Jonny7 wrote: » Any experts here on this? If a US carrier were in the straits (Hormez) during the outbreak of a conflict in the region involving Iran - would the Iranians with their current capabilities be able to sink it? If they were able to sink or severely damage - what would their most effective weapon be? anti-ship missiles, small fast craft, etc? cheers
tac foley wrote: » If the Mr Amabinlinerjab and his forces tried to sink an American ship, you'd be able to stand outside the Ormond in Greystones and see Tehran as a glow in the night sky. tac
Manic Moran wrote: » Submarine laying mines would be the best bet, if I were the Iranians. NTM
johngalway wrote: » I don't suppose there's such a thing as a nuclear sea mine? Or does the fact of a nuclear weapon being underwater render it, not useless, but a waste of a nuclear device?
archer22 wrote: » Yes they could sink a Carrier..they have Sunburn anti ship missile..this is Russian design travels at Mach 2.2 and takes evasive action in flight making it very difficult and maybe impossible to defend against.It can be launched from mobile launch pads on land,from gunboats aircraft or submarines.It is estimated that 5 of those missiles would be required to sink an Aircraft carrier.They are precise enough to take a carrier apart section by section.Iran may have other new generation missiles such as the Chinese Dong Feng 21D ballistic anti ship missile speed Mach 10 :eek: although its unlikely Iran has this..but who knows China keeps its military sales very secret.Anyhow if I was on an American Aircraft carrier in the Gulf at war with Iran..I would not sleep well.BTW it was an Iranian old generation C802 missile that Hezbollah used to cripple the Israeli corvette of the coast of Lebanon in 2006 and dont believe the Israeli BS that the corvette had its anti Missiles defences turned off...the missile got through but was slightly deflected which is why the ship survived being sunk there and then.
twinytwo wrote: » The newest aircraft carrier the us had was something like over 6 billion dollars, you dont spend that amount of money on somthing unless it is very very hard to destory. It will be interesting to see the ford class carriers once they come online.
Geekness1234 wrote: » First of all,it wouldn't need to be in the straits at all. A Carrier Battle Group (CBG) has the ability for its aircraft to carry out combat operations with a combat radius of 500 nautical miles (926 KM),depending on mission loading.
The location of a carrier is a VERY well kept secret with only a few privy to that knowledge.
That would be one of the requirements for a sustained Iranian attack.
Air strikes are ruled out completely due to the E-2C hawk eye's early warning systems.
But,if you combine the capabilities of the Carrier air wing, Saudi Arabian air force,Bahrain,Oman as well as U.S. Army short range missiles you can destroy ports,depots etc and harass Iranian forces enough to make attacking hard.
Delancey wrote: » Take for example the USS Oriskany ... took almost 30 minutes to sink.
Using a nuclear tipped weapon is an entirely different matter............
tac foley wrote: » If the Mr Amabinlinerjab and his forces tried to sink an American ship, you'd be able to stand outside the Ormond in Greystones and see Tehran as a glow in the night sky.
Jonny7 wrote: » Hypothetically if the Iranians concentrated everything on taking out the carrier, which method would (relatively) be the most effective? (their new anti-ship missiles?)
In case of an Israeli pre-emptive strike similar to the attack on the Osirak reactor in Iraq what kind of damage could Iranian forces inflict on US naval or Israeli airforce in such a hypothetical situation..
Basically, can Iran realistically inflict military damage on the US or Israel in the region?
archer22 wrote: » Yes they could sink a Carrier..they have Sunburn anti ship missile..this is Russian design travels at Mach 2.2 and takes evasive action in flight making it very difficult and maybe impossible to defend against.It can be launched from mobile launch pads on land,from gunboats aircraft or submarines.It is estimated that 5 of those missiles would be required to sink an Aircraft carrier.
They are precise enough to take a carrier apart section by section.
Iran may have other new generation missiles such as the Chinese Dong Feng 21D ballistic anti ship missile speed Mach 10 :eek: although its unlikely Iran has this..but who knows China keeps its military sales very secret.
Anyhow if I was on an American Aircraft carrier in the Gulf at war with Iran..I would not sleep well.BTW it was an Iranian old generation C802 missile that Hezbollah used to cripple the Israeli corvette of the coast of Lebanon in 2006 and dont believe the Israeli BS that the corvette had its anti Missiles defences turned off...the missile got through but was slightly deflected which is why the ship survived being sunk there and then.
archer22 wrote: » Yes but advances in Missile technology by Russia and China was unforseen and have taken everybody by surprise.Some experts think that aircraft carriers will soon (if not already) be obsolete and a liabilty in war against advanced Nations.
It is interesting to note that China is not very enthusiastic about building Aircraft Carriers other than having a few basic ones.They currently dont seem to think Carriers are worth wasting a fortune on.Looks like the carriers day is coming to an end.
archer22 wrote: » Yes but advances in Missile technology by Russia and China was unforseen and have taken everybody by surprise.Some experts think that aircraft carriers will soon (if not already) be obsolete and a liabilty in war against advanced Nations.It is interesting to note that China is not very enthusiastic about building Aircraft Carriers other than having a few basic ones.They currently dont seem to think Carriers are worth wasting a fortune on.Looks like the carriers day is coming to an end.
Jonny7 wrote: » Is there any answer to the latest sunburn anti-ship missiles? Besides taking out the launcher of course.
twinytwo wrote: » The carrier will be around for the forseeable future, they allow a projection of force anywhere on the planet, America is just one of the few countries that can actually afford to build/run them. In terms of waging "war" it is an invaluable tool
Is there any answer to the latest sunburn anti-ship missiles?
Manic Moran wrote: » Aegis, RIM-116 and Mk15. Sunburn isn't new, the US Navy has been testing against supersonic drones for quite some time, to include Kh.31 missiles bought from Russia. Sunburn is replicated in exercises by the GQM-163A "Coyote", which pulls 11g maneuvers at Mach 2.5 and about 45 feet above the surface. And it's a smaller target than Sunburn. NTM
archer22 wrote: » They have still never shot down a Sunburn..
and even if they could manage to shoot a few single missiles there is still the issue of a mass launch of the missiles.
The Israeli corvette hit by the C802 off Lebanon had state of the art missile defences and failed to stop that older generation missile.
Anyhow there is no proof that a Sunburn can be shot down only a hope that it can.
twinytwo wrote: » The carrier will be around for the forseeable future, they allow a projection of force anywhere on the planet,
archer22 wrote: » None as far as I know..certainly none that are proven. The missiles high speed and erratic flight will make it incredibly difficult to stop
and given that the Dong Feng has now appeared,Future is not looking too good at the moment for American naval dominance.
Manic Moran wrote: » Aegis, RIM-116 and Mk15.
delly wrote: » How about another take on it, how close would an Iranian civil airline get before the US took it out? Iran Air Flight 655 having happened before would they would have to be 110% sure of its intent, but I assume they could leave it to the last minute to destroy the plane yet still ensure it didn't end up on the flightdeck.
archer22 wrote: » and even if they could manage to shoot a few single missiles there is still the issue of a mass launch of the missiles.
skelliser wrote: » Remember the USS Cole? your forgetting that there would be many willing volunteers in Iran for a suicide mission on a small speedboat filled to the rafters with plastic explosive. I must however point out that Iranians arent as fundamental as there made out to be and have never been involved in suicide bombing.
In fact They arent even arabs,
This imo would be the threat most feared by the US Navy.
Anyways even if they did manage a suicide run the damage would be limited. But the PR and images would result in a victory of sorts.
Manic Moran wrote: » And Sunburn has never sunk a live target. True, but again, look back at what Aegis was designed to stop in the first place. Having the toggle switch of the defences set to 'off' probably will fail to stop an older missile no matter how advanced those defences are. That was simple human foolishness, not a technological issue. If Sunburn is a Mach 2+ missile capable at flying a few meters above the sea whilst maneuvering evasively, and Coyote is a Mach 2+ missile capable at flying a few meters above the sea whilst maneuvering evasively which was specifically designed to replicate Sunburn, there is a very good chance that if you can shoot down Coyote, you can shoot down Sunburn. NTM
archer22 wrote: » I doubt very much that the Israeli corvette had its defences "turned off" in a war zone,most experts believe the way the missile hit suggests it was partly deflected.
However easier for Israel to say it was human error than admit it was a systems failure.
And remember many of Saddams scuds got through Israels patriot defences and hit Tel Aviv and also I remember one getting though and hitting American soldiers in Kuwait I think.The Scud should be a relatively easy missile to stop compared to a much smaller low flying faster ASM.
In spite of all the hype anti missile defences are not as effective as often claimed.
skelliser wrote: » I must however point out that Iranians arent as fundamental as there made out to be and have never been involved in suicide bombing.
Cardinal Richelieu wrote: » Mines,Mines, mines and more mines. Even if the carrier fleet is nowhere near the Persian Gulf the havoc caused by drifting mines in a busy shipping lane should give the US government a headache.
Victor wrote: » And that's what AEGIS ships are for. What they can't shoot down, they and other ships will absorb to protect the carrier.