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Child Item

New Household Tax - Boycott

bkeano

Hi all Boardies

Can we all please make a stance here and get our non boardies to do the same. Enough is Enough We should not pay this new household Tax. Its the same as the Poll tax in the UK. I am an normal Joe Soap with 2 kids. I cant pay any more Taxes. I can afford it as it is. I am lucky to have my Job.

We need to mount a serious objection here and nationwide.

thanks
Brian

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The Waltzing Consumer

Biggins wrote: »

You ask a good question.

My own opinion?
Of course you are right.
A party should be able to look at the present and future and create an honest policy not based on emotion and out-of-date principles.

I problem I have (and I cannot state enough - I could be TOTALLY wrong for thinking this and I admit to that) is that FG (and now Labour) are so very willing to jump into this newer home tax for the simple reason of trying (I surmise) to fill a financial shortfall partly created by the shoving of money towards the banks and bondholders - and for that reason only, that is what has caused a position-reversal.

Their position-reversal not being about party policy towards whats good for the the people but simple for them to later facilitate the ability to do the above (banks and bondholders) in the long run, one way or another.
Its unsettling (to me) that they are willing to adopt a home tax for the sake of pure financial reasons and although that might make sense - it begs the question:

"Should all positions be allowed be reversed/compromised due to finance reasons alone?"

I hope I'm making sense what I'm trying to say.
(Even if I am wrong in saying it)

No you are right. But this is nature of coalitions is it not? Neither party got the mandate to party alone and implement all their policies.

So whilst it is easier to point the finger at FG or LAB, they merely reflect the majority of society, that's who the blame should be put on.

Biggins

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

No you are right. But this is nature of coalitions is it not? Neither party got the mandate to party alone and implement all their policies.

So whilst it is easier to point the finger at FG or LAB, they merely reflect the majority of society, that's who the blame should be put on.

...But (open question to all, not just directed at yourself) are they merely reflecting the majority of society presently when it come to the Home Tax?
Be they a coalition or single party, are they representing the majority of society on this issue?
Myself, I suspect not.
(...But I could be wrong if a good poll was taken and I was rightly showed I was wrong)

Chucky the tree

Biggins wrote: »

...But (open question to all, not just directed at yourself) are they merely reflecting the majority of society presently when it come to the Home Tax?
Be they a coalition or single party, are they representing the majority of society on this issue?
Myself, I suspect not.
(...But I could be wrong if a good poll was taken and I was rightly showed I was wrong)

What do you mean by representing? Majority of people probably don't want a property tax, however majority of people want to pay as little tax as possible. In general I don't Fine Gael or Labour will lose any votes due to the property tax, I think most sane people agree it's a smart tax that is needed. I think the complete lack of support for the loony lefties who are trying to boycott this while plenty of people have signed up shows this. So does the fact that according to polls support for FG and Labour hasn't dropped significantly.

hallelujajordan

Biggins wrote: »

...But (open question to all, not just directed at yourself) are they merely reflecting the majority of society presently when it come to the Home Tax?
Be they a coalition or single party, are they representing the majority of society on this issue?
Myself, I suspect not.
(...But I could be wrong if a good poll was taken and I was rightly showed I was wrong)

A poll was taken by RedC for Paddypower and commented on last week which showed that 15% of people would not pay the household charge. . that would seem to indicate that a majority in society accept the need for a household charge even if they don't like it . .

And anyway, do we not need government to start thinking more about what society needs than what it wants. Isn't it years of giving society what it wanted in order to win votes what has us in this mess ? ?

Biggins

hallelujajordan wrote: »

A poll was taken by RedC for Paddypower and commented on last week which showed that 15% of people would not pay the household charge. . that would seem to indicate that a majority in society accept the need for a household charge even if they don't like it . .

And anyway, do we not need government to start thinking more about what society needs than what it wants. Isn't it years of giving society what it wanted in order to win votes what has us in this mess ? ?

While in that poll, I would also take into account that people also just want ot be law abiding citizens as well as fearing what would happen not paying, there is an element of possible truth in that poll.

As for your latter point, there is very certainly some good thinking in that too.

steamengine

hallelujajordan wrote: »

A poll was taken by RedC for Paddypower and commented on last week which showed that 15% of people would not pay the household charge. . that would seem to indicate that a majority in society accept the need for a household charge even if they don't like it . .

......or people are afraid not to pay it because of the consequences. The government may wish to call it a household charge, which is just spinning what it really is, an extra tax which will be paid (or not as the case may be) by property owners.

perry stanley

If EVERYONE knew just how much was been wasted, I am sure it would ease the burden on all of us, including the 'ones' who 'run and ruin' our country.
Let me put a few examples;
1 the laundry allowance 3.5k pa each TD ..when and if the suits had to be cleaned, (some don't even wear suits). A leading laundry company acknowledged they could do it every day they sat , ...for a third of that and still make it pay.
2 ..our local council, moved out of their offices, had the ESB disconnected and are renting a nice bungalow ( in a rural town) as alternative offices for 1100 a WEEK :eek:.
Nearby (within a 1/2 mile) sits a vocational school, property of the same council that is no longer used and before it closed was in good order. My point is it could have been utilised as offices for a saving.
Meanwhile the local lads on the ground (council workers) discovered they had nowhere to brew their tea since the power had been disconnected at the place they vacated, so instead of having it switched on again they went and bought a big generator 8k and all it does is boil a kettle!!650
3 how many of us know of roads having repairs done and some of these roads are not the one that actually need the work. This is particularly visible , coming up to Xmas as the council engineers get a bonus linked and as apercentage of how much they spend

4 In a major city to the south while remedial work was been carried out to the courthouse and motor tax offices, alternative sites/buildings where rented.
The works to both were completed in approx 4-5 years, so they moved back to the original establishments. ( God only knows what these costs were !:()
BOTH of the alternative sites continues to be rented at over 300k EACH, despite the fact they have been vacated.
The reason given ,the rent was agreed for a 10 year lease:eek:

5 A paramedic working for our glorious Health board, regularly uses an emergency vehicle to transport items between his properties, even firewood.
You would feel pretty sick if a vehicle was not available, because he was collecting firewood.
Now if that is a sample of what is going on ( and MORE) in my little area of this island how many other people know of such 'facts'.
The waste is phenomenal. Instead of picking on us let them get their own set ups in order first.
I would be a very conservative estimate to say that 650k a year is being wasted here alone.
How much more do any of you KNOW about.
This is not gossip/hearsay.
Imagine if throughout our 26 counties we could find out just how much is being wasted :rolleyes:
We bitch /moan/etc but we should be on the streets:cool:

Godge

Biggins wrote: »

...But (open question to all, not just directed at yourself) are they merely reflecting the majority of society presently when it come to the Home Tax?
Be they a coalition or single party, are they representing the majority of society on this issue?
Myself, I suspect not.
(...But I could be wrong if a good poll was taken and I was rightly showed I was wrong)

The majority of people want the mess that FF created to be sorted out. They hope that it won't affect them personally too much but they realise that it will, that is the extent of the mess that FF created.

So they really don't like the idea of a property tax, but deep down that majority realise that every other country has a property tax so we have to have one too. They don't want to pay it but they also realise that the government has to raise taxes.

It is only the selfish, the greedy, whether that is now (or in the past when they overstretched themselves) that don't want to pay the tax.

Remember the low-paid single working person living in rented or council accommodation does not have to pay the tax. To pay the tax, you have to, at the very least, been able to save a deposit and persuade a bank to give you a mortgage. That is something that is beyond the poorest 10% in Irish society. Why shouldn't you pay for the privilege of being able to do so?

Manach

Because it divorces the government from having to cut their coat according to their cloth, and trying to buy electoral success by generous S/W and public sector spending.

Am Chile

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What do you mean by representing? Majority of people probably don't want a property tax, however majority of people want to pay as little tax as possible. In general I don't Fine Gael or Labour will lose any votes due to the property tax, I think most sane people agree it's a smart tax that is needed. I think the complete lack of support for the loony lefties who are trying to boycott this while plenty of people have signed up shows this. So does the fact that according to polls support for FG and Labour hasn't dropped significantly.

33.00 paying so far is nothing out of more then 1.6 millions houses to register and pay the tax, lack of support? you obviously know nothing about the large crowds that have being coming to anti household tax meetings around the country,or nothing about work on the ground with activitsts have done with stalls and members of the public signing up to the campaign to oppose and boycott the household tax.

Just take wexford alone,only 100 people have paid the Household Tax in Co.Wexford so far. The 2011 census revealed that there are 68,500 houses in the county.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/permalink.php?story_fbid=309627239081255&id=244762212234425

Am Chile

hallelujajordan wrote: »

A poll was taken by RedC for Paddypower and commented on last week which showed that 15% of people would not pay the household charge. . that would seem to indicate that a majority in society accept the need for a household charge even if they don't like it . .

And anyway, do we not need government to start thinking more about what society needs than what it wants. Isn't it years of giving society what it wanted in order to win votes what has us in this mess ? ?

Correct me if Im wrong, but wasn,it just a 1000 took part in this poll?

DoesNotCompute

Am Chile wrote: »

Correct me if Im wrong, but wasn,it just a 1000 took part in this poll?

You're right, the percentage of people who would not pay would probably be closer to 1.5% instead of 15% if the whole population were polled.

Biggins

The question should be raised in the Dail as to what percentage currently of the total applicable people, has actually paid so far!

I suspect that those that have not paid yet is far higher than the government would be it to be known!
...Thus they might be staying quiet of releasing such more up to date figures nationally with reason?

Ogham

Am Chile wrote: »

Correct me if Im wrong, but wasn,it just a 1000 took part in this poll?

That's the normal sample for a poll or survey.

RichardAnd

I wouldn't put low numbers of people paying this tax down to recalcitrance just yet. I'd say it's more a case of putting it off and the last week before the deadline could see a huge rise in payments. I'm reminded of that simpsons episode where Homer tries to pay his taxes on the last day possible. We'll see though.

oscarBravo

Biggins wrote: »

The question should be raised in the Dail as to what percentage currently of the total applicable people, has actually paid so far!

While we're at it, we could ask what percentage of self-assessed taxpayers have paid their taxes for 2011.

hallelujajordan

Am Chile wrote: »

33.00 paying so far is nothing out of more then 1.6 millions houses to register and pay the tax, lack of support? you obviously know nothing about the large crowds that have being coming to anti household tax meetings around the country,or nothing about work on the ground with activitsts have done with stalls and members of the public signing up to the campaign to oppose and boycott the household tax.

Just take wexford alone,only 100 people have paid the Household Tax in Co.Wexford so far. The 2011 census revealed that there are 68,500 houses in the county.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/permalink.php?story_fbid=309627239081255&id=244762212234425

It's hard to debate whether or not people agree with paying the household charge. The only data we have is the RedC poll that was carried out which indicated that only 15% would refuse to pay it . . In any case it is a moot point . . Biggins asked whether or not the government had majority support in bringing in this charge. I would contend that in this case, majority support is irrelevant. . It is important that the government take the actions necessary and not the actions that will make them popular.

Am Chile wrote: »

Correct me if Im wrong, but wasn,it just a 1000 took part in this poll?

Yes, a standard sample size for this kind of poll which produces a scientifically validated result.

Biggins wrote: »

The question should be raised in the Dail as to what percentage currently of the total applicable people, has actually paid so far!

I suspect that those that have not paid yet is far higher than the government would be it to be known!
...Thus they might be staying quiet of releasing such more up to date figures nationally with reason?

Why would you raise the question now ? I think the government would expect the vast majority of these payments to come in March (i.e. when payment falls due). I'm not sure why people would pay now when they don't have to pay until March . . I'm not opposed to this tax but I will certainly leave the money in my bank account for as long as I can.

Biggins

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Why would you raise the question now ? I think the government would expect the vast majority of these payments to come in March (i.e. when payment falls due). I'm not sure why people would pay now when they don't have to pay until March . . I'm not opposed to this tax but I will certainly leave the money in my bank account for as long as I can.

Just from a practical aspect, the question might be asked if only to gauge if payments are being made, constantly coming in at a rate that indicates a positive eventual outcome.
Constant questioning the speed/rate of incoming as collection process continues, will help show if incentives might have to be created to get people to pay up and/or there is something wrong also in the process.

Waiting until the final pay-up date come and is then gone might be good in some ways but in another aspect, it might be allowing a bundle of various collection problems to build up and only be seen/assessed after that date - and not an ongoing problem, being constantly addressed as the process is already ongoing.

Its just a thought.

Godge

Biggins wrote: »

Just from a practical aspect, the question might be asked if only to gauge if payments are being made, constantly coming in at a rate that indicates a positive eventual outcome.
Constant questioning the speed/rate of incoming as collection process continues, will help show if incentives might have to be created to get people to pay up and/or there is something wrong also in the process.

Waiting until the final pay-up date come and is then gone might be good in some ways but in another aspect, it might be allowing a bundle of various collection problems to build up and only be seen/assessed after that date - and not an ongoing problem, being constantly addressed as the process is already ongoing.

Its just a thought.

Why are there certain months when most of the tax from the self-employed comes in? Because most of them wait until the last minute before paying their tax. Why should this tax be any different?

Biggins

Godge wrote: »

Why are there certain months when most of the tax from the self-employed comes in? Because most of them wait until the last minute before paying their tax. Why should this tax be any different?

Personally not saying it shouldn't.
I'm just replying to a previous issue/point raised.

JustinDee

Am Chile wrote: »

Just take wexford alone,only 100 people have paid the Household Tax in Co.Wexford so far

100 people according to what?

Am Chile

RichardAnd wrote: »

I wouldn't put low numbers of people paying this tax down to recalcitrance just yet. I'd say it's more a case of putting it off and the last week before the deadline could see a huge rise in payments. I'm reminded of that simpsons episode where Homer tries to pay his taxes on the last day possible. We'll see though.

Or some people def won,t pay, and some other people won,t pay just as of yet cuz they re seeing what way the wind is blowing.

The Waltzing Consumer

Am Chile wrote: »

Or some people def won,t pay, and some other people won,t pay just as of yet cuz they re seeing what way the wind is blowing.

The people who definitely won't pay are the people who probably never had the pay in the first place and are exempt from this charge, but hey, they make the most noise as usual and have SWP and SP screaming bloody murder over it.

The people who have to pay, will pay in the majority of cases because that's what we do, we pay our way.

Godge

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

The people who definitely won't pay are the people who probably never had the pay in the first place and are exempt from this charge, but hey, they make the most noise as usual and have SWP and SP screaming bloody murder over it.

The people who have to pay, will pay in the majority of cases because that's what we do, we pay our way.

And the ones who go on any protest march will be those who never had to pay it anyway.

Biggins

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

The people who definitely won't pay are the people who probably never had the pay in the first place and are exempt from this charge, but hey, they make the most noise as usual and have SWP and SP screaming bloody murder over it...

Godge wrote: »

And the ones who go on any protest march will be those who never had to pay it anyway.

Speaking for my parents and a number of their friends, they are able to pay it, qualify to be charged of it - but they are refusing to pay.
...And they tell me they have friends that are doing the exact same thing (I trust my mother and father to tell me the truth on this matter, why should they lie!) - but the unproven generalisations above, I feel is far too general to be widely applied!
It's opinion you entitled to have but its one I disagree with. I suspect myself that there are many out there protesting that actually qualify for the charge too, not paying, and they are not equally running to the SWP and SP over it!

zumi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXIIieaQf-w

meglome

zumi wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXIIieaQf-w

Can you summarise just how we pay for services if we don't collect this money?

southsiderosie

zumi wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXIIieaQf-w

MOD NOTE:

Please do not post video links in this forum without some kind of explanation of the content (and your opinion on the content). Not everyone can watch videos from where they are reading the thread.

CricketDude

There is an easier way to collect money from property than taxing people who bought their homes.
Every tax paying renter in the country can claim back about €400 per year from their tax, for rent paid. Cancel this. Also cancel mortgage interest relief for people who own their own homes. Why should you get tax relief on accommodation.
So doing the above revenue will make much, much more from property, without having to collect a penny. They just take away the tax reliefs and thats all there is to it.

psychward

CricketDude wrote: »

There is an easier way to collect money from property than taxing people who bought their homes.
Every tax paying renter in the country can claim back about €400 per year from their tax, for rent paid. Cancel this. Also cancel mortgage interest relief for people who own their own homes. Why should you get tax relief on accommodation.
So doing the above revenue will make much, much more from property, without having to collect a penny. They just take away the tax reliefs and thats all there is to it.

They could also take away rent allowance which is creating a false market paid for out of the earnings of productive people.