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Berlin 2016: Back to Basics

TheRoadRunner

The last time I started a log it ended in disaster but I'll tempt fate and start one again. I kinda enjoy writing down what I've done/plan to do and the feed back I get so I'll give it another bash and we'll see how we go. Short term goals are Frank Duffy 10 mile, national half marathon. Ideally I'd love to run PBs for both but the Frank Duffy 10 miler is a tough cookie and I heard the route around where the half is to be run are undulating.

Once I get through them I'll decide whether or not to run the Dublin marathon. This will depend on how I'm running and also my work/home schedule.

My PBs to date are
5K 15:40 (2007)
4 miles 21.01 (2008)
5 mile 26.45 (2007)
8 mile 45.02 (2005/6 ?)
10 mile 56.10 (2007)
Half Marathon 75.20 (2008)
Marathon 2hrs 47 mins (2009)

This year has been a good one so far. I haven't ran any PBs but in the last 2-3 months I have been in touching distance of most of those listed above. Training this year hasn't been as intense as before. A lot of my running was easy. I ran 2.48 for a marathon in April and apart from a couple of races and tempos all my training running was very slow. What's more my 5k and 4 mile times were really good (21.15 and 16 minutes) which I was amazed at considering I hadn't done any real pace running to talk about. I have an excel sheet with all my running this year. I'll try and post a modified version in the next few days to show what I've done to date. Going forward mileage will vary from 50-65 miles per week. Anymore than this I generally pick up injuries.

I'm going to continue on as before but will try to get some more tempo stuff in the legs. If I feel it isn't agreeing with me I'll drop it and keep plodding instead. I'd rather be a little slower but injury free.

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TheRoadRunner

dermCu wrote: »

Whats the upside in racing it all out? Too much risk involved IMO.
Running it as a tempo sounds better. Even still you'll need to be very disciplined. Throwing a guy at the top of his fitness who loves to race into a national 10k is a risky mix. Could easily spill over into more than just a tempo. Anyway its a while before you need to decide.

I'm in for London as well so I'll be following your log with more interest than usual. Good luck.

Yeah it's risk all right. I think we might have a decent team though. If it's a good team and we have a chance of medaling I'll give it 100% and risk the consequences, if not I'll just tip around. I actually did that 2 years ago ran 36 dead (as planned) and ran Madrid marathon the following weekend.

Obviously you have a GFA number. Have you a target time in mind?

dermCu

I managed to get a championship place this year. It gives me the full set of blue, red and green starts at London.

There is a sticker on the front of my fridge that says '2:41:59' and it mocks me every day. The last few months of running have been very fragmented so at this point I'd settle for lowering my PB by 1 second.

Krusty_Clown

dermCu wrote: »

I managed to get a championship place this year. It gives me the full set of blue, red and green starts at London.

There is a sticker on the front of my fridge that says '2:41:59' and it mocks me every day. The last few months of running have been very fragmented so at this point I'd settle for lowering my PB by 1 second.

My fridge magnet has my PB on it and it too mocks me every day, with my one second PB. I'd aim for more.

ultraman1

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

I'm comfortable doing 31 @ 6.40-7 minute pace before doing this though. Hopefully mid to late February.

TheRoadRunner

ultraman1 wrote: »

seriously Anto, stop sniffing the glue

TheRoadRunner

Sunday: 9.5 miles @ 7.13 pace. Half on grass half on road. A little more than planned but was enjoying the run so just went with it. Ran with the whippersnapper (aka Ecoli).

Monday: am 7 miles @ 7.02, pm 4 miles @ 8.02 pace. In hindsight this was stupid. Plan was for 12 miles but got held up so had to cut early run short. Had to walk dog in the evening so threw on runners instead and headed out the door with the mutt. I had very sore legs when I finished. Lower leg tendons did not feel good and I was cursing my over exuberance. Stretched out for a good while after the run and thankfully the following morning my legs felt fine with no hint of lower leg pain.

Tuesday: Did my good deed for the day and met with an elderly man for a run, I quite enjoyed Krusty's company (:D) and logged 12 miles @ 6.57. Most of this was on the grass. Really enjoyable and made up for missed longish run on Monday.

Wednesday: Had session of 4*1 mile penciled in for today. I was mindful of longer than planned run yesterday so said I would play it by ear. Haven't done any sort of session since September :eek: so wasn't expecting much anyway. Plan was to run between 5.30-5.40. Hit first 3 in 5.32,5.28 & 5.34. Died a death on number 4 so called it a day at half a mile, I could have dug in and pulled out a 5.40 but don't want to flog myself just yet. I was really breathing through my arse and form was all over the shop. I'll make sure to finish the session next week and space out the longish run better.

tunguska

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

I'll make sure to finish the session next week and space out the longish run better.

If its of any use to you we'll be doing 3 x 2mile at T-pace(about 5:35) with 2 mins rest between, next week.

TheRoadRunner

tunguska wrote: »

If its of any use to you we'll be doing 3 x 2mile at T-pace(about 5:35) with 2 mins rest between, next week.

Thanks but too hot for me at the moment, won't be hitting those sessions until mid Feb. All about peaking in April

TheRoadRunner

Thursday: 5 miles recovery

Friday: 16 miles @ 6.40 pace

Saturday: 4 miles of pain

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Monday: am 7 miles @ 7.02, pm 4 miles @ 8.02 pace. In hindsight this was stupid. Plan was for 12 miles but got held up so had to cut early run short. Had to walk dog in the evening so threw on runners instead and headed out the door with the mutt. I had very sore legs when I finished. Lower leg tendons did not feel good and I was cursing my over exuberance. Stretched out for a good while after the run and thankfully the following morning my legs felt fine with no hint of lower leg pain.

Well I have rightly ****ed my leg up. Have shin splint in my right leg. Absolute agony to run on Saturday. Stretched it out and felt better yesterday (didn't run but could walk with no pain :eek:) but am going to take a few days off in the hope the inflammation comes down. Was seriously stressed out over the weekend but have realised stress and a bad mood won't sort it out so I'll take whatever time is required off (hopefully a few days) to sort it out.

There are a couple of mitigating factors. New training shoe is definitely one. Going to go back to my old reliable Kayanos. Also had incredibly tight hammer the last week which may have in turn led to additional stress on lower right leg.

Peckham

Easy to say when you're not the one going through the enforced rest, but you've ages to go until London. A few days invested in rest and recovery now will pay dividends down the road.

theboyblunder

hope it clears up quickly RR. Time off def the right thing to do

Krusty_Clown

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Well I have rightly ****ed my leg up.

Hmm.. The 12 miles on Tuesday can't have helped either. Look after yourself. Time to start working on the guns and the 6 pack.

shels4ever

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Hmm.. The 12 miles on Tuesday can't have helped either. Look after yourself. Time to start working on the guns and the 6 pack.

TRR only works in 8 pack's and festival packs.....

TheRoadRunner

Two weeks of frustration running wise. 5 days off running completely and went for a test run. Leg was in ribbons so stopped immediately and took another 3 days off. Ran 5 miles Monday and 6 on Tuesday. Leg felt ok, a little uncomfortable but felt like it was recovering. On a scale of 10 pain was 5 and 4 both days. Down from 9 the week before.

Started running Wednesday and I was back to square one. Luckily I had arranged to visit the magician Wednesday night so I was looking forward to getting a diagnosis from him. I hadn't gone to see him beforehand as I was smashed, plain and simple, also I hoped my stretching and rest would sort the leg out.

I gave the magician an idea of where the pain was manifesting. The great thing about the magician is with very little info he can locate the trigger point very quickly. I was glad to hear the problem was a tight muscle (anterior tibial muscle) to be exact (I had suspected this myself). He asked what I had done differently lately and I blamed the new shoes (didn't mention some stupid things I'd done in training

). The next 90 minutes were torture. I now know the true meaning of blinding pain. I nearly got sick a couple of times and was glad I'd relieved my bowels before heading over for treatment

. Was told to take yesterday off and start back today. Did 4 handy miles and the shin pain is nearly gone completely. I have the sensation of a dead leg in my calf but I reckon that is just a little tender/tight. Will build up runs by 5 minutes a day for the next few days and continually stretch. Got a great variation on a shin stretch I use regularly and found this helps a lot.

So what does all this mean for London? Not a lot, not getting stressed. I'm just happy things are getting better (fingers crossed). I was already on a tight schedule so target times are now irrelevant. Hopefully I'll just up the miles slowly. I'll make a call on a time closer to the date but it will be alot slower that I first envisaged. As long as I'm running injury free I really don't care.

ecoli

Great to see you on the mend man

menoscemo

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

I gave the magician an idea of where the pain was manifesting. The great thing about the magician is with very little info he can locate the trigger point very quickly.

He really is magic, he always has his finger on the problem (literally) within a minute.

TheRoadRunner

Things have not gone well :mad: The magician sorted out the shin pain but there was still pain in the calf. Felt like a dead leg and when I ran it felt like it was only 70% as strong as the left leg. Took another week off and was happy to see that by last Thursday I could run up the stairs. Only realised I wasn't able to do that in the preceeding days

Took another few days off and started back running yesterday. Did 4.5 miles and shin and calf were near perfect. A little stiff in shin but I reckon it is close to 100%. Plan was to build it up this week but I woke this morning with the deadly man flu. Really knocked the bollox out of me and spent the day in bed, still feeling $hite now. Looks like another week will slip by. Had a heart attack when a friend of mine said London was 9 weeks away! I've decided London will now be a long training run. `Determined to run it just for the experience and take in the sites. A bit disappointing but at least this didn't happen last August/September. May look at setting a new goal in the Autumn. Just want to get back into the grove of training if I'm honest.

C'est la vie

ecoli

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Things have not gone well :mad: The magician sorted out the shin pain but there was still pain in the calf. Felt like a dead leg and when I ran it felt like it was only 70% as strong as the left leg. Took another week off and was happy to see that by last Thursday I could run up the stairs. Only realised I wasn't able to do that in the preceeding days

Took another few days off and started back running yesterday. Did 4.5 miles and shin and calf were near perfect. A little stiff in shin but I reckon it is close to 100%. Plan was to build it up this week but I woke this morning with the deadly man flu. Really knocked the bollox out of me and spent the day in bed, still feeling $hite now. Looks like another week will slip by. Had a heart attack when a friend of mine said London was 9 weeks away! I've decided London will now be a long training run. `Determined to run it just for the experience and take in the sites. A bit disappointing but at least this didn't happen last August/September. May look at setting a new goal in the Autumn. Just want to get back into the grove of training if I'm honest.

C'est la vie

Maybe try email London organisers and see do they need a 3 hr pacer and get your entry fee back;)

Seriously though sorry to hear about all your bad luck at the moment. I think you are right forget about time targets and just look to get back running and enjoying it

ultraman1

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

a long training run. .

hmmmmm;)

TheRoadRunner

ultraman1 wrote: »

hmmmmm;)

Anto, you are a pest. Do you need a dig out with your "long training run" event? I'm going to dirty dancing the night before :eek: thought that would give you a laugh but I should be up and at em early enough.

shels4ever

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Things have not gone well :mad: The magician sorted out the shin pain but there was still pain in the calf. Felt like a dead leg and when I ran it felt like it was only 70% as strong as the left leg. Took another week off and was happy to see that by last Thursday I could run up the stairs. Only realised I wasn't able to do that in the preceeding days

Took another few days off and started back running yesterday. Did 4.5 miles and shin and calf were near perfect. A little stiff in shin but I reckon it is close to 100%. Plan was to build it up this week but I woke this morning with the deadly man flu. Really knocked the bollox out of me and spent the day in bed, still feeling $hite now. Looks like another week will slip by. Had a heart attack when a friend of mine said London was 9 weeks away! I've decided London will now be a long training run. `Determined to run it just for the experience and take in the sites. A bit disappointing but at least this didn't happen last August/September. May look at setting a new goal in the Autumn. Just want to get back into the grove of training if I'm honest.

C'est la vie

Think thats a good call, no point killing yourself with only 9 weeks left :eek: , A nice easy 2:50 long run will do you good. You can jog back down the course then and meet me at 20 miles.
You'll be some beast for the drink after the run i'd say.

tunguska

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

I've decided London will now be a long training run. `Determined to run it just for the experience and take in the sites. A bit disappointing but at least this didn't happen last August/September. May look at setting a new goal in the Autumn. Just want to get back into the grove of training if I'm honest.

C'est la vie

You could use London as an experiment. Do whatever you can between now and then but just show up on the day and hammer it. Be interesting to see what you could achieve on very little training. I mean its all well and good racing when you're all trained up and confident but racing with ****all training would be a pure test of your mental strength. I reckon you could hit the 2:30s again because you've removed that mental barrier already.

ecoli

tunguska wrote: »

You could use London as an experiment. Do whatever you can between now and then but just show up on the day and hammer it. Be interesting to see what you could achieve on very little training. I mean its all well and good racing when you're all trained up and confident but racing with ****all training would be a pure test of your mental strength. I reckon you could hit the 2:30s again because you've removed that mental barrier already.

It might be a pure test of mental strength but it would be at the cost of physical well being. All well and good rushing back to fitness and running half decent time but not if it means you break down again and get injured for the next cycle. Training should be progressive over months and years rather than pushing yourself to breaking point recoverying and doing it all over again. You will see benefits simply because the accumulated training over each cycle even with the injury but there would be much more potential for improvement with consistency

tunguska

ecoli wrote: »

It might be a pure test of mental strength but it would be at the cost of physical well being. All well and good rushing back to fitness and running half decent time but not if it means you break down again and get injured for the next cycle. Training should be progressive over months and years rather than pushing yourself to breaking point recoverying and doing it all over again. You will see benefits simply because the accumulated training over each cycle even with the injury but there would be much more potential for improvement with consistency

But you're making one big assumption, that RR will get injured. You dont know that will happen. Sure injury is a risk, theres a chance he could get crocked, but theres also an equal chance he wont. You cant allow the fear of what could happen stop you. Thats my opinion anyway, I was just throwing it out there. Its Dave's choice ultimately.

TheRoadRunner

What a nightmare the start of 2012 has been running wise. However I think I'm back on track and on the road back to fitness. The calf problem took longer than I thought to clear up. It is grand now but is a little tight at times, nothing to complain about though.

All of this lower leg pain is the result of a dodgy hamstring which is/was itself quite tight. Thankfully I have everything under control (with proper stretching) and am running pain free.

Managed 30 odd miles 2 weeks ago a 10 mile long run and 52 miles last week with a 14 mile long run. I have gone soft in such a short period of time. I can run an hour one day but need to take it very handy the following day. I hope to build up to 2 hardish one easy day this week. Will continue to build back up slowly overall. Assuming I can get 6 weeks of 50+ mile weeks in the legs with 4 * 18+ long runs I'll run London. To be honest baring an injury breakdown this should be very doable.

A couple of my friends think I'm mad to run London (regardless of pace) and they are probably correct however I have a feeling the new arrival is going to write off my Summer and maybe even my Autumn racing plans so I'd just like to have a short term goal even if it is a bit long in terms of distance. The thoughts of running London have me excited where as realistically I should be targeting a 10k, however the thoughts of 10k training doesn't appeal to me at the moment. I suppose running is a hobby so I'm doing to do what feels fun rather than force myself to do something that will turn into a chore.

Anyway my leg has passed most of my self imposed fitness tests. There is still one to go but I'll wait a couple of weeks before trying that one out

Fitness test 1: Is leg sore getting out of bed? Was initially so that's why I took time off happily after a couple of days leg was perfect.

Fitness test 2: Is leg sore walking around Again was for a week or so but grand after a week

Fitness test 3: Is leg sore climbing stairs This is an excellent text for the calf and that took longer to pass, eventually was fine.

Fitness test 4: Is leg sore while running Loosens out after a couple of miles but initially was very sore so stopped when this occurred. Happy to report 2 weeks pain free running

Fitness test 5: Is leg sore after booze Like test number 3 this is an excellent test. When I'm injured, the morning after a few beers I can always feel any niggles that I may be carrying. Had a few beers Friday evening and felt grand Saturday. Very important test passed

Fitness test 6: Is leg sore from speed work Won't try this for another couple of weeks as want to build back up slowly but hopefully should be able to pass this in 10-14 days time.

I probably won't update this log too frequently but will post weekly mileage etc. I suppose the training done coming back from a layoff is just as interesting as the training done while at full fitness.

Viva La RoadRunner

Krusty_Clown

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

All of this lower leg pain is the result of a dodgy hamstring which is/was itself quite tight.

Have you considered wearing tighter shorts? They won't do anything for your hamstring, but will distract you from the pain.

Good to see you ticking off miles again. No doubt you'll still run a faster marathon than me, on the back of feic all training.

TheRoadRunner

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Managed 30 odd miles 2 weeks ago a 10 mile long run and 52 miles last week with a 14 mile long run. I have gone soft in such a short period of time. I can run an hour one day but need to take it very handy the following day. I hope to build up to 2 hardish one easy day this week. Will continue to build back up slowly overall. Assuming I can get 6 weeks of 50+ mile weeks in the legs with 4 * 18+ long runs I'll run London. To be honest baring an injury breakdown this should be very doable.

What a major difference a week makes

Had a good week of running last week. I'm amazed and delighted how quickly I'm getting back into the swing of things. I'm not as soft as I was last week but I still need to run very easy a couple of days. The other days I feel very strong.

My head is all over the place, London could be one of the few races I get to run this year and initially I would have been happy to get around in sub 3hrs and soak up the experience. However after last weeks training i think more is possible :rolleyes:. I've ran London in 2.47 before so now I'm thinking it would be nice to chase a course PB

If I managed to do that it will also be my second fastest marathon. I'll see how the next few weeks go. A friend of mine who is an excellent runner (&trainer) always says it easy to bang out a 50/60/70/etc mile week but the real knack is banging out those weeks consistently, if I can continue in the same vain as last week I'll be laughing. I think I need to find a shortish race and will also need to run a half marathon (@PMP) time trial before I decide on a realistic time to chase. Regardless I'm delighted with how things are going though.

Monday: 7 miles @ 7.50 pace, felt faster if I'm honest but I think that is because we picked it up the second half of the run.
Tuesday: 10 miles @ 7.09 pace. Lovely run along the Royal canal felt great.
Wednesday: 11 miles @ 7.15 pace along Royal canal with company. Pace was fine but the wind knocked the crap out of me on the way back. I was glad to hear the other 2 lads found it tough as well.
Thursday: 5 miles recovery
Friday: 18 miles @ 7 minute pace. Felt like a piece of piss and was chomping at the bit to go faster but kept it steady.
Saturday: 5 miles recovery on roads. Stuck for time but felt good.
Sunday: 8 miles, let rip on the last 5. Had no watch so no idea of pace but based on some landmarks it was more than healthy.

64 miles for the week, that's a surprise.

I don't normally raise money for charity when I run races (as I do a lot of them obviously) but this year I'm raising money for the Saoirse foundation. It raises awareness and funds for young children to travel to the US for novel treatments against a fatal neurodegenerative disease (Battens). If you'd like to sponsor me (minimum allowed on site in 2 euro) you can do so at this link, thanks

TheRoadRunner

Mon: 9 miles @ 6.45 pace. Late evening run, love running late in the day but the major raw back is that it takes me ages to relax and get some sleep in. Was floating on this run.
Tue: 7 miles easy @ 7.28 pace. Handy run, a little tired from Monday's late effort.
Wed: 20 miles @ 6.39 pace. Had to get the long run done mid week as no guarantee would have got out the weekend. Felt great. Did it without fuel and little water as wanted to suffer the last section. Last 2 miles were toughish but more than managed to hold pace.
Thur: 6 miles easy @ 7.36. Nice recovery on grass.
Fri: 13 miles @ 6.45. Had to squeeze this one in and was a little chore to get my arse out the door but after a mile I felt grand.
Sat: 7 miles easy @ 7.30 pace. Legs felt great before run but a mile in could feel some tiredness so kept it very handy. Better to play it safe.
Sun: 8.5 miles @ 6.50 pace. Legs feeling great but kept the mileage down as may get a longish one in tomorrow morning.

70+ miles for the week and everything feels fine. As an added bonus the tightness I've been experiencing in my hammer since August is non existent.

I'm raising money for the Saoirse foundation. It raises awareness and funds for young children to travel to the US for novel treatments against a fatal neurodegenerative disease (Battens). If you'd like to sponsor me (minimum allowed on site in 2 euro) you can do so at this link, thanks

TheRoadRunner

Great week last week. The strength I've built up over the last 2-3 years of continuous running has meant that getting back to 70+ mile weeks is not a problem. Maybe my legs are still a little fresh but I don't think that's the reason.

Base fitness has come back quite quickly and while I feel I can run high mileage the pace is the important factor. 7 minute miling is no problem but anything faster may prove a problem. The way I look at it, at the moment I am in sub 2.50 shape but I'm like a boxer I'll have no problem getting through the 12 rounds (marathon

) so long as the other boxer doesn't throw a good body shot (i.e me trying to run 2.45). With that in mind I decided I needed to shock the system and toughen myself up a little this week with a bit of sparring. It started off badly but things quickly turned around.

Mon: 12 @ 7.07 pace. Took advantage of B/H Monday and got in a nice run with a friend.
Tue: 6.5 miles easy, pm 4 mile @ 8 min pace. Nice recovery day. Felts felt very good after evening run.
Wed: 10ish miles with 3 * 2 mile @ 5.55 pace. These reps tore the stomach out of me. Was horrified that 6 minute mile pacing played havoc with my insides. The reps themselves were grand but couldn't risk a fart for the rest of the day.
Thur: am 6.5 miles easy, pm 4 mile @ 8 min pace. Nice recovery day
Fri: 12 miles @ 6.45 (4 @ 5.55 pace). 6 miles with a friend then 4 mile up tempo followed by nice jog. Felt very easy, much easier than Wednesdays effort and stomach etc was fine afterward (thankfully).
Sat: 6 miles @ 5.59. Unplanned trail race (mini report below). Legs were dead so was happy with this effort.
Sun: 18 miles @ 6.54. Met up with Krusty in the Phornix park. Was a scorcher. Really enjoyed the early miles. Had planned a different run with some faster intervals but when I speeded up it just didn't feel right. Hammer was a little tight and my quads were very tired. Eased off and let KC continue on. Not the run I had originally planned but can have no complaints after hard run Friday and Saturday.

Trail race
Was in Tymon park with the Mrs and Jnr. Had gear in the car and plan was to run home from park (7 miles). Spotted that there was a trail race and the mrs suggested I enter it so we could head out for lunch instead of heading home and my run getting in the way. Looked like a bit of craic so I joined in with the intention of running hard but not racing (mistake number 1). Field wasn't very competitive and after 2k I was 8th, some head the ball up the front kept on surging and I couldn't help it but I kept going with the pace, after 3k I decided to get to the front and control the surges, soon there were just the 3 of us. It was a 2 lap race and the mrs was roaring abuse at me when I went through the end of lap 1 tied for first (I had promised to take it easy

). The next lap was brilliant, it was pure racing, the lad I was running with would surge, I'd catch him then I'd charge up a hill, this went on for 3-4k was brilliant stuff. Legs were very dead, not really tired but had no spring. With a km to go he put in a bit spurt and I was just about to give chase when I could feel the hammer get tighter so I eased back. I wanted to win but not enough to reinjure myself. To be honest there was no guarantee I would have caught him anyway. He ended up 12 seconds ahead of me. Was great fun and my first race since Berlin:o This run messed up my Sunday run and I really shouldn't have risked it but it went well and I got a great buzz from it.

80ish miles for the week. Two recovery days on the cards now and then a time trial on Wednesday. Will have an idea of target pace for London after that.

ultraman1

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

there was a trail race and the mrs suggested I enter it

will print this off and put on fridge.....