This thread utterly depresses me
Ms.M wrote: I'll leave this thread to who it was made for. Enjoy folks! Any opinions about Travellers? Refugees?
Ms.M wrote: » I see. Any opinions you want to share on any other minority cultures so? No, sometimes you should not "respect" other peoples opinions. English and Maths are also "forced on young children." And people studying English all across Europe study Shakespeare at second level for God sake! The reason why a lot of Irish kids hate it is because their parents tell them they should (trust me, I've had debates with many students) and frankly because the standard is very high (it is a first language or language of educational instruction for many people). I'm talking as someone who was not fond of Irish in second-level due to my own laziness and someone who teaches Irish in second-level currently. I'll leave this thread to who it was made for. Enjoy folks! Any opinions about Travellers? Refugees? Get it off your chests, please, your opinions are just so valuable!
jive wrote: » It shouldn't be compulsory. It provides little to no benefit for the vast, vast majority of people who learn it. The way it is taught throughout education is highly flawed and this is evident in the fact that you learn it for around 15 years and nobody can even speak the language fluently unless they are taught it externally e.g. at home, or live in a ghaeltacht area. While I appreciate the reasons for it being taught, I do not these reasons justify it being a compulsory subject. Irish has no use outside of Ireland and has no use inside of Ireland for 99% of people. The time spent learning Irish would be better spent learning international languages like Spanish. I feel that Irish should be offered as a subject, but should not be a compulsory one because it has practical use for but a few individuals. TL;DR It's not useless, but it will never be relevant enough for it to justify being compulsory.
Zirconia wrote: » As an Irish language hater myself, I believe the fact that is is compulsory is the biggest factor in making so many people dislike the language. I refuse to converse with anyone who speaks to me in Irish, and as my kids are about to do their leaving cert this year and next year and are finding this subject difficult, I've told them to ignore it and concentrate all their efforts in the real subjects.
MyKeyG wrote: » Ask anyone who's been to college if anything they learned in secondary gave them any practical advantage and invariably they'll say no as most colleges will assume ignorance of the subject material in most courses.
Stark wrote: » Americans speak English as well. Should they be ashamed of themselves? Maybe they should make up a language that no-one else can speak so they can call themselves Americans.
bscm wrote: » I don't agree, I do believe that other subjects are more useful than Irish and give a more practical benefit after the exams. I'm studying Science at TCD (aiming to get a degree in Astrophysics), and without having studied Physics and HL Maths for the Leaving Cert, I would have dropped out of college a long time ago. Most lecturers assume little knowledge of the subject at an advanced level, but that the student has gained or will immediately be self-learning good deal of background information. Some of my course who studied OL Maths are struggling greatly, because within one week we immediately started subjects which had taken up to 3 months to grasp during the Leaving Cert. In the Science sector of college, a lot of things can't easily be picked up from a book and need proper teaching or a natural affinity for the subject. It's a lot easier to learn about the Battle of Hastings from a book or pick up a dictionary to translate a word, but it's near impossible to fully understand Quantum Mechanics without previous knowledge of basic material. I also have yet to speak a word of Irish aside from craic. And I have no plans to use or speak Irish in the future.
Bazinga_N wrote: » I'm actually a bit ashamed to call some of you fellow Irishmen... Many of us Irish people complain about the British and we say we hate them.. But Why? Many people say it's due to them taking our independence, or our land and our language - Irish. Many years ago all Irishmen spoke Irish and English was kept to English people. I actually find it quite funny that today English people speak English and Irish people speak English. I went to a Gaelscoil.... When I was there all I did was complain about being made speak Irish.. Got to an English speaking Secondary School.. It made me realise how much I actually liked Irish... I had an identity, as did my fellow classmates.. I wasn't they guy who liked Music... Or the guy into Sports... I was the guy who was smart enough, to take pride in Irish.. And Call myself a True Irish Man.. And that's something people say.. ''If you don't like Guinness your not Irish'' or if you ''Don't play GAA'' your not Irish.. Well In My Opinion if ''you don't Speak Irish, your not Irish'', Just like Italians speak Italian, The French speak French or The English Speak English.. Why shouldn't we have a unique language? Also, people say Irish isn't a modern language... It's like Latin or Ancient Greek.. I strongly disagree.. I speak Irish on a daily basis.. As do many of my friends.. and fellow classmates.. as does every student in my past primary school... as does many people across the nation.. How is this language dead? The day Irish will die.. is the day the world will end... Because I know that even if it did go optional... The Irish race wouldn't be so stupid as to let the language die... Because some people like myself, have pride in our country.. and it's language..Tir gan teanga, tir gan anam
Chuchoter wrote: » I have to say that is one of the most arrogant posts I've ever read on LC. Who the hell made you the deciding factor on who is Irish, completely ignoring the huge socioeconomic issues involved? You know who speaks Irish these days in reality? The odd few people in the gaeltacht and then a **** tonne of upper middle class people who want to appear 'cultured'. I don't agree with Irish being mandatory but I do believe it should be taught as French, I think it would be far better if it wasn't allowed to be mangled by primary teachers with barely a C3 and then facing into 6 years of poetry and prose that are of such poor quality you'd never see them in an English textbook.
grantyrs10 wrote: » I do not agree in any way that the above post is arrogant. How can it be arrogant when a person is merely debating his view along with anecdotes to his own life.
I was the guy who was smart enough .. [to] .. Call myself a True Irish Man..
guitarzero wrote: » This thing around identity is just an idea. Ireland has gone through so many cultural changes that one simply cannot say whole heartedly that there is an Irish identity. I've never looked at Irish people and felt an affinity, and I'm a gaelgeoir.
DepoProvera wrote: » Irish is simply useless. It has literally no practical or intellectual applications. It's a poorly structured, horrible sounding language.
DepoProvera wrote: » Maths and English are extremely important and should be compulsory. Maths is used in a vast amount of college courses and teaches logic and pattern recognition etc. English is obviously vital(however I do think there should be a greater focus on teaching syntax and grammar)
DepoProvera wrote: » Irish, however, has literally no use. There are better ways to promote Irish heritage without forcing students to learn a tired, old language. Proponents of the language are just making futile attempts to hark back to the early 20th century and still have the whole 'Brits out' attitude. Accept it - the English language has done wonders for Ireland and she would be nowhere without.
RadioClash wrote: » It irks me to hear parents saying not to bother at any subject, what happened to doing your best?
Peanut wrote: » Very odd way of looking at things tbh. Should we all be learning Latin? How about Honours Maths? Should every second level student be compelled to study it? There has to be some criteria stopping the DoE from setting wasteful curriculums, and this is even more important for compulsory subjects. There is also a distinct opportunity cost to students (and the taxpayer in general) in getting this wrong.
Irish, however, has literally no use. There are better ways to promote Irish heritage without forcing students to learn a tired, old language. Proponents of the language are just making futile attempts to hark back to the early 20th century and still have the whole 'Brits out' attitude.
Accept it - the English language has done wonders for Ireland and she would be nowhere without.
The sheer amount of money spent on teaching Irish, translating official documents, road signs etc is bewildering.
RadioClash wrote: » No such thing as wasteful knowledge. Even Latin. Compulsion and being compelled to study certain things is inherent to almost every education system in the world. Every student enjoys certain subjects more than others, but you shouldn't tell kids down tools if they(or you) think it's useless, in school or life in general. That's an attitude that's pervasive in certain sectors of Irish society and it leads to social problems. I'm not arguing that Irish is more economically beneficial than German or Mandarin, it's blatantly not. But I'd loathe to see an education system in this country dictated by IBEC or others ran on a cold economic benefit basis. *off to dance with comely maidens at the crossroads with the ghost of Eamon DeValera*
