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Dublin City Council - Bin Collection Privatised/Greyhound Megathread

Ernest

I hear on the radio this morning that Dublin City Council have abandoned their household bin collection and outsourced it to Greyhound (I think they do green bin collection already) Who decided this and why? I did not see any discussion about it anywhere. What happens to the existing Dublin City Council Staff who were employed in this task up to now? Are they all just made redundant? It cannot be called redundancy, surely, if an employer decides to outsource an existing activity which is not itself discontinued.
Also the radio report stated that Greyhound would not entertain any more claims for waivers of waste collection charges and would only honour existing waivers for one year!! Surely that is not a decision to be taken by a private outsource company but is part of national policy. Dublin City Council are presumably the statutory body responsible for waste collection and for the implementation of national policy on charges and waivers. Isn't it time for the City Manager's office to make a public statement on the whole affair. As for the elected council members - what have they been doing here??? Have they approved all of this??

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supergunner

I have an outstanding balance with DCC . Does anyone know if Greyhound will be taking DCC`s bad debts with them?

admiralofthefleet

Dirk Gently wrote: »

I'd well imagine. council out of the way now and they have a ready made monopoly. so few companies can realisticly tender for the patch too so very easy to maintain artificially high prices between the 2 or 3 companies. It's a licence to print money. It's not like you can go to a competitor if you run into trouble with the service.

one of the things he was saying is that the ironic thing about it is that the green bin collection is meant to be for the environment yet there could be a situation where bin lorries form 4 or more different collection companies could be going up the same street.
hardly helping the carbon footprint

Dirk Gently

lensman wrote: »

I could be wrong but I thought I read in this mornings indo that DCC customers could also switch to any waste company,..don't have the paper here to check,..don't like the idea of being used as a commodity to sell on to a private company,..I think we are entitled to now pick who we want to collect our bins,

doesn't work like that unfortunately. It's not feasible to have company x collect your bin, company y your neighbours bin and company z the next guys bin. trucks would be driving all over the city to collect individual bins. It wont happen for cost and logistical reasons. They're not going to collect 100 bins in ballymun, 200 in clontarf and 300 in sandymount. They'd be driving around 24/7 doing that with no stability to allow them to increase their fleet. A month down the road they could have doube or half the amount of customers but with a blanket catchment area they can build a fleet to work the area as efficiently as possible.

The smallest catchment I could see feasibly working and providing competition would be whole estates choosing their prefered provider, maybe via residents association or something like that. That would require a lot more smaller licenced contractors than there currently is though. No company is going to come out and collect the odd one or two bins per street. Administritive costs would rise though the more the city was compartmented off estate by estate with just a few players in the market. I'm afraid we're just going to be stuck with a monopoly free to raise prices at will for the foreseeable future.

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

one of the things he was saying is that the ironic thing about it is that the green bin collection is meant to be for the environment yet there could be a situation where bin lorries form 4 or more different collection companies could be going up the same street.
hardly helping the carbon footprint

can't see that happening unless the companies are subcontracted out by greyhound seen as they hold the city contract. The green bin is the raw materials part of the business (hence why its free to collect), the grey bin is literally just waste.

lensman

Edit

Dirk Gently wrote: »

doesn't work like that unfortunately. It's not feasible to have company x collect your bin, company y your neighbours bin and company z the next guys bin. trucks would be driving all over the city to collect individual bins.

My son lives in an estate in Kinnegad & they have a choice of waste company's, all they need to do is buy the specific bin tag for whichever company they want to lift their bin on any given week.

Dodge

Dirk Gently wrote: »

doesn't work like that unfortunately. It's not feasible to have company x collect your bin, company y your neighbours bin and company z the next guys bin

Thats EXACTLY what happens in many estates in the SDCC area. In many parts of Tallaght Greyhound, Access and Thortons all collect from the same street (same days too).

Access don't service all of SDCC's area though (most of Clondalkin for example).

bob11

supergunner wrote: »

I have an outstanding balance with DCC . Does anyone know if Greyhound will be taking DCC`s bad debts with them?

Got my letter this morning from Greyhound.
They will be collecting any outstanding arrears on behalf of the City Council,

Annual Service Charge is 100 Euros. They have sent a Greyhound Electronic Card that can be used to top up your credit at post office, using payzone or online. Must have credit in account to get bins lifted.

Black Bin 6 Euros, Grey Bin 2 Euros, Green Bin No charge, (Fees for first 6 months) but will need tag on bin which will be sent out when annual fee has been paid.

They start from 16th January.

My Bin day has changed from Tues to Mon for all Bins ..

lensman

So DCC acted like corporate pimps, sold us to the highest bidder & we have no say in the matter :mad:

Dodge

BTW has anyone heard what happens those who don't currently sue bins (but use tags?).

lensman

bob11 wrote: »

Got my letter this morning from Greyhound.
They will be collecting any outstanding arrears on behalf of the City Council,

Annual Service Charge is 100 Euros. They have sent a Greyhound Electronic Card that can be used to top up your credit at post office, using payzone or online. Must have credit in account to get bins lifted.

Black Bin 6 Euros, Grey Bin 2 Euros, Green Bin No charge, (Fees for first 6 months) but will need tag on bin which will be sent out when annual fee has been paid.

They start from 16th January.

My Bin day has changed from Tues to Mon for all Bins ..

Greyhounds current pricing for existing customers is-- annual charge €60 & 31cent per kilo for the grey bin, greyhound say they'll keep the current DCC pricing structure for 6 months,..based on geryhounds pay by weight system my grey bin @ 30kg will cost €9.30 & @ 40kg will cost me €12.40 per lift,..will they reduce their annual charge from €100 to €60 ?...it will be interesting to see what the do in 6 months.

Dirk Gently

Dodge wrote: »

Thats EXACTLY what happens in many estates in the SDCC area. In many parts of Tallaght Greyhound, Access and Thortons all collect from the same street (same days too).

Access don't service all of SDCC's area though (most of Clondalkin for example).

How soon after privatisation did that happen. DCC looks like they sold it lock stock and barrel to greyhound. I remember a few years ago ringing around and all the private companies told me they could only come out if they got a patch in my area, i.e a bulk of houses to collect from all together.

Rob Nulty

supergunner wrote: »

I have an outstanding balance with DCC . Does anyone know if Greyhound will be taking DCC`s bad debts with them?

No, they wont.

Dodge

Dirk Gently wrote: »

How soon after privatisation did that happen. DCC looks like they sold it lock stock and barrel to greyhound. I remember a few years ago ringing around and all the private companies told me they could only come out if they got a patch in my area, i.e a bulk of houses to collect from all together.

It happened before Greyhound took over from SDCC. A friend was the only person in our estate with Thorntons for a couple of weeks

A lot of people stayed with greyhound as it continued on from SDCC, but once the annual charge came in, the vast majority looked at their options. I expect that to be the same in DCC's area. If the above psoted is right and you're being asked to pay €100 up front, and Thorntons is, say, €50/€60 then people will change.

I wonder if the Gryehound contract means they can't refuse any area?

davidschoolbag

So this is a service right and now its private and its my waste...... If no one pays up front then they woudl have to change their operation.

But a more pertinant question. When the houshold charge is paid what is it for, not for rubbish collection thats for sure? They say local services but will all of the monies raised in say Cork go to Cork and Wexford to wexford and so on or more likely into the gift of a minister to disperse to buy votes.

Dodge

The household charge is there to plug huge gaping wholes in the state's coffers. You can be as precious about it as you like, but we all know it a tax. There's no point, in this thread, arguing about whether its a just or fair tax IMO

davidschoolbag

I agree about the fairness of it. I am getting to the who spends rather than who collects ie who controls it issue. If its local councilors that local people elect thats one thing if its a goverment minister thats a differnt thing completly.

bob11

Dodge wrote: »

It happened before Greyhound took over from SDCC. A friend was the only person in our estate with Thorntons for a couple of weeks

A lot of people stayed with greyhound as it continued on from SDCC, but once the annual charge came in, the vast majority looked at their options. I expect that to be the same in DCC's area. If the above psoted is right and you're being asked to pay €100 up front, and Thorntons is, say, €50/€60 then people will change.

I wonder if the Gryehound contract means they can't refuse any area?

I see that Thornton's annual charge is only 50 Euros, But lift charges are 7.50 for grey and 4.20 for brown .... Could be an option for many people ..
http://www.thorntons-recycling.ie/domestic-dublin-sign-up .

Citybin might be an option for some people as well only limited availabilty at the moment : 48 Euros annual fee, 7 for grey and 4 for brown ...
http://www.citybin.com/cms/index.php?page=Household-SouthDublin

sambuka41

Great, I'm renting and my lease is up in March. So I will be paying €100/€60 (which ever it is) for the next tenants bins collections, then no doubt I'll have to pay it again in the next place I move to :mad::mad::mad:

Why can't the do it on a bill system, I've been in this house for 2 years and I've only paid the bill for the lift, I don't remember an annual charge to be paid in one go?? Maybe I repressed it.

Sir Oxman

Dodge wrote: »

BTW has anyone heard what happens those who don't currently sue bins (but use tags?).

Same here, no bins just bag tags.
All i could find on the dublincity.ie site was that Greyhound will be collecting the bags and DCC tags will be okay to 16th March. After that, it'll be greyhound tags.

I've never been asked for an annual charge and don't have a waiver.
I am assuming (probably wrong)n that bags don't carry an annual charge?

HeidiHeidi

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I wonder what the story will be for those of us who don't have wheelie bins, and put out tagged bags? Works out an awful lot cheaper, I think - and I also have a stash of bag labels bought in advance, wonder if they'll be redundant?

Must say I don't like the smell of this at all (pun intended) :mad:

Just spoke to someone in Greyhound about this. She didn't sound at all convinced of what she was saying, so I wouldn't take it as gospel, but here's what she said....

Those currently without wheelies bins who put out tagged bags will continue to do so. There are no plans to make us get bins.

There will be no yearly fee - we will continue to buy tags and use them only.

Tags will remain at the prices charged by DCC (she REALLY didn't sound sure about that one, but was insistent).

DCC tags can continue to be used until 16th March 2012, after that you have to buy/use Greyhound tags.

Good news, if it's all true

Dodge

Thanks for the update heidi, father-in-law mightn't have a heart attack so.

Dirk Gently

city bin and thorntons appear only to service the former south council area and not the dub city council area. Am I right in thinking greyhound have an exclusive contract?

Dodge

Dirk Gently wrote: »

city bin and thorntons appear only to service the former south council area and not the dub city council area. Am I right in thinking greyhound have an exclusive contract?

Thorntons definitely serve Ballyfermot, which is in DCC, so no.

Ernest

" Dublin City Council and Greyhound Recycling and Recovery have reached agreement on the sale of the Council’s commercial and domestic waste collection business to Greyhound Recycling and Recovery. "

Since when did Dublin City Council get approval to regard their domestic waste collection SERVICE as a BUSINESS to be sold to anybody?? What next: their Fire Extinguishing BUSINESS or their Parks Maintenance BUSINESS???
Where are the elected city councillors in all of this? Did they approve of this move? The relevant Minister is Phil Hogan of Fine Gael. Does he approve? Does the City Council have authority to SELL bits of their areas of public responsibility like this - is it even LEGAL for a local authority to abdicate its public duties and SELL bits of its activities to a private profit-making company like Greyhound or anybody else? Furthermore this private company seems to believe itself able to change the tariffs and terms of service including changing waivers for the less well off, changing payment terms from invoiced to pre-payment and from per-lift to per-weight or whatever takes their fancy!. And what about the Dublin City Council binmen? Are they to be put of of work? Again I ask where were the elected city councillors in all of this. If they have no power to protest or no interest in the matter why are they even worth electing?

admiralofthefleet

Dirk Gently wrote: »

can't see that happening unless the companies are subcontracted out by greyhound seen as they hold the city contract. The green bin is the raw materials part of the business (hence why its free to collect), the grey bin is literally just waste.

the collection isnt exclusive to greayhound, afaik. the customer can use any collection company that they wish
im open to correction on this

Dirk Gently

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

the collection isnt exclusive to greayhound, afaik. the customer can use any collection company that they wish
im open to correction on this

I've had confirmation from both thorntons and city bin that thy don't service my area and have no plans in the forseeable future to do so. Not sure if thats their own decision or if they are prevented from coming into the area because greyhound have taken over from dcc, either way I'm left with just greyhound. If it is open to competition then what does the deal between dcc and greyhound involve?

edit: Anyone from Fingal want to comment on their service. Panda say they have the contract for the whole of fingal after a tender process. Is there any competition in Fingal like there seems to be southside?

admiralofthefleet

greyhound are now lifting customers bins that were with DCC, its up to the customer however if they choose to stay with greyhound. there is a few different companies covering dublin, off the top of my head -

thorntons
access
panda
greyhound

notonemorecent

FAQs regarding the Transfer of Dublin City Council Waste Collection Service to Greyhound Recycling

1. Q. Dublin City Council currently collects my domestic waste. Who will be taking over my waste collection service?

A. Greyhound Recycling and Recovery will collect your household waste from the 16th January 2012.

2. Q. When will the service transfer to Greyhound Recycling and Recovery?
A. Dublin City Council will officially transfer its waste collection business to Greyhound Recycling and Recovery on Monday, 16th January 2012.

3. Q. Will there be any change to the annual service charge?

A. The current Annual Service Charge will be maintained for 2012. You are required to pay the Annual Service Charge, in full, within 30 days from Monday 16th January. Greyhound Recycling and Recovery will not collect bins from households who have not paid the Annual Service Charge within the 30 days. The current annual service charge is as follows:

240 litre Black Bin - €100
140 litre Black Bin - €80

4. Q. Will there be any change to the lift charges?

A. The current charge for each black and brown bin lift will be maintained for an initial period of at least 6 months. The current charges are as follows:

240 litre Black Bin - €6
140 litre Black Bin - €3.60
Brown Bin - €2

Please note that Greyhound operates a pre pay system. You are required to ensure that your Greyhound account has sufficient funds to meet the current cost of each black and brown bin lift. If you do not have sufficient funds in your account for the cost of a Black or Brown bin, you will not have your bin collected.

5. Q. How can I pay for this Greyhound service?

Greyhound will send you your customer Payment Card. This card includes your customer account number. You will require this information when you are making payments for the Annual Service Charge and Black and Brown Bin Lifts. Please note that Greyhound operates a pre pay system. You are required to ensure that your Greyhound account has sufficient funds to meet the current cost of each black and brown bin lift. If you do not have sufficient funds in your account for the cost of a Black or Brown bin, you will not have your bin collected.

You can pay the Annual Service Charge and/or top up your account as follows:
· On-line at www.greyhound.ie
· At local shops using Payzone
· At any post office

6. Q. Will my collection day change with a new operator?

A. You will be notified of your collection day by Greyhound Recycling and Recovery.

7. Q. Will my Green Bin be collected by Greyhound Recycling and Recovery?

A. You will receive a bar-coded label for your green bin once you have paid the Annual Service Charge. Once you place this label on your green bin, you will have your green bin collected free of charge. Green bins presented for collection without the bar-coded label will not be collected.

8. Q. How can I ensure that I have enough credit on my account to meet the cost of
my black and brown bin lifts?

A. Greyhound Recycling and Recovery provides you with an Automatic Top Up service that
· Is a convenient, hassle free way to manage your waste collection account.
· Makes it easy to ensure that your account always has sufficient credit to meet the respective cost of each black and brown bin lift.
· Ensures that you will not have to worry about missing a collection due to insufficient funds.

If you wish to avail of this service, YOU should complete the form received in the post and return it to Greyhound Recycling and Recovery. You can also log into your account at www.greyhound.ie and register for Automatic Top Up online.

9. Q. I am currently entitled to a waiver. Will this still apply when the service transfers to Greyhound Recycling and Recovery?
Any customer who had a waiver of the standing charge approved by the City Council at 9th December 2011 will continue to benefit from a waiver of the standing charge in the same way with Greyhound Recycling and Recovery for 2012. This will mean the following:

Annual Service Charge
As a waiver customer you are not required to pay the annual charge for 2012.
Black and Brown Bin Lift Charges
The current lift fee for each black and brown bin lift will apply for an initial period of at least 6 months. Please note that Greyhound operates a pre pay system. You are required to ensure that your Greyhound account has sufficient funds to meet the current cost of each black and brown bin lift. If you do not have sufficient funds in your account for the cost of a Black or Brown bin, you will not have your bin collected.

10. Q. I currently have a waiver - will my Green Bin be collected?
A. You will receive a bar-coded label for your green bin in the post. You should stick this label to the back of your green bin so that your recyclable waste can be collected free of charge. Green bins presented for collection without the bar-coded label will not be collected.

11. Q. Can I still apply for a waiver for 2012?
A. No. Only waivers that had been granted at 9th December 2011 will be honoured by Greyhound Recycling and Recovery in 2012.

12. Q. I have applied for a waiver -What is going to happen to my current waiver that has been approved or is awaiting evaluation?

A. All waiver applications have been evaluated and accounts adjusted where the waiver has been granted. Greyhound has been supplied with our waiver listing.

13. Q. Will the new waste provider operate a waiver system, if so, for how long?

A. Only waivers that have already been granted will be honoured by Greyhound Recycling and Recovery in 2012.

14. Q. Will the bag label system still operate for areas that have no bins?

A. Yes. Greyhound Recycling and Recovery will continue to provide this service for areas that have no bins.

15. Q. Will there be any change to the price of a label?

A. The cost for bag labels will remain unchanged for an initial period of at least 6 months.

16. Q. I have current labels issued by Dublin City Council. Can I still use them?

A. Yes. Greyhound Recycling and Recovery will honour all Dublin City Council bag labels up to 16th March 2012. Bags will not be collected from customers without a Greyhound Recycling and Recovery bag label after this date except for waiver customers whose waiver labels will be honoured for all of 2012.

17 Q. My account is in credit, will this credit apply to Greyhound or shall I receive a refund?
A. No. Any credit that you may have on your account will not transfer to Greyhound Recycling and Recovery. Refunds will be considered on application to the Revenue Unit accompanied with proof of who made the initial payment.

18 Q. I’m an existing customer with Dublin City Council. Will I get a bill in January?
A. Yes, you will receive a bill to cover the period 1st October 2011 to the 16th January 2012. The bill will be issued by Greyhound Recycling and Recovery who will be collecting outstanding monies on behalf of Dublin City Council.

19 Q. When the service transfers to Greyhound Recovery and Recycling, will I continue to get a quarterly bill?
A. No – Greyhound operates a pre-pay system and will send you your customer Payment Card. This card includes your customer account number. You are required to ensure that your Greyhound account has sufficient funds to meet the current cost of each black and brown bin lift. If you do not have sufficient funds in your account for the cost of a Black or Brown bin, you will not have your bin collected.

20 Q. I’m currently in arrears, do I currently continue to pay Dublin City Council?
A. After 16th January 2012, customers pay Greyhound directly for any outstanding monies owed.

21. Q. If I fall behind on my waste charges, can I enter into an arrears agreement with new provider?
A. No. Greyhound operates a pre-pay system.

22. Q. Will Dublin City Council recycling centres still be operational and if so, can I continue to bring my household/other waste to relevant centres?
A. Dublin City Council’s Recycling Centres will continue to operate as normal. Bagged household domestic waste will continue to be accepted at both Ringsend and North Strand Recycling Centres. A charge of €4 applies for each 80 litre bag of domestic waste disposed of.

23. Q. What are the contact details for Greyhound Recycling?
A. The telephone number is 1890 98 99 98 and the email address is dublincity@greyhound.ie

Stripey Cat

Ernest wrote: »

Since when did Dublin City Council get approval to regard their domestic waste collection SERVICE as a BUSINESS to be sold to anybody?

Since December. http://www.herald.ie/news/green-light-for-selloff-of-city-bin-collections-2968119.html

It was first mentioned back in August, I think. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0817/1224302580549.html

Dirk Gently

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

greyhound are now lifting customers bins that were with DCC, its up to the customer however if they choose to stay with greyhound. there is a few different companies covering dublin, off the top of my head -

thorntons
access
panda
greyhound

so far I've had a NO from thorntons and city bins. Waiting for panda to come back to me but there's no option outside of Fingal to sign up. Access are not taking any new dublin customers.

Would it be a case that the different councils award waste contracts at their own discretion, i.e south Dublin opening their patch up to multiple companies, allowing the customer to choose, Fingal selling to one contractor (panda) and dub city doing the same with greyhound? I see the regulations just state that a council must provide a waste service or make provision for a private contractor to do the collection. It doesn't say anything about one or multiple companies working an area though or if an area is opened up if the private company can cherry pick locations and refuse others. It just says the council must provide themselves or award a contract to a private provider to do so. As far as I can see once one private company is awarded a contract thats the councils job done and they can not interfere with price regulating. Seems like a bit of a blank cheque to me.

Dodge

I've already posted here that Thorntons do serve some areas of Dublin City Council, so there's no 'package' or monopoly. They choose to not serve your area, which is different