Meat is murder, tasty, tasty murder . . .

I love being vegetarian, best thing I ever did:)

nua domhan

When i grow up, i'm going to Bovine University!

Mr.Biscuits

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

The beef industry lobby is NOTHING compared to the soy industry lobby (Monsanto, hello?)

Hello.

I never said that Beef Industry councils were not as bad Monsanto (I believe they are) but I merely pointing out that your: 'omnivores have no advocacy, lobby groups and propaganda machines' statement was a bogus and nonsensical one.

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

.. and again the beef industry lobby is not an advocacy group for omnivores, just beef processors.

No, they are worse - as they act purely from a commercial point of view but at the end of the day they are a powerful force and voice for those that consume animal based products.

They have so much influence of Governments around the world and pretty much creaeted what we have come to know as the Food Pyramid.

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

These two posts display the ignorance propagated by vegetarian groups that all people are either vegetarians or they eat nothing but industrial junk-food.

Look, I have no idea how you can come to that conclusion from my post but I think based on the content of your own posts, you should ease up with throwing around worlds like 'ignorance'.

By they way, I eat meat - lots of it.

ScumLord

TheZohan wrote: »

Didn't watch that moovie you linked either, was afraid it might be a virus.

I watched a bit of it, it was like watching Tom Cruise talk about Scientology. Vegan cooks are better because they care more and vegans are in general better than mere mortals in every conceivable way.

RussellTuring

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

I'm not interested in 'neccesary'. Humans are an adaptable species and can survive on a wide variety of foods, but I'm not interested in just surviving either. I'm interested in eating the optimal diet for the human animal, i.e. as close as possible to what we've been eating for 100,000 + years, not evolutionarily novel diets like western diet (with lots of grains) or veganism or vegetarianism. It's not possible to get it exactly like what a 'caveman' would have eaten, but you can get close (BTW we've been cooking food for around 150,000 years).

I'm still waiting for you to show how an optimal diet can only be achieved by eating meat as you stated. The only reason I can see for you holding this belief is your foregone conclusion that meat is necessary for optimal health, and that's just circular logic. I also couldn't help but notice your implication that because we've been eating meat for so long then it must therefore be a good thing. I hope I don't have to list off the various things humans do that are harmful to ourselves, each other and the world.

(I don't think anthropogenic climate change is far-fetched, I just don't think it has been proven.)

As El Dangeroso said, we could go back and forth with studies refuting each others statements but I don't think there is a point. I have never been as fit, healthy or energetic since I started eating a paleo diet and that is a good enough reason for me.

Well since yours is probably the most "evolutionarily novel" diet mentioned in the thread and you admit it isn't really possible to eat exactly as you may have in another age, maybe you feel so good because you pay more attention to what you eat than most people do, just as you said of vegetarians. In other words, you assume you feel good because of the meat without being able to state exactly why, whereas it's most likely the same feeling people get when they become more mindful of what they eat.

It reminds me of my friend who became more interested in what he was eating after we became housemates. My love of food and cooking influenced him to stop eating as much rubbish as he had before and to cook more, with better-quality food. He didn't stop eating meat but he said that he felt far healthier thanks to me.

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

The fact that certain nutrient deficiencies are more common in vegetarians leads me to think that on average, most vegetarians are not meeting those needs.
.

Would certain other deficiencies being more common in meat-eaters, along with the obesity, heart disease etc likewise convince you that most of them aren't meeting their needs?

grindle wrote: »

True. I am one of those carnivores. I've saved two friends from vegetarianism. That makes it all worth it.
And it's logically impossible to either understand or respect the choice of vegetarianism. It's an irrational choice, and I respect their right to make the choice, but you don't have to respect the choice itself.
Same if somebody ate everything but rice. They can choose that, but it's an irrational choice, which you'd hardly look at, stand back, and go "That guy's really stickin' to his guns about rice. I respect his distaste for the grain."

Do you think the animals you eat are no more conscious than rice?

grindle

RussellTuring wrote: »

Do you think the animals you eat are no more conscious than rice?

I wouldn't eat one that raw. Squirming'd put me off. Dead though...

Mr.Biscuits wrote: »

I never said that Beef Industry councils were not as bad Monsanto (I believe they are) but I merely pointing out that your: 'omnivores have no advocacy, lobby groups and propaganda machines' statement was a bogus and nonsensical one.

What you are saying is totally nonsensical. You really need to go and look up the definition of advocacy group and then tell me why a beef industry lobby group is an advocate for omnivores but a soy industry lobby group is not an advocate for vegetarians.

Mr.Biscuits

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

What you are saying is totally nonsensical. You really need to go and look up the definition of advocacy group and then tell me why a beef industry lobby group is an advocate for omnivores but a soy industry lobby group is not an advocate for vegetarians.

Will you quit putting words in my mouth please.

When and where did I say anything about a soy industry lobby group not being an advocate for vegetarians??

I actually said I agreed with your point in that regard.

Mr.Biscuits wrote: »

Will you quit putting words in my mouth please.

When and where did I say anything about a soy industry lobby group not being an advocate for vegetarians?? I actually said I agreed with that point.

It's the same thing as saying the beef industry lobby is a omnivore advocacy group.

Mr.Biscuits

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

It's the same thing as saying the beef industry lobby is a omnivore advocacy group.

No it's NOT the "same thing" - how could it be?

I never said (nor implied) that Monsanto were not an advocacy group for vegetarians, nor anything close to it - so quit implying that I did.

My point, which you seeme to have missed in your determination to put words in my mouth is that meat eaters do have "propaganda machines" and "advocacy groups" on "their side".

If you want to agrue about Monsanto and Soy industry lobby groups - grand, just go and do it with people that have stuck up for them, I didn't.

I've never heard anyone defend Monsanto. Most tofu I see in the shops is organic. Maybe GM soy milk is more popular, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was no significant market for Monsanto soy here at all.

The majority of vegetarians think PETA does more to undermine their beliefs than to propagate them too.

There are many compelling reasons not to eat meat. There's no reason to eat meat other than indulgence. Not eating meat is the rational and ethical choice.

I dont think that eating meat means someone is stupid or bad or anything like that. It is a stupid and bad thing to do, but it's also the societal norm. There's an awful lot of misinformation and prejudices out there. Even George Orwell was hostile towards vegetarians, suggesting they're passive and namby-pamby. [Redirected self-loathing for being a closet homosexual from a privileged class himself I reckon...but I'm going on a tangent now]... I would tend to think well of someone who doesn't eat it though.

Rabidlamb

Had a homemade burger last night ..... homer droooooool
Even knowing that most of it was probably cartilage & grizzle didn't take from the enjoyment.
What hope do the vegetarian lobby have when even the bad bits taste so good.
Probably too weak to lift their skinny fingers & type.

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Had a homemade burger last night ..... homer droooooool
Even knowing that most of it was probably cartilage & grizzle didn't take from the enjoyment.
What hope do the vegetarian lobby have when even the bad bits taste so good.
Probably too weak to lift their skinny fingers & type.

I'm aware of the tongue-in-cheek nature of that post, but you've touched on a common misconception there. Strength training is very viable on a vegetarian diet. Christian Bale was a vegetarian when he appeared in American Psycho, to give a fairly well known example.

Mr.Biscuits wrote: »

No it's NOT the "same thing" - how could it be?

I never said (nor implied) that Monsanto were not an advocacy group for vegetarians, nor anything close to it - so quit implying that I did.

My point, which you seeme to have missed in your determination to put words in my mouth is that meat eaters do have "propaganda machines" and "advocacy groups" on "their side".

If you want to agrue about Monsanto and Soy industry lobby groups - grand, just go and do it with people that have stuck up for them, I didn't.

Jeez, you really don't get it. I am saying that the beef lobby industry is no more a 'propaganda machine' as you call it for meat eaters than Monsanto is a 'propaganda machine' for vegans, it's an analogy like.

Just because you eat something a company makes does not make them an advocate for your beliefs, how hard is that to understand?

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Jeez, you really don't get it. I am saying that the beef lobby industry is no more a 'propaganda machine' as you call it for meat eaters than Monsanto is a 'propaganda machine' for vegans, it's an analogy like.

Just because you eat something a company makes does not make them an advocate for your beliefs, how hard is that to understand?

You didn't say that though. Not until this very post. In fact you suggested that vegans benefit from organisations such as Monsanto, PETA and the ALF [which I dont think is the case at all].

If that really was what you meant to say - that the beef industry is no more a propaganda machine for meat eaters than Monsanto is for vegans - well you should look at your own ways of expressing things. Because it really didnt come across from any of your previous posts.

Sonic the Large Cock

man this thread is making me hungry, i could murder a murdered burger right about now

blatantrereg wrote: »

You didn't say that though. Not until this very post. In fact you suggested that vegans benefit from organisations such as Monsanto, PETA and the ALF [which I dont think is the case at all].

If that really was what you meant to say - that the beef industry is no more a propaganda machine for meat eaters than Monsanto is for vegans - well you should look at your own ways of expressing things. Because it really didnt come across from any of your previous posts.

Really what can I say, I don't think there's a face-palm big enough to respond to this.

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Really what can I say, I don't think there's a face-palm big enough to respond to this.

Why?

Fantastic piece of film http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthlings_(film)

I'd like to, if I may, quote the poster Stressica who discussed it in the Vegan & Vegetarian forum : "It changed my and my families life for good, now vegans we refuse to take part in the attrocities that go on in front of our eye yet many people chose to ignore. Its one of the best films ever made and if you really care about animals and want to make a difference and understand what really goes on, I'd recommend viewing.

it is however very graphic but its the truth and its what happens everyday, to billions of animals kept in filthy conditions for human greed.

Don't just bury your head in the sand and ignore it because you don't like it."

Would reccomend that everyone watch it

Gummy Panda

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

it is however very graphic but its the truth and its what happens everyday, to billions of animals kept in filthy conditions for human greed.

Yeah factory farming in US.

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Yeah factory farming in US.

So what, you think its massively different over here?

Gummy Panda

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Yeah factory farming in US.

So what, you think its massively different over here?

Yeah I do.