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"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

Flukey

I am just about to bring my new Leap card into the strange world of public transport to test it. There are already several Leap threads going and we've already had some points about its usage raised in them. Maybe we can keep this thread for more specific feedback by the people who have actually got a card and leave the more general discussions on it to the other threads. So if you have some specific feedback from actually using the card put it in here, as briefly as possible. Then we can all use it when we are feeding back our experiences in the questionnaires we are all supposed to be getting. If anything arises here that people would like to discuss in more detail, switch to one of the other threads which already have a broad range of discussion about it that is likely to be relevant. Anyway, my Leap card and I are about to head out. Wish us luck!:D

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Aard

According to their twitter, Leap should have travel 90 tickets enabled in the future.

SandyfordGuy

That is very good news! However the fact that they will be implemented probably means they're no closer to trying to eliminate cash fares and the current fare structure.

Mushy

Had the card checked by luas inspector yesterday. In the morning it took an age to read the card, I thought I would get a fine.

In the evening I got them to scan it again. They asked questions bout it, I explained the mornings scanning. It worked normally at night, they said they had the new scanners. They can see all previous transactions too.
So with the new scanners for inspectors, its all good.

Zwillinge

Have been using it since last Saturday evening, getting communter trains, Dublin Bus and Luas journeys, all working out well. Cheaper rates on the trains and the buses, as I commute from Blanchardstown into the city Centre.

One fumble, probably my own doing, but the card wouldn't read on exit from the train station at one stage and I had that awkward scanning/begging it to work moment with the queue building up behind me

Guy let me through, but it took a chunk of charge from my card, as it believed I went on an epic journey, has this happened to anyone else?

Overall I do like it and I like the design of it too.

SandyfordGuy

With the train hold it so the middle of the card is in the middle of the reader, and with the back side pointing towards the reader and the logo side facing you, I found that works every time after having the problem myself a few times, the bus and luas seems to not be so fussy.

I actually use Luas, Bus and Train at varying intervals and not always the same during the week it's never more than one bus at any one time though, so even though it costs me 30c a bus journey more over using travel 90, for the convenience of not having to keep a LUAS smart card topped up, an Irish rail smart card topped up, and buying a travel 90 every week is a huge improvement for me as I now just need to use one card and manage it all centrally. The amount I spend a week commuting really the max 60c extra a day I pay is virtually nothing and it saves me much more time.

Aard

Day Three... I fear I shall never leave this prison...

DB stole my bus fare!! Or does it count as stealing if the thief has no idea he's doing it? Driver took 2 × €1.85 off the card today. In one transaction btw. So the card goes down on the bullseye at exactly a 90° angle and 65mm from the coin box and held perfectly still. "One-eighty please!" Some text flies up and back down again too fast to read. Though I thought I caught my balance, which was a figure much lower than it should have been, but I wasn't really focussing on it. Then without warning this essay shoots out of the ticket machine: a ticket worth €1.85, and a statement of old and new balance. Only the old balance was €1.85 less than it should have been. This is completely not on.

At this stage I was halfway up the stairs. Even if I had noticed sooner, I wouldn't have said anything to the driver. He was old, and seemed pissed off that he couldn't work the Leap fare. Still though, €3.30 for a bus trip... thank god it's not my money. I know I said last time that I'd use the automatic €2.20 reader in future... I think I will now.

curryman

Aard wrote: »

Then without warning this essay shoots out of the ticket machine: a ticket worth €1.85, and a statement of old and new balance.

I used the card via the driver today. Told him the fare of 1.20. No probs the amount was taken off the card but no ticket issued. When we use the card via the driver are we def ment to get a paper ticket from the machine.

Stevek101

No tickets are issued when you get the fare off the driver. A green light, beep and information about the fare amount/stage is shown. If you receive a ticket that means you've paid for an additional passenger using your ITS purse.

This can be annulled at the request of the driver (once you are in the same fare stage and its under two minutes since the fare was issued).

curryman

Cheers stevek for clearing that up. Got the green light and the info on the display. Never got the beep. Even for a sec or two the driver was unsure if transaction was complete. They should look into a louder beep like you get, when putting the card up to the reader.

AlekSmart

curryman wrote: »

I used the card via the driver today. Told him the fare of 1.20. No probs the amount was taken off the card but no ticket issued. When we use the card via the driver are we def ment to get a paper ticket from the machine.

This definitely appears tpo be catching out passengers and staff alike....

If you get a paper ticket from a Bus Ticket Machine,then you have paid for TWO persons....demand an immediate annulment.

This is,I believe,caused by the lack of audible signal when the Leap validates...and also by the traditional pause by a passenger for that all important ticket.....now no longer issued... :rolleyes:

Stevek101

In fairness a beep is sort of irrelevant. On the other hand the information shown on the screen is paramount. A beep doesn't tell you you've paid a 50c shoppers fare or €2.30 13+ stage fare... Unless of course there is a different tone but that is a different story altogether!

For the drivers: Only press the button once... Did you ever have press the fare button twice before?

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

This definitely appears tpo be catching out passengers and staff alike....

If you get a paper ticket from a Bus Ticket Machine,then you have paid for TWO persons....demand an immediate annulment.

This is,I believe,caused by the lack of audible signal when the Leap validates...and also by the traditional pause by a passenger for that all important ticket.....now no longer issued... :rolleyes:

Could you rally all your fellow drivers and dublin bus comrades to read this thread and the other threads about leap on boards as they will get more information on its operation and use than they seem to be getting from other quarters:)

it seems from people's descriptions that when the driver deducts their smaller fare from the card the confirmation message on screen only flashes up and vanishes as quickly? sorting this out might remove some confusion?

SandyfordGuy

Got my survey last night, it's quite comprehensive and asks all the right questions, so any verified testers should fill it in

The Rook

There seems to be a major disconnect at the moment (granted it's only a test phase I know) with top up agents.
I went into 3 shops this morning to top up my card and they all looked blankly at me going "What's that card?" and "I've never seen that one before" and the best one was "Who issued it? If it's a European Card it won't work here you know"

SandyfordGuy

I wouldn't go as far as saying there is major discontent, I'm quite happy with it overall, but then again it really suits me as I use all three transport methods covered by it and normally have an Irish Rail Smartcard, LUAS smartcard, Travel 90 etc with me. Now I just carry one card and keep it topped up, if I use the bus two times a day it costs me 60C more a day, but considering my commute can cost anywhere from 25-40 euro a week, it's much easier as it's not always the same place where I am.

The whole 30 day bus rail and Luas card doesn't work out any cheaper for me as it's consecutive days. With Leap I don't need to worry about having to keep two cards topped up, and buying a travel 90 a few times a month, which saves me time and I can just top up in one lump sum a month on Leap and not worry about anything else.

LXFlyer

The previous poster said major disconnect, not discontent!!!

Mushy

Used on a bus for the first time yesterday. Driver didnt really know what to do. Tried to just let me on but I had placed card on the validator. He pushed the fare button in hope, green light came on and heard the beep. He thanked me for having an easy first use of it.

The beep could be louder, I was lucky I got on the 63 with no noise.

SandyfordGuy

lxflyer wrote: »

The previous poster said major disconnect, not discontent!!!

My bad! Friday morning blues!

Anyway should have said on the other post and did on the survey, the way it works on Dublin Bus still needs tweaking, with driver interaction and fare strucutre and the suburban yellow/purple readers on Irish Rail are a bit hit and miss with reading the card. No problem on the orange readers at dart stations, Dublin Bus self validators and the Luas ones though.

LXFlyer

I do think that an audible beep is important as everyone then knows that "a fare" has been deducted from the card. I would take Stevek101's point that you need to look at the screen to see what fare has been deducted.

Using oyster in London you get a very audible beep and that at least leaves no one in any doubt.

robd

lxflyer wrote: »

I do think that an audible beep is important as everyone then knows that "a fare" has been deducted from the card. I would take Stevek101's point that you need to look at the screen to see what fare has been deducted.

Using oyster in London you get a very audible beep and that at least leaves no one in any doubt.

I've started hearing the beep from the driver's console the last 2 days although its very very quite. Previous to that I never heard a beep at all. I suspect feedback is getting to the right authorities who have fixed the problem with the beeps being turned off. However its too quite for me with perfect hearing. So for more hard of hearing people or noisy packed buses it will be impossible to hear.

Also as I previously stated passenger screen on console isn't readable. Too small and contrast is low with low lighting. It's also at a very shallow angle mounted on a high platform. So you'd need to be in excess of 6ft to get a proper look. Again I've perfect sight.

I've started noticing the green light flash on the console also.

In all I don't think system of paying at drivers console as it is is workable.

AlekSmart

Stevek101 wrote: »

In fairness a beep is sort of irrelevant. On the other hand the information shown on the screen is paramount. A beep doesn't tell you you've paid a 50c shoppers fare or €2.30 13+ stage fare... Unless of course there is a different tone but that is a different story altogether!

For the drivers: Only press the button once... Did you ever have press the fare button twice before?

With respect Stevek101,the beep is relevant as a marker,a "Hey ! Lookit dis" moment.

However your comment re multiple key strokes is very relevant in the CityCentre Fare Zone context.

This simplest of fares and one which could and should be far more utilized,involves the Busdriver making 4 seperate keystrokes to first leave the main-menu,then enter a sub-menu,issue the Fare,then return to the main-menu,with yet another key-stroke if a Change ticket is required....

All of this in spite of a spare unused direct issue button being available on the machine...?

I have long ago ceased being agog at this particular innovation,but there yiz have it....:rolleyes:

AlekSmart

robd wrote: »

I've started hearing the beep from the driver's console the last 2 days although its very very quite. Previous to that I never heard a beep at all. I suspect feedback is getting to the right authorities who have fixed the problem with the beeps being turned off. However its too quite for me with perfect hearing. So for more hard of hearing people or noisy packed buses it will be impossible to hear.

Also as I previously stated passenger screen on console isn't readable. Too small and contrast is low with low lighting. It's also at a very shallow angle mounted on a high platform. So you'd need to be in excess of 6ft to get a proper look. Again I've perfect sight.

I've started noticing the green light flash on the console also.

In all I don't think system of paying at drivers console as it is is workable.

Sorry Robd,I have to burst your bubble there...the beep you refer to is the standard keystroke beep on the Wayfarer Ticket Machine.

This is a somewhat moveable feast with some units working and lots not.
I understand there is an on/off feature incorporated into the machines but I have never found it.

What is required is a totally seperate and definitive audible warning that a Leap transaction is in process...simple...yes it is.....:rolleyes:

So what I have found is LUAS and DART work very well, with no issues at all.

From what others say, using the reader on the right hand side for a 2.20 ticket works fine.

Most of the problems seem to arise when using leap on the bus drivers machines.

Other then the time I got charged twice on the bus, every other time I've used it, the poor bus drivers look at me in panic, looking and sometimes saying that they haven't a clue how to use it.

I'm sure this will sort itself in time as drivers see it more and get use to it.

However I think even then there will continue to be lots of mistakes made and it does seem to take longer then paying cash, so I think it will lead to increased dwell times.

Today when getting the bus, I noticed three people pay by pre-paid card and pass me on the right hand side while I paid by Leap at the drivers machine!!

I think this shows that a lack of flat fare on buses is the major weakness of this whole process and I fear that the bad experience of Leap on buses will end up giving the public a negative view of Leap.

robd

bk wrote: »

Other then the time I got charged twice on the bus, every other time I've used it, the poor bus drivers look at me in panic, looking and sometimes saying that they haven't a clue how to use it.

I have to say I really don't get this whole pay for more than 1 person on Dublin Bus with your Leap Card. It's not supported by the other 2 operators, it over-complicates things and its open to double/triple charging due to human error.

If you try to validate card on Luas twice it says "Just validated" and doesn't allow it.

Get rid of the extra ticket thing and error out with "Just validated" like Luas and problem goes away.

Superflous to requirements IMO.

robd

OK. Some experience with Luas today.

2 trips, tagged on and tagged off no problems. Topped up with €20 at Luas machine no problems.

Observations:

Validator shows deduction amount and previous balance (before deduction) below this. Why previous balance and not current balance? This makes not sense to me. Wrong way round IMO.

You can only display last 5 or 6 (not sure) transactions on Luas ticket machine. This seems very limited. I know you'll be able to view on website when it goes live but really you should be able to toggle back through the last months transactions.

robd wrote: »

Superflous to requirements IMO.

I see your point, but I'm not sure about that. I use it all the time to pay for my girlfriend :eek:

Also I can see many parents using it to pay for their kids.

It isn't really necessary on LUAS and DART as you can buy a ticket at the machines anyway, via cash, change or credit/debit card. But you might not have change for the bus. I know I won't be carrying change any more now that I have LEAP.

I assume it is actually very easy for drivers to issue a LEAP fare. I assume that they just press the usual 1.25/1.65/1.85, etc. button that they always pressed, just that if a leap card is present the machine automatically deducts the fare from the leap card and doesn't issue the ticket.

So it is only getting drivers to understand that they don't normally have to do anything special for LEAP. They only have to exit the normal screen and go to the leap screen if the person is asking for two fares.

BTW today for the first time, I did notice a green light on the drivers machine when paying for leap.

I hadn't noticed before and I assume it means the fare was registered and you can take the card away.

It certainly helps and it sounds like our feedback here is being taken on board.

SandyfordGuy

From what I was told the feedback from the survey that all validated testers have been sent is going to be analysed and took onboard.

There were lots of questions that covered pretty much everything that has been brought up in this thread from how the driver handled the transaction, were yuu overcharged, if so how often, by how much, if you got any errors on any modre what they were, how well the different types of validators worked, how easy/quick it was to use for each type.

They clearly stated that this will be the feedback they will be using, as they can check our logs as they know what card we have to see if they can resolve it. They are reluctant to take too much feedback from other people because it's harder to verify it.

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

They are reluctant to take too much feedback from other people because it's harder to verify it.

I sent my feedback to customer.care@leapcard.ie and I got a reply thanking me and telling me that it would be passed on for review.

I included my card number and every other detail I had including ID numbers on receipts/tickets, etc.

Will it will be taken on board, I don't know. But the more info the better.

Flukey

I got the e-mail with the survey, but I haven't looked at it yet. I'll probably do it after the weekend. Anyway, I tried to use it on the bus today, with the same uncertainties and problems that have been repeatedly mentioned in the thread. I used it on the DART for the first time, and I had no problems.