ReacherCreature wrote: » You been livin' under a rock DT?
iceage wrote: » Yes I can Touts..How long have you got? But by the sounds of your post I'd be totally wasting my time, wouldn't I?
touts wrote: » Can someone please explain to me why a few lads running around playing soldiers is so critical to the town at a time when more vital services like the hospital is under threat.
What exactly does the barracks bring to Clonmel beyond a few extra lads shopping in Tesco?
iceage wrote: » Correct Davejac Kilkenny is one of them. Kickham seems to be only one barracks on a list of others facing closure. Its impact will be felt for sure thoughout the town as well as the families being directly effected lets not forget about the beleagued businesses and traders of the town that have been dealing with the barracks for countless numbers of years and rely on them heavily for their trade not to mention all the other Civvie empoyees of the barracks. This is just another kick in the teeth and I reckon that we're going to see more businesses closing their doors as a direct effect of the closure, a point I fear that touts has missed altogether I reckon. Touts you have a right to your opinion this is after all an open forum and as to your point about the hospital I totally agree you are correct. But.. As to the industries that surround Clonmel, which do you refer too? Is it Boston who rattled recently but settled everyone's cough with a cheque for millions recently.. Said mayor reckons he had a hand in it. Did he f*ck. Is it Abbott who advertised and took on 95 people with the majority from outside the town! MSD down the round also just opened their new R&D extension worth X million yoyos as well. All three Company's are Pharma/medical devices and American and were enticed and suckled for the tax incentives that this Country offers but lets not forget what happened when Seagate upped sticks and swanned off shall we. If I was to have a bitch about "local Industries" I'd be more put out about the likes of company's such as JRE who just folded with the loss of 147 employees and what does the powers that be concentrate on? The latest extension to the waste of space white elephant that is the Showgrounds.. of course that's what clonmel needs, more takeaways, Womens fashion boutiques and bloody €2 discount stores. As to your description of what the Army does and Kickham Barracks's, how did you put it "a few lads running around playing soldiers input to the local economy of Clonmel smacks of ill informed drivel and truthfully a very narrow minded outlook. Either that or your just trying to cause an argument, which is it?
touts wrote: » So it's won't someone think of the families.
I ask again why is the barracks that important. If we pensioned off the lads in there on full pensions (even full pay) we would save millions in equipment and upkeep (very little of which I suspect is manufactured in Clonmel or is contracted to Clonmel businesses). That wouldn't hurt the families and would still save the taxpayer a lot of money. And if we stood down the army in Clonmel it is not as if the Huns will come streaming through the unguarded Vee. Arm more Gardai and I can see no need for the Army.
I see little of either but am willing to listen if someone can put forward a sensible coherent argument.
ReacherCreature wrote: » touts wrote: » So it's won't someone think of the families. Obviously it's a factor. I ask again why is the barracks that important. If we pensioned off the lads in there on full pensions (even full pay) we would save millions in equipment and upkeep (very little of which I suspect is manufactured in Clonmel or is contracted to Clonmel businesses). That wouldn't hurt the families and would still save the taxpayer a lot of money. And if we stood down the army in Clonmel it is not as if the Huns will come streaming through the unguarded Vee. Arm more Gardai and I can see no need for the Army. It's actually ironic touts. You ask for this: I see little of either but am willing to listen if someone can put forward a sensible coherent argument. and then put forward a ridiculously irrelevant piece of history forward that has zero context.
iceage wrote: » Ok Touts just as an exercise, lets say the barracks closes(not a case of if but when really) and all the boys playing soldiers go away to some other barracks in some other town and spend their money elsewhere, what would you suggest be done with Kickham Barracks? just for sh*ts and giggles like.
touts wrote: » Stop spending taxpayers money on it. Strip out what can be moved to the Curragh. Mothball the rest. Send a couple of lads over from Kilkenny or Limerick to cut the grass and spray the weeds and guard it at night to prevent squatters moving in. We are paying them anyway so better guard duty and gardening in Clonmel than peacekeeping in Beruit. Eventually sell the land, buildings and contents, whole or in pieces, as soon as someone offers a fair price. Oh and can you please give a figure of what the barracks brings in to the clonmel economy given there: are not that many soldiers there. They earn feck all, most of them are single and live, are fed and socialise on the base. Supplies are centrally sourced with contracts from the Curragh. The military equipment comes from european arms manufacturers. So please give a figure for what they add to the Clonmel economy versus what JRE added to the Clonmel economy. Please answer that. Just for sh*ts and giggles like.
iceage wrote: » Sorry no can do, I'm not privy to those figures tell you what give the barracks a bell and ask for the Commandant, I can PM you the name and number if you'd like? I thought you'd have a far better idea than just redeploying lads from Sarsfields and Kilkenny to babysit the place frankly I'm rather dissapointed. Wouldn't it make more sense to say offer it to the Guards? They're looking for a new pad so I'm told, so rather than spend anymore taxpayers money on building a multi million euro black hole of a building site with no idea what the final figure will be, lets renovate the place, give it a lick of paint, build some higher walls, its even got its own gym and heli pad! Sure the lads wouldn't know themselves once they's settled in. Your disrespectful remarks and opinion of the members of this Country's Defense forces is really starting to grate Touts. What they earn is what they earn laid down by the Government, extra paid duties are bloody rare and as to peacekeeping overseas..that's part of the job, don't knock it. For your information every Army purchases from other Countries Ireland gainfully exports military hardware and has done for years.
touts wrote: » OK since no one is able to put forward the argument to keep the barracks open let me summarise the information contained in the articles and the youtube interview. Make of them what you will:Economic The councilors claim that the value to the town might be €4million or €5million or possibly up to €6million if you include St Michael's hospital in the figures. The Soldiers wives claim that €10 million a year will be lost to the town An expert who had researched the figures said that the government will save over €200,000 a year by closing the barracks but it will cost over €4million to relocate the soldiers to Limerick. There are 220 soldiers, if not more, in the barracks plus a secretary and the staff in the board of works located on the barracks might lose their jobs. Several FCA camps come in during the summer and they spend their money around the town. All the businesses around the area would be impactedStrategic It helps recruitment to the army reserves The barracks helps to move people during the floods. The barracks are the only service on standby on christmas day if there is snow or ice. Helicopters can land there safely for organ transplant etc when the helicopter might not be safe to leave parked in the GAA field or similar. They protect bank deliveries They do a lot of other secret work that can't be discussed even with their families.Families The men need to be close to their children. The family as a whole will be impacted. It will cost 3000 to 4000 a year for the families to commute to Limerick/Kilkenny/Cork They are already seeing cuts in pay via pension levy etc which has seen their wages drop by €200 a week. It will cost over €150 a week in petrol or diesel to commute to Limerick. They can't get loans from the bank to buy cars to commute to Limerick They will get €1000 compensation for the move which will not be enough to allow the family relocate especially if the wife is working and would have to leave her job. What happens if a husband and wife both work in the barracks and are moved and are rostered to be on duty at the same time.Historical It would break 350 years of military presence in the townSocial It is good for large celebrations like the recent parish celebration.Political campaign: There is a committee of 10 that seems to be mainly wives of soldiers There was a meeting with officially 300 people but unofficially the committee estimate 500 people were there The Mayor and all the councilors support keeping the barracks All the local TDs support it except apparently Tom Hayes who they are "disappointed with" The campaign will continue with support from local groups. There will be a march in the town on 22nd October starting from Irish town to Parnell street The wives committee will not give up without a fight.
DT100 wrote: » You said no one could give an argument why the barracks should stay open,then posted the argument from the links given.What else do you think the articles are if not the argument.I guess you wont be on the march Saturday?I hope if you ever need support in the case of your employment under threat,that you get more than you are giving in this instance.
touts wrote: » And no one has other than pointing to a few articles with vague figures seemingly plucked out of the air by councillors and a video of an interview with the wives of the soldiers who are actually making an argument (although some of their figures look to be a little exaggerated). Since no one here seems to know anything about the cause they are arguing for I decided to summarise the argument of the wives for people who don't have the time to listen to the 15 minute interview. And my employment has been under threat, has been lost and as an employee in the private sector my current employment remains constantly under threat in the current economic climate.
DT100 wrote: » To be honest,I thought your posts were condescending.I am glad that you are currently employed.I would hate to see any job under threat,be it private or public sector.Maybe your posts are not condescending,but more of an anger at the public sector????
