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Who thinks Sean Quinn is a great businessman now?

lazygal

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1111/breaking26.html

Declared bankrupt in Northern Ireland today. I hope all of those who defended him as a great businessman who did so much for his home region cop on now and recognise how much damage his speculation did to the country.

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Kasabian

Ronin247 wrote: »

I would defend most of what Sean Quinn is doing,and would do the exact same thing if in that position.

Quinn bought a load of Anglo shares,based on a set of cooked books which no one has been prosecuted for cooking!

Anglo goes bump due to a property bubble bursting and the madness of a government letting banks lend at up to 10x salary for a mortgage,and still no prosecutions.

Lenihan and Cowen say "oh ok the country will accept these debts because our friends are bondholders and it would look bad to the Germans if we didnt pay a PRIVATE companies debts.

Sean Quinn never took one cent of your money.His PRIVATE company owed another PRIVATE company a sh*t load of money. Our government assumed these debts to please Europe.

If you want to blame someone look no further than our political system.

I am not from Cavan and none of my family work for Quinn.

Jesus, what about individual responsibility.Greed is the fault, plain simple fcuking greed. While these tossers play russian roulette it's our fcuking heads the bullets are lodging in.

The attitude of "beholding" that permiates in this thread makes me sick. I couldn't care less what Sean Quinn done that was good, the net result of his meglomania is that I am out of pocket to fill the gaps he created while he hides his money in his children's name.

Fcuk him and those that fall at his feet.

desertcircus

Ronin247 wrote: »

I would defend most of what Sean Quinn is doing,and would do the exact same thing if in that position.

Quinn bought a load of Anglo shares,based on a set of cooked books which no one has been prosecuted for cooking!

Anglo goes bump due to a property bubble bursting and the madness of a government letting banks lend at up to 10x salary for a mortgage,and still no prosecutions.

Lenihan and Cowen say "oh ok the country will accept these debts because our friends are bondholders and it would look bad to the Germans if we didnt pay a PRIVATE companies debts.

Sean Quinn never took one cent of your money.His PRIVATE company owed another PRIVATE company a sh*t load of money. Our government assumed these debts to please Europe.

If you want to blame someone look no further than our political system.

I am not from Cavan and none of my family work for Quinn.

Except, you know, he took a 288million loan from Anglo to buy shares in Anglo. And was fined two hundred thousand quid personally for violating the law. And owes two thousand eight hundred million euro to Anglo Irish Bank, which is now owed to us. And that since the nationalisation of Anglo, he's continued to avoid paying what he owes. And that he's used every single loophole he can find to avoid paying the money he owes.

If it remained entirely private, I'd be utterly disgusted. The fact that he's continued with his behaviour after it became clear that every penny he didn't pay was a penny taken from us just compounds my disgust and shifts him from being merely regularly horrible to being utterly repulsive and a towering disgrace to his country.

Killer Pigeon

lazygal wrote: »

He broke the rules associated with running an insurance company and invested far too heavily in one bank, Anglo, to the detriment of his other businesses. That's fact, not begrudery.

Since Quinn began business he created thousands of jobs all over the country and created an enterprise worth about 5 billion. The biggest mistake he make was to invest in Anglo. When the bust came, he lost billions in shares! In order to sustain most of those jobs he had created, he had to take out a massive loan.

Yes, he make a mistake by investing in Anglo, we all make mistakes. Those who decided to take 100% mortgages during the boom made a mistake too. Nobody's perfect. However, it's terribly disingenuous to turn a blind eye to all the good thing Quinn has done over the past 30 years and paint him as a crook like those bankers who got his business and other people in the rest of the country into the mess they're in in the first place.

oldyouth

Ronin247 wrote: »

I would defend most of what Sean Quinn is doing,and would do the exact same thing if in that position.

Quinn bought a load of Anglo shares,based on a set of cooked books which no one has been prosecuted for cooking!

Anglo goes bump due to a property bubble bursting and the madness of a government letting banks lend at up to 10x salary for a mortgage,and still no prosecutions.

Lenihan and Cowen say "doh ok the country will accept these debts because our friends are bondholders and it would look bad to the Germans if we didnt pay a PRIVATE companies debts.

Sean Quinn never took one cent of your money.His PRIVATE company owed another PRIVATE company a sh*t load of money. Our government assumed these debts to please Europe.

If you want to blame someone look no further than our political system.

I am not from Cavan and none of my family work for Quinn.

TOTAL head in the sand parish pump explanation. That wanker, along with the others that he competed with to be top dog, is the reason that my (and many other) children have to emigrate to lead a normal fulfilled life. Greed mixed with incompetence brought him to where he is

Geekness1234

lazygal wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1111/breaking26.html

Declared bankrupt in Northern Ireland today. I hope all of those who defended him as a great businessman who did so much for his home region cop on now and recognise how much damage his speculation did to the country.

Obviously not you Lazygal.

desertcircus

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Since Quinn began business he created thousands of jobs all over the country and created an enterprise worth about 5 billion. The biggest mistake he make was to invest in Anglo. When the bust came, he lost billions in shares! In order to sustain most of those jobs he had created, he had to take out a massive loan.

Yes, he make a mistake, we all make mistakes. Those who decided to take 100% mortgages during the boom make a mistake too. Nobody's perfect. However, it's terribly disingenuous to turn a blind eye to all the good thing Quinn has done over the past 30 years.

This is outright lunacy. He didn't "make a mistake", he made a legally questionable investment and is currently trying to avoid paying the bill for what he agreed to. He's engaged in behaviour that may be illegal, and is definitely repulsively immoral. He's trying to avoid paying the 2.8bn he owes while people are watching public spending shrink and taxes rise.

If he'd handed everything over the moment Anglo was nationalised, then maybe - just maybe - I'd have a smidgen of respect for him. As it is, though, none whatsoever. He burned through nearly three billion quid, is trying to hide everything he can from the people he owes money to, and is sticking everything he can into family members' names.

keysersoze0330

I'd safely say the man has millions stashed away

evolving_doors

If he had Gambled 2.8 Billion and won would we have ever shared in this booty...not a chance..

Same as all these other bankers and developers, if their gambles had paid off would the nation have benefited...not a chance.. only 'benefit' would have been back page of Sunday Indo living .. handy for lighting the fire

As always it's like that line in fiddler on the roof

"when you're rich they think you really know"

44leto

He rolled a dice and he lost, that makes him unfortunate.

He behaving like a good business man now by declaring himself bankrupt in the UK, it also makes him a cutn.

Its going to be difficult to get any of that 2.8 billion of now taxpayers money back.

woodoo

Ronin247 wrote: »

I would defend most of what Sean Quinn is doing,and would do the exact same thing if in that position.

Quinn bought a load of Anglo shares,based on a set of cooked books which no one has been prosecuted for cooking!

Anglo goes bump due to a property bubble bursting and the madness of a government letting banks lend at up to 10x salary for a mortgage,and still no prosecutions.

Lenihan and Cowen say "oh ok the country will accept these debts because our friends are bondholders and it would look bad to the Germans if we didnt pay a PRIVATE companies debts.

Sean Quinn never took one cent of your money.His PRIVATE company owed another PRIVATE company a sh*t load of money. Our government assumed these debts to please Europe.

If you want to blame someone look no further than our political system.

I am not from Cavan and none of my family work for Quinn.

Its sean and the family transferring their assets to safely and knowingly leaving it to the Irish taxpayer to pay. They sicken me beyond belief.

Killer Pigeon

desertcircus wrote: »

This is outright lunacy. He didn't "make a mistake", he made a legally questionable investment"

How is it illegal for a private company to purchase shares in another company? It happens every day of the week and is an integral part of modern commerce.

desertcircus wrote: »

...and is currently trying to avoid paying the bill for what he agreed to. He's engaged in behaviour that may be illegal, and is definitely repulsively immoral.

I am fully supportive of him not paying the money back. He invested HIS OWN money in Anglo and those gobshites in Anglo with their risky dealing on the global market lost the money he had entrusted them. He took out the loan he owes so that his thousands of employees could remain in their jobs after he lost his shares. Anglo are the ones who should pay. Not him. It's time for the bankers to pay the price, not people who try to make an honest livings.

Anyway, it probably virtually impossible for him to pay it back now, the sum is so large. So either way, if he declared bankruptcy or not, the money would not be paid back. Simples.

Guy:Incognito

Galtee wrote: »

I still think he's a great business man. He did you a favour, when you've built up your own multi billion euro group then you can learn from his mistakes and not lose it all.

Its much easier to build up that group when you dont play by the rules.

Insurance companies have to have X amount to back up possible claims. He just didnt bother his hole doing that. Everyone could operate a "successful" usiness like that.

Ronin247

desertcircus wrote: »

This is outright lunacy. He didn't "make a mistake", he made a legally questionable investment and is currently trying to avoid paying the bill for what he agreed to. He's engaged in behaviour that may be illegal, and is definitely repulsively immoral. He's trying to avoid paying the 2.8bn he owes while people are watching public spending shrink and taxes rise.

If he'd handed everything over the moment Anglo was nationalised, then maybe - just maybe - I'd have a smidgen of respect for him. As it is, though, none whatsoever. He burned through nearly three billion quid, is trying to hide everything he can from the people he owes money to, and is sticking everything he can into family members' names.

He may have made a legally questionable investment but it was based on a set of false accounts with the banks shifting billions over and back between them.

Head in the sand and parish pump politics are nice accusations.The people voted the clowns into office and refuse to see that our own politicians are the ones who fcuked it up.387,000 still went out and voted for Fianna Fail,therein lies the problem.We refuse to see our own government did this to us.NO ONE ELSE and you voted them in.....

steve9859

syklops wrote: »

We lost a lot of things during the boom, but its nice to see we didnt lose everything. Things like begrudgery and the delight we have at seeing people who tried, fail.

Stay proud lazygal.

He didn't 'try'! He scammed. Running an insurance company without making any loss provisions doesn't sound much like trying to run a successful company to me! The insurance co was screwed even without the Anglo investment

44leto

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

How is it illegal for a private company to purchase shares in another company? It happens every day of the week and is an integral part of modern commerce.

I am fully supportive of him not paying the money back. He invested HIS OWN money in Anglo and those gobshites in Anglo with their risky dealing on the global market lost the money he had entrusted them. He took out the loan he owes so that his thousands of employees could remain in their jobs after he lost his shares. Anglo are the ones who should pay. Not him. It's time for the bankers to pay the price, not people who try to make an honest livings.

Anyway, it probably virtually impossible for him to pay it back now, the sum is so large.

He invested money from the funds he needed to make his insurance company viable, that is why he lost the company, that was illegal.

Callan57

I don't gloat at his misfortune but I do wish he's stuck to the business he knew.

keysersoze0330

Callan57 wrote: »

I don't gloat at his misfortune but I do wish he's stuck to the business he knew.

Its our misfortune, he's still a very rich man bankruptcy or not.

44leto

Callan57 wrote: »

I don't gloat at his misfortune but I do wish he's stuck to the business he knew.

Same here, he was a good employer, he did bring some competition into that market, but he lost it all through some ill advised speculation.

Err well it may turn out we lost it through some book cooking and hiding assets.

Killer Pigeon

woodoo wrote: »

Its sean and the family transferring their assets to safely and knowingly leaving it to the Irish taxpayer to pay. They sicken me beyond belief.

When did he take the loan out of Anglo. Was it before or after the Anglo was nationalised. If he happened before Anglo was nationalised, then he did not intend to leave any onus on the taxpayer.

But the thing is, he wouldn't have been able to pay back the 2.8 billion in the first place.

These are the options he had after if these scenarios happened after the bank guarantee;
(a) No money to keep thousands of employees in their jobs. Don't take out loan. Can't pay employees. They all lose their jobs.
(b) No money to keep thousands of employees in their jobs. Take out massive loan. Bank gets nationalised. Responsibility to keep these thousands of employees now falls on government who help fuck the country up in the first place.

Which would you choose?

desertcircus

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

How is it illegal for a private company to purchase shares in another company? It happens every day of the week and is an integral part of modern commerce.

I am fully supportive of him not paying the money back. He invested HIS OWN money in Anglo and those gobshites in Anglo with their risky dealing on the global market lost the money he had entrusted them. He took out the loan he owes so that his thousands of employees could remain in their jobs after he lost his shares. Anglo are the ones who should pay. Not him. It's time for the bankers to pay the price, not people who try to make an honest livings.

Anyway, it probably virtually impossible for him to pay it back now, the sum is so large. So either way, if he declared bankruptcy or not, the money would not be paid back. Simples.

1. It's illegal for an insurance company to break the rules governing insurance companies, which Quinn did in that purchase. That's why the company was fined millions and Quinn himself was on the hook for a six-figure sum. And why he publicly accepted that it was wrong and a violation of the rules.

2. It was not his money. He accepted a 288m loan from Anglo in order to buy shares in Anglo - and a company making loans in order to enable people to buy shares in said company is a big no-no. He would have known this, given that it's one of the basic rules of company law.

3. He could pay some of the money he owes and maintain a modicum of dignity. Instead he hands four hundred million quid - a sum of money equivalent to 1,500 annual average salaries in this country - to his immediate family, knowing that it puts it outside the bankruptcy proceedings against him. Pretending that there's no point in paying any because he can't pay all of it is bollocks. Simples.

Guy:Incognito

DB10 wrote: »

Blame Fianna Gael and the ending Fianna Fail government. You voted for them, so you cant complain.

But not Labour?

Killer Pigeon

steve9859 wrote: »

He didn't 'try'! He scammed. Running an insurance company without making any loss provisions doesn't sound much like trying to run a successful company to me! The insurance co was screwed even without the Anglo investment

Hmmmm, was the insurance company the only company he had? Hmmmm, if all went down the toilet would it be just the insurance company that would be effect. No. It would be the entire Quinn Group that would be effected, not just Quinn Direct.

Killer Pigeon

desertcircus wrote: »

1. It's illegal for an insurance company to break the rules governing insurance companies, which Quinn did in that purchase. That's why the company was fined millions and Quinn himself was on the hook for a six-figure sum. And why he publicly accepted that it was wrong and a violation of the rules.

Since when was the Quinn Group an Insurance company?

desertcircus

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Since when was the Quinn Group an Insurance company?

In 2008, Quinn Insurance was levied a record €3.25 million fine from the Financial Regulator in the Republic of Ireland with Seán Quinn personally being fined €200,000. These fines were related to loans issued from Quinn Insurance to an associated company that he controlled. "These loans breached insurance regulations and as a result of this the Financial Regulator has sanctioned Quinn Insurance and myself. I accept complete responsibility for this breach of regulation."

From Wikipedia.

Sticky_Fingers

Callan57 wrote: »

I don't gloat at his misfortune but I do wish he's stuck to the business he knew.

Whats business is that, Three Card Monte? I'd say he did stick to it and made a killing out of us peasants who are'nt wealthy or powerful enough to avoid paying our debts.

Kasabian

Success = Bankruptcy

Bankruptcy = get someone else to pay your liabilities.

They need to re-write the business manuals.

Dempsey

His business dealings in Ireland should have a factor on his bankruptcy proceedings all things considered. He has gotten away with alot more than he should have

Killer Pigeon

desertcircus wrote: »

In 2008, Quinn Insurance was levied a record €3.25 million fine from the Financial Regulator in the Republic of Ireland with Seán Quinn personally being fined €200,000. These fines were related to loans issued from Quinn Insurance to an associated company that he controlled. "These loans breached insurance regulations and as a result of this the Financial Regulator has sanctioned Quinn Insurance and myself. I accept complete responsibility for this breach of regulation."

From Wikipedia.

Further to what you were saying, if he only accepted a loan of €288 million and using that loan invested in Anglo shares, how did he loose over €2 billion? Surely if he only took out €288 million of a loan, he would only have to pay that money back. How did he loose over €2 billion? There a big difference between €288 million and €2 billion.

overshoot

didnt bother reading most of the posts but in response to the op yes i still do respect him. he started with a second hand truck and how thanks to him thousands are still employed in the border area which the governent couldnt give a shit about. even if he does owe 2.8 billion, how much more has gone into the border economy through his jobs? how much was paid in tax before it went tits up? how many of these jobs would have been created without him?
to sum up id still say he has contributed more than he has cost us

desertcircus

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Further to what you were saying, if he only accepted a loan of €288 million and using that loan invested in Anglo shares, how did he loose over €2 billion? Surely if he only took out €288 million of a loan, he would only have to pay that money back. How did he loose over €2 billion? There a big difference between €288 million and €2 billion.

That was after he invested a couple of billion in buying up somewhere between 15% and 25% of the bank. When Anglo's share price dropped, he was loaned 288m by the bank in order to buy up shares in the form of CFDs to shore up the share price. That's where a huge chunk of the loss was.

The other part of his debts are the loans he personally guaranteed with Anglo. Since they started demanding repayment on those loans, he's engaged in a game of catch-me-if-you-can - the liquidator has accused Quinn of selling $193m worth of assets in Russia to a cousin, Peter Quinn, for a thousand quid and a laptop, to take one example.

He took out huge loans and made personal guarantees on them. now those guarantees are being called in and he's doing everything he can to avoid doing what he agreed to do in the first place. Every penny he and his family still have at the end of these proceedings is money stolen from people on the breadline in this country; children with special educational needs; businesses who have to deal with higher taxes.

As I've said, if he handed over everything once it became clear that his debts were going to become public, then I'd have some respect for him. He didn't, though, and people are going to go hungry, go cold, go without the teaching assistance they need, go without the medical treatment they need - because he's unwilling to do what he agreed to in the first place. Scum.