke. In image two if I plug it here the phone works in the normal socket but the alarm doest connect to do a successful test, the alarm keeps saying phone test on its really annoying. Help:mad:

Edit: WERE GOOD I never pushed the socket into the yoke(the main diagnostic thing) so we never have a connection as soon as I did the phone and alarm tested ok thanks guys

Good to hear you got it all sorted Doylers.
So much for a monitored alarm not working with UPC :rolleyes:

altor wrote: »

Good to hear you got it all sorted Doylers.
So much for a monitored alarm not working with UPC :rolleyes:

Cant believe the crap eircom said to me and even the other phones are working in their sockets

My mother wants to keep the monitoring service €300 a year :eek: Trying to convince her to forget it and let the alarm just dial one of us

Doylers wrote: »

Cant believe the crap eircom said to me and even the other phones are working in their sockets My mother wants to keep the monitoring service €300 a year :eek: Trying to convince her to forget it and let the alarm just dial one of us

People will soon learn of all the lies they tell

Is it a Simon system you have installed?

altor wrote: »

People will soon learn of all the lies they tell

Is it a Simon system you have installed?

Indeed they will. Yep its a Simon system

Doylers wrote: »

Indeed they will. Yep its a Simon system

I thought that, so that is a Concord and Simon that other people have tested and works with UPC. Shocking how they tell people it does not work with there systems.

Very easy to set this up self monitoring on the Simon. If you do decide to cancel the monitoring dont get fooled into the letter for them to charge to disconnect the system from the line. Easy to delete option 4,5 and 6 yourself when setting up the voice dialer. Any problems looking for the engineer code send me a P.M.

This is how it is done:

Drop the lid, enter engineer code.
Delete option 04 done.
Delete option 05 done.
Delete option 06 done.
Add option 43 "enter the phone number you want the alarm to ring" done.
Add option 44, 10 done.
Add option 17, 20, done.

For option 17 some of the Simon panels need to see 3 digits, so enter:
Add option 17, 020, done.

altor wrote: »

I thought that, so that is a Concord and Simon that other people have tested and works with UPC. Shocking how they tell people it does not work with there systems.

Very easy to set this up self monitoring on the Simon. If you do decide to cancel the monitoring dont get fooled into the letter for them to charge to disconnect the system from the line. Easy to delete option 4,5 and 6 yourself when setting up the voice dialer. Any problems looking for the engineer code send me a P.M.

This is how it is done:

Drop the lid, enter engineer code.
Delete option 04 done.
Delete option 05 done.
Delete option 06 done.
Add option 43 "enter the phone number you want the alarm to ring" done.
Add option 44, 10 done.
Add option 17, 20, done.

For option 17 some of the Simon panels need to see 3 digits, so enter:
Add option 17, 020, done.

Thanks for that i'll try and convince her, are their options that the system texts or calls 3 people?

kirving

KoolKid wrote: »

Another happy customer and another Eircom rep proved wrong..

He says he works for the company, but doens't know how the product works. So many salespeople like that. I doubt you'd be getting official reps on here saying the same kind of stuff about digital lines, etc.

Anyway, is it really fair to be branding him as an eircom rep, when he is not here in an official capacity such as on the Talk to eircom section of boards.ie? Also, aren't phonewatch technically a seperate company to eircom, even though they're owned by the eircom group?

I would say that an eircom connection would be a better bet in any case, since there is no modem needed locally, and it will still work in a power outage.

Doylers wrote: »

Thanks for that i'll try and convince her, are their options that the system texts or calls 3 people?

You would need to add a relay and voice dialer to get the system to ring 3 phones. The dialer on the Simon will only ring 1 phone but gives a description of the alarm activation.

Kevin Irving wrote: »

He says he works for the company, but doens't know how the product works. So many salespeople like that. I doubt you'd be getting official reps on here saying the same kind of stuff about digital lines, etc.

Anyway, is it really fair to be branding him as an eircom rep, when he is not here in an official capacity such as on the Talk to eircom section of boards.ie? Also, aren't phonewatch technically a seperate company to eircom, even though they're owned by the eircom group?

I would say that an eircom connection would be a better bet in any case, since there is no modem needed locally, and it will still work in a power outage.

Regardless of what he has said it has now being proved wrong.
If you ring P.W they themselves will tell you it wont work with UPC when it clearly does.
Any form of monitoring is reliant of one thing or another but to tell your customers it wont work when it clearly does is wrong. There option is then to sell them a GSM that can be blocked easily with a blocker without explaining the risks to them.

The Eircom reps here on boards have also claimed many times it doesn't work.

bob11

Hi There,

With the help of the guys here, I also got my Phonewatch alarm working with my UPC line ..

I did follow up with the UPC rep on Boards to ask why they are telling people that it doesn't work and this was the response that I got from their rep ..

Hi

I have been told the issue is actually the fact that our phone is powered by our modem, and when the power is cut, our modem switches off and so does your phone, hence the need for a gsm dialler

Thanks

******

Cheers,

Bob

LOL & not a mention of the GSM been jammed....
Every form of monitoring is subject to fail from one thing or another.
An alarm can fail under certain circumstances.

Should we be all telling lies saying no modems work?
No alarms work?
When UPC or Eircom are selling broadband do they say it won't work in your house because you use the ESB & if the ESB goes off your broadband won't work??

What utter nonsense to come out with to justify their lies after they are caught out.
I have, like everyone used Eircom for years & I can safely say their lines went down more times per year than my UPC.
Jeeezzz lads its 2012 most things depend on electric.
However one thing that doesn't is a GSM jammer, amazing how they hav't thought of that.