Abortion

paddyandy wrote: »

An Abortion can haunt you in your later years when you might think differently .

IMO part of the healing process is forgiving yourself and loving yourself again.. Abortion is hardly something that every young girl dreams of, and never the desired option.

If you bottle it up and try and ignore it, any regrets will be harder on you.

Des Carter wrote: »

I am really sorry if my views offended you or anyone else that was not the intention. Was it anything in particular, maybe I could clear it up?

You certainly haven't offended me in anything you've posted. I totally disagree with a lot of your views but I'm delighted to debate with you.

prinz wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63135178&postcount=4

Freedom of expression trumps property rights in my hierarchy of values :cool:

Wild Bill wrote: »

Folk here are probably more conditioned by the Church and way less "liberal" than they imagine!

A challenge: If you tick a "yes" against any of these you are merely a conservative fundamentalist that would happily fit into the Church - your objections are those of prejudice or taste - not rationality:

Pro-abortion but anti-euthanasia?

Euthanasia is a funny one, has serious practical issues about it. If someone truly wants to end then its suicide.

Wild Bill wrote: »

Pro-abortion but against legalizing multiple wives (but probably support gay marriage!)?

I don't think men should be exposed to that risk, one wife is enough trouble.

Wild Bill wrote: »

Pro-abortion but would shudder at the idea of terminating the severely mentally handicapped?

Not really, just not sure why you'd kill them.

Wild Bill wrote: »

Pro-abortion on grounds of "women's choice" but horrified if the choice was based on sex or race rather than convenience?

Nope

prinz wrote: »

You should probably read the forum charter.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63135178&postcount=4

I have no intention of reading this again. If I have broken the rules - bring on the punishment.

Bambi - for crissakes fix that last bit so I can reply

Des Carter wrote: »

hattoncracker wrote: »

Would you disown her if she chose to have one?

Of course not. I would not be happy with her decision but thats it. I would also be unhappy if she took drugs but would not disown her if she develped a drug addiction.

As I said before everything I wrote was in a general sense in terms of writing the law to protect the unborn child.

So its ok for your daughter but not ok for other women in the same situation? Why? Because you dont know them?
Abortion is never easy, it's never something that people actively seek out. Contraception fails, thats life.

My dad has the same views as you, he doesn't know I had an abortion, so in effect because he was anti-abortion, like you, and had no qualms about telling people you may be unknowingly isolating people. None of my family know, just my mother because I felt I couldn't tell them..

You can't generalise a topic, or speak in general terms because there is no typical situation.. Each woman is different..

Min

Imagine if the mother's of all the pro-choice people had aborted them.

We would have a forum full of pro-life people.

Min wrote: »

Imagine if the mother's of all the pro-choice people had aborted them.

We would have a forum full of pro-life people.

Could you pick a woman who's had an abortion out of a crowd?

Min wrote: »

We would have a forum full of pro-life people.

Sorry - that doesn't follow!

Based on that reasoning gayness would no longer exist.

philologos wrote: »

I'm not sure if the RCC is the only church that counts in Ireland.

'tis

philologos wrote: »

Sure, other Christians form a minority, but they still have a significant presence.

They don't, we're 85% catholic.

philologos wrote: »

I think it's important to distinguish when were talking about Christianity in general from when we're talking about a specific denomination (such as the RCC).

It is'nt important in Ireland, if we were in America with all those wacky baptists it might be. But we're not. So it isn't

philologos wrote: »

We need to make sure that we're using the same terms in discussion to understand eachother best.

People understand that "the church"= the roman church, the original franchise, the men with the biggest hats. In just the way that they understand that "town"= dublin, its only people with shouldery chips about the balance of power that make a point about it.

Min wrote: »

Imagine if the mother's of all the pro-choice people had aborted them.

Imagine if pro choicers started bombing churches and shooting priests.

prinz

hattoncracker wrote: »

Could you pick a woman who's had an abortion out of a crowd?

Probably couldn't pick out the person who fantasises about being eaten by a cannibal either.

Wild Bill wrote: »

Sorry - that doesn't follow!

Based on that reasoning gayness would no longer exist.

The mothers of the pro-choice people would be pro-choice? (and join the forum)

Bullseye1

He did not say that. You asked him would he disown his daughter if she had an abortion. He said no. He said he wouldn't be happy with the decision. Would you feel better if he did disown his daughter?

hattoncracker wrote: »

So its ok for your daughter but not ok for other women in the same situation? Why? Because you dont know them?
Abortion is never easy, it's never something that people actively seek out. Contraception fails, thats life.

My dad has the same views as you, he doesn't know I had an abortion, so in effect because he was anti-abortion, like you, and had no qualms about telling people you may be unknowingly isolating people. None of my family know, just my mother because I felt I couldn't tell them..

You can't generalise a topic, or speak in general terms because there is no typical situation.. Each woman is different..

prinz wrote: »

Probably couldn't pick out the person who fantasises about being eaten by a cannibal either.

Nor could I pick out folk who've been bitten by cannibals.

Des Carter

hattoncracker wrote: »

So its ok for your daughter but not ok for other women in the same situation? Why? Because you dont know them?
Abortion is never easy, it's never something that people actively seek out. Contraception fails, thats life.

My dad has the same views as you, he doesn't know I had an abortion, so in effect because he was anti-abortion, like you, and had no qualms about telling people you may be unknowingly isolating people. None of my family know, just my mother because I felt I couldn't tell them..

You can't generalise a topic, or speak in general terms because there is no typical situation.. Each woman is different..

1st off sorry to hear you were in that situation and faced with those choices. The truth is I havent a clue what it must be like to be in a position like that (let alone feel that you couldnt talk to your familly about it) and im not going to pretend I do.

I just believe that an unborn child is a human life and as such should have human rights. Having said that I know that this is a very black and white view and every case is different.

Im sorry if I have offended you and I am not trying to make you feel guilty or anything so please dont think I am.

Wild Bill wrote: »

Nor could I pick out folk who've been bitten by cannibals.

Human teeth-marks

HemlockOption wrote: »

The mothers of the pro-choice people would be pro-choice? (and join the forum)

Yes, their mothers might have been? But why why would I join this forum just 'cos me Ma was pro-choice?

As it happens she's probably not - Church groupie :cool:

Bullseye1 wrote: »

He did not say that. You asked him would he disown his daughter if she had an abortion. He said no. He said he wouldn't be happy with the decision. Would you feel better if he did disown his daughter?

hattoncracker wrote: »

So its ok for your daughter but not ok for other women in the same situation? Why? Because you dont know them?
Abortion is never easy, it's never something that people actively seek out. Contraception fails, thats life.

My dad has the same views as you, he doesn't know I had an abortion, so in effect because he was anti-abortion, like you, and had no qualms about telling people you may be unknowingly isolating people. None of my family know, just my mother because I felt I couldn't tell them..

You can't generalise a topic, or speak in general terms because there is no typical situation.. Each woman is different..

No... But if he would support his own daughter through it but staunchly stick by "you had sex, face the consequences" to every other woman with a crisis pregnancy thats hypocrisy.

Min

hattoncracker wrote: »

Could you pick a woman who's had an abortion out of a crowd?

No, but the woman who had an abortion in the crowd would be like the unborn, hidden away, but the fact one can't point out and see the woman who had an abortion doesn't justify doing wrong to them if one could point out the woman who had abortion because one disagrees with abortion.
Yet the unborn do have their lives decided for them.

hattoncracker wrote: »

No... But if he would support his own daughter through it but staunchly stick by "you had sex, face the consequences" to every other woman with a crisis pregnancy thats hypocrisy.

Eh...no it's not. My daughter could murder her boyfriend and I'd still not reject her - doesn't mean I'd agree with her actions.

Blood is thicker than slaughter!

Bullseye1

hattoncracker wrote: »

No... But if he would support his own daughter through it but staunchly stick by "you had sex, face the consequences" to every other woman with a crisis pregnancy thats hypocrisy.

Nothing he has said could be considered hypocrisy. He stated he wouldn't be happy with the choice but he wouldn't disown his daughter.

hattoncracker wrote: »

Could you pick a woman who's had an abortion out of a crowd?

Apparently you can tell by the ghostly foetus trailing them

Des Carter

hattoncracker wrote: »

No... But if he would support his own daughter through it but staunchly stick by "you had sex, face the consequences" to every other woman with a crisis pregnancy thats hypocrisy.

I think its called being a father, loving your child unconditionally and helping them through the hard times in their lives. However I would expect her to face the consequences of her actions (no matter what the actions are) and not run away from them so to speak.

Des Carter wrote: »

I think its called being a father, loving your child unconditionally and helping them through the hard times in their lives. However I would expect her to face the consequences of her acions (no matter what the actions are) and not run away from them so to speak.

Get real!

I'd make an exception for my daughter without any qualms atall atall :rolleyes:

Des Carter wrote: »

hattoncracker wrote: »

So its ok for your daughter but not ok for other women in the same situation? Why? Because you dont know them?
Abortion is never easy, it's never something that people actively seek out. Contraception fails, thats life.

My dad has the same views as you, he doesn't know I had an abortion, so in effect because he was anti-abortion, like you, and had no qualms about telling people you may be unknowingly isolating people. None of my family know, just my mother because I felt I couldn't tell them..

You can't generalise a topic, or speak in general terms because there is no typical situation.. Each woman is different..

1st off sorry to hear you were in that situation and faced with those choices. The truth is I havent a clue what it must be like to be in a position like that (let alone feel that you couldnt talk to your familly about it) and im not going to pretend I do.

I just believe that an unborn child is a human life and as such should have human rights. Having said that I know that this is a very black and white view and every case is different.

Im sorry if I have offended you and I am not trying to make you feel guilty or anything so please dont think I am.

I know you weren't trying to offend me. There's a Christian thread on abortion and I've been abused so much on there and had babies in dumpsters posted at me.. Youre pretty accepting in comparison to that!!

I accept that you can have your views on this, I respect them and I didn't mean to insult you either.

But if you express yourself in a "general" opinion, youre Not really doing justice to yourself. The truth is most women do Not talk about abortions, because of fear of being judged and as such getting real life accounts can be difficult but with over 4,000 women travelling to the UK every year I'd guess you know way more than 2 women, but they'd just never let on.

You were faced with a real life situation with my story, and you were respectful and gentle enough to not want to offend me.. You come across as a nice dude, but I think you need to try and come up with a 'non-general' view too.

prinz

hattoncracker wrote: »

I know you weren't trying to offend me. There's a Christian thread on abortion and I've been abused so much on there and had babies in dumpsters posted at me.. Youre pretty accepting in comparison to that!!

Absolute bullsh*t. Is having people (i.e. ME) send you links on support groups and counselling for post-abortion women what you call being abused? You go to the Christian forum and then cry foul because people gave you their Christian positions.