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Child Item

Association of Catholic Priests accuses media of being anti-Catholic and anti-priest.

the culture of deference

BOO HOO

The Association of Catholic Priests has accused some sections of the media, including RTE, of being anti-Catholic and anti-priest.

Are we living in father ted land?

What the fcuk is wrong with these fools

"for many years, priest and religious had been reluctant to engage in public debate on issues related to the church because they did not want to add to the suffering of genuine abuse victims,"

Eh no Ted. There was no public debate because you hid all the evidence

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1119/acp.html

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yutta

stimpson wrote: »

I have never voted FF and it been a long time since I turned up for mass.

What's your point?

But you were still part of a society that was led by FF. By your logic, you are just as guilty as Bertie Ahern. And yes, I could smell a mile away that you don't go to Mass - the most opinionated bigots are usually that way.

AudreyHepburn

strobe wrote: »

Yes all of them. If they have nothing to hide, they have nothing to fear.

If a member your company/sporting club etc were found to a child molester would expect all members/employees yourself included to be subjected to trial by media, slander, gross generalisation etc?

No of course you wouldn't and rightfully so.

Ah but the church are different aren't they?

:rolleyes:

stimpson

yutta wrote: »

But you were still part of a society that was led by FF. By your logic, you are just as guilty as Bertie Ahern. And yes, I could smell a mile away that you don't go to Mass - the most opinionated bigots are usually that way.

Just because I live here doesn't mean I'm complicit. If I voluntarily supported FF you may have a point. If I vote for someone else, I'm doing my bit for the resistance.

I don't know how decent people can go to mass considering what has come out about the cover up of child rape by high ranking church officials. I guess many church goers are still in denial.

AudreyHepburn

stimpson wrote: »

All this "what about the good priests" is nonsense. It's like saying, I was a member of the IRA, but I never pulled the trigger.

If you are a member of an organisation that enabled and covered up the rape, torture and sale of children then you have a f*cked up moral compass, regardless of whether you directly took part.

Absolute rubbish!

We are all citizens of Ireland who lead by a government who regularly lied, stole, were so corrupt it beggars belief and brought the economy to its knees.

By your logic we are all to blame for Fianna Fail's failures.

Yet there is neat anarchy when such a notion is suggested.

Yet when it comes to the church it's ok s;ander, generalise and ridicule its members both lay and clergy.

The hypocrisy of your post is laughable.

AudreyHepburn

stimpson wrote: »

Just because I live here doesn't mean I'm complicit. If I voluntarily supported FF you may have a point. If I vote for someone else, I'm doing my bit for the resistance.

I don't know how decent people can go to mass considering what has come out about the cover up of child rape by high ranking church officials. I guess many church goers are still in denial.

EXACTLY.

Just because many of still choose to pray and believe and support those good men and women clergy members does not, as you well know, mean we support child abuse.

We are as disgusted and let down as anyone.

But I'll damned if I am going a minority of sick individuals whose crimes have nothing to with their faith, turn me away from my faith.

Snakeblood

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Absolute rubbish!

We are all citizens of Ireland who lead by a government who regularly lied, stole, were so corrupt it beggars belief and brought the economy to its knees.

By your logic we are all to blame for Fianna Fail's failures.

Yet there is neat anarchy when such a notion is suggested.

Yet when it comes to the church it's ok s;ander, generalise and ridicule its members both lay and clergy.

The hypocrisy of your post is laughable.

Nah, that's blaming atheists for some religious thing. Fianna Fail was an organisation with an ethos, the catholic church is an organisation with an ethos. People join them of their free will and can leave of their free will. Much better analogy than 'Catholic' and 'Citizen'.

stimpson

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

By your logic we are all to blame for Fianna Fail's failures.

Are we all members of Fianna Fail?

The hypocrisy of your post is laughable.

Look up the meaning of the word.

AudreyHepburn

[QUOTE=Snakeblood;75581959]Nah, that's blaming atheists for some religious thing. Fianna Fail was an organisation with an ethos, the catholic church is an organisation with an ethos. People join them of their free will and can leave of their free will. Much better analogy than 'Catholic' and 'Citizen'.[/QUOTE]

That makes absolutly no sense whatsoever.

How did you get that from what I wrote? Or did you even read it?

Ellis Dee

There was nothing anti-Catholic or anti-priest about the RTE defamation of Father Reynolds, who is innocent of any wrongdoing. It was just an abominable example of appallingly bad journalism by irresponsible creeps and a massive failure of oversight by the overpaid executives who should have prevented the cock-up.:rolleyes:

Unfortunately, in addition to the pain it has caused Father Reynolds, it has also given an excuse to the Men in Black to play the victim and continue with their denial of the grievous wrongs that the kiddy-fiddler church has perpetrated down through the decades. They had their day, and I remember it all too well, when the bishops and priests, with that execrable John Charles McQuaid foremost among them, called most of the shots in this country and their stifling effect was felt everywhere in the life of our nation.:eek:

Rather than whining about the wrongs they feel are being done to them, they should tell the Papal Nonce to quit clowning and finally give the Murphy Commission and other authorities the full cooperation they need to find out the true extent of ecclesiastical cover-ups.:D

AudreyHepburn

stimpson wrote: »

Are we all members of Fianna Fail?

Look up the meaning of the word.

I know what it means and expecting one person to be treated in a way yourself would hate to be treated is hyprocritical.

We may not be members but they got into power because the electorate put them there.

Paparazzo

yutta wrote: »

But you were still part of a society that was led by FF. By your logic, you are just as guilty as Bertie Ahern. And yes, I could smell a mile away that you don't go to Mass - the most opinionated bigots are usually that way.

Ohhh, I'd say Jesus would be proud of a comback like that.

strobe

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

If a member your company/sporting club etc were found to a child molester would expect all members/employees yourself included to be subjected to trial by media, slander, gross generalisation etc?

No of course you wouldn't and rightfully so.

Ah but the church are different aren't they?

:rolleyes:

If members of my company/sporting club had been raping kids for decades amongst other hideous acts and it transpired that the management at various levels had known about this and not only did they not report it to the police or sack the perpetrators, they instead covered it up and moved the guilty to other branches to continue what they were doing in secrecy... and that then they deliberately frustrated the states investigation into the abuse...

I would have no problem whatsoever with the company/sporting club existing the rest of it's days under unwavering media and public scrutiny, no problem at all.

But you know as well as I do that if this was Strobe Inc. we were talking about there would be no media spotlight because there would be no Strobe Inc. in existence any more.

This nonsense you are spouting Audrey, consistently, "oh why oh why are the church being treated differently?", is just that, nonsense. The church are being treated no more harshly than any company/sporting club in their position would be and you know that to be an absolute fact. At least be honest.

Snakeblood

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

That makes absolutly no sense whatsoever.

How did you get that from what I wrote? Or did you even read it?

I read it. You were equating stimpsons argument about catholics and the catholic church, with the populace at large and Fianna Fail.

I'm saying 'that's a bad comparison that doesn't make sense. It's intellectually dishonest, when a fairer and more obvious comparison would be 'Fianna Fail Voters and Fianna Fail', and you shouldn't do that'.

stimpson

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

EXACTLY.

Just because many of still choose to pray and believe and support those good men and women clergy members does not, as you well know, mean we support child abuse.

We are as disgusted and let down as anyone.

But I'll damned if I am going a minority of sick individuals whose crimes have nothing to with their faith, turn me away from my faith.

I've no issues with peoples faith. I take issue when people are so blinded by their faith that they can happily support the organisation that caused so much suffering.

If Catholics believe in the words of Jesus, surely they should be providing millstones to the members of the clergy that were complicit. I think Jesus was pretty clear what should happen to people who abused kids.

Mammanabammana

If the priests in question had actually had the balls to disassociate themselves in public from the actions of the institution of the church they wouldn't now be feeling victimised by the media bias (perceived or otherwise). By allowing themselves to be gagged by the official stance of the church and not openly condemning any aspect of the attempted coverups and denials of the church they allowed themselves to be tacitly complicit in that denial. Accessories after the fact.

And if there truly IS an anti church bias in the media (and even if there isn't, there's unquestionably a growing anti church bias in society), they only have themselves to blame. Less than 20 years ago the church were untouchable, they had the government, media and all of society bowing and scraping before them. They are totally and utterly the authors of their own downfall.

Teclo

People should remember that the 'cover-up' took many forms. Yes, there were cowardly bishops(both traditionalists and liberals) who wanted it all to go away for fear that they or the church would be tarnished by association with abusers, or were overly sympathetic to the accused but there were also an over reliance on psychiatric evaluations that said abuse would not happen again, a difficultly in really believing that the claims were true or ignorance of the effect such incidents could have on children.

I know this will be seen as of little significance to victims, and the church has deservedly taken a hit over it, but if we were to be fair we would acknowledge that all these factors can be seen in every other section of society, from lay teachers to sports coaches to families. It is simply no surprise that an international organisation that had so many men who had regular contact with children would include significant numbers who abused or acted inappropriately, and that their superiors did not act in ways that we all now accept is best practice. It is not a Catholic phenomenon.

thebullkf

gigino wrote: »

there is not enough space in jails for them all.

really?

How many are there?

thebullkf

stimpson wrote: »

All this "what about the good priests" is nonsense. It's like saying, I was a member of the IRA, but I never pulled the trigger.

If you are a member of an organisation that enabled and covered up the rape, torture and sale of children then you have a f*cked up moral compass, regardless of whether you directly took part.

Wheres the proof of children being sold?....and tortured..?

thebullkf

strobe wrote: »

If members of my company/sporting club had been raping kids for decades amongst other hideous acts and it transpired that the management at various levels had known about this and not only did they not report it to the police or sack the perpetrators, they instead covered it up and moved the guilty to other branches to continue what they were doing in secrecy... and that then they deliberately frustrated the states investigation into the abuse...

I would have no problem whatsoever with the company/sporting club existing the rest of it's days under unwavering media and public scrutiny, no problem at all.

But you know as well as I do that if this was Strobe Inc. we were talking about there would be no media spotlight because there would be no Strobe Inc. in existence any more.

This nonsense you are spouting Audrey, consistently, "oh why oh why are the church being treated differently?", is just that, nonsense. The church are being treated no more harshly than any company/sporting club in their position would be and you know that to be an absolute fact. At least be honest.

something like 92% (could be wrong) in a report published last year of people abuse where abused by NON-clergy... are they in the papers???

no- church has money = Media frenzy = Pay up.

boils down to money.:(

strobe

thebullkf wrote: »

something like 92% (could be wrong) in a report published last year of people abuse where abused by NON-clergy... are they in the papers???

Yes. All the time. Have you never read a newspaper or something?

thebullkf

Teclo wrote: »

People should remember that the 'cover-up' took many forms. Yes, there were cowardly bishops(both traditionalists and liberals) who wanted it all to go away for fear that they or the church would be tarnished by association with abusers, or were overly sympathetic to the accused but there were also an over reliance on psychiatric evaluations that said abuse would not happen again, a difficultly in really believing that the claims were true or ignorance of the effect such incidents could have on children.

I know this will be seen as of little significance to victims, and the church has deservedly taken a hit over it, but if we were to be fair we would acknowledge that all these factors can be seen in every other section of society, from lay teachers to sports coaches to families. It is simply no surprise that an international organisation that had so many men who had regular contact with children would include significant numbers who abused or acted inappropriately, and that their superiors did not act in ways that we all now accept is best practice. It is not a Catholic phenomenon.

excellent post. unlike the hysterical bile eminating from the anti church brigade prevalent on boards.

FWIW- i don't go to Mass, don't practice religion.

thebullkf

strobe wrote: »

Yes. All the time. Have you never read a newspaper or something?

GTFO:rolleyes:

strobe

thebullkf wrote: »

GTFO:rolleyes:

What?

Non-clergy child abuse cases are reported in the national newspapers all the time.

stimpson

thebullkf wrote: »

Wheres the proof of children being sold?....and tortured..?

Can't you use google?

http://www.thejournal.ie/un-committee-hears-vast-majority-of-women-entered-magdalene-laundries-voluntarily-or-with-consent-143108-May2011/

thebullkf

strobe wrote: »

What?

Non-clergy child molesters are reported in the national newspapers all the time.

12 x times the amount of clergy are proven abusers.....yet its church church church...

i don't see 12 x times the coverage, do you?

strobe

thebullkf wrote: »

12 x times the amount of clergy are proven abusers.....yet its church church church...

i don't see 12 x times the coverage, do you?

Most of the coverage tends to be about the official cover up, the lack of payment of compensation, the failure to co-operate with the states investigations etc. There is simply more to report in the churches case than in isolated incidents of inter-family abuse for example. It's a running story.

Anita M.

gigino wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2054674/Roman-Catholic-churchs-paedophile-investigator-jailed-possessing-thousnds-child-porn-images.html

"Roman Catholic church's paedophile investigator jailed for possessing thousands of child porn images" No mention of that on RTE

banks can crossrefer the payments with the code send in on payment with the details of the receiver of the payments and thus they can catch loads of pedo downloaders or uploaders. But the gardai are too lazy to ask the banks for a search like that. Germany did such a search and on one bankaccount traced found over 300 sex offenders.

thebullkf

stimpson wrote: »

Can't you use google?

http://www.thejournal.ie/un-committee-hears-vast-majority-of-women-entered-magdalene-laundries-voluntarily-or-with-consent-143108-May2011/

can't you read?.... no mention of child selling in that article. (which you stated)

no mention of Torture in that article (albeit working for free is)- though that could be construed as doing their bit for bed and board, and i am in no way defending it.

Hindsight is wonderful. wasn't so long ago that husbands raped their wives-legally and nothing done about it-

And why aren't the "parents" of these kids being lambasted?

cos they're either dead or broke, and pay back is sought, if the church were poor then they wouldn't be in news half/third as much.

People baying for churches blood have short memories, a significant minority committed these atrocities, yet many are tarnished.

the work they do far outweighs the evils committed.

you know this.

thebullkf

strobe wrote: »

Most of the coverage tends to be about the official cover up, the lack of payment of compensation, the failure to co-operate with the states investigations etc. There is simply more to report in the churches case than in isolated incidents of inter-family abuse for example. It's a running story.

cos people keep popping outta the woodwork looking for money.

be they victims,lawyers,editors etc.

disgusting is too soft a word for it.

its also a nice distraction from the systematic rape and pillage of our land,country,sovereignty, and identity currently ongoing, but thats a different kettle of fish.

Anita M.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Pedophile-priest-flees-back-to-Ireland-where-he-is-a-free-man-92147629.html Here i finally found one of a priest in between all the others, hard to find.