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Why Is Marijuana Illegal?

I_AmThe_Walrus

Firstly, I want to express the fact that I am not a regular user of the drug itself, nor am I condoning it - I am just interested how society has labeled it negatively when they are unwilling to educate the ill-informed about the benefits.

1) It is not in any way, shape or form, addictive, mentally or physically.
2) It has unlimited and legitimate medical uses.
3) It is not a "gateway" drug.
4) If it was legal, organised crime would fall.
5) Government can tax it and give tourism a boost.

The funny thing about this whole farce is, Marijuana has been legal in the Netherlands since the 30's and according to the consumption stats, the Dutch use the recreational drug the least. Not one recorded fatality has occurred from the use of marijuana, yet alcohol and tobacco are severe killers and they're still available.

What are you thoughts? Should it be available for purchase, legally?

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ScumLord

Conas wrote: »

The problem with Marijuana is it can lead users onto trying a lot harder drugs like cocaine and heroin over time.

Only due to it's illegality, if it was sold on it's own through a legal channel people wouldn't have other drugs offered to them.

Overall the one drug leads to another is just a nonsense.

flanders1979

It is addictive.
I have a couple of friends who cant function without it.
Couldn't be bothered reading all this thread same old stuff.
I used to smoke regularly. Made me as forgetful as fcuk.
On the upside I can rewatch every film I watched when stoned, as I probably forgot it or didn't understand it as I was cabbaged.
I intend to watch the twelve monkeys tonight, then fight club. happy days.

Tar.Aldarion

Well everything is addictive possibly. Is it inherently very addictive, I would say no.

I rarely ever do it and am just back from amsterdam where I smoked it for a few days, it is very nice and relaxing sometimes but could take it or leave it in general. I would rather that be legal than alcohol for instance. Does it mess up places where it is legal? No. They smoke less of it than we do and theirs is much better. It also seems much cheaper than drinking or regular smoking, and that was at high tourist prices.

Wudyaquit

In the same boat, flanders.
This nonsense that it's not addictive because it's not physically addictive is only spouted by people who haven't smoked much themselves.
I love the odd smoking session myself now, but when you're at it regularly you've no motivation to do anything else.

UsernameInUse

WHO CARES IF IT IS ADDICTIVE? (It's not)

Nicotine is one of the most addictive drugs in the world as is caffeine. Fancy a few drinks tonight? Get over yourself.

Next weak argument...

DeadParrot

Wudyaquit wrote: »

In the same boat, flanders.
This nonsense that it's not addictive because it's not physically addictive is only spouted by people who haven't smoked much themselves.
I love the odd smoking session myself now, but when you're at it regularly you've no motivation to do anything else.

Just briefly on this.
If you do anything regularly enough you become highly dependent on it.
Weed, drink, junk food, coffee, sweets, video games, porn, exercise (can't relax until I've had my run-type people), gambling, even a relationship*.
Humans are inherently creatures of habit. Remove a habit, even one without physically addictive components, and the withdrawlee will always feel it.

*newly single people often have no ****ing clue what to do with their time. Habit of being constantly with someone etc

Seachmall

Wudyaquit wrote: »

In the same boat, flanders.
This nonsense that it's not addictive because it's not physically addictive is only spouted by people who haven't smoked much themselves.
I love the odd smoking session myself now, but when you're at it regularly you've no motivation to do anything else.

Saying it's addictive because users can sometimes forms strong habitual urges is disingenuous.

The plant it self does not result in addiction. There is no evidence to suggest any chemical within the plant results in a strong, uncontrollable urge that the user can't resist.

The user who frequently and repeatedly uses it causes the addiction. The creation of the habit is not the work of the plant but of the user.

While that may seem like an issue of semantics it's the like suggesting washing your hands is addictive because some people are unable to stop washing their hands (e.g. in extreme cases of OCD). Obviously it isn't the soap or water causing the urge to wash hands, it's the person.

Wudyaquit

UsernameInUse wrote: »

WHO CARES IF IT IS ADDICTIVE? (It's not)

Yeah, why would anyone care about whether or not if it's addictive. People are always so happy with their existing addictions and eager to keep them :rolleyes:

UsernameInUse wrote: »

Nicotine is one of the most addictive drugs in the world as is caffeine. Fancy a few drinks tonight? Get over yourself.

I think you meant to put "Next weak argument" in front of this sentence. This is irrelevant - you think tobacco would be legalized / decriminalised today if it wasn't already so?

Seachmall wrote: »

While that may seem like an issue of semantics it's the like suggesting washing your hands is addictive because some people are unable to stop washing their hands (e.g. in extreme cases of OCD). Obviously it isn't the soap or water causing the urge to wash hands, it's the person.

Not quite the same - most of us wash our hands every day and don't form such a strong habit that we can't stop. I know it's not mentally addictive, but the end effect is the same - over months and years, people find it increasingly difficult to stop, so whatever you want to call it (addictive / habit-forming), most people would prefer that this effect didn't happen and would look on that effect as a negative mark against the drug.

The addictiveness isn't in itself a reason to keep it illegal - I'd actually prefer to see it decriminalised in the same way as it is in Portugal as opposed to Amsterdam, but it annoys the head of me people spouting this nonsense about it not being addictive when if they'd ever actually asked anyone who's smoked any amount they'd be told that it is.

Seachmall

Wudyaquit wrote: »

Not quite the same - most of us wash our hands every day and don't form such a strong habit that we can't stop. I know it's not mentally addictive, but the end effect is the same - over months and years, people find it increasingly difficult to stop, so whatever you want to call it (addictive / habit-forming), most people would prefer that this effect didn't happen and would look on that effect as a negative mark against the drug.

The comparison was just clarify the fact that the object of your addiction is not necessarily the cause of your addiction.

The end result is the same, yes, but the plant is not to blame. To blame the plant is to fail to address the actual addiction, it's also disingenuous.

Gurgle

Wudyaquit wrote: »

This nonsense that it's not addictive because it's not physically addictive

At this point you lost any credibility, that's what addictive means.

when you're at it regularly you've no motivation to do anything else.

Chicken / egg, you're confusing cause and effect. You've no motivation to do anything so you spend your time smoking pot. If pot didn't exist, you'd just be lying in bed ****.

gsxr1

Just a point I have noticed through out my life.

Most very successful people I have known with large houses and new cars have never touched the stuff or had the odd joint in their collage days.

Most unsuccessful people I have known smoke it a lot. People with **** or no jobs. Have a crap house if any and cant drive, let alone buy one.

I smoke the odd time for the last 20 years. I would be in between the 2 scenarios. mr middle.

This is a generalization on my behalf , but it was noticeable by me and has no fact to prove it.

Knowing this, I would like my children to stay away from it. So I would like it not to be legal.

mikom

gsxr1 wrote: »

Just a point I have noticed through out my life.

Most very successful people I have known with large houses and new cars have never touched the stuff or had the odd joint in their collage days.

Most unsuccessful people I have known smoke it a lot. People with **** or no jobs. Have a crap house if any and cant drive, let alone buy one.

I smoke the odd time for the last 20 years. I would be in between the 2 scenarios. mr middle.

This is a generalization on my behalf , but it was noticeable by me and has no fact to prove it.

Knowing this, I would like my children to stay away from it. So I would like it not to be legal.

Correlation not causation.

Most unsuccessful people I have known survive on a diet of takeaways. People with **** or no jobs. Have a crap house if any and cant drive, let alone buy one.

Most unsuccessful people I have known follow Man United. People with **** or no jobs. Have a crap house if any and cant drive, let alone buy one.

Temptamperu

So we shouldnt legalise it because its addictive, makes you unmotivated and in some cases may cause psychosis. But its still on the market albeit the black market the only thing that would change if it were legal is where you would buy it.

Gurgle

gsxr1 wrote: »

Most very successful people I have known with large houses and new cars have never touched the stuff or had the odd joint in their collage days.

How can you possibly know this?
The successful people I know who smoke are subtle about it. They don't make it public knowledge and don't let it affect their lives, careers and ambitions.

If anything, relaxing with a joint or five at the weekend lets them unwind completely and go back to work on monday with the energy to launch into work again.

gsxr1 wrote: »

Knowing this, I would like my children to stay away from it. So I would like it not to be legal.

Legal or illegal has little bearing on people choosing to smoke or not.
People that don't smoke for the sole reason that its illegal are few and far between. The Irish just aren't programmed that way.

Wudyaquit

Gurgle wrote: »

At this point you lost any credibility, that's what addictive means.

Errr. No. It's not. Addiction can be physical or psychological.
(since you've decided that misunderstanding the meaning of a word means a loss of all credibility, does that mean you're finished now that you've lost yours??).

Gurgle wrote: »

Chicken / egg, you're confusing cause and effect. You've no motivation to do anything so you spend your time smoking pot. If pot didn't exist, you'd just be lying in bed ****.

Sure thing - people who smoke are demotivated beforehand and they're as likely to shake it off by smoking as by stopping.
I'm not confusing anything. I'm talking about regular smokers not wanting to do much else, but when they give up getting a burst of energy - I've given up twice in the past and eexperienced it, as have friends who've given up.

mikom

Wudyaquit wrote: »

I'm talking about regular smokers not wanting to do much else, but when they give up getting a burst of energy - I've given up twice in the past and eexperienced it, as have friends who've given up.

You/they were smoking too much if it was affecting you in that way.

Bread makes me feel bloated and slow, so I don't eat much of it even though I love it.
Easily managed when you put your mind to it.

Snowie

is any one here a recovering addict ?

yas all seem to think you know about addiction... .

Marijuana is not addictive... people get used to coming home after a days work sitting on the couch after the dinner pulling 3 rizallas out lick sticking packing, and roll up. It become a habit the same way some people come home from work a cork a bottle of red, and have a glass, we all have are different relaxing methods.

its called habit... don't confuse the two :rolleyes:

If some ones claiming there addicted to MJ there talking ****e that or there using it as an excuse to continue getting stoned, as they don't wanna stop. There lying through there teath....

heroin is addictive, crack is addictive, coke is addictive...

Gurgle

Wudyaquit wrote: »

Addiction can be physical or psychological.

Psychological addiction to drugs?
Based on science and experience I reject this hypothesis.

A habit may be very hard to break, this does not equate to an addiction.

Wudyaquit

mikom wrote: »

You/they were smoking too much if it was affecting you in that way.

Bread makes me feel bloated and slow, so I don't eat much of it even though I love it.
Easily managed when you put your mind to it.

I know well it's down to excess, but it is something experienced by a lot of regular smokers which is why it's a point worth making.
I'll say again that I'm not against smoking dope. Far from it. It just annoys me people purposefully misinforming others that these negative aspects either don't exist or aren't relevant.

Seachmall

Wudyaquit wrote: »

It just annoys me people purposefully misinforming others that these negative aspects either don't exist or aren't relevant.

Suggesting it's addictive is far more misinforming.

Temptamperu

Wudyaquit wrote: »

I know well it's down to excess, but it is something experienced by a lot of regular smokers which is why it's a point worth making.
I'll say again that I'm not against smoking dope. Far from it. It just annoys me people purposefully misinforming others that these negative aspects either don't exist or aren't relevant.

but theres negative effects for everything, leaving cannibis out is only driving people to criminality and putting money in scumbags pockets when it could be helping schools or hospitals.

Wudyaquit

Snowie wrote: »

is any one here a recovering addict ?

yas all seem to think you know about addiction... .

Marijuana is not addictive... people get used to coming home after a days work sitting on the couch after the dinner pulling 3 rizallas out lick sticking packing, and roll up. It become a habit the same way some people come home from work a cork a bottle of red, and have a glass, we all have are different relaxing methods.

its called habit... don't confuse the two :rolleyes:

If some ones claiming there addicted to MJ there talking ****e that or there using it as an excuse to continue getting stoned, as they don't wanna stop. There lying through there teath....

heroin is addictive, crack is addictive, coke is addictive...

Heroin and coke are much more powerfullly addictive but what does that say. NOt sure comparing to drinking wine really backs up your point, but if you're saying the addiction is purely down to the process, by that logic, they'd be just as happy to remove the dope and smoke some inhaler kind of thing. Which is nonsense.
IT's addiction because peopel will continue to smoke even if they themselves want, for whatever reason, to stop.

Rezident

I'd say it was when the Americans were banning it and going around the world forcing other countries to ban it that whoever was making laws had freaked out on it - an amateur mistake - and so wrongly thought it was more dangerous than, say alcohol.

If alcohol is legal then weed should be too, it's far less dangerous. There is also the argument of taking away so much earning power from organised crime and taxeing it etc. but you'd need broad support to stop the amsterdam example of attracting skangers from everywhere.

Wudyaquit

Temptamperu wrote: »

but theres negative effects for everything, leaving cannibis out is only driving people to criminality and putting money in scumbags pockets when it could be helping schools or hospitals.

I'm not arguing. I've said already I'm not against decriminalising it.

gsxr1

Gurgle wrote: »

How can you possibly know this?
The successful people I know who smoke are subtle about it. They don't make it public knowledge and don't let it affect their lives, careers and ambitions.

If anything, relaxing with a joint or five at the weekend lets them unwind completely and go back to work on monday with the energy to launch into work again.

Legal or illegal has little bearing on people choosing to smoke or not.
People that don't smoke for the sole reason that its illegal are few and far between. The Irish just aren't programmed that way.

I did say it is what I see . Not what I have read somewhere . Just my own general opinion . Im sure you have seen the reverse somewhere.

On your second point, I agree. But it makes it easier for me to enforce a point to my children if I have the law on my side.

I'm by no means dead against the stuff. But I am also not blind to its negative effects, and through the years have seen friends abuse the stuff as much as alcohol

Gurgle

Wudyaquit wrote: »

It just annoys me people purposefully misinforming others that these negative aspects either don't exist or aren't relevant.

Of course there are negative aspects, there is no such thing as a healthy smoke. But exaggerating or mis-representing the negative effects distracts attention from genuine problems.

This is exactly why marijuana should be legalized, regulated, made un-available to children and controlled for quality.

gsxr1 wrote:

it makes it easier for me to enforce a point to my children if I have the law on my side

I disagree, if its illegal and never mentioned in front of the children then when they have the opportunity to try it in school, the last thing they'll do is mention it to their parents.

Taking the usual parallel with alcohol, my kids see me have a beer or two / a couple of glasses of wine on a friday night. I don't hide it from them, and equally I don't get hammered. I think I'm showing a good example of careful restrained use of alcohol. I can't show such an example with marijuana because its illegal. I'd be effectively saying that its ok to break laws you don't agree with. To a certain extent, this is how I feel but its very very difficult to teach kids about the shades of grey that exist between black and white.

mikom

Wudyaquit wrote: »

I know well it's down to excess, but it is something experienced by a lot of regular smokers which is why it's a point worth making.
I'll say again that I'm not against smoking dope. Far from it. It just annoys me people purposefully misinforming others that these negative aspects either don't exist or aren't relevant.

That should read....

"I know well it's down to excess, but it is something experienced by a lot of regular people."

Don't do anything to excess folks.
Whether it be...
Drinking alcohol or water
eating
dieting
speeding
gaming
internet browsing
reading in dim light
playing soccer
****

Once it starts obviously affecting your health, relationships, and ability to work, then it's time to rein it in.

Most smokers who grow for themselves I have found are of the less dopey, more motivated variety.
Reason being...... you have to have your **** together otherwise you get busted and/or produce a crap crop.

Wudyaquit

Gurgle wrote: »

Psychological addiction to drugs?
Based on science and experience I reject this hypothesis.

A habit may be very hard to break, this does not equate to an addiction.

"Based on science". Nice one.
Fair enough - thanks for your medical opinion. Might go out and get me some cocaine for Paddy's day.
Absolutely ridiculous.

Snowie

Wudyaquit wrote: »

Heroin and coke are much more powerfullly addictive but what does that say. NOt sure comparing to drinking wine really backs up your point, but if you're saying the addiction is purely down to the process, by that logic, they'd be just as happy to remove the dope and smoke some inhaler kind of thing. Which is nonsense.
IT's addiction because peopel will continue to smoke even if they themselves want, for whatever reason, to stop.

do you smoke Marijuna ?

Wudyaquit

Snowie wrote: »

do you smoke Marijuna ?

Yes, why?