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Husband loves best friend more than me?

  • 26-10-2011 12:27pm
    #1
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    This is probably a strange one but I'm hoping if I write it down I may get this off my mind. I'm hoping someone may have experience with this kind of situation.

    I've been married to my husband for 8 years. We have a 4 year old daughter. My husband and I were together for a year before marrying. I was 25 when we married and probably quite young and naive. I was swept away in a perfect romance and had no idea what marriage was about, it was hard in the early days but I have adapted and overall am happy. My husband is 8 years older than me and has far more life experience.

    Throughout our marriage there is one thing that nags in the back of my mind and I'm not sure how I should handle it. My husband's best male friend is so much a part of his life that he may as well be the third person in our marriage. I’ve overheard my husband tell his friend “After my child, you are the most important person in my world.” This isn’t said directly in front of me of course. But inside I’m thinking – what about me? If I was to confront him on this he would tell me he’s just saying it to make his messed up friend feel better, but I see how he looks at his friend and how deep their bond is and I know in my heart he means every word.

    I've learned to turn a blind eye to it to help me to cope and in general we all get along fine but it's been dug up again in the past few days and is playing on my mind constantly.

    My sister came to stay last week and was "horrified" by the relationship I "allow" my husband and his friend to have.

    My husband and his friend have known each other since childhood.

    It is not a friendship I have ever seen two men share before and while I have had doubts in the past my husband has made it clear that nobody will ever come between their friendship so I have to put up with it. He made this clear from our early days going out so I can't say I didn't know what I was getting into. I just had no idea how serious he was about their bond.

    My husband is from a well off background. His best friend is (don't mean this badly) a psychological wreck from a bad background. He was sexually and physically abused throughout his childhood and seems to have carried every possible mental disorder into adulthood. He is not the kind of person I would want anything to do with by choice and I would never choose to have our child around someone who's had such a messy past.

    To make matters worse our child sees him like some kind of second father as she spends so much time with him and my husband. I don’t want her getting so attached to someone who could end up taking his life or falling off the wagon again at any time, though it's probably too late as she seems to love him dearly.

    The best friend is 39 now but from his teens to the age of around 30 he was addicted to every drug that exists including heroin. He slept with anyone that would look at him, male and female. He self harmed, he put himself into situations over and over to allow himself to be abused. I won't pretend to understand his behaviour as I have no experience of this and don't like drugs or the world that goes with it. He is the last person in the world I would choose to have in my life though I didn’t realise just how messed up he was until after I got married. My husband kindly describes him as “extremely fragile, tortured and sensitive.” My husband is treated like a total hero by his friend.

    All the way through his mess ups my husband remains his best friend. The friend confides in my husband about everything in his head and my husband is like some kind of always-there psychologist for him. The friend ended up overdosing on a cocktail of drugs (heroin, coke, alcohol, pills) shortly before I met my husband, actually died but his heart was restarted, and ran up hundreds of thousands of euro of medical bills, rehab bills, drugs debts etc.

    All of this was paid off my by husband. To be fair to the friend he is well on the way to paying back my husband now but I think it was unfair for my husband to have to pick up this tab to begin with but I learned to keep my mouth shut on this after being put in my place on the matter when we were first together.

    The friend eventually got clean and my husband would only set a wedding date that would allow his friend to be best man. I felt sometimes that the wedding was more of a deadline for his friend to get better and have something to aim for than a day about me and my husband.

    We thought him getting clean would be the end of our problems but he continued to let everyone down in the years that followed.

    My husband and I had a lot of problems in the first 2 years of marriage but did counselling and worked through it. I felt as though the friend should have just attended counselling as so much of it revolved around him. Everything that happens in our life, my husband will confide in his friend. My husband says he is his rock, that the friend can always offer him unbiased advice and listen. I don’t feel he should be confiding in a friend, that is surely my place.

    I have asked my husband how he would feel if I had a female friend that I discussed my every fear and worry with, the intimate details of our sex life, and he’s told me he wishes I did have that so I could understand how important a best friend is. I think that when you’re married, while it’s okay to go for occasional pints with your friend, the level of friendship he has is completely inappropriate. He blames my issues with his friendship on the fact that I don’t really have any female friends other than my sister and she lives a long way from us.

    After a period of good behaviour from the friend he developed an eating disorder which again had my husband stuck in the middle of it, having to take care of him, constantly worrying about him and thinking about how to make him better again. This was all during the early part of our marriage and was constant stress. All my husband wanted to talk about was his friend’s journey, or medical stuff, and I just didn’t want to hear any more about him or his life.

    Counselling did eventually get my husband and I spending more time together and having the friend less involved in our life but I feel now like we're heading back to where we started.

    After the friend dealt with his issues and mental problems, he went on to rush into a marriage, have a baby, his wife then ended the marriage as he wasn't clear about how messed up he is (this all happened over a short time period), a nervous breakdown followed and more hospital stays, he sorted himself out but the ex refuses to let him see the child, and all of that has thrown him back into my husband's life more than ever for the past 2 years.

    The friend is like a rollercoaster. I've long since lost count of how many times he's turned up at our door at 3 or 4 in the morning crying his eyes out wanting my husband to console him over problems with the ex, near drug relapses, hearing voices in his head, self harming.

    The overdose has left him as a kind of socially awkward character and I find it embarrassing to have him around for family functions or Christmas time or that kind of thing, because my family have expressed concerns over why my husband would want to be around someone like him, why I allow him to be in our daughter's life, etc.

    When I’ve begged my husband to end his relationship with this man, he has ended up breaking down in tears at the thought of not having the friend in his life, and this is just not normal no matter how much I try to convince myself it is.

    Of the past 18 months the friend has surprisingly been very good (free of nervous breakdowns and problematic behaviour) but that's only because he's got his way, he's with my husband constantly. My husband sees this as the friend now being cured, finally on track, and thinks it’s okay to have him around all the time now. Given his history, I just see it as a matter of time before he's back in a mental hospital again and causing our world continuous grief.

    My husband jokingly calls him 'my girlfriend' and while all of their long time friends never stop praising my husband for nursing his friend back to health so many times, I'm the one left suffering.

    My husband seems attracted to helping others, he is a wonderful man, he volunteers with a number of agencies like the Samaritans and has done since long before we met, and he is a wonderful father but I feel like I’m forgotten about amongst all this ‘wonderful’. He employs a number of people in a charity job and the best friend has worked for him since his late teens through all of the drug abuse etc. Because they work together, the friend spends a lot more time with my husband than I do.

    My sister's reaction was prompted by her entering my home while I was out to find my husband lying under a duvet on our couch watching TV with his best friend lying under the duvet next to him.

    We are not used to that kind of affection between males but because I have to see this almost every day I've had to learn to accept it. When I’ve asked my husband to stop, he just does it during the hours I’m at work and not there to see it instead. He has altered his work hours to conveniently spend more time with the friend alone. This means less time with me.

    They hug constantly; my husband will always give his friend a quick squeeze around the waist or rub his arm as he walks past him. He doesn’t do this with me. They tell each other they love each other as friends every day. On the nights the friend decides to go home rather than waiting over, my husband will walk him to his car and hug him goodnight.

    All of his friends see it as adorable and see my husband as a saint for getting his friend’s life back on track. The friend regularly says that there were dozens of times he’d have taken his life or given up if not for my husband. He has no family (they sided with the sexual abuser who was a family member) and his other friends were all drug addicts so he doesn’t see them anymore. He doesn’t need anyone else because my husband is everything for him.

    I’m sure the friend resents me and wishes I never entered my husband’s life. He was very cautious of me in the early days but for my husband’s sake I attempted to build a relationship with the friend and we got along well for a while though I feel I really have to try as his past makes him someone I could never trust or choose to be in my life.

    It was okay, then my husband stupidly told his friend about an argument we had where I asked my husband to distance himself from the friend, something I feel was perfectly acceptable as nobody should put more emphasis on a friendship ahead of their partner. For the years since, I feel the friend resents me. We’re civil to each other but he wouldn’t spend a second in my company if my husband is not around. We rarely talk to each other apart from short polite exchanges.

    One of the problems my husband and I had was that I'm not very interested in sex, it's just the way I am and I can't change that. Sex has felt like a chore a lot of the time and while I love him very much, I would be happier if sex wasn't so important to him. That's not what I want advice on here, but I think it's a factor. My husband rarely hugs me anymore, and I kind of feel like he's diverted a lot of the attention I should have to his friend. We share a bed but he’ll roll far away from me. On many occasions he’s fallen asleep watching TV next to his friend and he’s seemed so much happier to sleep there snuggled up to him for the night than to share my bed.

    Why should I play second fiddle to his friend? My sister has made me feel like a fool for putting up with this and she is completely convinced there is more than friendship between them. The friend was bisexual until cleaning up his ways around the time I first met him, I don’t know much about this. When I was first introducing my husband to friends they all assumed he was gay by some of his mannerisms. He's never offended by this, he'll just laugh it off.

    In the early days of our relationship when the friend was going through treatment from his overdose my husband mentioned that the friend has a crush on him and even still he'll sometimes joke with the friend about this, like "I'm going out with my wife tonight for dinner, does that make you jealous?" and the friend will always blush about this and be very clearly embarrassed telling him to stop. My husband gets a kick out of this. He'll say it in front of me and we'll laugh but it worries me.

    Maybe if there wasn't a history of bisexuality in the friend, this wouldn't be as big an issue for me, but I have to question why my husband would allow himself to get so close to someone that can be attracted to him. Surely if this friendship was with a female, it would be totally inappropriate and if the friend is bi, is it not the same scenario?

    The friend is a very good looking guy, extremely youthful and handsome, and while I know he deeply loves my husband, I probably feel deep down that he is IN love with him. He has not pursued another relationship since his marriage break-up because he doesn’t want or need anyone other than my husband in his life.

    My husband regularly describes his friend as ‘beautiful’ but rarely says this about me anymore compared to the early years. If the friend is dressed up to go somewhere my husband will always go over the top to compliment him, and while I’m led to believe that it’s to make the friend feel better about himself as he’s extremely insecure, I see how my husband looks at him and how proud he is of him, and it scares me.

    They had very wild party years together and the friend has jokingly talked about how they shared drunken kisses in the past though it seemed more like a drunken dare scenario, and knowing the friend he’d have thrown himself at my husband when drunk/drugged without any moves on my husband’s part. My husband is completely open minded towards gay people while I have never been around gay people much.

    Do I have the right to ask my husband if anything has gone on between them in the past? This is the one thing I feel I need to know. If something has happened, then I am putting my foot down once and for all and making my husband choose between me and our daughter, or the friend. The problem is I honestly feel he probably would choose the friend over me. He is a fantastic father and our daughter is far more attached to my husband than she would be to me, he takes her with him (and the friend) to work a lot and spends more time with her than I can. I don’t want to take him away from her but I can’t handle this friendship any longer.

    I know this is all over the place and very long but I really need advice on what I should do. When we discussed this in the past my husband felt I should be thankful that his best friend is male as I had insecurity with him having female friends in the past and he cut these women out of his life (he sent flirty texts to one particular woman and she responded with nude photos), he blamed me for lack of sexual interest in him and said he texted this woman for an ego boost, we worked through it in counselling and rebuilt the trust and he no longer has contact with any women in that way.

    But maybe by stopping him from having female friends all I did was drive him even closer to his best male friend? :(


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Comments

  • #2
    Miss Fluff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭Miss Fluff


    God that makes for such sad reading, you poor thing :(
    brokenwife wrote: »
    Do I have the right to ask my husband if anything has gone on between them in the past? This is the one thing I feel I need to know.

    Do you have the right? You're his WIFE, you have every right. My emphasis wouldn't so much be what's gone on in the past and rather what the fuck is going on now though. There's a whole litany of inappropriate behaviour as well as you feeling like a third wheel in your own marriage. I think your husband is being very cruel and I think his buddy is a master manipulator.

    Personally I don't know how you've stuck it this long. While nobody here can possibly say whether they are conducting a relationship under your nose, your sister does have your best interests at heart and the fact that she is convinced something is going on speaks volumes.

    It IS time to confront this but be prepared for the fall-out and him choosing this bloke over you - I think it's pretty clear that's what he's going to be doing....


  • #3
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Thanks for your input jacklad but that's really not very helpful to me and not the kind of 'advice' I'm looking for.

    My sister does not know the full extent of this friendship and I feel I am a better judge of it being inside it. She doesn't realise all the years of hassles that have taken place and is generally not a fan of my husband since I told her about him texting someone else many years ago. It's hard for her to offer unbiased advice.

    In my heart, I genuinely don't believe there is anything deeper going on between them other than an abnormally strong friendship.

    I know that my husband was the only person who sat for months by his friend's side when he was in ICU and it upset my husband deeply that his friend's family never once came to see him or ask if he was alive. My husband has told me he felt he let his friend down when they were kids as his friend had confided in him in some manner about the sexual abuse taking place in his home and my husband (who was probably only 12 or 13 at the time) failed to do anything about it. He seems to have gone to the opposite extreme as soon as he was old enough to make a difference and has latched onto taking care of his friend completely.

    My husband's father was an alcoholic and this had a huge effect on my husband's life, and he's always found it hard to accept that he didn't try to stop his father from drinking himself to death. I think he has maybe tried to make up for this with his friend.

    I'm not making excuses, just adding some more details that may be relevant.

    My husband has never really shown any interest in men, it was a woman he was texting and I know he has had many relationships with women (before meeting me) over the years including one long term one before me. What really hurt me was that his best friend knew he was texting this other woman in the early days of our marriage and it showed his lack of loyalty to me that he wouldn't have told him to stop or to think of his new wife.

    My husband knows that his friend is extremely manipulative. He tells him straight to his face that he is the most manipulative person he's ever known in his life, his friend laughs about it.

    The friend isn't all bad, he is extremely helpful with our daughter though it's taken me a long time to trust him to leave her alone with him (and I generally try not to which I know the friend picks up on), I fear he would decide to relapse and abandon her to go buy drugs though he hasn't done anything like this in the past few years.

    He does seem to have changed his colours generally and is in very regular counselling but if I was to try and get my husband to cut contact with him or distance himself, I have no doubt his friend would just go straight back to drug abuse or the likes.

    I just don't know what to do.

    It's odd because the two of them receive nothing but praise from everyone in the outside world for charity work and helping mental health organisations, but they're destroying my mental health at the same time. To criticise either of them to anyone that knows them would result in me rapidly losing friends/contacts.

    I really do love my husband and I hold back because I can't handle the outcome I suspect; losing him to his friend. I don't know that they would ever conduct any kind of relationship, I just think the friend wants my husband there to be by his side constantly and no-one else.

    He is the perfect husband in every respect other than this. He always makes effort, he never complains about having to take care of our daughter, he'll always take me breakfast in bed, he cooks, cleans, does far more than his fair share of chores, he works hard to provide for us, I think if his friend wasn't in the picture we would have the perfect life and it's wrong of me to say it but I've wished so many times he just wasn't around anymore.

    When I gave birth to our daughter the friend dropped off the face of the earth for 2 full weeks. My husband's joy at becoming a father was totally tainted by his friend not being able to handle it, not coming to see the baby, or to offer congratulations. He was in a very bad place mentally at the time but it wasn't my problem. As far as I could see, he didn't want anyone to take my husband's attention away from him. He saw our daughter as a replacement, something my husband would divert his love/attention to.

    My husband finally talked him around to coming to see our daughter and put a huge amount of effort into getting him to accept it. It was a blessing to me at the time, I hoped we were finally rid of him but he came around to loving our daughter which I'm not sure how I feel about.

    He did apologise to me for his behaviour when our daughter was born, about 6 months later when he decided he could now handle the situation. I've never dealt with anyone so messed up in my life before and I fear that his awkward social behaviour (nervousness about menial tasks, anxiety over nothing) could end up rubbing off on our daughter as she sees him so often.

    I just don't know. It's draining to think about.


  • #4
    I am a friend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭I am a friend


    Op I am sorry to say but you seem to have blinkers on - if this was a girl it would be fairly obvious that they were in a relationship... The same is happening here except it sounds like a gay relationship which is going on right under your nose.

    What are you getting out of this relationship? You seem to blame the friend but in reality it's your husbands fault for having an inappropriate relationship and bringing it into your home. Sorry


  • #5
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    jacklad post deleted - if you wish to retain posting rights to this forum then read the [URL=" http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056181484"]forum rules[/URL] in the charter before posting again.


  • #6
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Seems like you've never taken to this friend of your husbands and don't like the fact he and your husband have a "wild" past together, have done drugs, or that he's bisexual - seeing as you've never "been around" gays before - and has a close friendship with your husband whilst you, as you admit yourself, don't appear to have anyone as close to confide in.

    Sounds like you're just jealous of this guy and don't like the fact that your husband has someone else he associates with on a regular basis outside of his family? a person has every right to maintain friendships even when they are married, and your husband appears to be what exactly a great friend is, someone who has supported this guy through thick and thin.

    Also, just because you have a snobby family and a gossipy sister who looks down on this guy doesn't mean they're right or that your husband is actually gay. Do you have anything to suspect they are having sex beyond beyond what your sister see's when she visits and you reading into moments you've seen between them? I mean ffs two guys sharing a blanket in front of the TV means they're definitely getting it on now does it?

    And for all your complaints about this guy having an undue influence on your marriage, it appears by your post that your own family appear to have a similar role in the marriage to your husbands friends. Is it really your sister and your family's place to be telling you that this guy shouldn't be attending family do's and that your husband should stop hanging out with him? or that your daughter shouldn't associate with him? just because he's had mental health issues and has a troubled past? are you and your family that cold to other members of your family or friends who may suffer from similar issues? Your family sound like prejudiced snobs tbh.

    Seems to me you and your family members need to cop on, accept that this guy is going to remain friends with your husband and that people sometimes have a troubled past. Do you really think it's fair for your husband to cut off contact with this guy on the basis of you and your sister reading too much into certain situations and/or what your extended family thinks of him?


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  • #7
    Miss Fluff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭Miss Fluff


    brokenwife wrote: »
    He is the perfect husband in every respect other than this. He always makes effort, he never complains about having to take care of our daughter, he'll always take me breakfast in bed, he cooks, cleans, does far more than his fair share of chores, he works hard to provide for us, I think if his friend wasn't in the picture we would have the perfect life and it's wrong of me to say it but I've wished so many times he just wasn't around anymore.

    So he's the perfect husband bar the fact that he's having an affair under your nose? That's such warped logic, it's like saying Hitler was a kind person because he loved dogs. (not for one moment am I comparing your husband to Hitler, it's merely for illustrative purposes).

    You came on here asking for advice and I'm not so sure how open you to actually receiving any. Do you feel yourself that you may have your head in the sand about this?

    On a side note, why exactly is it that your daughter needs to spend any time with this man alone? I got that from your first post and now you've reiterated it. She is four. He has a history of severe mental instability and abuse and someone you blatantly don't trust so I'd be putting a stop to that tbh...

    I think if you do decide to tackle this mess head-on then you do have to be prepared for what the outcome will be and I'm not so sure you've come to terms with that in your own head as your post seems to be peppered with excuses and denial unfortunately :(


  • #8
    Sesudra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 459 ✭✭Sesudra


    I have to agree with what people have said so far - even if (and I think its a big if) they're not actually having an affair, his relationship with his friend is directly and negatively affecting your marriage. You need to sit down with your husband and make him see that,tell him how uncomfortable his behaviour makes you and what he intends to do about it. Unfortunately, I've seen stuff like this before - people who are gay but get married and have kids because, in their mind, "Well, I'm married with children, of course I'm not gay, I just mess around with people of the same sex".

    You deserve better than being stuck in this situation, and you owe it to yourself to force your husband to face that. Even if the short term outcome is negative, and it could well be, you'd be freeing yourself to live a full life.


  • #9
    Semele
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 753 ✭✭✭Semele


    I don't think theres anything to be concerned about here. To me it it seems that you have built an issue out of a mix of your narrow-minded approach to life and adult relationships and your jealously at the fact that your husband seems to get along better with someone else than he does with you.

    You say that your husband previously gave up friendships that you weren't happy with...why?? You gave no reason for any concern in those instances- therefore it seems to be the very fact that your husband has any sort of relationship with someone else that is your problem. Now you want to see off your biggest threat. Why on earth should your husband cut contact with this man just to please you? You sound very intense and controlling and tbh the fact that you have no friends yourself and don't think that they're appropriate in a marriage is a massive red flag for me. You are also incredibly judgemental about this friend, purely on the basis of the fact that he has a troubled background and is bisexual, both of which seem to make him unfit to be around you and your child.

    You sound very narrow minded and judgemental. Maybe your husband (who sounds like a lovely, caring and open-minded man) just has more in common with his friend than with you? It may not be nice to hear but it is not always the case that married couples automatically enjoy each others company over that of anyone else- if you have a partner that is also your best friend then that is an amazing bonus, but being with someone does not automatically make this the case.

    I have a best friend who is closer than family to me and who often calls us "platonic soul-mates". I have never met anyone who I get along with so well, including anyone I've gone out with, and vice versa. It's by no means a threat to any relationship I may have, but at the same time neither does being in a relationship make her redundant in my life. I think you need to look at yourself and your relationship with your husband here and work on strengthening that, rather than fixating on outside threats. If you were totally secure in your relationship then you wouldn't need to have your husband friendless and all to yourself.


  • #10
    analucija
    Closed Accounts Posts: 363 ✭✭analucija


    TBH, I don't know but I know very few people (nobody) who would end up in relationship with their old friend or even be attracted to them. I'm not gay so I can't comment on same sex friendships but I do have mostly male friends and with all of them we were very quickly in friends zone, mostly they never were anything else. The "duvet incident" could be something or could be completely innocent. Couple of my friends and I used to watch movies in my friends room, when he still lived at home, sometimes it would be a mixed group and sometimes would be only boys and I wouldn't be there but we would be lying on the same bed and usually covered with the same duvet. It was never sexual, it was only being comfortable. All the hugging and compliments are a little bit unusual for me. The same friends that were completely happy to lie in the same bed, covered with the same blanket would never hug each other. None of them were particularly girly or ever considered to be gay.

    You have every right to ask your husband and you should also tell him about your feelings. There are people that would very rarely say no to any request for help. I don't think that a friend will ever be completely out of your husband's life but he should spend more time with you. It is also annoying to have somebody else in the house all the time and our husband should understand that. Charity starts at home and the family should come first. I'm not at all convinced that your husband is gay (he could be) but I've got the feeling that there might not be enough intimacy (not just sexual) between you two and you should address that.


  • #11
    ToyotaCorolla
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭ToyotaCorolla


    sfsjlfsjlsfjl wrote: »
    Seems like you've never taken to this friend of your husbands and don't like the fact he and your husband have a "wild" past together, have done drugs, or that he's bisexual - seeing as you've never "been around" gays before - and has a close friendship with your husband whilst you, as you admit yourself, don't appear to have anyone as close to confide in.

    Sounds like you're just jealous of this guy and don't like the fact that your husband has someone else he associates with on a regular basis outside of his family? a person has every right to maintain friendships even when they are married, and your husband appears to be what exactly a great friend is, someone who has supported this guy through thick and thin.

    Also, just because you have a snobby family and a gossipy sister who looks down on this guy doesn't mean they're right or that your husband is actually gay. Do you have anything to suspect they are having sex beyond beyond what your sister see's when she visits and you reading into moments you've seen between them? I mean ffs two guys sharing a blanket in front of the TV means they're definitely getting it on now does it?

    And for all your complaints about this guy having an undue influence on your marriage, it appears by your post that your own family appear to have a similar role in the marriage to your husbands friends. Is it really your sister and your family's place to be telling you that this guy shouldn't be attending family do's and that your husband should stop hanging out with him? or that your daughter shouldn't associate with him? just because he's had mental health issues and has a troubled past? are you and your family that cold to other members of your family or friends who may suffer from similar issues? Your family sound like prejudiced snobs tbh.

    Seems to me you and your family members need to cop on, accept that this guy is going to remain friends with your husband and that people sometimes have a troubled past. Do you really think it's fair for your husband to cut off contact with this guy on the basis of you and your sister reading too much into certain situations and/or what your extended family thinks of him?

    Her husband married her not the best friend why should she be made feel like a spare wheel by this degenerate waste of space . The poor women is being treated terribly. He is married with a child they should be his priority not his best friend. OP your husband needs to put you first and your child and cut this waste of space free and let him stand on his own two feet.


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  • #12
    moco
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭moco


    Semele wrote: »
    I don't think theres anything to be concerned about here. To me it it seems that you have built an issue out of a mix of your narrow-minded approach to life and adult relationships and your jealously at the fact that your husband seems to get along better with someone else than he does with you.

    You say that your husband previously gave up friendships that you weren't happy with...why?? You gave no reason for any concern in those instances- therefore it seems to be the very fact that your husband has any sort of relationship with someone else that is your problem. Now you want to see off your biggest threat. Why on earth should your husband cut contact with this man just to please you? You sound very intense and controlling and tbh the fact that you have no friends yourself and don't think that they're appropriate in a marriage is a massive red flag for me. You are also incredibly judgemental about this friend, purely on the basis of the fact that he has a troubled background and is bisexual, both of which seem to make him unfit to be around you and your child.

    You sound very narrow minded and judgemental. Maybe your husband (who sounds like a lovely, caring and open-minded man) just has more in common with his friend than with you? It may not be nice to hear but it is not always the case that married couples automatically enjoy each others company over that of anyone else- if you have a partner that is also your best friend then that is an amazing bonus, but being with someone does not automatically make this the case.

    I have a best friend who is closer than family to me and who often calls us "platonic soul-mates". I have never met anyone who I get along with so well, including anyone I've gone out with, and vice versa. It's by no means a threat to any relationship I may have, but at the same time neither does being in a relationship make her redundant in my life. I think you need to look at yourself and your relationship with your husband here and work on strengthening that, rather than fixating on outside threats. If you were totally secure in your relationship then you wouldn't need to have your husband friendless and all to yourself.

    She has said her husband was sending flirty texts to a woman who responded by sending him naked photos. I think that's quite a good reason to make him end a friendship.


  • #13
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    sfsjlfsjlsfjl wrote: »
    Seems like you've never taken to this friend of your husbands and don't like the fact he and your husband have a "wild" past together, have done drugs, or that he's bisexual - seeing as you've never "been around" gays before - and has a close friendship with your husband whilst you, as you admit yourself, don't appear to have anyone as close to confide in.

    Sounds like you're just jealous of this guy and don't like the fact that your husband has someone else he associates with on a regular basis outside of his family? a person has every right to maintain friendships even when they are married, and your husband appears to be what exactly a great friend is, someone who has supported this guy through thick and thin.

    Also, just because you have a snobby family and a gossipy sister who looks down on this guy doesn't mean they're right or that your husband is actually gay. Do you have anything to suspect they are having sex beyond beyond what your sister see's when she visits and you reading into moments you've seen between them? I mean ffs two guys sharing a blanket in front of the TV means they're definitely getting it on now does it?

    And for all your complaints about this guy having an undue influence on your marriage, it appears by your post that your own family appear to have a similar role in the marriage to your husbands friends. Is it really your sister and your family's place to be telling you that this guy shouldn't be attending family do's and that your husband should stop hanging out with him? or that your daughter shouldn't associate with him? just because he's had mental health issues and has a troubled past? are you and your family that cold to other members of your family or friends who may suffer from similar issues? Your family sound like prejudiced snobs tbh.

    Seems to me you and your family members need to cop on, accept that this guy is going to remain friends with your husband and that people sometimes have a troubled past. Do you really think it's fair for your husband to cut off contact with this guy on the basis of you and your sister reading too much into certain situations and/or what your extended family thinks of him?

    I agree fully with this.

    What indication have you actually seen to make you genuinely believe this is anything more than a very close friendship.

    You have deprived your good kind husband of a sex life but he has stayed with you. I don't see that he is doing anything wrong with being close to his lifelong best friend.

    I feel truly sorry for the friend from how you have written about him and the way others here have responded.

    What are the friends crimes exactly? That he was sexually and physically abused? That he has a huge range of mental illness probably as a result of this abuse? You haven't said that he has abused anyone other than himself during his life though people here are replying like he is going to sexually abuse the child?? That's unbelivably narrow minded.

    The poor guy has been through hell and was lucky enough to be loved dearly by his best friend and now you want to take the one person that has probably ever cared from him away from him?

    I think you need to think carefully before demanding your husband remove his friend from his life.

    Also, I think the op did say that she made her husband end more than just one friendship with a female... Why?


  • #14
    invinciblePRSTV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    ToyotaCorolla wrote: »
    Her husband married her not the best friend why should she be made feel like a spare wheel by this degenerate waste of space . The poor women is being treated terribly. He is married with a child they should be his priority not his best friend. OP your husband needs to put you first and your child and cut this waste of space free and let him stand on his own two feet.

    Did you bother reading the OP's posts before you came out with this? her issue isn't with the husband spending time with this guy and "prioritising" him over her and their child (which doesn't appear to be the case seeing as the OP has called him a good father and said she's "happy" with the marriage itself), her issue is a suspicion of him carrying out a homosexual affair with her husband and the general unsuitability of this chap to be even associated with her because of his troubled mental health and background, both perceptions which appear to be fuelled by the OP's family.

    And as for you calling the husbands friend a "degenerate waste of space", that's a mean and unfair comment which says more about you and your mindset then it does about the chap in question.


  • #15
    daisybelle2008
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,403 ✭✭✭daisybelle2008


    OP there was a very very similar situation posted here before from the Husbands perspective. In fact most of the details were exactly identical. The Husband had slept with the best friend and was in love with him but did not want to break up with his wife and daughter.
    I don't think you husband is being honest about about the extent of the relationship with his friend.


  • #16
    daisybelle2008
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,403 ✭✭✭daisybelle2008


    OP there was a very very similar situation posted here before from the Husbands perspective. In fact most of the details were exactly identical. The Husband had slept with the best friend and was in love with him but did not want to break up with his family.
    I don't think you husband is being honest about about the extent of the relationship with his friend.

    This is the similar situation, maybe reading it will help you figure things out.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056268860


  • #17
    ElleEm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭ElleEm


    Fjdudkdkdk wrote: »
    I agree fully with this.

    What indication have you actually seen to make you genuinely believe this is anything more than a very close friendship.

    You have deprived your good kind husband of a sex life but he has stayed with you. I don't see that he is doing anything wrong with being close to his lifelong best friend.

    I feel truly sorry for the friend from how you have written about him and the way others here have responded.

    What are the friends crimes exactly? That he was sexually and physically abused? That he has a huge range of mental illness probably as a result of this abuse? You haven't said that he has abused anyone other than himself during his life though people here are replying like he is going to sexually abuse the child?? That's unbelivably narrow minded.

    The poor guy has been through hell and was lucky enough to be loved dearly by his best friend and now you want to take the one person that has probably ever cared from him away from him?

    I think you need to think carefully before demanding your husband remove his friend from his life.

    Also, I think the op did say that she made her husband end more than just one friendship with a female... Why?

    I agree with this.

    OP, you have said that you don't have a best friend, so you wouldn't know what it is like to have that same relationship. I would die for my best friend- I would drop ANYTHING to be at her side and her me.

    Your husband sounds like a wonderful person, although he clearly needs to learn how to manage his priorities between you and his best friend. He needs to encourage his friend to stand on his own two feet and not be so dependant on him.

    They have a bond that is unbreakable, and you should NEVER try to end their relationship. The best friend appears to need a friend, and your husband is there for him. You do not seem to have any empathy towards the best friend's past, explaining his history of abuse in the same paragraph as saying you would never want to have anything to do with someone with such a "messy past". It's not like he chose to be abused as a child.

    If your husband is a great father but chooses to spend time away from you with his best friend, the questions you need to ask are not about the strength of the relationship with his friend, but more about the lack of his relationship with you.


  • #18
    Taltos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,830 ✭✭✭✭Taltos


    daisybelle - while I understand you are trying to help it is against our charter to post links to other threads in PI/RI.

    If anyone has an issue with a post please use the report button, do not call out issues in your own replies to the thread. Anon - I have deleted your post.

    Taltos


  • #19
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I don't want to be cruel or rub salt into your wounds but it does sound like your husband and his friend are pretty much in a gay relationship together.

    I can't think of any straight man who would want to snuggle up under a duvet with another man, touch him affectionately etc etc.

    Sounds like Brokeback Mountain to me.

    Sorry, but that's how I see it.


  • #20
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I've just re-read the OP's posts and I think people really are overreacting.

    I think the husband's friendship with his best buddy sounds absolutely lovely, it's a friendship I would truly long to have but unfortunately my best friend now lives overseas.

    I'm male and had a very deep bond with a childhood friend. We grew up together and became like brothers over the years. We don't see each other much now but I know there were many times through our 20s where we would lie on the couch watching TV or a film and if we were cold, we'd throw a blanket over the two of us. Is that gay now? Because back then we saw it as a way to keep warm.

    Don't you think that it's possible your husband is just very comfortable around his best friend and is relaxed enough and comfortable enough in his own sexuality that the fact that the friend may have messed around with his sexuality during his wild drug-fuelled years hasn't pushed your husband away?
    brokenwife wrote:
    . He slept with anyone that would look at him, male and female. He self harmed, he put himself into situations over and over to allow himself to be abused.

    All of that is his problem, and he's dealt with it from what I can see.

    And perhaps I'm misreading, but you don't say anywhere that the friend ever had any long term gay relationships or anything of that nature. You say he allowed himself to be abused. Correct me if I'm wrong, I am speculating, but what I get from this is that the friend went through many blurry wild years (as a lot of perfectly decent people have) where he probably had a lot of one night stands and drunken wild antics. Perhaps some of this sex happened to include men. Perhaps because he was sexually abused, something psychologically drove him back to putting himself in a situation where he allowed men to have sex with him. You say he abused himself but not anybody else.

    This doesn't necessarily mean that he would ever wish to pursue a gay relationship.

    This certainly doesn't mean he would abuse your daughter (or anyone other than himself) as some people appear to be insinuating.

    Has he shown you any reason while spending time with your daughter that you feel it is a danger to leave her in his company? He is hardly the first person in the world to be around children who has dealt with some form of mental illness in the past.

    You say he has been steady and mentally okay for 18 months? Perhaps a lot of the drama and turmoil has dropped out of his life and has allowed him to finally settle down and be more steady. He is receiving on-going counselling, he seems to have worked his issues out but that's still not good enough for you or your family, because multiple times you mention his past, your lack of trust for him (I don't see anywhere he has damaged YOUR trust apart from him not telling you that his best friend had confided in him that he sent flirty text messages to someone - of course he didn't tell you, he is loyal to his friend) and how your family feel about his presence. He seems to be working very hard but his efforts certainly don't seem to be appreciated by you or your family and if he is spending such a regular amount of time with you, I'm sure he's picked up on that.

    brokenwife wrote:
    The friend isn't all bad, he is extremely helpful with our daughter though it's taken me a long time to trust him to leave her alone with him (and I generally try not to which I know the friend picks up on)

    How do you think it feels for the friend to pick up on stuff like this? Don't you consider that your lack of faith or trust in the friend - and probable resentment - could really be upsetting him and perhaps not at all helping his mental wellbeing?


    From what I can gather he has been drug-free for 8 years now?

    This guy has had one hell of a rough deal.

    You mention the sexual abuse, the physical abuse, the breakdown of his marriage and loss of seeing his child like they are an afterthought in his life. You mention how annoying it was to have your husband talking about his friend's health all of the time. You really, really hate this poor guy, don't you?
    brokenwife wrote:
    All my husband wanted to talk about was his friend’s journey, or medical stuff, and I just didn’t want to hear any more about him or his life.

    I'm getting the impression that you and your sister have been raised in a very sheltered environment, and are having the tendency to look down on those of us who have been less fortunate in life.

    Nobody chooses to be abused. Nobody chooses who their parents or family are. This poor guy probably felt he struck gold to have such a wonderful best friend who stood by him even though he probably let your husband down hugely with relapses, or whatever. And then you entered your husband's life and the friend thought that was it, that he had lost the only person who ever stood by him for good. But instead of trying to make friends with him and reassure him that you would never drive him out of your husband's life, you have done the opposite and are trying anything you can to get rid of him from your husband's life, then you wonder why he may be resentful?
    brokenwife wrote:
    I think if his friend wasn't in the picture we would have the perfect life and it's wrong of me to say it but I've wished so many times he just wasn't around anymore.

    Are you insinuating that you wish he would just go ahead and kill himself? Because that is a really horrible attitude to have towards someone who has had such a raw deal in life.

    Have you at any point tried to see any of this from the friend's POV? You obviously have no experience of this 'bad background' the unfortunate friend comes from and you ought to count yourself lucky for that.
    brokenwife wrote:
    To make matters worse our child sees him like some kind of second father as she spends so much time with him and my husband.

    Again, I find this comment upsetting. I would say your daughter is very lucky to have two men in her life who love her very much. Because one of them has had past demons should not be an issue here. Some of the best advice I ever received growing up was from my father's best friend.
    When I had a condom split and a pregnancy scare with a girl in my teens, I confided in my father's best friend. I saw him as my cooler uncle figure who could offer mature adult/parental advice without shouting at me about it and punishing me as my father would. This man has a lot of life experiences that could possibly come in useful should you allow him to be involved in your daughter's life in her teen years and later.

    You state that the friend's ex wife refuses to let him see his child. You don't think for a second that maybe the friend is compensating for the lack of access to his own child by spending time with your daughter? Did you ever think that these little things you detest are what could be getting this unfortunate man through his day?
    brokenwife wrote:
    They hug constantly; my husband will always give his friend a quick squeeze around the waist or rub his arm as he walks past him. He doesn’t do this with me. They tell each other they love each other as friends every day. On the nights the friend decides to go home rather than waiting over, my husband will walk him to his car and hug him goodnight.

    I believe this is the one comment that has caused so many of those replying to come to the conclusion that these men are having some kind of seedy gay affair right under your very nose.

    I'm just not seeing that in this situation, at all.

    I'm seeing two very, very close friends, one who is weak and vulnerable, and the other who is being supportive and caring as possible.
    brokenwife wrote:
    The friend was bisexual until cleaning up his ways around the time I first met him, I don’t know much about this.

    How much of this is speculation? Do you even know for a fact that the friend ever was bisexual, or are you just tainting him as overall 'dirty' because of the childhood abuse, and because he had some wild years?
    brokenwife wrote:
    When I’ve begged my husband to end his relationship with this man, he has ended up breaking down in tears at the thought of not having the friend in his life

    IF you love your husband as you say you do, how could you put him through this? Why deprive him like that?
    brokenwife wrote:
    All of his friends see it as adorable and see my husband as a saint for getting his friend’s life back on track. The friend regularly says that there were dozens of times he’d have taken his life or given up if not for my husband. He has no family (they sided with the sexual abuser who was a family member) and his other friends were all drug addicts so he doesn’t see them anymore.

    His friends aren't viewing him as a gay man having some seedy affair under his wife's nose. I imagine they are seeing him for exactly what he is, a very good, kind decent man. A man who volunteers for the Samaritans and helps out with other charities.
    brokenwife wrote:
    Maybe if there wasn't a history of bisexuality in the friend, this wouldn't be as big an issue for me, but I have to question why my husband would allow himself to get so close to someone that can be attracted to him. Surely if this friendship was with a female, it would be totally inappropriate and if the friend is bi, is it not the same scenario?

    If you trusted your husband, you wouldn't need to worry whether his best friend is male or female. You should know your husband well enough to know if he is gay or bi. You have not indicated that you have any signs that he is other than some friends thinking he has camp mannerisms. You are digging for signs of 'gayness' that just aren't there. I really don't see anything to indicate your husband is anything more than a best friend to this man.
    brokenwife wrote:
    Do I have the right to ask my husband if anything has gone on between them in the past? This is the one thing I feel I need to know.

    Of course you have the right, but I think you could look like an idiot for asking something like this, I'm sure your husband could find it quite baffling, and it could be quite embarrassing for you.

    I'd like to be seeing a little more evidence before accusing someone of anything as dramatic as a gay affair.

    Surely if your husband was conducting a gay affair he wouldn't be hugging his friend in front of you, or lying on a couch under the same duvet. Surely the fact that he does this stuff blatantly in front of you means it is innocent?

    Have you ever watched a soccer match and seen how the sportsmen behave when they score a goal? Does that make all of them gay?
    brokenwife wrote:
    When we discussed this in the past my husband felt I should be thankful that his best friend is male as I had insecurity with him having female friends in the past and he cut these women out of his life (he sent flirty texts to one particular woman and she responded with nude photos), he blamed me for lack of sexual interest in him and said he texted this woman for an ego boost, we worked through it in counselling and rebuilt the trust and he no longer has contact with any women in that way.
    But maybe by stopping him from having female friends all I did was drive him even closer to his best male friend?

    So he's already cut all females out of his life, and now you want to take away his closest remaining male friend too? When you do get rid of this poor vulnerable friend, who will you eliminate from his life next? Because that's not going to fix your marriage. The problems you have probably have nothing whatsoever to do with the friend. You're just pushing your issues onto him as he's an easy target.
    brokenwife wrote:
    My husband has never really shown any interest in men

    Then don't be so suspicious of his FRIENDSHIP with this man.

    It's very easy to judge situations like this from the outside and jump on the 'gay affair' soap-opera style drama wagon but sometimes there isn't anything deep and dirty just below the surface. Sometimes things really are as they seem. In this case, I think the OP is dealing with two men who are very, very close friends and that should be seen as a beautiful thing for two people to share rather than a dirty inappropriate probable affair that ought to be eliminated from the husband's life.


  • #21
    Starokan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Starokan


    There is so much sadness about your op. Its a really difficult one to figure out.

    I think you need to first examine your own feelings here. For example is your perception of this friendship coloured by the fact that you deep down believe they are having a relationship. I went out with a girl for some time, it started out fine but within six months to a year she found something wrong with all my friends both female and male. You have eliminated his female friends, you need to examine your actions here to see are you doing the same with his male ones.

    If after this you can clearly say you are not acting out of fear but simply acting out of frustration that his relationship with his friend is directly impinging on your marriage then you need to sit him down and talk.

    In general i hate ultimatums but i think in this case its necessary, you need to be prepared to end this relationship if he is not willing to budge on this. Why.. well simply because when its causing this amount of sadness to you then the relationship is not working. If he truly loves you he will work this out for you.

    More counselling would possibly help. What i would stress is be reasonable , some people are very attached to their friends and you need to realise this, i know in your head you are thinking you should be the number one priority all the time and yes you should but space must be made for life long friendships too.

    As to what is reasonable i guess it varies, i am currently single and my five childhood friends are all married. I would never go a week without contacting or being contacted by them but i would not in a million years go to their house every day , it just would not happen.

    The strangest part of all this is that your husband allowing his friend to be so dependent on him will probably mean that his friend will never establish his own independent life.


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  • #22
    allym
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭allym


    I am so so sorry to hear this, it really sounds like it's tearing you up.

    To me, this does sound like a completely inappropriate relationship. There may or may not be anything sexual to this relationship, however it seems to me that the best friend has replaced you as the most important person in your husband's life. (besides your daughter obviously). And in my opinion that is not ok. As his wife you two should be a team and value and respect each other. By deliberately making you a third wheel in your own marriage he isn't showing you this respect.
    I think you should have an open and honest chat with him about how you feel, but be prepared to hear the worst.

    And to all those who are saying it isn't odd, if he was having this relationship with a woman you would definitely think differently.


  • #23
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I don't want to be cruel or rub salt into your wounds but it does sound like your husband and his friend are pretty much in a gay relationship together.

    I can't think of any straight man who would want to snuggle up under a duvet with another man, touch him affectionately etc etc.

    Sounds like Brokeback Mountain to me.

    Sorry, but that's how I see it.

    But how much is TV/film influencing how we see what could be a perfectly innocent albeit very deep friendship?

    How many people do you know who have been through similar circumstances to those of the OP's husband and his friend? Perhaps when you add all of the factors such as the overdose, the near death, the husband's father drinking his life away, the confiding as a child about sexual and physical abuse in his friend but being too young to take action - perhaps that makes a situation between two friends a little different to your average steady easy-going guys who meet for a few pints in the local pub on a Saturday night?

    How many friends have been through so much together?

    I imagine that is playing a huge factor in this very deep friendship which makes it much harder to evaluate from the outside.


  • #24
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Hey OP,

    Your husband calls this guy his girlfriend - that means he has given this guy the title of his partner and used a term usually associated with a sexually intimate relationship...that is definitely a bit odd. Even if you weren't already competing for his time and affection, this means he has deliberately put his friend in direct competition/comparison with you in his life. I think not being able to handle the birth of your child and the wedding date revolving around his friends recovery also puts you in competition with each other and that's really not healthy for anyone.

    I'm not sure what to advise you, OP. I don't know what's going on with your husband but if marriage ever gets to the point that you feel insignificant in comparison to someone else then there is clearly something very wrong - whether that is you just being made to feel insignificant or your own issues in combination with your husbands priorities being with his friend causing you to feel insignificant, I don't know.

    Either way, I think you would benefit from working through and discussing all issues you have with a counsellor; you sound sad, lonely, frustrated and your confidence sounds shot - not just about your husband but also about your daughter and lack of friends. Perhaps thrashing everything out with a third party will be able to give you some clarity on what is going on and where the boundaries need to be drawn.

    All the best.


  • #25
    IrishEyes19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭IrishEyes19


    I think its completely out of bounds to suggest this anything more than friendship. Childhood friendships run deep and if you are that close from early years, its hard to break when you are older and the friendship is so strong.

    I completely feel for you though, it cant be easy. Have you told your husband this directly, maybe show him your first post, I thought it was very heart felt.

    Also ppl should cop on suggesting he is having an affair. What a pressumption to make because he loves his best friend. I love my best friend dearly. And Im certainly not having an affair with them


  • #26
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    OP I'm male and married 2 years with child and in my experience, males of that age group dont share duvets together end of.

    I've plenty of male friends and we've gone through some rough times and poor past experiences and also good times together.
    It wouldnt cross my mind, it wouldnt cross my friends mind.

    obiviously I can only speak from my frame of reference but I would be of the strong opinion that this is not an innocent friendship.


  • #27
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I think as you said yourself your husband felt a lot of guilt for not being able to help his friend from being abused as a child, and is also feeling guilt that he wasn't able to save his father from alcoholism. Of course he was only young and didn't know what do in these situations, but that kind of guilt can stay with you.
    Your husband seems to have dedicated his life to helping others through his work with samaritans and charity work. He has also dedicated himself to being as you say yourself an excellent father, and an excellent husband in all other respects apart from the incident from the past with the texting.
    I completely understand you making him cut contact with that woman he was texting, you were dead right.
    I'm just trying to see things from his point of view now though.
    He is not allowed to have any female friends.
    His wife does not want to have sex with him.
    He takes the most care of the child, and even takes her to work with him.
    He cooks, cleans, and brings you breakfast in bed.
    He has an extremely close lifelong bond with this friend, and his wife reduces him to tears by asking him to cut contact with him.

    I agree that he probably is closer to his friend than he is to you, but have you considered if you might also have played a part in this, due to controlling who he is allowed be friends with, and rejecting him sexually which is in itself also an emotional rejection?
    I'm not for a second saying that you should force yourself to have sex you don't feel comfortable with, but would you consider trying to come to some sort of compromise about these issues that you are both happy with, whether that is trying new things or whatever?

    If he is spending far too much time with his friend, to the point where you feel second fiddle, then he needs to do something to fix this.
    I don't recommend that he cuts his friend out of his life, that is just cruel, but that you set aside some time each week that is just family time. Decide between yourselves what time that is whether it's a certain amount of days per week or whatever, and get him to ask his friend to stick with it. Outside of this time, he could still see his friend plenty of times a week, and text or call him the days he doesn't see him. As the friend is close to your daughter, you could use it as an advantage and ask him to babysit an occasional night so you can have a couples night out with your husband. Your husband and him should also get to have friends night out. You too should maybe join some groups and makes some good friends of your own too.

    I think your husband sounds like an exceptional friend and a very loving man. It seems that he may just be feeling emotionally detached from you, and that if you two can fix that together, and if you also gain some friends and your own social life, that a lot of these problems would stop. I also don't seen anything gay in things you have described, just a very close friendship.


  • #28
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    There are so many responses here and I don't have the time right now to reply to them individually but thanks to everyone who took time to write.

    A few points:

    I don't think I'm going into a huge denial on this. I just don't want to jump before the ship is well on it's way to sinking.

    I don't ever leave my child for hours on end with this man or use him as a babysitter or anything like that, it's more a case of if my husband goes out to do something in the garage and I'm doing some gardening and I come in to take care of our daughter the friend will offer to watch her as he is sitting in the same room watching TV while she plays on the floor and I'll refuse a couple of times but then I'll feel bad and allow him to keep an eye on her but only for 20 minutes and I'm nearby all of the time.

    There have been cases where we've all been shopping and my husband and I want to buy something but it's hard with our daughter so he'll volunteer to sit with her on a bench outside the shop and keep her entertained while we are busy. My husband's attitude will be "Go on, let him" and it's not exactly easy to get into an argument about it when he's right there in front of us. My husband knows I'm not happy about this but will point out that he was a very good father during the time he was allowed to be around his child but if the ex won't allow him to be around his own child why should I allow him around my child?

    Yes, it is correct that he has been clean for a long time and his recent behaviour has been very good, but he still has a very troubled past looming over him and maybe that does make me small-minded but I just can't let it go. It doesn't make me a bad person to have not grown up around heroin and coke users. I do not like drugs and I don't want someone who was so addicted to them to be a part of my life. My husband is unable to see his friend as anything other than a victim and I just can't identify with that train of thought.

    He put himself in that situation and allowed it to happen.


    I am fully aware that their relationship is totally abnormal and I guess what I'm trying to work out is if there is more going on, or if it is okay to allow them to be like this in front of our daughter (I'm not sure I want her growing up thinking it's okay for two adult men to be close like this, especially when one is married) or if I should be willing to put up with this because as it has been pointed out my self confidence is pretty beat now.

    Elements of this friendship were discussed during the early days, when we were just going out my future husband was very forthcoming about it all. At that time he told me that he knew their relationship wasn't normal but he wished that more men could be less macho and talk to each other the way he and his friend do. Back then he would always describe the friend as his brother or his clone. He still does sometimes. They have exactly the same interest in films, music, TV, computer games, everything.

    The calling him 'my girlfriend' is always said as a joke and is mostly to wind up the friend who can be quite macho about these things, but it strikes an uneasy feeling in me.

    My husband once told me (again in the early days) that his ex (the only other long term he'd had) was very fond of the friend and the friend was also in a relationship then and they did everything as couples together including travelling, he told me how nice this was.

    I think he was hoping that we could be like that when the friend got married, but the friend's wife and I didn't hit it off. She is very wild and not somebody I would have anything in common with, she's probably even worse than the friend to be around!

    I suppose in a lot of ways my husband treats him quite like a child because a lot of the friend's characteristics can be quite childish.

    The reason I put my foot down in regard to my husband's contact with other women had to do with him being an extremely flirty person, he admitted in counselling that this had been a problem for him in every past relationship and he had cheated previously. He expects me to accept that he is just a flirt but won't act on it, yet given his past record of cheating this is hard to do.

    We worked through that and while I know it makes me insecure and it is the wrong course of action, I couldn't handle him having several female friends in his life who he would flirt with blatantly in front of me and then tell me it was just how he is. This was followed by me finding text messages which were completely inappropriate and just validated that I was right to feel suspicious and insecure.

    That episode is fully in the past though. I just mentioned it because I thought it was important to note that he is certainly interested in women and apart from how he is with this friend, I haven't seen any signs to point towards him being gay.

    I've seen the text messages they exchange and it's pretty much the same as they would be directly in front of me. If the friend isn't in our house that day, my husband will text him with something along the lines of "Night buddy, I love you."
    He'll text back "ya me too" or such and that will prompt my husband to wind him up for not using the phrase "I love you". Generally it is just childish, pointless exchanges like that.

    The friend is generally less full on about it but that makes me concerned that maybe he is more afraid of being himself in front of me in case I would suspect something. As a person the friend can be very cocky and wild and fun with my husband or his close friends but is a lot more shy and mute when around me or most other people.

    My husband showed me a video on his phone that shocked me over a year ago where himself and the friend had been playing rockband with a couple of other male friends while I was away for the weekend and the friend was standing on our table dancing and singing his heart out, entertaining them all. I remember being really surprised as I never see that side of him, I generally see a depressed, glum, lazy person who just sits there looking miserable all of the time.

    I've seen many photos and videos of the two of them growing up and it seems to have been the same all the way through. I've seen photos of the two of them in their early 20s extremely drunk with the friend sitting on my husband's lap, and vice versa. The friend is far less full on with the hugs, etc, it really is my husband who instigates it all. The friend can be very cold and will sometimes push my husband away if he even sits too close to him, which my husband will laugh about and tease him.

    The friend got set up for a date early this year and it led to a second date which the friend decided he didn't want because she'd expect sex. I recall overhearing him discussing this with my husband and telling him that the thought of sex made him feel sick and he didn't want to see this woman again, as far as I could tell he meant sex generally rather than just with this woman, and my husband did allude to him having endless problems with letting someone get close to him previously. Based on that, I can't easily bring myself to believe that he would be having sex with my husband, or anyone.

    There are days where he will be extremely clingy and other days where he is quite macho and won't allow my husband to hug him or be too loving.

    Again, I'm not making excuses. Well maybe subconsciously I am. Maybe I'm just not ready to accept this. I don't know. I find writing it here is helping to get it out of my head and deal with it a little.

    I'm going to try and set a deadline today to discuss this with my husband again and take action on the matter once and for all. I guess I didn't know if I had the right to order change on this matter. Being the third wheel, it's very hard to know where I stand anymore.


  • #29
    Elle Collins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 681 ✭✭✭Elle Collins


    My advice to you OP is to get the hell out of this excuse for a marriage and leave your excuse for a husband to his "girlfriend".

    I couldn't do anything BUT walk out on a man who prioritised me last, affair or no affair. Their relationship is a fcuked up co-dependent mess and I'd advise you to leave them to it. 'Lovely friendship' my hole...


  • #30
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,268 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    OP, I know you said you didn't want advice on the gap between your sex drive and your husbands but can you not see that this is a key problem in your relationship? Something tells me that if you and your husband were happier in your relationship, your husbands closeness to his best friend wouldn't be such an issue for you (and you might find yourself getting prioritised more than the friend).

    Without a regular and healthy sex life, a marriage becomes just a friendship. There have been quite a few studies that show what common sense tells most of us: having regular sex with someone brings you closer together.

    Without a satisfying sex life, I think you're going to grow distant in a marriage as the little quirks of your partners behaviour that annoy you (and let's face it, no couple love *everything* about each other) erode the love you feel towards them without the sex helping to build it back up.

    Your husbands friend has been his "best friend" for most of his life, it would be extraordinary if you could compete with him in that kind of relationship (no matter how much of an "emotional wreck" he is. To me, this is the key. You're not "supposed" to be competing with him: your relationship with your husband should be of an entirely different persuasion: a sexual, loving partnership rather than a friendship.

    Did you actually resolve the sexual issues you have in your counselling, or did your husband just learn to live with a sexually frustrating relationship and end up seeking solace from this in playing white knight to his best friend and his other charitable actions?

    If you can't face talking about this with your husband, you could try a little experiment: initiate sex more than usual for a few weeks and see how this affects your relationship. Try not to see it as a chore though: experiment with things *you* would like to try rather than just playing to his desires. To me at least (and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this), there are few things as rewarding sexually as a partner that's really enjoying themselves.


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  • #31
    Elle Collins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 681 ✭✭✭Elle Collins


    So he's putting her last in every aspect of their lives and she should try to amend matters by screwing his brains out? Am I missing something here??

    The fact is the OP's husband has ALWAYS told her that his friend will come first. He said that to her only a year into their marriage. Hell, he even planned his wedding day to suit his friend!!

    Sorry OP, but if you've any respect for yourself or want to find any kind of happiness you'll just walk away from this nonsense, because you sure as hell aren't going to find it with a husband who's utterly devoted to someone else.


  • #32
    ToyotaCorolla
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭ToyotaCorolla


    Elle Collins wrote: »
    My advice to you OP is to get the hell out of this excuse for a marriage and leave your excuse for a husband to his "girlfriend".

    I couldn't do anything BUT walk out on a man who prioritised me last, affair or no affair. Their relationship is a fcuked up co-dependent mess and I'd advise you to leave them to it. 'Lovely friendship' my hole...


    Here ,here Elle Collins . Some of the posters to the OP earlier on are posting out their backside- with "ah isnt it lovely how close they are". Give me a break, the husband tries to project how caring ,compassionate and understanding he is working with the Samartians etc.
    He might be better of applying some understanding towards his wife.
    When the child grows up she will resent the "best friend" too and this whole situation . OP dont let any posters try to fog your judgement whats going on is unacceptable .

    I think the husband is on a power trip he likes people to rely on him, seek his advice , deep down he would probably hate if his friend got himself sorted and moved on with his life because then it would not be the way it was maybe he is trying to cling on to the past.


  • #33
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,268 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Elle Collins wrote: »
    So he's putting her last in every aspect of their lives and she should try to amend matters by screwing his brains out? Am I missing something here??

    The fact is the OP's husband has ALWAYS told her that his friend will come first. He said that to her only a year into their marriage. Hell, he even planned his wedding day to suit his friend!!

    Sorry OP, but if you've any respect for yourself or want to find any kind of happiness you'll just walk away from this nonsense, because you sure as hell aren't going to find it with a husband who's utterly devoted to someone else.
    Did you read the post? The reasoning behind it? Without sex, a relationship is just a friendship. We've seen so many posts on PI/RI where the OP is considering leaving their husband/wife because they're not being sexually satisfied.

    What kind of healthy relationship involves "allowing" your partner to see their friends.

    What's so wrong about timing your wedding so your best friend can be the best man? Or is caring about the details of a wedding only the woman should care about?! :rolleyes:

    I'm not saying the OP's husband is without fault but it's pretty clear that the OP would have to accept some blame for the distance that has grown between them too.


  • #34
    Elle Collins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 681 ✭✭✭Elle Collins


    Sleepy wrote: »
    I'm not saying the OP's husband is without fault but it's pretty clear that the OP would have to accept some blame for the distance that has grown between them too.

    My point is that this relationship has always been unhealthy, and that there has always been distance between them. It's pretty difficult for two people to have a close marriage when there are in fact three people in it.

    As for sex, when a woman is consistantly prioritised last she feels demeaned, degraded and dissapointed. She feels, in fact, the polar opposite of horny. Being sexually close to a man who puts you last is the furthest thing from a woman's mind.

    I think it's way off the mark to expect a woman who's being treated like this to try to rectify matters by having sex she clearly doesn't want to be having. And I wouldn't blame her, if my husband was treated me like this I wouldn't want to touch him with a ten foot pole.

    And as for their sexual history, who can say how that might have developed if the OP hadn't always had to compete for attention in her own marriage?


  • #35
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,268 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Elle Collins wrote: »
    As for sex, when a woman is consistantly prioritised last she feels demeaned, degraded and dissapointed. She feels, in fact, the polar opposite of horny. Being sexually close to a man who puts you last is the furthest thing from a woman's mind.
    It's a bit of a Catch 22 when being sexually distant from a man is going to make him put you lower in his priorities.

    The OP hasn't said that their sexual history has changed in any way, she said:
    I'm not very interested in sex, it's just the way I am and I can't change that. Sex has felt like a chore a lot of the time and while I love him very much, I would be happier if sex wasn't so important to him.
    Which sounds like this has always been the case and, to be frank, isn't healthy for the OP or her relationship with her husband.

    I wonder was she as upfront with him about not wanting to have sex as he was about the fact that his best friend was very important to him before they got married? If so, perhaps her husband foolishly believed that their sex life would improve when they were married or that he could ignite some passion in her as their relationship deepened. If not (and from what I've seen of the world she certainly wouldn't be the first woman who's "interest" in sex took a nosedive once she had "bagged" her husband), who can blame him for growing distant from a wife who has no sexual interest in him?


  • #36
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    I think you are both right to a degree. Couples have to meet somewhere in the middle so both their wants and desires are met as much as possible. When that doesn't happen then resentment is just going to build and build, spilling out into other areas of their relationship. The husband may well be punishing his wife for not enjoying sex and not wanting to be sexually intimate with him by denying her any intimacy and showering affection on his friend...and she may well be withholding or not enjoying sex because of the unhealthy dynamics of being made to feel insignificant in comparison to his friend - and so the cycle continues.

    OP, I think third party intervention is required to try to resolve this issue once and for all - and if it can't be resolved or either you or your husband is not willing to meet half-way, then you have some big decisions to make as to what kind of marriage/life you want to have.


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  • #37
    Elle Collins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 681 ✭✭✭Elle Collins


    Sleepy wrote: »
    who can blame him for growing distant from a wife who has no sexual interest in him?

    He didn't "grow" distant from her though. He was always emotionally distant from her. He let her know that quite clearly from the start.

    I personally don't think this relationship is worth saving, because I don't think a man who treats a woman that way is worth having. That is up to the OP though, obviously.


  • #38
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    This is the first time I've seen such opposite replies in one thread

    It makes for baffling reading.

    One half of the responses make the husband out to be an evil monster with a dirty abusing gay lover and they are committing a gay affair right under the nose of the wife and child.

    (The only crime I can see that they've committed is sharing a duvet on the couch while watching tv?)

    The rest of the responses are seeing this as a beautiful friendship with a saintly kind caring husband who happens to be very close to the best friend he's had since childhood.

    I'm swaying nearer to the latter outlook, but all of the players are slightly wrong in this situation.

    By denying the husband of a sex life and friends, of course there are going to be problems in a marriage.

    By allowing your friend to become utterly dependent on you and fill a bigger part of your life than your wife, of course there will be issues. Somebody mentioned that maybe the husband doesn't want the friend to stand on his own two feet, maybe he likes being depended on, and that is very possible. There very well could be elements of that at play.

    By being sexually and physically abused as a child and surviving a heroin overdose of course your behaviour and perception of life and the friendships you have in it are going to be a tad abnormal to say the least. But that does not make this man an evil molester unless the OP has left something out of the story. I'm curious as to why the friend's ex won't let him see his own child.

    I'm curious as to why some of you are having such a strong reaction against the husband and his friend.

    What exactly have they done wrong, can anybody list the facts?

    Are some of those who are responding also very homophobic people and find the thought of two men being close generally very disturbing? Is that why people are uncomfortable about these men behaving as they do around the child? Is it better to hide the child away from the fact that there are gay people in the world? Or to hide her from seeing two men touching/hugging, because it might make her think it's okay to touch women in the same way?

    Miss fluff, why are you so sure these men are conducting an affair right under the wife's nose? Are we reading the same thread? Why is it dangerous for the child to be left alone with the friend who hasn't stepped out of line in a long time and who has never (that we're told) injured anybody or abused anybody's children?

    Toyota corolla, to call the friend "a degenerate waste of space" is frankly disgusting. The man certainly didnt ask to be abused as a child and for those who've been abused quite often the child becomes an adult who continues to self abuse because it's all they've ever known. It's not true in every case but I have worked with abuse victims and this story of drug abuse and self harm and sex issues rings true for many many people I have dealt with, as does confusion about sexuality.

    I think people are assuming way too much about this case. People are deciding that the husband is having an affair right there in his family home in front of the wife.

    Surely the two men had ample opportunity in the many years they've known each other to choose that life together if they so wished, before marriage and children?

    Surely a lot of the comments the wife is picking up on such as the husband saying 'my girlfriend' are being misread based on the fearful and suspicious outlook of the wife.

    Whether the husband has kissed or even slept with the friend preiously doesnt matter now. He chose to marry you op. He was fully honest and up front from the outset about how close he is to his friend. Were you as honest with him about your dislike for sex?

    There is a lot wrong in this relationship but I wouldn't bail out without talking about it first.

    Your husband sounds wonderful apart from the involvment of his friend.

    Is he really worth throwing away because your sister and a few people on here have decided he is having a gay affair?


  • #39
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,268 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Elle Collins wrote: »
    I don't think a man who treats a woman that way is worth having.
    I'd say the same of a partner who had no sexual interest in their partner (regardless of gender) tbh.

    Though, given the complexities of human sexuality (and human nature in general) these things can change and marriage counselling can be a catalyst for this. I'd encourage the OP to go into counselling with her husband with an open mind instead of seeing it as simply a tool to get her own way or to get a third party to back her up in thinking her husbands relationship with his best friend is unhealthily close. That may well be the case, tbh, it does sound a little co-dependent to me but the OP knew what she was signing up for when she married her husband.


  • #40
    Neyite
    Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Mod ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    OP, I think that the intimacy is gone in your marriage, - maybe he saw that he provoked a response from you when he did it with female friends, and since this seems to be the last friend he has left, perhaps this is why your husband is being flirty with his friend, to provoke you into fighting for him and your marriage. Not the smartest idea in the world, but maybe its the only way he knows how to get you to react to something.

    A marriage is a promise of an intimate relationship. Take away sex and you have a friendship, or flatmates. I dont understand why people who dont want a sex life, and dont intend to change that status choose to shackle someone else into a sexless relationship.

    So, there are two roads you can take. Leave the marriage, and leave him to this friend, or stay or fight for it. If you stay, then you have a have an ace up your sleeve, should you choose to use it - sex. A man is not going to drop everything in the middle of a steamy session with his wife for a mate wanting to play on the playstation. If you instigate a smoking hot sex life, your husband will be the one to choose not to hang out with the friend so much and you will not be the bad guy in the situation, in fact, quite the opposite.


  • #41
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    ToyotaCorolla wrote: »
    When the child grows up she will resent the "best friend" too and this whole situation . OP dont let any posters try to fog your judgement whats going on is unacceptable .

    Why on earth would the child resent anybody because her father hugs his best friend?? That's the most ridiculous (homophobic?) statement I've seen here yet.

    Unless the mother spends the rest of her years instilling hatred in the daughter's head, I don't think there is any child out there who will automatically resent somebody merely for their presence in their life, or because their parent cares deeply for the person. Quite the opposite I expect.

    What specifically is so unacceptable about what this man is doing?

    ToyotaCorolla wrote: »

    Here ,here Elle Collins . Some of the posters to the OP earlier on are posting out their backside- with "ah isnt it lovely how close they are". Give me a break, the husband tries to project how caring ,compassionate and understanding he is working with the Samartians etc.
    He might be better of applying some understanding towards his wife.

    I think the husband is on a power trip he likes people to rely on him, seek his advice , deep down he would probably hate if his friend got himself sorted and moved on with his life because then it would not be the way it was maybe he is trying to cling on to the past.


    Why are you so determined to blacken the husband and his actions?

    I sense a lot of homophobia in this thread. I can't put those kind of assumptions down to anything other than a deep hatred and fear of gay people, and I don't even believe there is anything 'gay' in this relationship.

    Maybe the husband is simply a good person, who is happy to help others? Maybe he's a good guy in a bad marriage? Maybe he is the one who is deeply unhappy and it has driven him closer to his best friend who he confides in about the problems in his sexless, friendless, lonely, cold marriage?

    Why would you say he is on a power trip?

    I think the husband's actions speak a lot louder here. He does work with the samaritans and other charities (as does the friend according to the OP). He has stood by his friend through thick and thin.

    HIS friends - who I imagine know him very well - see him as a wonderful man, yet people here in this thread who are simply hearing hints of what goes on behind closed doors are assuming the man is some kind of nasty, evil bastard.


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  • #42
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    8282828 wrote: »
    I've just re-read the OP's posts and I think people really are overreacting.

    I think the husband's friendship with his best buddy sounds absolutely lovely, it's a friendship I would truly long to have but unfortunately my best friend now lives overseas.

    I'm male and had a very deep bond with a childhood friend. We grew up together and became like brothers over the years. We don't see each other much now but I know there were many times through our 20s where we would lie on the couch watching TV or a film and if we were cold, we'd throw a blanket over the two of us. Is that gay now? Because back then we saw it as a way to keep warm.

    Don't you think that it's possible your husband is just very comfortable around his best friend and is relaxed enough and comfortable enough in his own sexuality that the fact that the friend may have messed around with his sexuality during his wild drug-fuelled years hasn't pushed your husband away?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brokenwife
    . He slept with anyone that would look at him, male and female. He self harmed, he put himself into situations over and over to allow himself to be abused.
    All of that is his problem, and he's dealt with it from what I can see.



    And perhaps I'm misreading, but you don't say anywhere that the friend ever had any long term gay relationships or anything of that nature. You say he allowed himself to be abused. Correct me if I'm wrong, I am speculating, but what I get from this is that the friend went through many blurry wild years (as a lot of perfectly decent people have) where he probably had a lot of one night stands and drunken wild antics. Perhaps some of this sex happened to include men. Perhaps because he was sexually abused, something psychologically drove him back to putting himself in a situation where he allowed men to have sex with him. You say he abused himself but not anybody else.

    This doesn't necessarily mean that he would ever wish to pursue a gay relationship.

    This certainly doesn't mean he would abuse your daughter (or anyone other than himself) as some people appear to be insinuating.

    Has he shown you any reason while spending time with your daughter that you feel it is a danger to leave her in his company? He is hardly the first person in the world to be around children who has dealt with some form of mental illness in the past.

    You say he has been steady and mentally okay for 18 months? Perhaps a lot of the drama and turmoil has dropped out of his life and has allowed him to finally settle down and be more steady. He is receiving on-going counselling, he seems to have worked his issues out but that's still not good enough for you or your family, because multiple times you mention his past, your lack of trust for him (I don't see anywhere he has damaged YOUR trust apart from him not telling you that his best friend had confided in him that he sent flirty text messages to someone - of course he didn't tell you, he is loyal to his friend) and how your family feel about his presence. He seems to be working very hard but his efforts certainly don't seem to be appreciated by you or your family and if he is spending such a regular amount of time with you, I'm sure he's picked up on that.




    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brokenwife
    The friend isn't all bad, he is extremely helpful with our daughter though it's taken me a long time to trust him to leave her alone with him (and I generally try not to which I know the friend picks up on)
    How do you think it feels for the friend to pick up on stuff like this? Don't you consider that your lack of faith or trust in the friend - and probable resentment - could really be upsetting him and perhaps not at all helping his mental wellbeing?



    From what I can gather he has been drug-free for 8 years now?

    This guy has had one hell of a rough deal.

    You mention the sexual abuse, the physical abuse, the breakdown of his marriage and loss of seeing his child like they are an afterthought in his life. You mention how annoying it was to have your husband talking about his friend's health all of the time. You really, really hate this poor guy, don't you?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brokenwife
    All my husband wanted to talk about was his friend’s journey, or medical stuff, and I just didn’t want to hear any more about him or his life.
    I'm getting the impression that you and your sister have been raised in a very sheltered environment, and are having the tendency to look down on those of us who have been less fortunate in life.



    Nobody chooses to be abused. Nobody chooses who their parents or family are. This poor guy probably felt he struck gold to have such a wonderful best friend who stood by him even though he probably let your husband down hugely with relapses, or whatever. And then you entered your husband's life and the friend thought that was it, that he had lost the only person who ever stood by him for good. But instead of trying to make friends with him and reassure him that you would never drive him out of your husband's life, you have done the opposite and are trying anything you can to get rid of him from your husband's life, then you wonder why he may be resentful?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brokenwife
    I think if his friend wasn't in the picture we would have the perfect life and it's wrong of me to say it but I've wished so many times he just wasn't around anymore.
    Are you insinuating that you wish he would just go ahead and kill himself? Because that is a really horrible attitude to have towards someone who has had such a raw deal in life.



    Have you at any point tried to see any of this from the friend's POV? You obviously have no experience of this 'bad background' the unfortunate friend comes from and you ought to count yourself lucky for that.




    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brokenwife
    To make matters worse our child sees him like some kind of second father as she spends so much time with him and my husband.



    Again, I find this comment upsetting. I would say your daughter is very lucky to have two men in her life who love her very much. Because one of them has had past demons should not be an issue here. Some of the best advice I ever received growing up was from my father's best friend.
    When I had a condom split and a pregnancy scare with a girl in my teens, I confided in my father's best friend. I saw him as my cooler uncle figure who could offer mature adult/parental advice without shouting at me about it and punishing me as my father would. This man has a lot of life experiences that could possibly come in useful should you allow him to be involved in your daughter's life in her teen years and later.

    You state that the friend's ex wife refuses to let him see his child. You don't think for a second that maybe the friend is compensating for the lack of access to his own child by spending time with your daughter? Did you ever think that these little things you detest are what could be getting this unfortunate man through his day?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brokenwife
    They hug constantly; my husband will always give his friend a quick squeeze around the waist or rub his arm as he walks past him. He doesn’t do this with me. They tell each other they love each other as friends every day. On the nights the friend decides to go home rather than waiting over, my husband will walk him to his car and hug him goodnight.



    I believe this is the one comment that has caused so many of those replying to come to the conclusion that these men are having some kind of seedy gay affair right under your very nose.

    I'm just not seeing that in this situation, at all.

    I'm seeing two very, very close friends, one who is weak and vulnerable, and the other who is being supportive and caring as possible.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brokenwife
    The friend was bisexual until cleaning up his ways around the time I first met him, I don’t know much about this.



    How much of this is speculation? Do you even know for a fact that the friend ever was bisexual, or are you just tainting him as overall 'dirty' because of the childhood abuse, and because he had some wild years?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brokenwife
    When I’ve begged my husband to end his relationship with this man, he has ended up breaking down in tears at the thought of not having the friend in his life


    IF you love your husband as you say you do, how could you put him through this? Why deprive him like that?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brokenwife
    All of his friends see it as adorable and see my husband as a saint for getting his friend’s life back on track. The friend regularly says that there were dozens of times he’d have taken his life or given up if not for my husband. He has no family (they sided with the sexual abuser who was a family member) and his other friends were all drug addicts so he doesn’t see them anymore.



    His friends aren't viewing him as a gay man having some seedy affair under his wife's nose. I imagine they are seeing him for exactly what he is, a very good, kind decent man. A man who volunteers for the Samaritans and helps out with other charities.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brokenwife
    Maybe if there wasn't a history of bisexuality in the friend, this wouldn't be as big an issue for me, but I have to question why my husband would allow himself to get so close to someone that can be attracted to him. Surely if this friendship was with a female, it would be totally inappropriate and if the friend is bi, is it not the same scenario?



    If you trusted your husband, you wouldn't need to worry whether his best friend is male or female. You should know your husband well enough to know if he is gay or bi. You have not indicated that you have any signs that he is other than some friends thinking he has camp mannerisms. You are digging for signs of 'gayness' that just aren't there. I really don't see anything to indicate your husband is anything more than a best friend to this man.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brokenwife
    Do I have the right to ask my husband if anything has gone on between them in the past? This is the one thing I feel I need to know.



    Of course you have the right, but I think you could look like an idiot for asking something like this, I'm sure your husband could find it quite baffling, and it could be quite embarrassing for you.

    I'd like to be seeing a little more evidence before accusing someone of anything as dramatic as a gay affair.

    Surely if your husband was conducting a gay affair he wouldn't be hugging his friend in front of you, or lying on a couch under the same duvet. Surely the fact that he does this stuff blatantly in front of you means it is innocent?

    Have you ever watched a soccer match and seen how the sportsmen behave when they score a goal? Does that make all of them gay?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brokenwife
    When we discussed this in the past my husband felt I should be thankful that his best friend is male as I had insecurity with him having female friends in the past and he cut these women out of his life (he sent flirty texts to one particular woman and she responded with nude photos), he blamed me for lack of sexual interest in him and said he texted this woman for an ego boost, we worked through it in counselling and rebuilt the trust and he no longer has contact with any women in that way.
    But maybe by stopping him from having female friends all I did was drive him even closer to his best male friend?


    So he's already cut all females out of his life, and now you want to take away his closest remaining male friend too? When you do get rid of this poor vulnerable friend, who will you eliminate from his life next? Because that's not going to fix your marriage. The problems you have probably have nothing whatsoever to do with the friend. You're just pushing your issues onto him as he's an easy target.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brokenwife
    My husband has never really shown any interest in men
    Then don't be so suspicious of his FRIENDSHIP with this man.



    It's very easy to judge situations like this from the outside and jump on the 'gay affair' soap-opera style drama wagon but sometimes there isn't anything deep and dirty just below the surface. Sometimes things really are as they seem. In this case, I think the OP is dealing with two men who are very, very close friends and that should be seen as a beautiful thing for two people to share rather than a dirty inappropriate probable affair that ought to be eliminated from the husband's life.

    OP I think you need to heed this insight/advice or at least consider it before making any further decisions.

    I think you need to sit down with your husband and talk this out as soon as possible because the longer you sit back biting your lip and watching for 'signs' of gayness, the more you will see. The more you will read into totally innocent situations. Every time your husband so much as sits too close to his friend, you will misread the situation.

    I think it's very important for your sister to back off here, and for you to evaluate the basic facts.

    Perhaps directly asking your husband about what is going on with his friend would be the best place to start. Cut out the speculation and go straight to the source.

    Get back into counselling, work out a schedule as someone suggested where his friend still gets to spend time with him but maybe not directly under your nose if it's upsetting you this much.

    Find out if there is anything untoward here before ending a marriage.

    Good luck OP


  • #43
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,357 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    micamikamoo wrote: »
    Why on earth would the child resent anybody because her father hugs his best friend?? That's the most ridiculous (homophobic?) statement I've seen here yet.

    Unless the mother spends the rest of her years instilling hatred in the daughter's head, I don't think there is any child out there who will automatically resent somebody merely for their presence in their life, or because their parent cares deeply for the person. Quite the opposite I expect.

    What specifically is so unacceptable about what this man is doing?





    Why are you so determined to blacken the husband and his actions?

    I sense a lot of homophobia in this thread. I can't put those kind of assumptions down to anything other than a deep hatred and fear of gay people, and I don't even believe there is anything 'gay' in this relationship.

    Maybe the husband is simply a good person, who is happy to help others? Maybe he's a good guy in a bad marriage? Maybe he is the one who is deeply unhappy and it has driven him closer to his best friend who he confides in about the problems in his sexless, friendless, lonely, cold marriage?

    Why would you say he is on a power trip?

    I think the husband's actions speak a lot louder here. He does work with the samaritans and other charities (as does the friend according to the OP). He has stood by his friend through thick and thin.

    HIS friends - who I imagine know him very well - see him as a wonderful man, yet people here in this thread who are simply hearing hints of what goes on behind closed doors are assuming the man is some kind of nasty, evil bastard.

    I don't think any of the responses are homophobic? I think that regardless of the friend's sexuality, the seeming intensity of this friendship is in no way normal. From the OPs posts I gather that this guy spends most nights and weekends at their home as well as tagging along on shopping trips and days out. Sorry but I would have a serious issue too if I were in that situation and I don't think there are many people who would be ok with that tbh. When do they ever get to spend time together as a family, without him being present?

    It's like the friend has become a kind of surrogate wife and appears to be fulfiling all her husbands emotional needs, leaving her out in the cold. I really don't know if anything can be done to solve this OP. Anything you say would likely send him running to his friend for advice and comfort. Could you suggest a family holiday away from the friend where you could speak to your husband?


  • #44
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    OP, just how much time is this man spending with your husband on a daily basis, or over a week?

    Is he tagging along with you on all family outings?

    Is he staying multiple nights per week in your home?

    I think that makes a difference to this situation also..


    And also why does he not have contact with the child he has had with his ex wife? Haven't they gone through the courts to arrange some kind of legal visitation or custody?


    Is your husband willing to go back into counselling with you to work through these issues?

    Were you both happy with how counselling went previously?

    Did you feel it was a success even though you have continued to live your life together with your husband sex free..?

    Do you think you could experiment with your husband sexually to get your marriage back on track, i.e. dressing up, trying new things, etc?


  • #45
    Esoteric_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,255 ✭✭✭✭Esoteric_


    First off, this is not an attack on either you or your husband, so please don't take it as such, I'm just giving an unbiased opinion as much as I can.

    I think you're both in the wrong, frankly.

    OP, I don't mean to be harsh here but you come across as extremely judgemental and downright snobbish in your posts. Yes, the guy chose to do drugs but unless you've been in a bad place mentally, as bad as this guy has because of his abuse, you cannot understand it and cannot comprehend how sometimes, it feels like drugs or other substances are the only available options to do something, anything, to get rid of the trauma and pain, at least for a few minutes. I'm not gonna lie, I've used very light drugs recreationally. Nothing like heroin or coke, though. Having been through a lot of what you describe the friend as having gone through, I can see it clearly from his point of view, and your husband's. The guy is probably deprived of love and care, and if the only person he gets it from is your husband, he is going to latch on to that because he doesn't want to be unloved and lonely (and I mean this in a purely platonic sense). I think, if I'm being totally honest, that you need to re-assess how you judge people. I've been in places similar to your husband's friend and although I've gotten through it now and am a well educated, successful, mostly happy person, there were many times I thought I'd never make it, which I'm sure the friend feels, too.

    However, I think your husband is being completely disregarding of your feelings and your needs. At the end of the day, I understand him being so close and even so touchy feely with his mate, but YOU are the person who should come first, or possibly second after your child. Once you're in a serious relationship, let alone marriage, friends come second, that's how it is and your husband needs to realise and accept that. He needs to treat you better, frankly.

    I really think that the two of you would benefit from relationship counselling, and possibly counselling on your own, because you both seem to have issues that need to be talked out and I think that maybe if you both went to counselling alone first, you could sort out in your own heads exactly what you need to express and how to express it when you go to relationship counselling.

    In short, I think you're both in the wrong, but you're both being hurt because of it and for you guys to fix things, you have to be able to talk and it seems that it would be best to have a counsellor acting somewhat as a mediator for you both to get your issues out in the open and fix things.

    Good luck.


  • #46
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Thanks again for all of your responses. This thread is really opening my eyes, I'm not a snobbish person in any way so I apologise if that's how I came across. I'm upset and maybe not expressing myself as I should.

    As regards my sex life, sex is just not something I can enjoy. It isn't a matter of changing positions or trying something new, maybe it makes me boring but I prefer to use my bed to sleep, I have long exhausting days and even if I did want sex I'm not sure I'd have the energy for it.

    Things were different up to probably the first year of marriage but I guess I had a kind of awakening that I was only ever going along with sex for the man's satisfaction while it did nothing for me as I have a very low sex drive.

    My husband took offense to this initially as he felt he'd had no problems previously and that I was insinuating he was doing something wrong but that's not the case, I just don't like sex - simple as. I don't see the point in biting my lip and going along with it though I did this for a long time.

    We talked through all of this in counselling and worked through it.

    I do see what you are saying about a loss of closeness but I find it bothersome that people will put that level of importance on a man placing his bits inside a woman. We sleep very close together when things are good, he'll hold me in my sleep all night and it's all very happy, just right now isn't good. I know my sister bugging me about this situation has dragged it all up in my mind again.

    My husband was adamant that he would never do counselling again as he came to the conclusion that it was the counsellor siding with me and he felt like two women were ganging up on him and criticising his every action. I was willing to see a male counsellor as I knew that anyone would form the same conclusions but he would not do further counselling. We did resolve the issues at that time, we continued to go to the sessions until we were both happy with the outcome but once it was over and we were back on track he swore he would never go again.

    I am having dinner with him this weekend so we can discuss this matter and I will be suggesting counselling or an end to the marriage (though that's easier said than done) but I feel like I already know he will just outright refuse to discuss this with an outside party.

    As stated above, I believe charity begins at home and while I know my husband does wonderful work to help out others I really wish he would make some of that same effort within his own home, for me.

    My sister and I have discussed in the past the co-dependency between my husband and his friend (though she didn't realise just how co-dependent until seeing them together) and she is convinced my husband never wanted his friend to get any better as he likes the friend being so dependent on him, he wouldn't be able to handle the friend taking full control of his own life again as he would be afraid the friend would mess it up. There probably is some truth to this though I'm no psychologist.

    I know for sure that the friend is bi, my husband told me this years ago. And as already mentioned my husband has joked about his friend having a crush on him, but I think it's joking about fact. In the early days of our relationship the friend was extremely jealous of me and even more clingy to my husband. He would have tried anything to get rid of me back then but I think because he's managed to get his own way and be the most important person in my husband's life, he doesn't need to interact with me at all now.

    What hurts me most is that my husband and the friend do talks to people with mental health issues and drug problems and my husband will introduce his friend to others as "the most important person in my life." Now he never uses this phrase directly to me but he knows I've overheard him use it.

    If I was to challenge him he'd tell me "it's just words to keep him happy" but everyone that's ever encountered all three of us together will comment about how fond of his friend my husband is, if we are in a crowded room his eyes will be on the friend - not me. I can't describe it properly, but it's all in his eyes and that's what upsets me most. Maybe I am reading too deep though?

    We like to attend the theatre from time to time (though rarely nowadays) and the last time we went I was all dressed up and while my husband said 'you look lovely' I felt he barely saw me as he was more distracted with the friend telling him "fix your shirt, fix your hair" before we entered the theatre. The friend had taken a female friend along with him. We happened to sit in such a way that my husband and friend were apart with me in the middle which met with endless scowling from the friend though he didn't directly say anything to me.

    Multiple times my husband leaned across me to comment on the play to his friend rather than discussing the innuendoes with me as though I wouldn't find them funny. At the break my husband was entirely concerned with watching the friend interact with the girl he'd taken with him and asking me if I thought they would get together or if the friend seemed to like her.

    Then at the end of the night he wanted to know why I was being cold to him but when I wasn't forthcoming with the answer (hoping he would figure of his own accord as it seemed blatantly obvious to me) he just turned back to his friend on the journey home asking him if he'd kissed the girl, if he liked her, if he'd meet her again.

    I discussed this with my husband a few days later and asked him why he needed to know so much about the friend's private life (as it concerned me that perhaps he didn't want the friend to enter a relationship with anyone) and he told me the opposite, that he liked the girl and would love to see the friend be with her and that she would look out for him well.

    Maybe I am reading into things too much but it's hard not to when I'm around it all of the time.


  • #47
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    telltaler wrote: »
    OP, just how much time is this man spending with your husband on a daily basis, or over a week?

    He and my husband work together (though this is combined with just hanging around watching TV together) on weekdays from 8am to 5 or 6pm. Some of the work is done from home, sometimes they go elsewhere for work, sometimes they'll just not bother working and go fishing or cycling or other fun things they enjoy.

    I work from mid morning until usually around 8pm and generally when I arrive home the friend is there watching TV or playing games with my husband or finishing off their dinner. My husband will always have dinner done for me also, but usually him, our daughter and the friend will have eaten by the time I arrive home. The friend will generally leave when I arrive home.

    There is little I can do regarding their time spent together for 'work'.

    I go to the gym usually on Wednesday and Friday nights straight after work. It is usually near or even after midnight when I get home on those nights and I go straight to bed after.

    The friend is always there on those nights and sometimes they will be doing work stuff but usually they're just having fun or cozy watching a DVD. It always catches the friend off guard if I arrive home at my normal time on a Wednesday or Friday as he expects me to be at the gym and I can see he is very settled down for the night. On those nights, if he's very settled and asleep when I arrive home my husband will say "Leave him there" ahead of waking him to go home to a flat on his own. It isn't every week but it's quite common.

    He has a room in our house that was always 'his room' before I met my husband (the house we live in has been my husband's house for many years). They lived together at various times in their 20s. It's not that we don't have the space, we have a few spare bedrooms, but I don't like the fact that he has what he sees as 'his room' as it allows him to feel more at home here and is a big part of the problem. I have attempted to redecorate it on several occasions in the past and have cleaned his stuff out of it more than once (there is very little in the room now other than a couple of pairs of his jeans in a wardrobe, but he still sees it as his). My husband doesn't understand why I'd want to remove his friend from having a presence in the house.

    We do get one holiday a year without him, though he is in regular contact with my husband via text and e-mail. My husband takes frequent business trips with him and other co-workers and I will sometimes go along too, and these trips are usually like a holiday but the friend is stuck with us all the time.

    Weekends vary, again probably depending on how much I'm around (which makes him be around less).

    Sometimes he'll be under my feet constantly. He and my husband will be working on cars (another hobby they share) and they'll be in the garage together a lot. Some weekends he doesn't show up but my husband will go meet him somewhere for lunch. Other weekends he'll be there for a while Saturday but leave us alone on Sunday. It varies, but wherever he is he's usually in touch via text with my husband, and I know if my husband or the friend had their way, he'd live in our home full time, to "save him from being alone in a cold damp flat."

    I just feel that he made his own misery in life.

    I know he didn't choose to be abused and I haven't said that for a second. But it does bother me that the abuser was a member of his family (an uncle) and that his family sided with the uncle means there may be far more to the story than anyone has questioned. I find this a very odd reaction in the family and knowing how manipulative the friend is, I would question what really happened in the friend's home.

    The friend's version is that his family accused him of lying about allegations and disowned him when he tried to bring official allegations against the uncle. His mother is a very nasty woman from the brief encounters I've had I have been shocked, she's an alcoholic with a vicious temper, but he's probably gained a lot of character traits from her. I don't know anything about his father.

    telltaler wrote: »

    Is he tagging along with you on all family outings?

    Less so than he did in the early days. He seemed to have no concept of where he was not welcome in the beginning but I blame my husband for this to some degree as he's always encouraging the friend.

    Now, unless he happens to be in the house when we decide to go shopping or such, he won't tag along.

    telltaler wrote: »
    And also why does he not have contact with the child he has had with his ex wife? Haven't they gone through the courts to arrange some kind of legal visitation or custody?

    His ex wife wasn't a very stable person in her own right, and in that particular case, the friend actually isn't to blame. His wife cheated on him frequently during their brief relationship, denied a DNA test when my husband's friend requested it, he eventually went ahead and did a test behind her back and when she found out she banned the friend from seeing the child again as she took offense to him requesting a test.

    The child did turn out to be the friend's, but he does not have access as the ex wife refuses to comply with anything.

    He seems to have just given up and never discusses the topic now, or at least not in front of me.

    It's all typical soap opera stuff that my husband's friend seems to attract with any decisions he makes in life.

    It's easy to say that he has changed his ways now, but it's hard for me to accept that after a lifetime of drama his 18 months/2 years of good behaviour will last for too long.


    LyndaMcL, I apologise if I'm offending you in any way but it is very hard for me to identify with this man and his behaviour given that I have no experience of anything in his life. I think it is perfectly fair for me to not be comfortable around drug abuse, and the likes. I have never used recreational drugs or any other substances and I don't wish to. I also don't wish to be around people who have and do. The mess of a life that has been left with my husband's friend is enough to put me off any kind of drugs for good. I'm not telling anyone what they can or can't do with their lives, I just don't want to be near it.


  • #48
    ibarelycare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,456 ✭✭✭✭ibarelycare


    Your husband doesn't want to be in a sexless marriage. You're not willing to change that.

    You don't want your husband to have his friend in his life. He's not willing to change that.

    If you don't want to change something that's a big issue for him, then why should he change something that's a big issue for you? I think you're just going to keep encountering stalemates with this marriage. It sounds like a very unhappy relationship.


  • #49
    Honey-ec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,844 ✭✭✭Honey-ec


    I can't believe the amount of people on this thread accusing the wife of being a homophobic snob who just won't let her husband have a normal friendship with this guy. There is nothing normal about his relationship with this bloke. He made a commitment to his wife when he married her and he has not followed through on that - she appears to come a very distant third behind this friend and her husband's charity work.

    Yes, the OP has issues with sex and they need to be worked on regardless, but I don't actually think they're a contributing factor here - the husband's relationship with the friend was at its current level before she ever came on the scene.

    OP, I really think you need to confront your husband about whether or not he is having a relationship (as opposed to a friendship) with this man. Everything you have mentioned so far would suggest to me that he is.

    And to all the people accusing everyone who thinks there's something up here of being homophobic - there's absolutely nothing wrong with being gay or being in a gay relationship. There is, however, something very wrong with one person in that relationship being in a straight marriage at the same time.

    And I find it very strange that pretty much every post telling the wife what a narrow-minded cow she is has been by people going unregistered.


  • #50
    Susie_Q
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Susie_Q


    Hi OP,

    The relationship between your husband and his friend is abnormal. Even with some of my closest and dearest friends there is no way that I would want to work with them all day and then spend the whole night with them as well. Married couples need time alone and this doesn't mean a dirty weekend away - it can just be quality time chatting on the couch together.

    To be very blunt, from the descriptions of their relationship you have given I would be very surprised if something was not going on between them. You don't sound happy in this relationship and it doesn't seem like it's possible for things to change. Have you given any more thought to the possibility of leaving him?

    It sounds like an awful situation and I feel terrible for you. Please keep your head held high and remember that things will eventually get better - most likely with him out of your life. Best of luck.


  • #51
    Corkblowin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 622 ✭✭✭Corkblowin


    OP, I know there are plenty more issues than your sex life with your husband. However it is one of the things that distinguishes a marriage from a very close friendship, which I'm afraid is all you have at the moment. You are entitled to your feelings and views on sex, however you must acknowledge the fact that it does have an impact on your husband.

    In fact from your posts it appears that you do not have in any way a more intimate relationship with your husband than his friend - they are more on a par as he will happily bunk down under a duvet, hug him, with plenty of touching and banter between them, all things that should be primarily reserved for his wife. So if the relationships are on a par and can only be seen as friendships as there is no special relationship between you and your husband (ie sex, intimacy etc), then I'm afraid the hard fact is that he prefers the friendship of the his mate to his friendship with you.

    So as I see it your choices are to either accept things as they are; try to rekindle you marriage to differentiate it from a strong friendship; or end the marriage and restart your life in the way you want to live it. None are easy.


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