nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Irish Independent Investigation Reveals!

diamondtooth

Front page news of Saturday (15th Jan) Irish Independent reveals that an investigation has found that our Taoiseach Enda Kenny owns:

An apartment in Dublin (imagine he has somewhere to live in the Capital)
A house in Mayo (imagine he has a house where he is from)
An office in Mayo
And a field at his parents house in Mayo

How the f*ck is this front page news :eek:
After all the crap Bertie Aherne got away with, who cares if Enda Kenny owns a bloody field. Have we such short term memories, that now its suddenly front page news that our Taoiseach owns a field in Mayo that we didn't all know about.

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

Biggins

Einhard wrote: »

And who judges whether they are in conflict if they don't have to publish such information. I have to say I'm surprised Biggins. I had imagined that you would be calling for full transparency when it comes to public representatives and their interests outside politics.

O' I do.
...But does the press have to know about every bit of land that a family might have been left to them?
For example - and this is ONLY an example - what if Enda or someone got that land by marriage?
Will a paper with its on ageanda mention this or just state "He owns it!"
Now on first impressions some might read the paper and think "O' he might be loaded and getting money from somewhere we don't know about!"
Such thinking could adversely effect a good person, into one of poor (and possibly wrong) light.

There is already a department that lists records of such things where TD's shave already informed/listed their business interests, etc.
(Now if the persons involved have been totally honest - thats another thing! THAT should be exposed if they lied or its clear they withheld such data!)
See here for example for some basic stuff that can be found out by the public alone: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CNq4xtwH&key=0ArtXDGF50fODdFpKMXk1VHE0VFVlcmhYUFlfQmpsX2c&hl=en&authkey=CNq4xtwH#gid=0

The idea of the legislation is to promote transparency amongst our public representatives, a concept which was sorely lacking until recently, and which, from the article, seems to be somewhat lacking even today.

And yet people seem ok with it simply because they want to have a go at the Irish Independent. Strikes me as odd.

Personally speaking, the piece could be badly written and can be construed wrong in its aim.

This isn't Mexico Biggins. We don't exactly have abduction gangs roaming the streets, and if we did, it's fairly easy to identify who has money and who doesn't. Further, abducting sitting members of parliament would be a very bad idea for any criminal gang.

Your right - and thankfully so.
Lord knows, I would hated to have to kidnapp Jackie Healy Rea.
Feeding him which being captured would be a nightmare in itself!

Zebra3

Biggins,

Regardless of how Kenny or any other TD came about any assets, they should be declared so the public (and journos) can see that the country is being run in a transparent manner.

If Kenny or anyone other politican doesn't like it, they can leave politics and due to their huge talents, no doubt get an equally well paid job in the private sector.*

We've already seen Kenny break the rules to ensure his mate got a well piad handy number that we have to foot the bill for. :mad::mad::mad:

* :rolleyes:

Einhard

Biggins wrote: »

O' I do.
...But does the press have to know about every bit of land that a family might have been left to them?
For example - and this is ONLY an example - what if Enda or someone got that land by marriage?
Will a paper with its on ageanda mention this or just state "He owns it!"
Now on first impressions some might read the paper and think "O' he might be loaded and getting money from somewhere we don't know about!"
Such thinking could adversely effect a good person, into one of poor (and possibly wrong) light.

If their interests aren't declared to the public, then how can it be known how they got their property- whether it was legitimate (as I've no doubt is the case with Kenny), or the procedds of graft (as, say, with Haughey and his ilk). If politicians have nothing to hide then they have nothing to hide and should publish their interests, as we were led to believe was the purpose of the legislation.

If anything, the Indo has done some service today by highlighting this anomoly. And yet it's criticised and condemned. I know that it's fashionable in these parts to have a go at that paper, but this strikes me as absurd.

Liam Byrne

Zebra3 wrote: »

diamondtooth wrote: »

Its hardly an accident if the public voted for him.

Morons in Mayo voted for him to be a TD.

FG and Labour TDs elected him as taoiseach.

Hardly their fault that the standard required for the past 15 years was so low, now was it?

I'm beginning to severely dislike Kenny, but compared to the 2 most recent Taoisigh he's absolutely brilliant!

Biggins

Zebra3 wrote: »

Biggins,

Regardless of how Kenny or any other TD came about any assets, they should be declared so the public (and journos) can see that the country is being run in a transparent manner.

If Kenny or anyone other politican doesn't like it, they can leave politics and due to their huge talents, no doubt get an equally well paid job in the private sector.*

We've already seen Kenny break the rules to ensure his mate got a well piad handy number that we have to foot the bill for. :mad::mad::mad:

* :rolleyes:

Again, I agree.
Kenny alone has done many things questionable.
Don't get me wrong. I DO believe in FULL and honest transparency.
I do feel myself that not EVERYthing should be made for public consumption.
If there is an independent body which knows about such things and/or is able to further investigate such things if they have their own suspicions, I do (personally) feel that the right of an individual to a modicum of privacy should not dismissed either.
I'm not arguing against transparency, I'm just also playing devils advocate and also mentioning the rights of the individual to some privacy too - lest certain part so the media might jump on such things and additionally spin them wrongly for example to pursue their own agenda.
...And I'm not just talking about this Indo article when I say the last bit.

Short version: a delicate balance might have to be struck?

If their interests aren't declared to the public, then how can it be known how they got their property- whether it was legitimate (as I've no doubt is the case with Kenny), or the procedds of graft (as, say, with Haughey and his ilk).

Well there are ways already to find out what the interests are of a TD, they, the public might be interested in.
TD's already do have to state what their business interests are in - they just don't do the equivalent of sticking an advert in a paper.

If politicians have nothing to hide then they have nothing to hide and should publish their interests...

No argument there.

If anything, the Indo has done some service today by highlighting this anomoly. And yet it's criticised and condemned. I know that it's fashionable in these parts to have a go at that paper, but this strikes me as absurd.

You could be right but others here are also judging the article based on the prior reputation of the Indo' - and it ain't good with a lot of people.
The Indo's prior stuff and attitude/assumed agenda direction might be just coming back to haunt them?
They partly reaping previously what they sowed?

Shay Vader

It's not as if he owns a mansion in Kinsealy with 40 acres of land and a wardrobe full Italian shirts and ties.I'm gonna go out on a limb and say (deep breath) he 's doing a good job. The Indo has been a rag for the guts of ten years thanks to dodgy reporting on Iraq, FF TD's and their secretaries/translators etc etc.

Einhard

Biggins wrote: »

TD's already do have to state what their business interests are in - they just don't to the equivalent of sticking an advert in a paper.

The point is, they don't. That's what the article has exposed, and which people are condemning it for.

Biggins

Einhard wrote: »

The point is, they don't. That's what the article has exposed, and which people are condemning it for.

Should they stick everything in a paper?
Which one? All of them or just one?
To do so could be quite costly?

Apologies if I come across as argumentative - I'm JUST playing (again) devils advocate here.

Your making good points!

Einhard

Biggins wrote: »

Should they stick everything in a paper?
Which one? All of them or just one?
To do so could be quite costly?

Apologies if I come across as argumentative - I'm JUST playing (again) devils advocate here.

Your making good points!

They don't have to stick them in the paper. They simply have to declare their assets and interests on the Register of Members' Interests. Except, according to the article, there's an awful lot that they don't actually have to declare. The Indo did a service in pointing this anomoly out. And yet they're being condemned for it.

Biggins

Einhard wrote: »

They don't have to stick them in the paper. They simply have to declare their assets and interests on the Register of Members' Interests. Except, according to the article, there's an awful lot that they don't actually have to declare. The Indo did a service in pointing this anomoly out. And yet they're being condemned for it.

Your right in that such things should be declared in the right way and to the appropriate place.

I haven't seen the full article so don't know its full wording yet but you mention that "...there's an awful lot that they don't actually have to declare."
Again you could be right in that its an area that might need to be looked at.

People though (I suspect) feel the Indo' lines itself up sometimes for some criticism and doubt of their intentions, given some of its previous pro FF stances and just finding possible any excuse (under the guise of "doing the right thing") to just knock any political opposition?

Its just a question...

Spread

It deflects the merde from Bev 'Necklikeajockeysbollox' Flynn. A Taoiseach and President from the Wesht? Simultaneously? Seriously? It's no longer asleep. Yay!

Zebra3

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I'm beginning to severely dislike Kenny, but compared to the 2 most recent Taoisigh he's absolutely brilliant!

Shay Vader wrote: »

It's not as if he owns a mansion in Kinsealy with 40 acres of land and a wardrobe full Italian shirts and ties.I'm gonna go out on a limb and say (deep breath) he 's doing a good job.

Are you two serious?

He's continuing with the failed policies of FF, ensuring those at the bottom of society take the hit for the gambling losses of the elite, and all the while ensured the gravy train keeps running for the politicans and their mates.

syklops

Zebra3 wrote: »

Are you two serious?

He's continuing with the failed policies of FF, ensuring those at the bottom of society take the hit for the gambling losses of the elite, and all the while ensured the gravy train keeps running for the politicans and their mates.

What do you suggest?

[Deleted User]

OP needs to cry more.

Biggins

By the way, here is another recent Indo piece where in this article they do possibly raise the question "where is our money going to?"

See: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/senators-in-storm-over-23000-leader-perk-2988053.html

..But then at the end of the article they eventually finish up with FF getting the last dig in?
I DON'T question FF and their right to ask these questions - just by coincidence, once again the Indo is just siding with anything possibly currently anti-FG or others but FF ?

later12

mikemac1 wrote: »

Well back in the nineties it was

I don't know what caused it to change

I'm not quite sure that it became less 'Indo' than that we became more 'Irish Times'.

Some would say that up until recently, Irish society was happy to swallow naval gazing, inbred, nationalistic philosophy on a pretty widespread basis. In fact, I would argue it is ongoing in some quarters.

Liam Byrne

Biggins wrote: »

By the way, here is another recent Indo piece where in this article they do possibly raise the question "where is our money going to?"

See: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/senators-in-storm-over-23000-leader-perk-2988053.html

..But then at the end of the article they eventually finish up with FF getting the last dig in?
I DON'T question FF and their right to ask these questions - just by coincidence, once again the Indo is just siding with anything possibly currently anti-FF ?

Do you mean anti-FG ?

Biggins

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Do you mean anti-FG ?

Cheers - my error corrected.

Liam Byrne

Sean Fleming, Fianna Fail's public spending spokesman, questioned the payments at yesterday's Dail Public Accounts Committee (PAC) hearing and said they had to reformed.
"These payments are unvouched, untaxed," the Laois-Offaly TD said. "These payments should be vouched, independently audited and lodged with the SIPO. We need to ensure politics is open and transparent."

This is the exact reason why FF have no credibility - they were in power for years, did nothing about these things, actively encouraged, condoned, facilitated and excused every dodgy and unwarranted payment under the sun (whether out of our pockets to Callely or out of unknown pockets to Ahern) and NOW they pretend that they're in favour of having them fixed, using it just to score a cheap political shot rather than any drive to improve the country.

We need to get rid of all aspects of this "love of the game of politics" and get some decent people in with an interest in getting things fixed.

Biggins

Liam Byrne wrote: »

This is the exact reason why FF have no credibility - they were in power for years, did nothing about these things, actively encouraged, condoned, facilitated and excused every dodgy and unwarranted payment under the sun (whether out of our pockets to Callely or out of unknown pockets to Ahern) and NOW they pretend that they're in favour of having them fixed, using it just to score a cheap political shot rather than any drive to improve the country.

We need to get rid of all aspects of this "love of the game of politics" and get some decent people in with an interest in getting things fixed.

I read the article and then wondered (honestly)...

In the previous years, whom was it anyway that introduce such payments?
Given that out of 26+ years of government, 23+ was FF, the odds are against them that they can't say "Well we didn't bring these payments in in the first place" - or - as Liam says, why didn't they, while they were in power for all those long years actually do anything about such issues - after all, they had long enough to do it!

later12

Biggins wrote: »

I read the article and then wondered (honestly)...

In the previous years, whom was it anyway that introduce such payments?
Given that out of 26+ years of government, 23+ was FF, the odds are against them that they can't say "Well we didn't bring these payments in in the first place" - or - as Liam says, why didn't they, while they were in power for all those long years actually do anything about such issues - after all, they had long enough to do it!

In fairness, Sean Fleming has only been elected since 1997, and most of his current parliamentary colleagues were, as he was, 'irrelevant' backbenchers.

I think that Fleming, like most of his party,have a highly dishonourable parliamentary record behind them. However I think he was quite right in his description of the 'leader's allowance' payment, whatever his motives.

LighterGuy

diamondtooth wrote: »

An apartment in Dublin (imagine he has somewhere to live in the Capital)
A house in Mayo (imagine he has a house where he is from)
An office in Mayo
And a field at his parents house in Mayo

How the f*ck is this front page news :eek:
After all the crap Bertie Aherne got away with, who cares if Enda Kenny owns a bloody field. Have we such short term memories, that now its suddenly front page news that our Taoiseach owns a field in Mayo that we didn't all know about.

Cause Ireland has turned into a nation of moaners and begrudgers now and the papers know it.
Everyone knew what Bertie was up to. Yet there wasnt a public outcry. Sure he got re-elected!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

Yet now, times be different. People lost their jobs and recession. Now its all about what someone else has got :rolleyes:
Because when bertie was in people were happy earning their own money. Change the times and see the real people come out.

later12

LighterGuy wrote: »

Everyone knew what Bertie was up to.

I totally disagree.

I was pretty much an idiot when I was 17, as most 17 year olds are, but I did read the newspapers and I did listen in history class, and I don't remember any mention of bertie being crooked until at least about 2006.

I don't believe that history will be particularly kind to the generation who were adults between 2000 - 2008. Make of that what you will. But it doesn't mean that everyone knew about Bertie.

Zebra3

syklops wrote: »

What do you suggest?

Stop giving our money away to gambling losers, stop nepotism (like Kenny handing his mate a huge salary for a poxy made up job), and to tax all former public servants' pensions at 100% until they reach the age of 65 with huge taxes on those over that age with bloated pensions.

For starters.