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Why is suicide so common here?

TeddyTedson

The number of suicides here is obviously a huge problem, but what do people think some of the reasons are?
Off hand I can personally think of around five cases, some of the people I only knew to see and others I would have known well. I only know one person who has died in a car crash to put my own perspective on it, and I didn't know them well, I know this is just my personal experience and has no relevance in the over all scheme of things.
The country being so dark must play a part. I know that they say suicide rates are highest near Christmas and that dark countries generally have a higher rate. But I think a lot of the old soviet Russian countries have very high rates due to the unique social structure in them which must skewer the statistics a bit. I'm only pointing that out because I think the situation here is drastically different, but I could well be wrong.
I think Alcohol must play a massive part. A lot of people take their own life after drinking a lot. But I imagine many of these people have something else initially at the root of the cause.
There are things like peoples sexuality/financial situation/relationships/stress and everything in between which may factor into it, but these situations aren't exclusive to people in Ireland. Could it be a fear of disappointing other people?
I always sort of feel females are over looked when it comes to talking about suicide in Ireland but I'll have to generalise here a bit so forgive me. Young Irish men are at the highest risk, and it seems in my opinion to be because they are incapable of dealing with the pressure, of what ever the underlying reason(s) are. I realise that's perhaps an overly simplistic statement to make, on such a sensitive subject, so excuse me for that.
I know its a typically Irish thing to say now and suggest that perhaps schools could find a way to help young people cope, and obviously it will be society as a whole that will have to try and resolve the issue. But thinking back to primary school, it's more like a small community when compared to secondary school, from the schools I went to anyway. I noticed people tend to stick to "their own kind" in a way of sorts in secondary school. I could be completely off the mark about this, but I think it sort of builds up walls so to speak that people carry with them for a long time in many ways.
I've a lot of personal guess work thrown into my post there so I apologise if I've said anything factually way off the mark. I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of other people on the matter.

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crash davis

ottostreet wrote: »

Well, in a way, it is. It is an act which, put bluntly, is a self aware animal that has been mentally tortured (either through its own thought process or the circumstances of its existence) to the point where it feels self-termination is the only cure.

If you think I am being too cold about it, it is something that I am lucky has not deprived my family and myself of my mother. She has suffered from depression for a few years now and has tried to kill herself. She is a very logical, rational person, and was an atheist for years. She said that on bad days, she wakes up and its like a massive black hole has enveloped her mind and is writhing around, kicking and screaming constantly in her head, constantly telling her that the only end to the mental torture, is through physical death.

She has undergone treatment and continues to do so, and she is much better now. She has rediscovered some old hobbies, but...oddly, has become a fully fledged Quaker. Finding some form of spiritual enlightenment that her logical mind can accept has allowed her the happiness that she was missing. A poster above mentioned a lack of God/religion, and I can't agree with that right now. I'm 23, and maybe because my own mortality has not been brought into focus in my own head, my atheism has not made me unhappy yet. I don't understand suicide, I don't understand mental illness, despite seeing it first hand. I can't understand how a logical mind can crack. It makes it very difficult for me to sympathise with someone who is depressed, as logically, I feel that a change in circumstances can rectify the situation.

Sorry for interupting, but are Quakers people who just like to live off the land, form communities and live peacefully with one another? I know nothing about them apart from what I've said, and it's more than likely untrue.

MrStuffins

guitarzero wrote: »

No, I was saying I wouldnt want to fall into throwing foul language at you for such a half witted comment as you roll your eyes and throw around smallpox analogies.

Then don't. Engage in debate instead. Simples!

crash davis

MrStuffins wrote: »

Now THAT'S an insult!

Sarcasm isn't against the forum charter.

Also, I wasn't being sarcastic at all in this thread.

I'm just being sociable, not accusing you of anything silly.

EKClarke

lestat21 wrote: »

Not at all.. Mental illness, depression and unfortunately suicide arent going away, but by discussing these issues were might chip away at the the stigma around it.. and maybe even get men talking about there feelings!!

Efforts wont eradicate suicide but in Ireland especially, we need to be aware and do what we can to reduce the numbers of people in this situation

It's not about talking about your feelings. That's very naive. It's about an emotional inability to cope. Talking works well for women, (and for men, just not as well) as it allows the reorganization of information (essentially what therapy is). But it's not as simple as talking about feelings rather coping to/with them.

applehunter

MrStuffins wrote: »

Great point.

This is part of what i've been trying to say. Rather than trying to figure out and understand the reasons why this person was drinking or on drugs, it must've been the simple case of the person being care-free, started usng drugs and then commited suicide!

Again I can only speak from personal experience.

Member of my family has attempted suicide on 3 occasions that I know of and every time they have been under the influence of drugs/alcohol.

amacachi

MrStuffins wrote: »

Great point.

This is part of what i've been trying to say. Rather than trying to figure out and understand the reasons why this person was drinking or on drugs, it must've been the simple case of the person being care-free, started usng drugs and then commited suicide!

I can't think of any of my friends who were fine, started drinking/taking drugs and ended up depressed. Plenty started and ended depressed though. :pac:
Obviously it's not a perfect dataset :pac: When dependence and addiction come in then they can certainly be a factor.

The Internet Explorer

crash davis wrote: »

Sorry for interupting, but are Quakers people who just like to live off the land, form communities and live peacefully with one another? I know nothing about them apart from what I've said, and it's more than likely untrue.

I think you may be thinking of the Amish. Quakers is that porridge sh*t.

MrStuffins

applehunter wrote: »

So what is your opinion?

I was just giving my thoughts. I'm not an expert.

You've said its more complex and you have laughed down my suggestions so what is in you opinion that has made suicide so common here?

Maybe you haven't been able to put across your thoughts as well as you can up until now but so far one of the things you've said is that a cause for suicide is that there is no possibiliy of negative repercussions in the afterlfe.

I strongly disagree!

amacachi

applehunter wrote: »

Again I can only speak from personal experience.

Member of my family has attempted suicide on 3 occasions that I know of and every time they have been under the influence of drugs/alcohol.

If I'm prying feel free to say so, but are they addicts? If not and it is the drugs/drink to blame then surely they would've stopped drinking/drugging by now?

MrStuffins

applehunter wrote: »

Again I can only speak from personal experience.

Member of my family has attempted suicide on 3 occasions that I know of and every time they have been under the influence of drugs/alcohol.

Ok. And you think that the drugs/alcohol were the reasons for attempting suicide? Is this right?

ottostreet

eh...to be honest, I'm not really sure. Porridge is involved somehow.

But really, it seems to be more a 'peaceful & spiritual' thing. Meetings are time for introspective thought, ways to better yourself through activities and education, not leading materialistic lives, all the while allowing you to have your own thoughts on religions and the afterlife. It sounds very wishy-washy to me, it sounds basically like a moralistic guideline on how to live your life, if religion isnt your boat. I'd agree with it apart from the fact it has cult-like connotations by its use of words like 'followers' and 'the elders' and stuff like that.

applehunter

MrStuffins wrote: »

Maybe you haven't been able to put across your thoughts as well as you can up until now but so far one of the things you've said is that a cause for suicide is that there is no possibiliy of negative repercussions in the afterlfe.

I strongly disagree!

What are you thoughts?

MrStuffins

applehunter wrote: »

What are you thoughts?

My thoughts on suicide in general or my thoughts on religion as a factor?

applehunter

MrStuffins wrote: »

Ok. And you think that the drugs/alcohol were the reasons for attempting suicide? Is this right?

Well, he's never attempted suicide while he was sober.

applehunter

MrStuffins wrote: »

My thoughts on suicide in general or my thoughts on religion as a factor?

On the thread title.

MrStuffins

applehunter wrote: »

Well, he's never attempted suicide while he was sober.

That's not what I asked

applehunter

MrStuffins wrote: »

That's not what I asked

ok, yes he attempted suicide because he was on drink/drugs.

guitarzero

lestat21 wrote: »

In a way, but not everyone who suffers from depression is at risk of suicide. Everyone on this site seems to think that one leads to another. Clinical depression is one of many factors that might result in someone taking their own life.

In my role as a volunteer, I have heard many distressing stories about suicide and so often, I hear people say we had no idea, they never talked to us about it. Speaking to lads who have survived depression themselves, they had a support there, someone to talk to and someone who listened. That can really make the difference!

Ok. I wouldnt say Depression = Suicide. What I do say is if you are depressed then you are more at risk of suicidal ideation, if that continues then you are more likely to consider suicide.

I honestly believe that if folks who are depressed and suicidal were being heard, loved and accepted then it would be a lot easier. Maybe.

MrStuffins

applehunter wrote: »

On the thread title.

Well we don't have a specifically high suicide rate.

MrStuffins

applehunter wrote: »

ok, yes he attempted suicide because he was on drink/drugs.

You know this for a fact?

I can't tell you he didn't obviously because I have never met the man, but you don't think that the drink and the drugs are an extention/symptom of other underlying problems?

amacachi

Again, are they an addict? If not then surely the fact that they keep drinking/drugging is a symptom of something?

applehunter

amacachi wrote: »

Again, are they an addict? If not then surely the fact that they keep drinking/drugging is a symptom of something?

Yes he is an addict.

amacachi

applehunter wrote: »

Yes he is an addict.

Using drugs or alcohol is a very different matter than addiction to them.

applehunter

amacachi wrote: »

Using drugs or alcohol is a very different matter than addiction to them.

Well I would use the term abusing more than using.

Who's going to be more rational

The guy after 2 pints or the guy after 10

applehunter

Mr. Stuffins you remind me of a guy that was in my class in school. Loved arguing over nothing.

What an annoying bollix he was.

guitarzero

applehunter wrote: »

Mr. Stuffins you remind me of a guy that was in my class in school. Loved arguing over nothing.

What an annoying bollix he was.

I never thought of berating him via proxy! Shiiiiiiit!

krd

People kill themselves for all kinds of reasons.

Personally I think Irish people in general are awful. My family are made up of sneering basstards. Who would take any opportunity to give you a kick while you were down - and go to extreme lengths to show you how much they were enjoying it.

And a lot of Irish people are like that. If you're constantly surrounded by people like that, you could be driven to drink, drugs, and even killing yourself.

If you believed the world was just made up of bolloxy horrible people - eventually you might just kill yourself.

beks101

ILikeBananas wrote: »

I heard a quote before about the two things that Irish people notice when they first go to America:

1. How big the country is
2. How the people there seem to want to tell you everything about themselves

I think this is significant too.

Ireland is a fishbowl to all intents and purposes, it's very easy to feel judgement, criticism, non-acceptance, like all eyes are on you, like you're the subject of 'parish gossip' when things take a turn for the unexpected. That can be very isolating.

Then add to it the residue of the dark ages, good aul Catholic Ireland where mental illness was unmentionable, expressing your feelings was 'weak' and a whole catalogue of fcuked up misconceptions that we're still struggling to shake, and it doesn't exactly make the country an hospitable place for someone who's going through a hard time.

Of course getting lost in the crowds overseas is hardly a guaranteed solution, but at least you have the freedom to be who you want, to do what you want without the same eagle-eye judgement or the result being a reputation as 'John, yer man with depression' etc in your home town.

Then of course you have the pathetic attempt at mental health services in Ireland, but that's an entirely new thread for another day.

guitarzero

I sometimes think it boils down to a lack of sincerity and respect for people. Whenever I hear stories about my parents or other folks parents when they were young, there seemed to be no room for open discussion and sharing feelings about things. It was just the silence and the 'getting on with it'. Then when these people are on there death beds or dying it all starts coming out, the sadness, the nostalgia, the sincerity and heart felt words. Its like an ingrained shame about ones deficiencies and their lackings.

Ever since I encountered foreign folk, be they from spain, france or wherever I always found the fact that you could speak on real terms a bit surreal. Literally saying what you truly thought habitually, having constructive discussions and remain accepted and at times affirmed was a bit strange for me. This is just my experience as an Irish male in the suburbs though.

MrStuffins

applehunter wrote: »

Mr. Stuffins you remind me of a guy that was in my class in school. Loved arguing over nothing.

What an annoying bollix he was.

guitarzero wrote: »

I never thought of berating him via proxy! Shiiiiiiit!

No need for that lads. If you disagree with my points then say so, no need for what you're doing here.