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Legalise and tax soft drugs

forfuxsake

I am sure that this has been suggested but as marijuana can be produced for near nowt, then why not legalise it and tax it for the following reasons.

1. The tax revenue would be enormous
2. Most soft drugs are no more harmful than alcohol, tobacco, fatty foods, driving etc.
3. The Netherlands has just introduced a ban on foreigners smoking. Tourism would increase dramatically.
4. It would lead to the creation of proftiable new businesses in every town in Ireland.

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paddyandy

n900guy wrote: »

Except Netherlands and Portugal which have seen massive reductions in drug dependency and regular drug use.

EDIT: Assuming that is what you want.

These are early days....time will out .Massive problems and demands on services on the way...

vinnyirl

This might be long so bear with me

I smoked a little weed a few years ago and even when to Amsterdam for a smoking holiday, however I do not smoke week regularly maybe once a year. I don't really enjoy it to be honest but some people do and seeing as it has been proven to be less harmful than alcohol, tobacco, fast food and even soft drinks :eek: I think it should be legal to purchase.

Most people associate drugs with crime, and don't even consider alcohol and tobacco drugs, I think this is the reason there is such a negative view on making light drugs legal.

Oddjob wrote: »

Typical teenage argument. The vast majority of people who drink, don't do it to get drunk, they enjoy it, they have it with a meal etc.

Drugs exist solely alter to your mind, if they didn't, you wouldn't buy them.

Tax revenue would be negligible.

Holland has stopped foreigners buying weed as they're a nuisance and contribute nothing to the local economy.

Do you really want tourists coming here to live on €6 a day to get wasted?

What businesses would be created?

Alcohol is a drug too and it alters you mind just like the rest of the drugs. Also the vast majority of people who drink don't drink because they like the taste that's stupid, I like apple juice but I wouldn't drink 2-3 pints of it in any day. People drink because it makes them feel good. The taste is important but its because of the feeling that people drink. Also there are people who just have one join like there are people that just have one pint.

Tax revenue would actually be quite healthy cant remember the exact number but its something like 20-30% of the population smoke weed. You can also add in the cost of guards trying to stop all the weed as people would not go to a dealer if they can get it in a shop. Remember what happened with the head shops, drug gangs were burning them down because they were loosing money.

Live on €6 a day where are you living? How is it any different than stag and hen nights? Other than alcohol makes you aggressive and weed makes you passive. Never to mind the fact weed gives you the munchies and makes you spend a heap of money on junk food (which is now taxed at 23%)(and the upcoming sugar tax)

paddyandy wrote: »

A whole new raft of problems from legalising drugs...it has'nt worked anywhere .Ireland would draw a very sinister kind of attention from crime gangs around the world .We have plenty enough problems as it is .Visit Brixton in south London and hear of tales to make you shudder . I lived over there .

Actually decriminalizing soft drugs has worked in many countries as it frees up resources in law enforcement to catch real criminals. Again I will say that making drugs legal will not bring in crime gangs (there already here) it will make them leave, who would bother dealing with a dealer when they can get it in the shops. The retail industry would suck all the profits out of it for the criminals.

Caveman1 wrote: »

Well I could be wrong but I'm not sure people resort to crime because they are strung out on cigarettes

+1 totally agree

GarIT wrote: »

The government is clearly trying to eventually make smoking tobacco illegal. Soon there will be a ban on smoking near entrances to public buildings, then smoking in public, then just smoking. I don't see them making it illegal to smoke one thing and at the same time legal to smoke another.

They don't need to make it legal to smoke weed in public, people could just smoke it at home like they do now. Banning smoking near entrances will be enforced about as much as the current an on J walking.

Finally if you would like to be a bit better informed look up the history on cannabis, long story short its only illegal because it was being used to make cheap paper and the wood paper industry started a smear campaign that worked.

paddyandy

The Drug Business is here i can read that familiar line ..They have their own way of revealing themselves . Like a scratchin' under the floor boards.ie . The peculiar droppings on the thread ...little beads of low life wisdom...
Nothing like very long posts to confuse with a good sprinkling of vague stats.

[Deleted User]

Yeah, shur in Holland its pretty much a nation of drug addicts...that are closing down prisons due to the lack of actual crime..

Kidchameleon

Oddjob wrote: »

Christ, more children. Nobody wants tourists spending €6 a day falling around the streets, They contribute nothing to the local economy, they spend no money.

Eh, what? They eat in restaurants, stay in hotels, go to museums, buy alcohol, cafe's, whores, use public transport. 40% of Amsterdam's tourists are drug tourists.

Mark my words, somewhere will be the next Amsterdam, as soon as the restrictions are put in place.

Jamie Starr

As much as I would love to be able to buy weed and other substances free of persecution in Ireland, like I was during my in Amsterdam, I don't think it could ever work for Ireland. There's such a huge difference culturally and socially between Ireland and Holland, I don't think it would realistically fly, despite the enticing amount of money (in the region of €400+million if Luke Flanagan's figures in the Dail are anything to go by) that would be raised for the Exchequer.

It is incredibly frustrating to go from a responsible adult in one country, to someone on the chain of criminal activity. The lack of research and the greyness of legislation at times, doubly so.

Suryavarman

paddyandy wrote: »

EVER TRY TO GET A DRUG ADDICT TO PAY FOR ANYTHNG ???????

No I haven't. I'd appreciate it if you didn't shout as well.

dearg lady

Oddjob wrote: »

Typical teenage argument. The vast majority of people who drink, don't do it to get drunk, they enjoy it, they have it with a meal etc.

This is the funniest thing I've read in while! Getting drunk is exactly the reason most people drink! Sure not everyone, but a sizable portion.

Oddjob wrote: »

Drugs exist solely alter to your mind, if they didn't, you wouldn't buy them.

alcohol is a drug...in case you hadn't noticed..

Oddjob wrote: »

Tax revenue would be negligible.

What makes ya so sure? Given the high percentage of usually law abiding Irish people who smoke weed, they would be only too happy to purchase it legally and pay taxes, given the chance.

Oddjob wrote: »

Holland has stopped foreigners buying weed as they're a nuisance and contribute nothing to the local economy.

Do you really want tourists coming here to live on €6 a day to get wasted?

What businesses would be created?

I don't know about what issues tourists in Holland are causing, but there's no reason why Ireland couldn't do the same they have at the moment.

paddyandy

If a nation cannot deal with alcohol ...and we have very serious problems here.... are we to believe that we can deal with legalising soft drugs ? There is a different kind of 'wild man' full of dope and he's rarely predictable .A drunk is much easier to handle .Life will get much more difficult for many families who have problems enough as it is . Sinn Fein's voice is noticeably absent on the matter of drugs . Interestingly they never have anything to say that i've heard .

dearg lady

paddyandy wrote: »

If a nation cannot deal with alcohol ...and we have very serious problems here.... are we to believe that we can deal with legalising soft drugs ? There is a different kind of 'wild man' full of dope and he's rarely predictable .A drunk is much easier to handle .Life will get much more difficult for many families who have problems enough as it is . Sinn Fein's voice is noticeably absent on the matter of drugs . Interestingly they never have anything to say that i've heard .

Do you honestly believe that pot smokers will cause more problems than drinkers? I'd be pretty shocked if that were the case myself.

ArmaniJeanss

n900guy wrote: »

Except Netherlands and Portugal which have seen massive reductions in drug dependency and regular drug use.

EDIT: Assuming that is what you want.

paddyandy wrote: »

These are early days....time will out .Massive problems and demands on services on the way...

Amsterdam is on the verge of anarchy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTPsFIsxM3w

mathepac

Interesting that two posters have mentioned "soft drugs" in their posts and neither has responded to the invitation to define "soft drugs" so it's probably safe to assume that it is a substance sold in LaLaLand to the compliant residents.

What model to limit the availability of these "soft drugs" to adults would proponents use? How would licensing work and what outlets would sell these "soft drugs"?

Do proponents of the decriminalisation of "soft drugs" see the distribution channels for currently licensed habit-forming dangerous drugs being effective? e.g. prescription meds Xanax, Valium etc. are not available on the streets for very small money and there is no demand for smuggled cigarettes and illegal alcohol because they are available legally? Underage kids don't smoke tobacco and get drunk?

I believe before we can countenance legalising "soft drugs" whatever they are, we need to look at how we eliminate the illegal trade in so-called legal drugs first and prevent our children turning into cancer-riddled alcoholics. We need to get our priorities right and fulfilling the selfish wants of consumers of these mythical "soft drugs" is certainly not one of them.

Sea Sharp

What model to limit the availability of these "soft drugs" to adults would proponents use? How would licensing work and what outlets would sell these "soft drugs"?

Do proponents of the decriminalisation of "soft drugs" see the distribution channels for currently licensed habit-forming ^dangerous drugs being effective? e.g. prescription meds Xanax, Valium etc. are not available on the streets for very small money and there is no demand for smuggled cigarettes and illegal alcohol because they are available legally? Underage kids don't smoke tobacco and get drunk?

I think the provisional driving licence model would work. it would make people educate themselves about drugs before sitting a test for a licence.

saywhatyousee

Oddjob wrote: »

Typical teenage argument. The vast majority of people who drink, don't do it to get drunk, they enjoy it, they have it with a meal etc.

Drugs exist solely alter to your mind, if they didn't, you wouldn't buy them.

Tax revenue would be negligible.

Holland has stopped foreigners buying weed as they're a nuisance and contribute nothing to the local economy.

Do you really want tourists coming here to live on €6 a day to get wasted?

What businesses would be created?

Contribute nothing that has to be a laugh right? I go to holland twice a year and spend 1000 plus each time.I am friends with coffeeshop owners and mark my words weed will never be driven underground in Amsterdam anyway.They are only banning tourist entering the southern states because they are chocking the roads can you imagine a place the size of Galway trying to handle 9 million visitors a year.This is all huffing and puffing its just a right wing party making noise to please voters without doing anything.Do not worry there will be coffeeshops in Amsterdam in 10 years time.Oh and OP cannabis will never be legal in Ireland for the for see able future because the vintners lobby is to strong legalized cannabis would decimate the alcohol industry.

saywhatyousee

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Eh, what? They eat in restaurants, stay in hotels, go to museums, buy alcohol, cafe's, whores, use public transport. 40% of Amsterdam's tourists are drug tourists.

Mark my words, somewhere will be the next Amsterdam, as soon as the restrictions are put in place.

Dont forget the city tax on hotel room's aswell

SupaNova

It appears to be win win win, government get more tax, less police resources wasted criminalizing people for drug use and the sale of drugs, plus a tourism boost.

And the fear that we would be on a slippery slope toward anarchy is contrary to what has actually happened in Holland.

LLU

forfuxsake wrote: »

I am sure that this has been suggested but as marijuana can be produced for near nowt, then why not legalise it and tax it for the following reasons.

1. The tax revenue would be enormous
2. Most soft drugs are no more harmful than alcohol, tobacco, fatty foods, driving etc.
3. The Netherlands has just introduced a ban on foreigners smoking. Tourism would increase dramatically.
4. It would lead to the creation of proftiable new businesses in every town in Ireland.

No, I don't think this has ever ever ever been suggested on boards before. :rolleyes:

Paarthurnax

Oddjob wrote: »

Typical teenage argument. The vast majority of people who drink, don't do it to get drunk, they enjoy it, they have it with a meal etc.

You are having a laugh aren't you!!!:D

Alcohol Statistics Ireland:

Irish adults have the highest consumption of alcohol and highest degree of binge drinking in Europe (European Union).
Average alcohol consumption (according to alcohol statistics done in Ireland in 2002) was 9.3 liters. Twice as high compared to the statistical levels reported in most of the European countries.
Highest alcohol consumption was in 2001 (14.4 liters) of pure alcohol.
Alcohol consumption slowed down in Ireland in 2003 for the first time in 16 years by 6 percent because of a slowdown in spirits sales.
Alcohol consumption statistics for Ireland in 2003 were 13.5 liters of pure alcohol.

Alcohol Consumption statistics Ireland (average taken from 1998 to 2004)

I however dont agree with legalising drugs in Ireland, it is bad enough that we dumb down the country with cheap Alcohol. Ah sure it help with the pain we'll drink our way out of our economic mess or just bitch about it from the bar stool.

Pete_Cavan

forfuxsake wrote: »

I am sure that this has been suggested but as marijuana can be produced for near nowt, then why not legalise it and tax it for the following reasons.

1. The tax revenue would be enormous
2. Most soft drugs are no more harmful than alcohol, tobacco, fatty foods, driving etc.
3. The Netherlands has just introduced a ban on foreigners smoking. Tourism would increase dramatically.
4. It would lead to the creation of proftiable new businesses in every town in Ireland.

The only place that would see a large increase in tourism is Dublin, with moderate increases in Cork and Limerick. I cant see Galway benefiting because these tourists dont want to travel internally, they will land in Dublin/Shannon/Cork and wont travel far beyond. No one will be going to Longford on a smoking holiday. Any of these "new businesses" that open outside Dublin, Cork and Limerick will only be there to prey on the vulnerable in the locality. The vast majority of their customers would be those with physiological/emotional issues, the long term unemployed or young people with nothing else to do. In all cases, most of the turnover will be coming from state money given to these people which they will use to fund their habit. And figures about the percentage of the population that have tried drugs is irrelevant as many people will have tried things when they were young but have no interest in going near them again.

The argument about an increase in tourism is nul and void in my opinion anyway because we have a beautiful country with a unique culture and rich heritage. Failte Ireland shouldnt be promoting the country by saying "Ireland, come here and get stoned!". We would basically be sacrificing the tourism industry to get in college students for the weekend on their break between semesters. If anything I'm sure there would be a net drop in tourism. Anyway, if drugs tourism is such a cash cow, then why are the Dutch government slaughtering it?

Also the issue of the gateway drug has not been mentioned yet. Legalising cannadis may stop drug dealers from selling it but they will change to pushing harder drugs on those who have become indifferent to drug taking because of the ease at which they can get cannabis. As for criminal gangs leaving the country, it is worth noting that the Netherlands is a major European producer of synthetic drugs, including ecstasy, and cannabis cultivator and is an important gateway for cocaine, heroin, and hashish entering Europe. This is hardly the kind of "tourists" we want, and any costs saved in policing drugs internally will be cancelled out by tighter border controls.

the_syco

paddyandy wrote: »

A whole new raft of problems from legalising drugs...it has'nt worked anywhere .Ireland would draw a very sinister kind of attention from crime gangs around the world .We have plenty enough problems as it is .Visit Brixton in south London and hear of tales to make you shudder . I lived over there .

It works well in Amsterdam. Last time I checked, weed isn't legal in South London.

Oddjob wrote: »

Holland has stopped foreigners buying weed as they're a nuisance and contribute nothing to the local economy.

Bullsh|t. You can still buy it over there.

Pete_Cavan

the_syco wrote: »

Oddjob wrote: »

Holland has stopped foreigners buying weed as they're a nuisance and contribute nothing to the local economy.

Bullsh|t. You can still buy it over there.

Not for much longer;

http://www.government.nl/documents-and-publications/press-releases/2011/05/27/the-dutch-cabinet-coffeeshop-to-be-a-private-club-for-the-local-market.html

Coffeeshops will become private clubs for the local market. Upon recommendation by Minister Schippers of Health, Welfare and Sport and Minister Opstelten of Security and Justice, the Council of Ministers has agreed to measures to reduce nuisance and drugs tourism. For example, access to coffeeshops will be linked to a membership pass and the Cabinet will set a maximum number of members per coffeeshop. Members have to be adults and Dutch citizens.

Kinda makes you wonder about the tourism benefits of legalised soft drugs, doesnt it?

darken9

Any law that tries to protect people from themselves is inherently unjust because if you want to call your society free then you have to except that true freedom means the freedom to make bad decisions. You are not free if you are only free to do what the majority thinks is best for you.
It doesn't matter if we are talking about drugs, prostitution gambling pornography, locking someone up in a cage or ruining there lives with a criminal record not because society needs protection from them but because they need protection from themselves is morally reprehensible. We are ruining peoples lives because they are consuming a plant that humans have been digesting since the dawn of time. Telling a person what they can and can't digest is only one step away from telling them what they can and can't think. And in the same way we are appalled at the notion of locking someone up because they expressed an idea someday in the future we will look back at our digestion laws with the same level of disgust.

ArmaniJeanss

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Not for much longer;

http://www.government.nl/documents-and-publications/press-releases/2011/05/27/the-dutch-cabinet-coffeeshop-to-be-a-private-club-for-the-local-market.html

Kinda makes you wonder about the tourism benefits of legalised soft drugs, doesnt it?

Theres been a lot of incorrect reporting of this.

Whilst the legislation is there at national level, the implementation of it remains a local issue and its up to each local council whether they wish to opt in.

So Maastrict, the original driver of the legislation, is pushing ahead. But other cities, in particular Amsterdam are maintaining the status quo. The current council, in power until the next elections in 2014 has decided not to implement the new rules between now and 2014. And its considered unlikely that any party would get elected locally in Amsterdam on a platform of implementing the new harsher rules. Because a majority of locals are against it as they understand the benifits it brings to their area.

Kinda makes you wonder about the tourism benefits of legalised soft drugs, doesnt it?

paddyandy

dearg lady wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that pot smokers will cause more problems than drinkers? I'd be pretty shocked if that were the case myself.

Different problems but this is a 'Gate' drug and sooner or later something new is tried ......but there should be a facility for sick people . Pot does effect work place behaviour . Accidents at home and small children or babies being dropped and consequently brain damaged .People driving cars and using gadgets etc.......You can't expect good sense from any drug user .

the_syco

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Not for much longer;

Check the date. It went up to debate, and turned down: they know who butters their bread.

srsly78

Ban weed because stoners drop babies on their heads...

Suryavarman

paddyandy wrote: »

Different problems but this is a 'Gate' drug and sooner or later something new is tried

I believe the term is "gateway drug".

Any chance that you might prove that there is such a thing as a gateway drug and that cannabis is in fact a gateway drug. Also could you try and give us some reason why we would suddenly have a drug epidemic if we legalised cannabis.

......but there should be a facility for sick people . Pot does effect work place behaviour . Accidents at home and small children or babies being dropped and consequently brain damaged .People driving cars and using gadgets etc.......

If drug use is causes these things then these accidents already happen. What reason is there to think that if any currently illegal drugs are legalised then there will be a sudden increase in these accidents?

You can't expect good sense from any drug user .

Do you smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol? Take any medication? I'm sure there is plenty on this forum that do and exhibit plenty of sense in their day to day lives.

paddyandy

What little sense of Collective Responsibility & individual responsibility do we have . We Irish People seem to have little sense of aggregate or collective responsibility these days .Irish People are great abroad with each other but that national fervour is weak here . I returned to Ireland from my sojourn and was appalled at the Tavern Patriotism here .Where are we for one another .?......nowhere !.Fighting a class war among our selves while doing it for Ireland .The Drugs Issue is a Class war under some Phony Banner of Freedom of our Country .After 80 years the basic freedom to walk down a street unhindered is denied to us because the lefties have an idea of Freedom that is Tyrannical and sly in it's enactment.The Walking dead can be seen on any City Centre street in Dublin .Ireland might totally collapse within a decade .A feral State is not impossible .Look abroad ...the warnings are there .

paddyandy

Suryavarman wrote: »

I believe the term is "gateway drug".

Any chance that you might prove that there is such a thing as a gateway drug and that cannabis is in fact a gateway drug. Also could you try and give us some reason why we would suddenly have a drug epidemic if we legalised cannabis.

If drug use is causes these things then these accidents already happen. What reason is there to think that if any currently illegal drugs are legalised then there will be a sudden increase in these accidents?
Gate ;my use of is a regular term.............a fickle criticism...what age are you ? 18?

Do you smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol? Take any medication? I'm sure there is plenty on this forum that do and exhibit plenty of sense in their day to day lives.

Your arguments are mostly SMOKE and i have better things to do than waste my time here .You simply don't have enough maturity for any argument .

Suryavarman

paddyandy wrote: »

Your arguments are mostly SMOKE and i have better things to do than waste my time here .You simply don't have enough maturity for any argument .

I'd have to disagree that I'm not mature enough for an argument although that is for others to decide. All I'm asking for is a link to an academic paper or a news article that will back up your position. I believe that you will fail to do so as you're arguments are both hysterical and incorrect.