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Internal cooling in a bartop MAME cab-Questions.

[Deleted User]

Hi all,

I'm concerned about cooling a inside bartop mame cab i'm building at the moment The PC is a P4 2.8ghz with 4 Gb ram, running XPsp3. Frontend is hyperspin. The frontend is tweaked for performance, and is still kinda heavy on the PC's resources but runs ok while the PC is (was) sitting outside the cab in it's original case.

Problem is, due to space constraints inside the cab, I've had to rebuild the PC in the cab without it's case. I have about 30x25x100cm for the mobo and psu on the base shelf, and the hard drive will be mounted behind the monitor, so space is very tight, i have an inch or two at best to play with in all directions, so repositioning stuff isn't really an option.

I'm concerned about heat inside the cab affecting the PC performance, and generally causing issues with the running of the front end, as the heatsync and PSU are both going to be inside the cab, currently without any dedicated intake or exhaust grilles, and there looks like being very little room for air circulation. There are air vents in the cab to allow air in and out, but no dedicated air intake grilles or exhausts at the moment.

My question is, based on my spec, and the P4 processor in particular, can i expect to run into issues with heat/performance, and does anyone have any suggestions as to how to handle it?

The heatsync fan and the output fan from the PSU are both facing the cab's back panel, i've considered installing 2 grilles which they can line up to, but i'm in two minds as the cab's paintjob has already been done professionally. It seems a shame to make modifications now that won't fit in with the colour scheme, but if it needs to happen, so be it.

Any feedback, help, or suggestions would be welcome. Thanks.

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Comments

Jack burton

Well I'd get some 120mm case fans and mount them into the cab

If you install the fans at the back of the cab would it make much difference to the look? Because I'd think you'd definitely need them

Any pictures of the cab so I'd have a better idea of where you could mount them

The Last Bandit

Well I cooked the laptop motherboard in 'Carbon Cab' recently because of poor cooling. Did add vent holes after a while but the damage was done. Now it powers off after 30 minutes of use or so.

My latest creation 'Woody' will have a much better cooling solution in place, also using a mini-itx mobo with its cooling onboard.

Anyone got a decent laptop mobo for sale

[Deleted User]

Jack burton wrote: »

Well I'd get some 120mm case fans and mount them into the cab

If you install the fans at the back of the cab would it make much difference to the look? Because I'd think you'd definitely need them

Any pictures of the cab so I'd have a better idea of where you could mount them

Thank you, yes i was thinking of doing exactly that, i was more worried that it might be overkill for what i need, but reading the replies so far, i guess not.

I'll post some pics later on, but i think i will look into adding grilles to the back panel, just in case. It'll be somewhat of a tradeoff on looks, but i don't want to fry my machine.

The Last Bandit wrote: »

Well I cooked the laptop motherboard in 'Carbon Cab' recently because of poor cooling. Did add vent holes after a while but the damage was done. Now it powers off after 30 minutes of use or so.

EEK :eek: ok, i need to put some thought into this then. Thanks for the warning!!

CathalDublin

I would mount one or two 80 or 120mm case fans internally on the rear door with a hole drilled using a large holesaw to match fan propellar size and mount these to the outside so as not to take away from the look of the case

[Deleted User]

CathalDublin wrote: »

I would mount one or two 80 or 120mm case fans internally on the rear door with a hole drilled using a large holesaw to match fan propellar size

Yeah I was thinking of that but the motherboard I have doesn't have any spare headers for fans. Theres plenty of spare power connectors but the board only has 2 4 pin fan connectors and theyre used up for the front fan and heat sync fan, so the only choice I have is where to mount the front fan. That's why I was thinking to cut one hole for the front fan, (to cool the processor) and another for the exhaust fan at the back of the PSU, to pull out the hot air, same as the airflow would be if I was using the original case.

Is there any other option for getting extra fans in there? I haven't done this before so not really sure what my options are.

CathalDublin

You can run the fans from any power source ie.floppy drive power connector or spare IDE power connector, either cut/solder or an adapter, inface a lot of fans have IDE power connectors on them

[Deleted User]

CathalDublin wrote: »

You can run the fans from any power source ie.floppy drive power connector or spare IDE power connector

So the fan just runs full speed all the time once the PC is on, is that right?

As long as I got a low noise one that'd be fine. I don't want fan noise to drown out the games.

Steve X2

Deleted User wrote: »

So the fan just runs full speed all the time once the PC is on, is that right?

As long as I got a low noise one that'd be fine. I don't want fan noise to drown out the games.

If you want low noise and good airflow get a high quality 120mm fan.
Make sure to research the decibel level that the fan runs at.

.

CathalDublin

Yep, I've fans in my media pc antec make them with controllers on them but that would be a pita, just get lowish rpm ones

Jack burton

Yeah those exact grills are what I use aswell, circular drill bit and you'll be sorted

I dont think any 120mm fans would drown out the games. But just for for some low decibel ones anyway

You could mount them one at the top and one at the bottom to set up a little push pull system if ya wanted but thats just me going ott

[Deleted User]

Jack burton wrote: »

I dont think any 120mm fans would drown out the games. But just for for some low decibel ones anyway

You could mount them one at the top and one at the bottom to set up a little push pull system if ya wanted but thats just me going ott

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm limited for space, so I probably only have enough room for 80-90mm fans. Are there any major differences in terms of noise from those versus 120mm? Can anyone tell me what I need to watch out for? Is there a specific model or brand anyone recommends, or it it likely to make no real difference?

Steve X2

Here's a few 120mm fans that are quite good. You might be able to get them cheaper by looking around.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-057-AK

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HS-039-CM

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-007-SH

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-000-DC

And some good 80mm fans.
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-006-BQ

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-008-SH

When I build a new PC one of my main concerns is noise, I dont want it loud. So I always spend extra on fans and anything with fans or moving parts to make sure its as silent as possible.
Also, pop off that CPU and clean it and put some decent thermal paste on it(Arctic Silver 5 is one of the best and not too pricey).

Use some rubber fan mounts:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-001-AF&groupid=701&catid=57&subcat=

If you have a bit of spare cash upgrade the cpu heatsink. I've got the below one in my arcade machine and it comes with two 120mm fans on it and is a bit of a beast but runs very silent and cools really well. It works so well I got one for my main PC as well. Its a Noctua NH-D14. Maybe its a bit big for a bartop though.

[Deleted User]

You could put those cloth speaker grills over them,
make them look nicer and act as a filter.
they might get manky tho.

[Deleted User]

Some pics as requested. These are from various stages of development.

The cab as it's looking so far, with "work in progress" marquee. Still needs artwork, t-molding, etc.

An idea of the kind of space i've got to work with for the PC. The shelf is pretty much essential, as it's got a strut that provides support for the control panel, which is only plastic unfortunately. I plan to put holes in it with a 28mm hole saw for air flow.

The back of the cab.

The USB ports are linked to couplers on the other side of the panel, which i plan to run to the rear ports on the motherboard. There's enough space to mount 80 or 92mm fans below them, but not 120mm ones, so the plan that's in the lead so far is to mount two 92mm fans for heatsync intake and PSU exhaust there, and maybe mount a couple of fans behind the main grille at the top of the back panel and use it as a main exhaust to pull heat out of the cab.

There's an air access space at the front of the cab, it has an open bottom to allow access to the sticks and panel wiring, which will allow for air to be pulled in, past the board, upwards past the HDD, and out to the exhaust fans. That's if i go with that idea. I'm open to suggestion, but i can't think of a better way to cool things given what little space i have to work with.

Jack burton

same as my one, someone was looking at the weecade aswell haha

The Last Bandit

Looking good, are they an off the shelf cabinet kit ? Is it a full sized ITX mobo in there ?

[Deleted User]

Jack burton wrote: »

same as my one, someone was looking at the weecade aswell haha

The Last Bandit wrote: »

Looking good, are they an off the shelf cabinet kit ? Is it a full sized ITX mobo in there ?

It's an off the shelf Kit, but with a lot of my own mods. I didn't nick the idea from the weecade, but i think the guy i ordered it from did, lol. It's got a micro ATX board in it that i took out of a small form factor HP desktop, and even with the small board, space is still very tight.

I got the kit from tiny arcade in the UK (http://tinyarcade.co.uk/) but on refelection i regretted not making my own from scratch, much like the weecade. The build quality and finishing work was less than fantastic, owing to the fact that the cab is made of foamed PVC, rather than wood, so it doesn't offer as much strength as I think it needs to have. The blue paintwork is all custom, the kit only comes in white.

I actually had to do a fair bit of modding myself to add some rigidity and strength to it. Some of the pieces supplied just wouldn't have been up to the task, particularly for holding heavy items like monitors, etc without them bending or moving. The monitor shelf, inside shelf, control panel bracing, and the entire back panel are all my own work from scratch. I basically took one look at the original kit pieces, chucked half of them out, redesigned, and rebuilt them out of wood.

I'll post more details and pics of the project once i get it done, but for now i need to sort out this bloody cooling issue. Am starting to feel like this thing will never be finished :mad:

The Last Bandit

I know that feeling, working on a build since Xmas and still got a lot to do on it..

[Deleted User]

The Last Bandit wrote: »

I know that feeling, working on a build since Xmas and still got a lot to do on it..

I've been working on a build for 5 years and Im still not happy!
I realy dont think I'll ever get there,

[Deleted User]

So, i've decided on what i need to do re:cooling, does anyone know where (preferably over the counter in dublin somewhere) i can get my hands on

(a) a hole saw or cutting tool big enough to make a hole for an 80mm fan that won't cost an arm and a leg. Biggest i have is 65mm, which i'll probably use if i can't find what i need. Hopefully the slightly smaller hole won't cause any air flow issues.

and

(b) something like these that will fit over the holes and hide them a bit more than the usual PC fan grilles, as well as matching the look of the vent I've already installed. Have tried most of the usual places, B&Q, woodies, etc, and they've nothing around 100x100mm, all their vents are much bigger.

These are probably a nice to have rather than an essential. I will likely end up just buying the ordinary PC vent grilles, but it would be nice to be able to hide the holes completely, especially as the paint job is going to need a touch up after they're drilled.

CathalDublin

I think the PC fan grills look nicer or if you want to be fancy get something like this

[Deleted User]

Bingo! Just spotted these on overclock.co.uk. They're handy for delivery to ireland, and will match my blue paintjob almost perfectly. They're nice and cheap too.

http://www.overclock.co.uk/product/80mm-Aluminium-Anodized-Mesh-Fan-Filter-Blue_1865.html

rubadub

The nexus D12SL-12 silent fan is a popular one. I had one running and you could barely hear it, people were shocked how quiet it was. I had it connected to a generic DC power supply with settable voltage up to 12V. Only at night with a perfectly quiet house would you notice it from 4ft away.

[Deleted User]

Thanks to everybody for the suggestions. In the end i got some altec 80mm fans with speed selectors on them, and they're whisper quiet so far. I've got them on the medium setting and they're around 20-22db. I also got some dust cover/filters for them from the UK which match the cab's finish nicely.

I mounted the mobo, HDD and PSU and hooked the whole thing up the other night. Then i prayed for a minute or two and switched it on and it all worked. Phew. All i've got to do now is drill the holes for the lower fans on the rear panel, and close it up and pretty it up with t-molding and artwork and stuff, and I'm all done.

Man, I'm looking forward to actually PLAYING this thing....

[Deleted User]

I finally got this cab completely finished. Here's a link to a thread i made with info and more pics. Thanks again to everyone for your help & advice.

Hyperspin Arcade Bartop