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Child Item

Abortion

LilyCricket

Should it be available here?

Regardless of circumstance?

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Ficheall

HOS 1997 wrote: »

Does anyone else thinks he resembles a young Brian Cowen?

Shopaholic01 does.

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Is it just me or does he look like Brian Cowen?

HOS 1997

Ficheall wrote: »

Shopaholic01 does.

I should read full thread in future before posting!

Local-womanizer

"TD smirks" makes news nowadays?

Next week, "Priest guffaws during communion, Eucharist outraged!"

Holy fuck, we have little to worry about...

skelliser

he did say

"well played"
and
"what is your real agenda"

Mal-Adjusted

Well... stop the f*&kin' presses!

fullstop

lazygal wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/mullen-reports-i-smirked-at-abortion-meeting-entirely-untrue-426635-Apr2012/

I'm sure Jesus would be proud of his attitude.

He ably demonstrates why the voters of the NUI panel need to get the finger out and stop him being elected if there's another Seanad election.

Shock bloody horror. I'm sure Jesus is proud of you too for getting offended over nothing.

eyescreamcone

Crea wrote: »

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Do you think aborted foetus' go to heaven??
Does the RCC think aborted foetus's go to heaven??

Well in the case of my sisters son who was still born - he was baptised on entering the church for his funeral mass so if I was religious he would be in heaven.
She found out at 30 weeks pregnant that her much wanted baby was missing a large parts of his brain and heart and so wouldn't survive for longer than a few mins outside the womb. She had to go for 8 weeks listening to people asking "when is the baby due?" knowing that he would die. She asked the docs if she could be induced early so she wouldn't have to go through this torture but alas no - not in Ireland. No induction before 38 weeks so she had 8 weeks of hiding in the house, alot of sedation and not being able to be left alone. Poor little fella didn't have the strength to keep going and died in the womb at 38 weeks.

There is a hospital in Liverpool who deals with these cases called "medical abortions" and they have stated that they deal with on average 2 Irish couples a week. That's just over 100 couples a year and that's just 1 hospital.

That's a disgrace
And then you read things like "Ireland is the safest place in the world to have a baby"
Of course it is if we export these cases!!!

I'd love to hear more medics speak out.
But are they afraid because of the "ethos" in their workplace!!!

LorraineMcFly

I would vote no on abortion if it came to it here. Except in extreme medical circumstances.
Simply because a babies heart starts beating at 5-6 weeks. They are a seperate human being with a right to life in my eyes. They have a nervous system capable of feeling pain by 9-10 weeks. Anyone who had an abortion and believed their baby felt no pain is kidding themselves.
If you get pregnant stupidly do the right thing and give the baby up for adoption. Abortion is the easy option.

smash

LorraineMcFly wrote: »

I would vote no on abortion if it came to it here. Except in extreme medical circumstances.
Simply because a babies heart starts beating at 5-6 weeks. They are a seperate human being with a right to life in my eyes. They have a nervous system capable of feeling pain by 9-10 weeks. Anyone who had an abortion and believed their baby felt no pain is kidding themselves.
If you get pregnant stupidly do the right thing and give the baby up for adoption. Abortion is the easy option.

In the same breath, you have no right to tell other people how to live their life.

LorraineMcFly

smash wrote: »

In the same breath, you have no right to tell other people how to live their life.

if there was a vote i would have a right - so your wrong. And i would vote no.
If people want to believe abortion is not murder and that a baby feels no pain in the womb they are kidding themselves. And when they are old and have experienced more of life, their decisions will surely haunt the vast majority of them.

chocksaway

should always be available. If you don't agree with it you don't have to get one. What gives anyone the right to tell someone else what they should do with their body.

fatmammycat

LorraineMcFly wrote: »

I would vote no on abortion if it came to it here. Except in extreme medical circumstances.
Simply because a babies heart starts beating at 5-6 weeks. They are a seperate human being with a right to life in my eyes. They have a nervous system capable of feeling pain by 9-10 weeks. Anyone who had an abortion and believed their baby felt no pain is kidding themselves.
If you get pregnant stupidly do the right thing and give the baby up for adoption. Abortion is the easy option.

I think 9-10 weeks for pain is bogus; the brain hasn't even developed at this stage, where would the pain receptors reside? http://news.discovery.com/human/fetus-pain-abortion-law.html

As to adoption, women are not incubators for the childless. Nor is it an easy option, and only a person who has no experience of it would think so.

LorraineMcFly

chocksaway wrote: »

should always be available. If you don't agree with it you don't have to get one. What gives anyone the right to tell someone else what they should do with their body.

what gives anybody the right to kill a baby either? My problem with abortion is that i see an unborn baby as a living human being. your pregnant your entrusted to carrying the child safely. you dont want the child then have it and if you still dont want it then give it up for adoption in ireland where there are thousands of childless couples. I guarantee if you went through a pregnancy and adoption process the chances are the majority of women would never get pregnant by accident again. a babies heart beats at 5-6 weeks, its that simple really. Abortion is murder, it cannot be diluted. People dont think enough about it because they dont want to face the facts and reality that it is murder.

LorraineMcFly

fatmammycat wrote: »

I think 9-10 weeks for pain is bogus; the brain hasn't even developed at this stage, where would the pain receptors reside? http://news.discovery.com/human/fetus-pain-abortion-law.html

As to adoption, women are not incubators for the childless. Nor is it an easy option, and only a person who has no experience of it would think so.

I have a 2 year old and im pregnant so i know how hard pregnancy is.
also there are many schools of thought on th enervous system, how do you know your right? or do you just believe you are right so you feel better about abortion? id rather not take the risk myslef of killing and causing pain to a baby

fatmammycat

I didn't say I was right, I provided a link that disputed your position and asked a question about pain receptors. I will assume you are pregnant because you want to be.

SEPT 23 1989

One of the dark forces

Seachmall

LorraineMcFly wrote: »

Abortion is the easy option.

Why does this always come up in topics of abortion, or suicide, or anything else that people see as inherently wrong?

It seems like an attempt to suggest anyone who agrees with abortion is "weak" (because they'd take the "easy" option) and thus you shouldn't support abortion lest you be seen as "weak".

It always comes up, and it's always idiotic.

* Irrelevant to the topic at hand, but it grinds my gears.

bensweeney

The allegations are more then smirks ffs.

smash

LorraineMcFly wrote: »

if there was a vote i would have a right - so your wrong. And i would vote no.

You would have a choice to vote yes or no, this does not give you a right to tell others how to live their lives. Others should have a choice regarding abortion disregarding your personal beliefs.

LorraineMcFly

fatmammycat wrote: »

I didn't say I was right, I provided a link that disputed your position and asked a question about pain receptors. I will assume you are pregnant because you want to be.

I can provide links too.
Weeks 10 and 11: The baby can "breathe" amniotic fluid and urinate. Week 11 the baby can grasp objects placed in its hand; all organ systems are functioning. The baby has a skeletal structure, nerves, and circulation.
Week 12: The baby has all of the parts necessary to experience pain, including nerves, spinal cord, and thalamus. Vocal cords are complete. The baby can suck its thumb.
www.nrlc.org/abortion/facts/fetaldevelopment.htmlCached - Similar

LorraineMcFly

smash wrote: »

You would have a choice to vote yes or no, this does not give you a right to tell others how to live their lives. Others should have a choice regarding abortion disregarding your personal beliefs.

Makes no sense, if I vote no then therefore I am passing my belief onto others, and I have a right to do so. Just as others have a right to vote yes and pass their belief onto me. I believe an unborn baby has just as much right to live as the mother carrying it for 9 months.

prinz

This is almost as good as the 'Muamba thanking God' thread.

Edit: The Ronan Mullen smirk thing. My post makes no sense now..

smash

LorraineMcFly wrote: »

Makes no sense, if I vote no then therefore I am passing my belief onto others, and I have a right to do so. Just as others have a right to vote yes and pass their belief onto me. I believe an unborn baby has just as much right to live as the mother carrying it for 9 months.

Really thought, your opinion on the matter doesn't make a bit of difference. Even if abortion was legal here it would probably still be cheaper to go to the UK like people do now. You may have an opinion on it but nobody really cares what you believe because for a €60 return flight you can get on a plane, have an abortion and be home by dinner.

Miike

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Is it just me or does he look like Brian Cowen?

They both have that bull-dog-look-a-like thing rolling, maybe thats it?

biko

Stupidest news I read all day, and it's only 10.13

fatmammycat

LorraineMcFly wrote: »

Makes no sense, if I vote no then therefore I am passing my belief onto others, and I have a right to do so. Just as others have a right to vote yes and pass their belief onto me. I believe an unborn baby has just as much right to live as the mother carrying it for 9 months.

What you provided says nothing at all about whether a fetus feels pain at 9-10 weeks or not. If the neural pathways are not formed nor the central nervous system completed how or where does the 9-10 week old fetus feel pain? Also quoting the National Right To Life is hardly offering an unbiased source.

LorraineMcFly

fatmammycat wrote: »

What you provided says nothing at all about whether a fetus feels pain at 9-10 weeks or not. If the neural pathways are not formed nor the central nervous system completed how or where does the 9-10 week old fetus feel pain? Also quoting the National Right To Life is hardly offering an unbiased source.

By 8 weeks? Show me!
By this age the neuro-anatomic structures are present. What is needed is (1) a sensory nerve to feel the pain and send a message to (2) the thalamus, a part of the base of the brain, and (3) motor nerves that send a message to that area. These are present at 8 weeks. The pain impulse goes to the thalamus. It sends a signal down the motor nerves to pull away from the hurt.
Try sticking an infant with a pin and you know what happens. She opens her mouth to cry and also pulls away.
Try sticking an 8 week old human fetus in the palm of his hand. He opens his mouth and pulls his hand away.
A more technical description would add that changes in heart rate and fetal movement also suggest that intrauterine manipulations are painful to the fetus. Volman & Pearson, "What the Fetus Feels," British Med. Journal, Jan. 26, 1980, pp. 233-234

www.abortionfacts.com/fetal_development/fetal_pain.aspCached - Similar

Seachmall

LorraineMcFly wrote: »

And when they are old and have experienced more of life, their decisions will surely haunt the vast majority of them.

Perhaps. But that's not an argument. It's a guilt trip. And a speculative one at that.

LorraineMcFly wrote: »

Makes no sense, if I vote no then therefore I am passing my belief onto others

No, you're opting to force your beliefs on others.

Just as others have a right to vote yes and pass their belief onto me.

Someone voting pro-choice isn't forcing their beliefs on you.

LorraineMcFly

Seachmall wrote: »

Perhaps. But that's not an argument. It's a guilt trip. And a speculative one at that.

No, you're opting to force your beliefs on others.Someone voting pro-choice isn't forcing their beliefs on you.

a yes vote is something i disagree with. it will never happen anyway. if you put a poll up here, the no vote people and the people who agree with abortion only on medical grounds would win. there will never be a free for all abortion in ireland, where anybody can avail of it. If you want abortion move country. Wont be happening here.

Seachmall

LorraineMcFly wrote: »

a yes vote is something i disagree with. it will never happen anyway. if you put a poll up here, the no vote people and the people who agree with abortion only on medical grounds would win. there will never be a free for all abortion in ireland, where anybody can avail of it. If you want abortion move country. Wont be happening here.

Is that supposed to be a rebuttal?