robindch wrote: » The thread over in the christianity forum was closed, so posting there was difficult,
I checked this thread and I can't find the posts I was referring to,
1. Cloyne Report. Available [url=http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Cloyne_Rpt.pdf
2. Report by Commission of Investigation into Catholic Archdiocese of Dublin. Available here. Go to section 1.8 on page 2 of "Part 1". Quote:It's not unreasonable to think that perhaps half of the 11 "unnamed priests" might be included in the 172, so adding the remaining five to the 172, we get a figure of 177 priests against whom allegations were made.
The Commission received information about complaints, suspicions or knowledge of child sexual abuse in respect of 172 named priests and 11 unnamed priests. (Some or all of the 11 unnamed priests may, of course, be included in the 172 named priests.) After a preliminary examination, the Commission concluded that 102 of these priests were within remit.
Then, go to section 3.4, page 43. Quote:1,350+1,450 = 2,800. There are no statistics concerning abuse by supply priests, and I'm assuming that the original 177 are taken from the 2,800 anyway. So, dividing 177 by 2,800 gives 6.3%.
3. The Irish Catholic reported some years ago -- I haven't been able to find an online edition of that issue -- that 4% of convicted pedophiles in Irish prisons were clerics.
As clerics make up around only 0.1% of the population of the country, we'd therefore expect, all other things being equal, that they'd make up around 0.1% of the convicted prison population too (so the 4% figure indicates they're actually being convicted at 40 times the expected rate).
The conviction rate will necessarily be lower than the allegation rate owing to the death of the accused, the difficulty of securing a conviction after the passage, in many cases, of many years and the reluctance of the accuser to take their case to court. So the rate of 4% seems plausible, given that it's substantially less than the allegation rate noted elsewhere.
I hope this clarifies the issue for you.
oldrnwisr wrote: » Robin, I don't know if this is the earliest article but this one mentions the 4% issue.Fixing the Church
Given that clergy account for approximately 4% of abuse, Irish society has a long way to go to rooting out this evil in our midst.
Galvasean wrote: » The ongoing pedantry of squabbling over a percentage or two...
ISAW wrote: » Over a difference of minimum six and a half times historically and given the 0.1% or 0.01% or less today over 65 or 650 times! And begun by Robindch not mehttp://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77619733&postcount=39 I happen to be interested in accurate figures and skeptical of false claims.
koth wrote: » out of curiousity, do you have the same passion for justice as you do for numbers? Just asking as most of the posts of yours that I remember on this topic always seem to be about percentages.
ISAW wrote: » o Tempora o mores!
Yes; Id be happy to answer that in more detail in the other thread. Indeed I already have several times.http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055855692 I dont want to take up space here. I only came because I was promised the evidence for the 6.5% claim. I still haven't seen it. but no retraction as yet.
ISAW wrote: » o Tempora o mores! Yes; Id be happy to answer that in more detail in the other thread. Indeed I already have several times.http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055855692 I dont want to take up space here. I only came because I was promised the evidence for the 6.5% claim. I still haven't seen it. but no retraction as yet.
Galvasean wrote: »
Sarky wrote: » Two posts now, and no answer. You sure you're not dodging the question?
ISAW wrote: » Happy to reply here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055855692 But not in this thread. Reasons given No dodge.
marienbad wrote: » This is your only defence of what went on in the Chuch here for over 50 years, the other guy was worse. .
Yes it’s happened again, one of the good lords sheep has hit the news for all the wrong reasons after selling his Nintendo DS to a woman in Montana who was going to be giving it to her child. The problem, well the priest had forgotten to remove his child porn from the device before handing it over and after the lady went to the police they searched his parish house and found even more on his computer.
Bill Donohue, President of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights – has reportedly declared a “no more Mr Nice Guy” policy in relation to payouts to victims of clerical sexual abuse.
The bishops have come together collectively. I can’t give you the names, but there’s a growing consensus on the part of the bishops that they had better toughen up and go out and buy some good lawyers to get tough. We don’t need altar boys. Bill Donohue
Sarky wrote: » Those pesky victims, how very dare they seek to bring their abusers to account!
joseph brand wrote: » Getting tough on victims? Bad choice of words I'd imagine.http://freethinker.co.uk/2012/03/18/snapping-back-at-snap/ Bill Donohue on Matt Cooperhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKLlxAgMO-w
ISAW wrote: » No it isnt. I sent you five PM with it. I posted it above Here it is again for your information
robindch wrote: » ISAW, like a few days ago, I give up.
darealtulip wrote: » I don't understand what you all are on about? the pope stated clearly that child porn was very normal in the 70's. See no issue what so ever....http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/popersquos-child-porn-normal-claim-sparks-outrage-among-victims-15035449.html besides it is the vaticans own numbers that only 1.5-5% of the priest were involved in child abuse. It is a small gamble with your child since 5% is "only" 1 in 20.http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/28/sex-abuse-religion-vatican My opinion is that every one still attending a chuch is condoning this child abuse or at minimum is indifferent to it. If it was any other institution it would have been closed. Imagine if it was a school with "only" 1 in 20 teachers being involved in child abuse, would you send your child there?
qrrgprgua wrote: » Nonsense.. There has not been one since abuse case reported in Ireland in the last 10 years... of abuse commited in the last 1o years. The Pope and the church as consistently voiced the strong commitment to rooting it out. And stated it was wrong and it was wrong how it acted with the abusers. The abuse was/is and always will be wrong. It goes against everything that Catholic faith stands for. The Church is all its members. I go to my church... because its MY church.. its not the Popes or the bishops Church. Lets me clear... Teachers who abused in the 50's 60's in Ireland and who got reported with dealt with in the same way as priests of the time.. Society turned a blind eye... Ireland failed its Children. This is not letting the Church off the hook.. This many serious and criminal decisions.. But this was not the Church alone.. it was the view taken by many institutions of the day.. Teachers that abused in Private boarding schools were not reported to the Police.. they were just fired.
