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RTÉNL Saorview-DTT Public Information

The Cush

Two new documents added to the RTÉNL Saorview webpage - http://www.rtenl.ie/broadcast/saorview-digital-television.html and also link to the Saorview Coverage Checker

- Connecting a Television Set to SAORVIEW - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/connecting_a_television_set_to_saorview.pdf
- RTÉ NL SAORVIEW FAQ's - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/rtenl_saorview_faqs_feb_2011_rev_1.pdf

To be read in conjunction with the Saorview-DTT-October2010 brochure and Saorview-DTT Minimum Receiver Requirements.

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mike65

Consumer rights expert Tina Leonard is on Pat Kennys show after 11 am to confuse the public :pac:

mike65

bump!

www.rte.ie/radio1

Macy0161

mike65 wrote: »

Consumer rights expert Tina Leonard is on Pat Kennys show after 11 am to confuse the public :pac:

Actually, it was probably the best thing on saorview I've heard so far, especially the bit going through what you're receiving now, and what you may or may not have to do based on that.

Apogee

More or less the same info she has given on previous occasions on PK show, but did mention that for the 2% who can't get Saorview, they will have the option of Saorsat.

Macy0161

Apogee wrote: »

More or less the same info she has given on previous occasions on PK show, but did mention that for the 2% who can't get Saorview, they will have the option of Saorsat.

If she could just shut up Kenny himself from trying to confuse the issue.

Sam Russell

Why do they not emphasise SAORVIEW IS ON THE AIR NOW!

They are talking about ASO, which will happen later, not telling the public to try Saorview now.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

Why do they not emphasise SAORVIEW IS ON THE AIR NOW!

They are talking about ASO, which will happen later, not telling the public to try Saorview now.

The Department, BAI and the Broadcasters are happy to wait until DSO/ASO occurs before mentioning being available right now. This is made clear in the BAI deliberations which stated

There would appear to be sufficient capacity on Multiplex 1 to carry the services currently available during the test period, together with the additional RTÉ services which were recently approved, following the sectoral impact assessment and public value review. With regard to the proposed services emerging from the expressions of interest process, these are not likely to be in a position to commence operations until near to or beyond analogue switch off in October 2012. In these circumstances, the question of the requirement to introduce the second RTÈ multiplex in 2011 should be considered further by the Minister

while in relation to the move by the previous minister (Carey) to ask RTÉ to begin broadcasting on MUX 2 it is clear that the BAI do not expect Mux 2 to be available until stations are ready, which they believe will only be available after analogue switch off (if at all <<< but they don't state this).

It is clear that TV3 enjoy the press/news of their new services, but have no real intention of even considering 3Classics or 3Kids, and are a maybe on TV3+1. And only mention 3e being on Saorview in relation to sport and in particular only when Irish teams are playing in the Europa Cup play offs, because they moved such games away from TV3 to 3e. On the other hand TV3HD provides great exposure for the channel, how many times do they mention their new HD studio????

TG4 are waiting on the Minister to ask the Broadcasting Division in the dept to carry out "public value review" and the BAI to carry out "sectoral impact assessment" both of which will occur in October rather the right now (you'd wonder what exactly the dept and the BAI are waiting for??? ASO perhaps????).

You'd think that the minister would ask for both TV3+1 and TG4+1 to be made available right now or even have made a statement on when such channels should launch and that they should be TEMPORARY.

RTÉ are also the same in relation to both RTÉ News Now and RTÉjr. Little cross promtion of these channels on RTÉ News broadcasts or RTÉ Two's TRTÉ.

E.g. One O'Clock News mentioned that nominations of the Oscars were to be announced, the newsreader failed to mention that those with access to RTÉ News News online or via Soarview can see the nominations live.

E.g. When RTÉ Two finishes its broadcast of RTÉjr it does not suggest to viewers that more fun can be had over on the RTÉjr Channel which is available on Saorview.

E.g. At 7pm mentioning on RTÉ One that RTÉ One+1 is just starting on Saorview, it just doesn't happen.

It is clear that the broadcasters are willing to wait until ASO and lets faces it 2013 before work towards launching the new services. At which point it will be far too late and when many will still be in discussions with UPC and Sky to provided them with access to their platforms (or have they even spoken with them yet????).

Broadcasters, Platform providers, Regulators and the Department are inert and really don't give a ****. The whole thing is a failure, however technically a success.

Technical success did not and does not need a multi-million euro marketing campaign.

watty

I doubt that there will be any new channels other than maybe the Oireachtas Channel, which has had an infrastructure running and costing €10M to €20M+ a year for maybe 5 years already. It's been available "online". Proposals that are not contractual to BAI are cheap marketing.

The realities are:
1) It's not about more channels
2) Not about getting UK TV
3) Simple replacement of Analogue with Digital giving Widescreen, better Teletext and occasional HD.
4) The fantasy of Government belief of making €500M selling of TV spectrum (They might get €50M to €150M depending how stupid the Mobile operators are). Not for Broadband, that's a lie, but simply for a more rural version of 3G Mobile data service at similar or lower quality, even if it uses LTE.

Elmo

watty wrote: »

The fantasy of Government belief of making €500M selling of TV spectrum (They might get €50M to €150M depending how stupid the Mobile operators are). Not for Broadband, that's a lie, but simply for a more rural version of 3G Mobile data service at similar or lower quality, even if it uses LTE.

Can we have faith that such services will be launched as soon as ASO/DSO occurs have ComReg issued licences or begun a licencing round?

I know Eircom have 4G mobile phone licence, as did smart telecom. And that OfCom are currently talking with UK 4G providers about the use of the spectrum?

Is there any concrete news on the "Digital Dividend"? (excluding extra broadcasting space which I include in the Digital Dividend though I don't think such services are considered as such).

watty

Eircom do not have a 4G licence. Smart never had even a 3G licence. They won a 3G auction and then disqualified, so Meteor (Eircom) got the last 3G licence that Smart would have won.

Yes, Ofcom and Comreg are trying to do the same. Their plans on 800MHz band will not deliver Broadband or anything we don't have today.

The "Digital Dividend" is purely the concept of selling off part of the TV band after ASO to the highest bidder. The "Dividend" is almost solely whatever revenue is realised from an 800MHz licence sale.

So it does nothing for Broadcast except for a Generation limit it. Since "Broadband" quality connections would require Fixed Wireless and many more basestation, it will not deliver Broadband, but only Mobile Data at similar performance to what we have to day. Rural coverage (due to cost of basestations) will not be much better. They will build minimum number of mobile bases to ensure meeting the weak licence conditions.

To build a decent 4G Network would cost the same as a Mix of Fibre to Home or Cabinet for EVERY premises in Ireland with a minimum 20Mbps and over 70% getting more than 100Mbps. You don't need to sell of TV spectrum for that.

Eircom's Debt is TWICE what a 4G network or Universal Fibre Broadband would cost. Forget Eircom, they are history.

zg3409

Tina Leonard has a full page on Saorview in todays Irish Indepedent P31 Thursday 2nd Feb.

I couldn't find it online.

It's not bad but I would have a few comments on some parts but fairly good.

She mentions approved combi boxes will be available in a few weeks time, but that's another thread.

She alse mentions Saorsat "by October 24th" but that's a different thread.

watty

Yes, the Saorsat announcement is soon, but the service is later...

The Cush

watty wrote: »

Yes, the Saorsat announcement is soon, but the service is later...

Watty, can you just post the announcement and put us out of our misery. We won't tell it was you

watty

I really don't know exactly when RTE or RTENL or Saorview will make the low key announcement. Or exactly what it will say.

It will not have all the points in my summary!

This is likely NOTHING LIKE the RTE Announcement!

Summary:

Saorsat is an infill and backup service (we knew that from RTE statement at the Committee hearing July 2010 I think)
It's on 9E Ka-Sat. (I said that on the day it was announced, based on my remembrance of meetings about Ka-Sat with the people people providing it for Internet. But only now RTE admit this is true!)
The service is going ahead (I never believed it would not, but that's "official")
RTENL and RTE are "happy" with Coverage (But we don't know what their goals are!), testing completed.
The Service might not be "live" when the "Announcement" is made. It may be live later, but will be live before ASO, 24th October 2012.
The Onwave LNBFs are the real thing (But they "jumped the gun" selling them already).
Everyone that sells Sat gear in Ireland ought to have the Ka-band LNBFs before the service is live.
There might be only 20,000 LNBFs (But there might be 25,000 households that can't get Saorview, but 10,000 to 15,000 of those might have Irish TV via Sky so won't bother)
The dish is 80cm for a single feed! (44cm is technically possible, it sort of makes sense what they are doing! The south east can likely offset LNB for 28E and point at 9E, larger dishes needed esp for Eurobird channels from 28E in North West and far South West. The Ka-Sat Irish Spot footprint better than Eurobird for Donegal.
It's likely at launch and maybe indefinitely no TV3 or 3E (As they are not going to pay even a small amount for maybe 1% to 2% more viewers when DTT has already added 3E and given them nearly 20% more than Analogue)
You need a DVB-S2 box with MHEG5 and HD. (A Freesat box with Diseqec and "other channels" will at least tune the stations. There is 3rd party SW for Humax to semi-integrate the channels into "freesat mode" and keep Diseqc active)
You need dual feed or two dishes to get Sky/Freesat and Saorsat. A Diseqc switch is only good for one tuner. For a PVR you need 2 x Diseqc switches or a Multiswitch. A multiswitch can do 8 x PVRs and even Sky boxes (but only for Sky, sub or not). Multiswitches can be extended to 1000 rooms and four satellites.
A good meter is needed for Alignment as setting up an 80cm dish Ka-Band is about as hard as perfectly aligning a 1.1m dish on Freesat (x4 harder than 65cm on Sky/Freesat!), but no Skew adjustment.

The Cush

watty wrote: »

[*]The Service might not be "live" when the "Announcement" is made. It may be live later, but will be live before ASO, 24th March 2012.

We know RTÉ/RTÉNL have said very little official to date on Saorsat but they have said the service is expected to be formally live this month or next in the recent revision to the Saorview FAQ - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76732192&postcount=1911, probably waiting for sufficient receivers and LNBs to be available for those requiring the service before confirming the start date.

BTW typo there on the ASO date

watty

it's unclear to me if the "announcement" is in the next 6 weeks or "announcement" AND Live service.

The actual "announcement" which will not be as low key as in Douglas Adam's THGTTG (locked toilet in council offices basement) will no doubt have a service commencement date or be coincident with the service going live or just before it. I don't know.

I've had two discussions (with different people), both mentioning Feb/March, but neither clear if that's the "Official Announcement" or start of Live Service.

Elmo

zg3409 wrote: »

Tina Leonard has a full page on Saorview in todays Irish Indepedent P31 Thursday 2nd Feb.

I couldn't find it online.

It's not bad but I would have a few comments on some parts but fairly good.

She mentions approved combi boxes will be available in a few weeks time, but that's another thread.

She alse mentions Saorsat "by October 24th" but that's a different thread.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/smart-consumer/smart-consumer-how-you-can-turn-on-tune-in-and-decode-saorview-3007654.html

And unlikely goingdigital.ie she freely mentions FTA Satellite.

The Cush

Saorview discussion on Today with PK on Radio 1 this morning, mentioned after Morning Ireland.

evilivor

The Cush wrote: »

Saorview discussion on Today with PK on Radio 1 this morning, mentioned after Morning Ireland.

Saorview Brian is on at the moment - will be back following news and sport.

Elmo

evilivor wrote: »

Saorview Brian is on at the moment - will be back following news and sport.

Where is Going Digital Brian?

zg3409

Full page Article in Todays Irish Indo

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/thousands-ditch-pay-tv-to-save-money-ahead-of-digital-deadline-3018259.html

By Aideen Sheehan Consumer Correspondent

Tuesday February 14 2012

THOUSANDS of householders are ditching their TV subscriptions and moving to free services that can save them hundreds of euros each year.

And industry experts predict the move away from pricey subscriptions will accelerate in advance of the switch from an analogue to digital-only television service in October.

They said many consumers were considering if they could afford the yearly pricetag of €300 to €950 for TV services when there were high-quality alternatives available for free.

Figures obtained by the Irish Independent show that more than 44,000 homes have moved to free TV services in the last two years. Industry sources indicate that this has accelerated since RTE announced it would move to the Saorview digital-only service this October.

TV audience measurement body TAM Ireland said the number of Irish homes with Freesat -- a free satellite-based service offering most of the major UK channels -- as their primary source of TV reception stood at 170,000 just before Christmas.

The number had increased from 124,000 in early 2010.

"As people are sizing up their options in the build-up to the official analogue switch-off in October this year it is expected to grow further," TAM Ireland said.

Sales of Saorview-approved digital TVs -- which can receive TV3 and RTE's digital stations -- exceeded 67,000 in 2011, while another 8,000 consumers purchased Saorview approved set-top boxes to receive Irish channels on existing TVs.

Official figures from cable-television provider UPC, meanwhile, show it lost 16,600 TV subscribers in Ireland in the first nine months of 2011, bringing their total down to 473,300.

A UPC spokeswoman said the loss of TV subscribers was down to competition in the market and emigration, with some customers switching to free services given the tough economic climate.

Sky does not release figures for its Irish subscriber base, but figures from research firm AC Nielsen show it has 675,000 TV customers here -- up from 637,000 a year ago.

Dubliner Adrienne Carolan moved from UPC to a freeview satellite/aerial service three weeks ago.

The new equipment and installation cost her around €900 -- higher than the average €300 to €400 price due to particular wiring issues in her home -- but the picture quality and range of channels is superb.

"It will pay for itself within two and a half years and I will never have to pay another TV bill again. I needed to look at my costs when I retired, and I couldn't be happier with this service," she said.

Satellite

The availability of free high-definition sports coverage on RTE 2 HD on Saorview is proving a big incentive to switch as this channel is not available on any subscription service, said Tony Moore, owner of Satellite.ie which installs satellites and aerials along the east coast.

Michael Hickey, of freesat.ie, said that many elderly people paying €300 a year for a piped TV service were switching to a free service, as were many families who liked their Sky Sports but couldn't afford it any more because they'd lost their jobs.

Limerick satellite installer Val Olshansky, of freetoairireland.com, said that about half his freeview customers were giving up subscription services, and the other half were upgrading from aerial-based analogue services offering only the basic Irish channels.

- Aideen Sheehan Consumer Correspondent

This web link is missing some of the article onpage 11 of todays indo.

Sam Russell

zg3409 wrote: »

Full page Article in Todays Irish Indo

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/thousands-ditch-pay-tv-to-save-money-ahead-of-digital-deadline-3018259.html

By Aideen Sheehan Consumer Correspondent

Tuesday February 14 2012

THOUSANDS of householders are ditching their TV subscriptions and moving to free services that can save them hundreds of euros each year.

Goodness, an article in the Indo that can be beleived and not full of errors.

Is this a record?

zg3409

Sam Russell wrote: »

Goodness, an article in the Indo that can be beleived and not full of errors.

Is this a record?

If you read the paper article

"UK Channels such as the BBC will not longer be available via a rooftop aerial, ..."

Which is incorrect

They also say with Sky you can pause and record, without mentioning you can do the same with Freesat+ etc

Cantona's Collars

Some basic errors in that article there,such as no mention of pvr's that are available.Many think that Sky & UPC are the only ones who offer recording on boxes.

A lot of people are misled by the hype generated from Saorview,I've met & spoke to lots who believe they are going to get Sky channels on Saorview for free and are sorely dissapointed when they find out it's just Irish tv channels going digital.To quote a friend of mine when I explained what Saorview was: "that's shite,I'll stick with Sky"

The public information needs to be clearer as a lot of the public are going on heresay and half truths they get from friends and neighbours.Some of the posts here are a microcosm of the problems with the info that's out there,we've had folk plugging satellite dishes and UPC cables into saorview boxes and these aren't old people either.

Elmo

zerks wrote: »

Some basic errors in that article there,such as no mention of pvr's that are available.Many think that Sky & UPC are the only ones who offer recording on boxes.

A lot of people are misled by the hype generated from Saorview,I've met & spoke to lots who believe they are going to get Sky channels on Saorview for free and are sorely dissapointed when they find out it's just Irish tv channels going digital.To quote a friend of mine when I explained what Saorview was: "that's shite,I'll stick with Sky"

The public information needs to be clearer as a lot of the public are going on heresay and half truths they get from friends and neighbours.Some of the posts here are a microcosm of the problems with the info that's out there,we've had folk plugging satellite dishes and UPC cables into saorview boxes and these aren't old people either.

Very true people don't know the difference between Pay TV and Free TV. The amount of people that I know that think Sky One is a FTA channel in Britain just because we've had it on cable for years.

watty

A lot of people still don't realise what their Sky box does without a sub or what a Real "Freesat HD" box or PVR is like compared to a generic sat box, or how much of the important UK TV is free.

Sky 1 gets less than 2% viewing time among those that have it.

Cantona's Collars

watty wrote: »

A lot of people still don't realise what their Sky box does without a sub or what a Real "Freesat HD" box or PVR is like compared to a generic sat box, or how much of the important UK TV is free.

Sky 1 gets less than 2% viewing time among those that have it.

I think the problem with lack of knowledge is even more prevalent in cable areas due to a couple of generations knowing nothing else but pay tv.I tried explaining freesat to a few people and got the reply "sure that's illegal".They thought it was like those dodgy boxes that were doing the rounds.Satellite pay tv subscribers are a bit more clued in.
The same problems are surfacing again with Saorview,in all honesty,the public have been pretty much left in the dark regarding information about it.A simple ad showing what's available and what's needed would be better than what's out there now.

Elmo

zerks wrote: »

I think the problem with lack of knowledge is even more prevalent in cable areas due to a couple of generations knowing nothing else but pay tv.I tried explaining freesat to a few people and got the reply "sure that's illegal".They thought it was like those dodgy boxes that were doing the rounds.Satellite pay tv subscribers are a bit more clued in.
The same problems are surfacing again with Saorview,in all honesty,the public have been pretty much left in the dark regarding information about it.A simple ad showing what's available and what's needed would be better than what's out there now.

Yeah I have spoken to people who thought FTA satellite was Dodgy boxes.

But then both campaign ignore FTA satellite. The Dept's non-existent campaign is not allowed mention it for some reason, while in fairness the Saorview guys know, but its a different platform.

zg3409

From Saorview Brian (Geraghty) RTENL discussion on RTE Radio 1 with Pat Kenny.

Postcast/MP3

See this post:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77088387&postcount=365

Finally someone who knows what he is talking about, being interviewed.

Strawberry HillBilly

Good piece on Saorview on Ear to the Ground tonight aimed at rural audience - beginning of information ramp up ?