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STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

paddy147

The amount of threads getting posted each day about stoves is unreal and taking away from other plumbing issues.

Can I suggest to the members and also the mods a dedicated "sticky" thread about stoves and nothing else.

Thanks.:)

Hi Folks. This sticky has been suggested by a regular poster and contributed to quite well. It seems to have generated a lot of interest. While advertising is not permitted under forum charter a balanced view of multiple suppliers is allowed. The rule of thumb is if you are unsure just ask. But keeping it simple and discussing the techanical details of multiple suppliers will be safe. Keep pricing out of the thread and only reply if requested to by PM -Personal message. An instant permant ban will result for breach of charter on advertising.

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tipptom

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) Is the flue it's joining too a stainless steel twin wall insulated chimney? 11 inch external and internal 9 inch? Any chance of a photo?

Stove Fan:)

Thanks for reply,its measuring 11" internal,its a square fireplace about 4 ft tall and then there is a metal tube going from the top of that out through the roof.The outer metal tube must be 2 ft wide that goes through upstairs and out through the roof beleive it or not.The chimney then goes out through a lower slant in the roof in what looks like a twin wall insulated pipe for another 2 metres approx.Unfortunatly he lives in the midlands so i have no pics.He refuses to tell me how much this was as an extra on the house but it was a disaster that smokes now and again.They brought over an expert from Germany who started on about his timber being to wet.Dont know what that had to do with his chimney on an open fire but he was hoping the stove would work for it.

avfc1874

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) This stove is a bit more shallow. It has a 24kw boiler too:)
http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/stratford-tf90b-boiler-stove.html
You have quite a few rads:cool:. What are your rad sizes, singles or doubles and we will make sure the stove is the right size for your house:) What is the room dimensions and insulation levels where the stove is being installed? We don't want to roast you alive:eek:

Stove Fan:)

we have 9 double rads 3 x47"x4". and six 4"wide average of 35" long.then we have 5 singles average 35"LONG.THE ROOM THAT THE STOVE WILL BE IN IS 12FT WLDE AND 18FT LONG. not too sure about the insulation levels its a dormer house built 6 yrs ago. thanks

Stove Fan

tipptom wrote: »

Thanks for reply,its measuring 11" internal,its a square fireplace about 4 ft tall and then there is a metal tube going from the top of that out through the roof.The outer metal tube must be 2 ft wide that goes through upstairs and out through the roof beleive it or not.The chimney then goes out through a lower slant in the roof in what looks like a twin wall insulated pipe for another 2 metres approx.Unfortunatly he lives in the midlands so i have no pics.He refuses to tell me how much this was as an extra on the house but it was a disaster that smokes now and again.They brought over an expert from Germany who started on about his timber being to wet.Dont know what that had to do with his chimney on an open fire but he was hoping the stove would work for it.

If it was a chimney for an open fire it should be ok for a stove. Best to get a stove/fireplace installer in to have a look:)

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan

avfc1874 wrote: »

we have 9 double rads 3 x47"x4". and six 4"wide average of 35" long.then we have 5 singles average 35"LONG.THE ROOM THAT THE STOVE WILL BE IN IS 12FT WLDE AND 18FT LONG. not too sure about the insulation levels its a dormer house built 6 yrs ago. thanks

I have done a rough calculation of your radiator outputs.

You are looking for a 24kw boiler stove to run your hot water and all of your rads.
On your room size you need around 4.5kw to adequately heat it.

I think the stratford TF90 is your best bet:)

Stove Fan:)

Go2Guy

Hi Macano
My father-in-law has the forge and he can't speak highly enough of it.
It has a boiler which is working great for him.
Now in my opinion:
-Yes the boiler is working very well for him and heating rads BUT his room gets very hot. I looked up the spec on it ages ago and as I remember, the kW output for the room is very high (8kW if I remember correctly).
-No it is not the most attractive looking stove on the market.

So if you have a big room for it, the forge will probably be fine for you.
I recently installed a Stanley reginald with boiler. In terms of spec it only outputs 4kW max to room which should be loads for most rooms and suits me. It is heating the rads (12 of mixed size) nicely too and was without doubt (IMO) the best looking stove on the market.

PS I don't know how the enamel finished Forge looks so maybe it's nicer than the matt which my f-i-l has.
G2G

ActingDanClark

Firstly, thanks stovefan for advice to date! To install cara inset stove I've cut the fireplace sides to increase the opening and removed the fireback. The floor of the opening is now lower than the hearth- what should I use to being it level-fire cement? Also, would the insertion of fireboard adjacent to the other faces of the stove be advisable? Thanks in advance!

Stove Fan

damian139 wrote: »

Firstly, thanks stovefan for advice to date! To install cara inset stove I've cut the fireplace sides to increase the opening and removed the fireback. The floor of the opening is now lower than the hearth- what should I use to being it level-fire cement? Also, would the insertion of fireboard adjacent to the other faces of the stove be advisable? Thanks in advance!

Hi:) For the inside of the fireplace floor mix up some concrete and trowel/float it the same level as the hearth, or just use mortar (sand and cement and water). The installer once the fire is slid in will backfill it with a sand cement or vermiculite/sand/cement mix, just damp but not wet. This will fill all the voids and top of the inset stove and insulate and stop any heat from being lost.

Stove Fan:)

Roebourne9

Hi stove fan,

finally got pic, its not great but gives idea of type of fireplace i measured the width opening and clearences and they all seem ok but will need some cutting on the top part, will know tomorrow, didnt get to talk to installer but have everything printed off and will ask questions before they start. thanks again and will let you know when its finished:D

picture.php?pictureid=10876&albumid=1875&dl=1318774266&thumb=1

Planet X

Getting the above stove installed in the next fortnight or so. Was sold on the Stovax Riva 40 but saw this one in the showroom and was smitten by it's good looks. Salesman said it was just new on the market, only out a month or so and was very similar to the Riva in function. Just looks nicer. Can't find out anything about it reviews etc on the net but hope it'll be OK.
Similar output etc, size etc. price.

Looking forward to it.

Febe9

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) From a rough calculaton of your 8 rads I calculated 13kw for a boiler stove or 45,000btu and 3.5-4kw output to the room.

I prefer steel but both have their merits. It's normal to heat the water by the stove or a seperate immersion heater. You may be able to seperate the rad and water heating from the stove depending on the stoves controls but there really wouldn't be much point as the stove has to be lit anyway. If you just want hot water light a very small fire.

Stove Fan:)

Hi Stove Fan, Thank you for your reply. I'm buzy checking out prices and sizes and will keep you posted. At least I'm armed with unbiased calculations now!!
Cheerio,
F

newbie4

Hi Stove Fan
Just wondering what you think of think of this system

A henley "the Blasket 21kw" stove
Piped into a buffer tank 300l
Of that I will be heating 5 large rads 4 small rads a couple of towel heatres and some underfloor heating hoping that it will take the work away for condenser boiler
Just wonderin what u think
will it work?
E850 for stoove by the way

glenkeo

Hi
The 21kw might be a bit big for 300l tank, stove fan should know better.
I have a 25kw boru stove in for about a year now, it heats a 1000l buffer tank (it is a tank in a tank) I usually but fire on about 6pm and the tank is normally around 60 to 65 when I am going to bed, unless we use a lot of hot water or there is a lot of demand for heat, it will still be up around 50 degrees next evening, saying that the plumber has it set up so has tank does not drop below 45degrees, in which case it will look for heat from solar(I have no panels hooked up yet), then stove and then oil, (the oil goes off at 50 degrees again) so far it is not to soar on oil or fuel for stove

avfc1874

Stove Fan wrote: »

I have done a rough calculation of your radiator outputs.

You are looking for a 24kw boiler stove to run your hot water and all of your rads.
On your room size you need around 4.5kw to adequately heat it.

I think the stratford TF90 is your best bet:)

Stove Fan:)

hi stove fan the wife has decided she'd prefer the glenmore instead of the stratford TF90 they both have simillar out put to water,but the glenmore has nearly double the out put to room 8.5kw and the stratfordTF90 has 4.5KW. i'm worried that the glenmore would overheat the sitting room which is 18ft by 12 ft. i don't want to have to leave the door open because it's to hot. thanks for any advice

Stove Fan

newbie4 wrote: »

Hi Stove Fan
Just wondering what you think of think of this system

A henley "the Blasket 21kw" stove
Piped into a buffer tank 300l
Of that I will be heating 5 large rads 4 small rads a couple of towel heatres and some underfloor heating hoping that it will take the work away for condenser boiler
Just wonderin what u think
will it work?
E850 for stoove by the way

Hi:) Just seen your post. It is quite normal to have a buffer tank of at least 1000-1500 litres. There is a ratio on boiler output and buffer tank size. It's a very specialist area and so would be best to post a query on here:http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/?CategoryID=5 Lots of well informed specialists on here:)

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan

avfc1874 wrote: »

hi stove fan the wife has decided she'd prefer the glenmore instead of the stratford TF90 they both have simillar out put to water,but the glenmore has nearly double the out put to room 8.5kw and the stratfordTF90 has 4.5KW. i'm worried that the glenmore would overheat the sitting room which is 18ft by 12 ft. i don't want to have to leave the door open because it's to hot. thanks for any advice

I think you are going to be too hot:( especially if your room the stove is in is well insulated and is not open to the stairs or you can't open double doors to another room(s) We have a room thats very well insulated thats 6.2m by 5.7 with a ceiling height of 2.8m. 4kw adequately heats this room in the coldest weather. It's a new cavity walled extension.

I don't think opening one door would be enough to cool the room.

Stove Fan:)

avfc1874

Stove Fan wrote: »

I think you are going to be too hot:( especially if your room the stove is in is well insulated and is not open to the stairs or you can't open double doors to another room(s) We have a room thats very well insulated thats 6.2m by 5.7 with a ceiling height of 2.8m. 4kw adequately heats this room in the coldest weather. It's a new cavity walled extension.

I don't think opening one door would be enough to cool the room.

Stove Fan:)

thaNks for your idvice i think we'll look again at the stratford TF90B. if you can think of any more 4.5 kw to room with 23kw to boiler stoves i'd apprieciate it. thanks again

barryd09

Hi,

I am looking for recommendations for a stove for my apartment sitting room.
Its not a large room so I understand 5kw is plenty.
It'll be a non boiler type stove,infront of my original fireplace.
My questions are as follows:

My budget for the actual unit is €400-500 plus fitting & extras.
What are the extras needed to fit a stove? The flue is one obviously,anything else?

How much for fitting a stove,in general? Ball park figure?

Could anyone recommend a stove in my range of €400-500?
Also,Im in Galway,anyplace recommended in the city?
I know of gordons in ballinasloe & also murphys in kinvara,are these the best suppliers in the west/galway or is there some ive missed?

Many thanks!

Planet X

Phone them up and I'm sure they'll pop out and gladly give you a quote. Takes the guess work out of it.
That's what I did recently, been humming and hawing about it for months. They came out, advised and they've got the gig. Expensive but a longterm investment.

Heat!

avfc1874

hi does anyone know how to work out the output to water from your rads i think i need about 20kw for these radiators. doubles 5x800mm.2x1400mm.1x1200mm and1x60. and singles 3x600mm.1x1400mm and 1x700mm they are all 500mm high any help would be appreciated

potter on

Hi,

My living room is 18x11x8, and I have 8 radiators in the house.
1. one 50x119 single
2. two 50x96 single
3. two 50x64 single
4. one 50x107 single
5. two 50x128 double

would a stanley cara boiler type insert stove be enough to heat up the room and radiators?

thanks.

Stove Fan

Hi potter on and avfc.

Have a look at the outputs for the sizes you have on this site:)

http://www.inspiredheating.co.uk/acatalog/DELONGHI_COMPACT_RADIATORS.html

If you have double rads click doubles then select your rad height and then go through and find the length and write down its kw rating.

Add them all up and add 3kw for a standard sized hot water cylinder.

Stove Fan:)

goat2

Rob_talisman wrote: »

Unfortunatley neither of those two stoves are reviewed on that site...

Good news is the hunter glass is flat, no curves and replacement is <£20.

Hmmm decisions desicions.

i bought the causeway stove with boiler, and i do not see it on the list

potter on

hi Stove Fan,

Did a calculation using the website you provided, looks like we'll need between 11-12KW output in total. the stanley cara only provides 8KW, a bit short. I guess we should get one that is adequate rather than one which is short in terms of output. Thanks for your help

Stove Fan

potter on wrote: »

hi Stove Fan,

Did a calculation using the website you provided, looks like we'll need between 11-12KW output in total. the stanley cara only provides 8KW, a bit short. I guess we should get one that is adequate rather than one which is short in terms of output. Thanks for your help

Hi:) Buying a boiler stove that matches your required output is best or one thats a bit bigger if only burning wood and turf.

Stove Fan:)

Reyman

I have a bungalow and I'm hoping to put in a stove with 6/7kw output. I'd like to get one with a boiler included to heat the water in the cylinder, which is only 4/5 feet away. The heat split would be 3kw to room / 3kw to the cylinder/water

A couple of questions:
1. It's a bungalow so the cylinder is at the same level as the stove and I don't think a 'gravity' flow heating of the water will work? Does anyone know a way of overcoming this (without raising the cylinder, which would be pretty difficult)?
2. What 'head' do those gravity water heating systems need to work properly?
3. I seem to remember in the old days that gravity water heating back boilers were always made of copper because of problems if dissimilar metals were used with constantly changing water. eg copper pipes/cylinder and steel boiler. Is this not a problem anymore?

Stove Fan

Reyman wrote: »

I have a bungalow and I'm hoping to put in a stove with 6/7kw output. I'd like to get one with a boiler included to heat the water in the cylinder, which is only 4/5 feet away. The heat split would be 3kw to room / 3kw to the cylinder/water

A couple of questions:
1. It's a bungalow so the cylinder is at the same level as the stove and I don't think a 'gravity' flow heating of the water will work? Does anyone know a way of overcoming this (without raising the cylinder, which would be pretty difficult)?
2. What 'head' do those gravity water heating systems need to work properly?
3. I seem to remember in the old days that gravity water heating back boilers were always made of copper because of problems if dissimilar metals were used with constantly changing water. eg copper pipes/cylinder and steel boiler. Is this not a problem anymore?

Our property is a bungalow and I fitted the hot water cylinder in the loft. It's about 6m away from the stove and works great. I fitted the oblong coffin cold water tank as near the ridge to get decent flow to the taps.
If placing the cylinder in the loft is not possible due to height fit the cylinder as high to the ceiling as possible with the cold tank in the loft. Or if no room for tank fit a combination tank and cylinder.

If you only want to run hot water from the stove I would go for a direct cylinder but make sure the clip in boiler is stainless steel, the direct cylinder would probably heat up quicker as the water in the cylinder and inside the stoves stainless steel boiler is the same water that goes to the hot taps. . If you fit a steel boiler make sure the cylinder is an indirect one with coil.

The old set up was probably a cast iron boiler linked to a steel or copper direct cylinder. This would result with rusty coloured water out the hot taps as fresh water would constantly being introduced along with oxygen and rust the cast iron boiler internally. To prevent this either fit a stainless steel back boiler or fit an indirect cylinder with coil. Also steel and alluminium should not be mixed.

Almost any small 7kw stove can come with a clip in boiler.

Stove Fan:)

Reyman

Thanks Stovefan - that's a useful lot of information, though I can't see myself putting the cylinder in the attic. It was freezing up there last winter because it's very well insulated to keep the house warm.
I take your comment on using indirect heating of the cylinder by gravity - it would be pretty inefficient versus circulating the water directly through the boiler.
Do you happen to know what height of a head is needed for gravity circulation to work? Have you ever heard of anyone putting a pump in the circuit to get over the problem? Are gravity circuits usually thermostatically controlled?

Stove Fan

Reyman wrote: »

Thanks Stovefan - that's a useful lot of information, though I can't see myself putting the cylinder in the attic. It was freezing up there last winter because it's very well insulated to keep the house warm.
I take your comment on using indirect heating of the cylinder by gravity - it would be pretty inefficient versus circulating the water directly through the boiler.
Do you happen to know what height of a head is needed for gravity circulation to work? Have you ever heard of anyone putting a pump in the circuit to get over the problem? Are gravity circuits usually thermostatically controlled?

Hi so long as the cylinder is above the stove even just enough so that the top cylinder coil is above the stoves flow outlet, the cylinder will work fine with gravity flow. The pipe from the stoves top outlet to the cylinder has to always rise to the top connection on the cylinder. It would be better though if you could fit the cylinder in a cupboard at the side of the fireplace about 1m higher than the stove.

Its not adviced to pump the water to the cylinder as the cylinder acts as a heat leak radiator to dissipate any excess heat if there was a powercut and the pump stopped. Gravity circuits are not usually thermostatically controlled in just heating the water only and have no pump to circulate the water.

Our cylinder and cold tank is in the loft although our ecowool loft insulation is only 200mm in parts and 400mm in other areas, and so do lose some heat to the loft in that very cold spell. None of the pipes froze so that was something.

Stove Fan:)

Reyman

Thanks Stovefan. I'll have to shift the cylinder, which has about half dozen pipes going into it!
By the way you said I should go for the stainless steel boiler - presumably this avoids any issues with corrosion?
Is there any difference between the built in boilers and the clip on ones offered by some manufacturers?

Stove Fan

Reyman wrote: »

Thanks Stovefan. I'll have to shift the cylinder, which has about half dozen pipes going into it!
By the way you said I should go for the stainless steel boiler - presumably this avoids any issues with corrosion?
Is there any difference between the built in boilers and the clip on ones offered by some manufacturers?

If you are only ever interested in a stove for heating hot water then buy one with a clip in stainless steel boiler and a direct hot cylinder.

If you want to run rads as well then a stove with a wraparound boiler in steel will be fine so long as the hot water cylinder is indirect (with coil)

With regards to built in and clip in boilers. The majority of built in boilers are made of steel and so would be unsuitable for a direct system.
The clip in boiler is smaller and can be bought in either steel or stainless steel and is sized for heating the hot water cylinder only. The latter is what you want.

If you only want hot water buy a 3kw clip in stainless steel boiler.

Stove Fan:)