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"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

Flukey

I am just about to bring my new Leap card into the strange world of public transport to test it. There are already several Leap threads going and we've already had some points about its usage raised in them. Maybe we can keep this thread for more specific feedback by the people who have actually got a card and leave the more general discussions on it to the other threads. So if you have some specific feedback from actually using the card put it in here, as briefly as possible. Then we can all use it when we are feeding back our experiences in the questionnaires we are all supposed to be getting. If anything arises here that people would like to discuss in more detail, switch to one of the other threads which already have a broad range of discussion about it that is likely to be relevant. Anyway, my Leap card and I are about to head out. Wish us luck!:D

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foggy_lad

Lapin wrote: »

FYP.

By the way, a question. Is there daily price capping with the Leap?

No, that is another feature that is on the coming soon list.

I don't think anyone has brought up being overcharged by Dublin bus drivers validators yet on liveline.

markpb

foggy_lad wrote: »

He accidentally placed his leap card on the reader instead of the rte supplied photocopier card on the rte photocopier and it read his name off the card and allowed him use the photocopier!

Sorry, I misread your original post. It's possible that their photocopier just lazily checks for the existence of any RF device or that it checks the serial number against a list and they happen to coincide. It's hardly relevant other than as a curiosity.

Edit: It definitely didn't read his name from the card because Leap cards are personalised. Maybe the RTE photocopier has mind reading abilities?

Victor

Lapin wrote: »

By the way, a question. Is there daily price capping with the Leap?

Not yet, but it will happen.

foggy_lad wrote: »

He accidentally placed his leap card on the reader instead of the rte supplied photocopier card on the rte photocopier and it read his name off the card and allowed him use the photocopier!

I presume he actually presented the machine with his wallet full of cards and it read the correct one. How would the card know his name? One would be more worried about RTÉ's security if this happened.

foggy_lad

Victor wrote: »

Not yet, but it will happen.
I presume he actually presented the machine with his wallet full of cards and it read the correct one. How would the card know his name? One would be more worried about RTÉ's security if this happened.

Apparently the leap card was in his hand and his wallet left on his desk but it may be possible the machine had his name already if he was the last person to use it?

Has anyone connected to leap been able to hazard a guess as to when or how long "coming soon" will be? Will it be another 12 years?

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

No, that is another feature that is on the coming soon list.

I don't think anyone has brought up being overcharged by Dublin bus drivers validators yet on liveline.

Correct Foggy,but that's probably due to only a miniscule number of the 50,000 + Leapcard users actually having encountered this issue,with quite possibly neither of them actually able to Talk-to-Joe today,,?

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

Correct Foggy,but that's probably due to only a miniscule number of the 50,000 + Leapcard users actually having encountered this issue,with quite possibly neither of them actually able to Talk-to-Joe today,,?

Quite a few have reported being overcharged on boards.ie. what percentage of leap users are registered on boards? It can't be that many so it looks like a larger issue than two or three customers. Again it seems the problem is down to the validators not being programmed properly rather than driver error but only an investigation can say for sure.

Jaysoose

Victor wrote: »

Not yet, but it will happen.
I presume he actually presented the machine with his wallet full of cards and it read the correct one. How would the card know his name? One would be more worried about RTÉ's security if this happened.

This is the most likely occurance and to be honest i wouldnt like to call Joe duffy a sensationalist spoofer or anything but....if the cap fits.

I find it amazing that a man earning 400k a year and with multiple "researchers" expects us to believe this very convenient anomoly with the leap card working on the rte photocopier.

SilverLiningOK

Heard some of this yesterday before I nearly smashed the radio before turning it off. Joe is the most negative chicken-licken running-around-with-hands-in-the-air-screaming tabloid rabble-rousing nit-picking panic merchant out there. He blows everything out of all proportion and is not prepared to see the positive side of anything. The bs rubbish coming out about the Leap card was clearly coming from pure ignorance.

No escape!!

So used Leap card to enter Clontarf Dart station, saw that the Dart was going to be 15 minutes, so decided to leave and get the bus instead.

Tried to use the Leap card to exit the station and the validators say "card already validated" and won't open the gates.

So now I'm trapped in the station!!

Surely this is a health and safety matter, what if there was a fire!!

n97 mini

^ And worse again, if you jump the barrier to make good your escape you'll get charged €4.30 and have to make several phone calls to get your money back.

goingnowhere

Wait 2 minutes and present the card again the gate will open and you will be refunded the fare charged

There is a time delay to prevent accidental multiple tag on offs and passing of the card back in the case of season tickets

Victor

bk wrote: »

Surely this is a health and safety matter, what if there was a fire!!

Use the adjacent fire escape?

Not that there is much to burn in the station.

Seaswimmer

Interesting one last night. My teenage son used his card to go from Deansgrange crossroads to N11 (stop before Fosters avenue) on 46A. He has always paid €1.70 but while getting off last night was charged an extra 25c on his card by the driver..He was obviously over the 8 stages...

Is there an online fare stage calculator one can use...

Dublin Bus
Travel Credit Deduction

05/02/2012

9:59 AM

€-1.70

€13.65

7

Dublin Bus
Travel Credit Deduction

14/02/2012

6:30 PM

€-1.70

€11.95

8

Dublin Bus
Travel Credit Deduction

14/02/2012

6:48 PM

€-0.25

€11.70

markpb

Seaswimmer wrote: »

He has always paid €1.70 but while getting off last night was charged an extra 25c on his card by the driver..He was obviously over the 8 stages...

I've never heard of that happening before, did the driver call him back as he was getting off?

LXFlyer

The stages are at the bottom of the appropriate timetable - the 46a timetable is here.

Deansgrange Cross is stage 56, while the appropriate stage for the stop before Fosters Avenue is stage 65 (Stillorgan Road - Seafield Road), being the nearest stage after that stop.

9 stages = Leap Fare of EUR 1.95

The EUR 1.70 fare expired at Stillorgan Road (Mount Merrion Avenue).

From the Dublin Bus website:

Stages

The number of stages travelled is calculated by deducting the boarding stage number from the alighting stage number
Passengers boarding between stage points pay the appropriate fare from the preceding stage point. Passengers alighting between stage points pay the appropriate fare to the next stage point.
All route stages are listed under the timetables.

Seaswimmer

markpb wrote: »

I've never heard of that happening before, did the driver call him back as he was getting off?

yes. thats exactly what happened. if you look at the times on his Leap Card it shows getting on at 18:30 and charged the extra 25c at 18:48..

AlekSmart

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Yes. thats exactly what happened. if you look at the times on his Leap Card it shows getting on at 18:30 and charged the extra 25c at 18:48..

Although it may sound cataclysmic,what Seaswimmers son experienced was being "excessed".

It's a simple procedure which has tended to be used by Inspectors in the excercise of discretion rather than issuing a Standard Fare of €50.

However it may also be used by an observant (or interested) driver as happened here,however in my experience it tends to be used where a passenger voluntarily approaches a Driver to advise of a change in their destination.

Groinshot

I got on yesterday on parnell square when it was raining, as I didn't want to walk back to nassau street in it, asked for a city centre, and was charged 1.95, driver said "Oops".

Victor

Groinshot wrote: »

I got on yesterday on parnell square when it was raining, as I didn't want to walk back to nassau street in it, asked for a city centre, and was charged 1.95, driver said "Oops".

He should have cancelled the transaction there and then and charged you the correct amount.

Steve Allen

Missus has just been told that you have to state the fare and not the destination when getting on a bus. Make up your mind lads. He charged €1.95 as a default, thankfully that was the correct fare.

Groinshot

Steve Allen wrote: »

Missus has just been told that you have to state the fare and not the destination when getting on a bus. Make up your mind lads. He charged €1.95 as a default, thankfully that was the correct fare.

Not helpful. The "City Centre" is a fare, it's 50 cent on a leap card, or 60 cent without one.
@Victor, I wasn't in the mood for arguing, but he should have offered I thought

antoinolachtnai

Steve Allen wrote: »

Missus has just been told that you have to state the fare and not the destination when getting on a bus. Make up your mind lads. He charged €1.95 as a default, thankfully that was the correct fare.

Wrong I think. The LEAP leaflet states that the correct way to do it is to state your destination. This indication is binding under the Dublin Bus by law.

AlekSmart

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Wrong I think. The LEAP leaflet states that the correct way to do it is to state your destination. This indication is binding under the Dublin Bus by law.

Correct,as Antoin states,the requirement is to State the intended destination and tender the appropriate fare.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/About-Us/Dublin-Bus-Bye-Laws/Fares/

Each passenger when boarding a vehicle operated by a driver only shall:
(a) inform the driver of his intended destination, and
(b) except the passenger is already in possession of a valid ticket, pay the appropriate fare for such journey and ensure that he has been issued with a valid ticket and retain such ticket, and
(c) produce his ticket for inspection by an authorised person whenever so requested by such person and inform him of the place at which he boarded the vehicle and the journey he has made or intends to make.

dave13

AlekSmart wrote: »

Correct,as Antoin states,the requirement is to State the intended destination and tender the appropriate fare.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/About-Us/Dublin-Bus-Bye-Laws/Fares/

Only problem being bus drivers don't seem to know the correct fare when its borderline From beside my house to O'Connell St is 3 stages but if I state O'connel st I am invairably charged 1.70 and on one occasion 1.95.
I've started just stating the fare now

AlekSmart

dave13 wrote: »

Only problem being bus drivers don't seem to know the correct fare when its borderline From beside my house to O'Connell St is 3 stages but if I state O'connel st I am invairably charged 1.70 and on one occasion 1.95.
I've started just stating the fare now

Yes Dave13,given the ongoing refusal of the Company to reinstate it's own Fare Stage markings,it's entirely possible that some drivers are unaware of exact stage locations.

However it's also entirely possible that passengers may also be incorrect in this respect.

There is no "borderline",as you state.

A Fare Stage system is,by definition,a precisely defined method of determining the fare.
Each Fare Stage within the Dublin Bus network has to be a definitive Bus Stop (All of which are now numbered

)

One other item of interest for those whose boarding or alighting point is between stage points is the following....

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Fares--Tickets/Fare-Information/

The number of stages travelled is calculated by deducting the boarding stage number from the alighting stage number

Passengers boarding between stage points pay the appropriate fare from the preceeding stage point. Passengers alighting between stage points pay the appropriate fare to the next stage point.

Without knowing the exact location of the stop "beside" Dave13's house it is impossible to confirm the relevant fare.

n97 mini

It also really doesn't help that the information on the DB website about the City Centre fare is hopelessly out of date.

It still says 50c, and it lists bus routes that don't exist any more, e.g. the 128.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/Global/CCF20Leaflet.pdf

AlekSmart

n97 mini wrote: »

It also really doesn't help that the information on the DB website about the City Centre fare is hopelessly out of date.

It still says 50c, and it lists bus routes that don't exist any more, e.g. the 128.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/Global/CCF20Leaflet.pdf

The LeapCard CityCentre Fare remains 50c,whilst the Cash City Centre Zone Fare is 60c.

However,n97 Mini is quite correct in relation to the CCFZ Public Information which is somewhat significantly at variance with what's on-the-streets.

The Zone Map (interestingly no longer referenced on the web-site) quite clearly identified the relevant Bus Stops between which the CCF was valid....however in several cases the on-street hardware directly contradicted the written word.

The 4 and 7 routes for example where the Map clearly states Clare St,Outside Cafe Sol (N0:494) whilst a CCFZ Pink Sign is firmly riveted to the Bus Shelter at Merrion Square/Holles St(NO:493)

Either the printed word is wrong or the CCFZ plate is on the wrong Bustop.

Confusion..? you bet. :eek:

AlekSmart

Given the thread-title here and it's particular relevance to Leap Card I find one aspect of Leapcard's introduction quite perplexing.

At this point some two months after Leapcards introduction there has to my knowledge been any attempt to seek feedback/suggestions from the only Human Operative Interface involved-The Busdriver.

It is beyond my understanding that the NTA/RPA/Leapcard have seemingly relied upon statistics and customer complaints to reach any conclusions on the efficacy (or otherwise) of Leapcard.

This,in spite of continuing observations from Busdrivers on the slow recognition speed and poor physical layout of the Ticket Machines themselves.....do the proprietors feel the Busdrivers inputs to be irrelevant ?

It all appears to be a very odd method of developing what is proposed as a mass market revolutionary travel payment method :rolleyes:

steamengine

From the punter's perspective I would suggest the Leap card works ok for the majority of bus passengers. On the few occasions I've presented mine to the reader and stating my destination to the driver, the machine has read the card quicker than it would take to pop a load of change into the chute. No beeps though or on the last occasion no display to indicate the transaction had taken place. On reading my transaction history though all was in order. So while all the bells and whistles such as audible or visual registry, or a 'tag off' facility, are not in place, there doesn't seem to be any major operational issues with the 'Leap' on Dublin bus from the passengers perspective. In fact it's great in one way as you don't have to be concerned about having the correct fare in change any longer.

steamengine wrote: »

On the few occasions I've presented mine to the reader and stating my destination to the driver, the machine has read the card quicker than it would take to pop a load of change into the chute.

I disagree with this part. I find it takes significantly longer to pay by Leap then to pay by cash (where I have the correct fare).

Do the bus drivers on this forum find this?

My concern is that if it is the case, then as more people use LEAP on the bus, it will have a big negative impact on dwell times and therefore schedules and journey times.