‘OCCUPY Wall Street’ protestors on Dame Street

Mar 2011 http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/perks-take-ilp-bankers-over-the-euro500000-pay-cap-2573571.html

Permabear wrote: »

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I think I was not the first to use the term hammered, I was echoing your use of it in relation to cuts to pensions

THE Department of Finance is investigating the payment of a secret €500,000 bonus to a senior figure in Bank of Ireland.

The Irish Independent has learned the payment was made to the executive in Bank of Ireland Asset Management (BIAM) in recent days -- without the knowledge of Finance Minister Brian Lenihan.

Dec 2010 http://www.independent.ie/national-news/probe-into-euro500000-secret-bank-bonus-2465716.html

An investigation by the Department of Finance into bonuses paid to executives at Bank of Ireland has found that the bank misled the State and the taxpayer.

It has emerged Bank of Ireland paid €4.3m in bonuses to staff since the introduction of the bank guarantee in 2008.

Another €600,000 will be paid in bonuses this year; another €200,000 in 2012.

The bank also said that €11m may have to be paid to 250 workers this year under certain bonus categories.

It hasn't been a great couple of years for corporate bankers in Ireland, what with redundancies, pay cuts and the whole finger-pointed-for-the-country's-economic-meltdown thing. But their situation is starting to look up.

Salaries for commercial and corporate bankers have actually increased over the course of 2010, on the back of greater demand for their services.

The rise is most pronounced at the senior end; relationship managers with over five years' experience can now expect €85-100k (up from €69-85k last year), according to the 2011 Robert Walters Salary Survey. But, as the table below shows, pay has increased across the board, from junior credit analysts to senior assistant relationship managers.

Feb 2011 http://news.efinancialcareers.ie/NEWS_ITEM/newsItemId-31040

TWO senior executives at Irish Life & Permanent enjoyed earnings above the €500,000 banking pay cap last year, as car allowances and other perks bulked up their salaries.

The €538,000 package of IL&P boss Kevin Murphy is revealed in the bancassurer's 2010 annual report, which also shows that finance chief David McCarthy enjoyed total remuneration of €514,000.

Both men's salaries were in line with the pay cap on state-supported banks, with Mr Murphy's on the button at €500,000 and Mr McCarthy following closely behind with €497,000.

Mr Murphy's salary was supplemented with a €34,000 benefit in kind -- believed to relate to a company car and health premiums -- plus €4,000 in "other" benefits, linked to permanent health insurance.

Mr McCarthy's benefit in kind came in at €31,000, while he also booked €4,000 in "other" remuneration.

BANK OF Ireland chief executive Richie Boucher received a top-up to his pension of €1.49 million last year. This was part of a total remuneration package worth €1.99 million for the bank boss.

Apr 2010. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0417/1224268543242.html

No bonuses and salary cuts across the banking sector you say?

Manach

Permabear wrote: »

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The jobless.
Apart from that, I'd agree with you on the emotive language issue.

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Permabear wrote: »

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Nobody has hammered the handful of bankers and TDs - full stop.

I have no problem with cuts being made. I have no problem with inefficiencies in the PS sector being halted, or redundancies made. I have no problem with SW cuts being made. In fact - I was a front-line PS worker. My contract was cut. At the age of 46 I had to claim SW for the first time in my life. I got my first PAYE job when I was 15. 31 years of PRSI payments and I was made to feel like a begger. Yet, Ahern can have his exorbitant phone bill paid!

I do have a problem with No equivalent measures being taken against the 1 % - the bankers, the top civil servants, the TDs, the quango directors, the developers.

ballyharpat

In theory, this 'occupation' sounds great, in reality, there are more dole scroungers and SW recipients up there looking out for themselves, saying 'no, don't cut my dole, I don't want to have to get a job, if I did I wouldn;t be able to hang out here and do sweet FA all day every day.'
Get off your arse and get a job. Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.

I would love to be up there to protest the cronyism, the high wages paid to Quangos, etc. But I would also like to be up there protesting the high rate of SW and Rent Allowance. I would be up there saying stop any sort of a bailout for people that lived beyond their means. Those that couldn't see past the end of their nose as they took out 200k mortgages on 30k salaries.

After watching Frontline last night, I am sick of watching these people. One couple was only paying $632 month of a mortgage, they had it reduced to 210 a month and now they are worrying about how they'll pay when it goes back to the original sum. If they have both been out of work for 2+ years, how do they expect to own a house????
The other couple bought an apartment, then decided to have a kid, now they are unhappy that they live in an apartment......
Then the poor single lady that bought a e1,000,000 house and now can't make the payments.....ya think???? wow,

I'm no genius, but stupidity knows no boundaries...

I do not want anything to do with these people and their sense of entitlement and lack of self responsibility, yet they want the government to take responsibility!!!

Grow up, stop being so naive, working to try and have a better life for myself, I vote for who I think will do the best job, but unfortunately, politicians, the world over, always have been, and are, crooked.

Excuse me while I throw up......

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Jippohead wrote: »

If people saw a little accountability in Ireland, they might not feel sick to their stomachs when taking pay cuts

ABSO****INGLUTELY!!!

Jippohead

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's not just about fixing the economy, no one expects a quick fix. It's about moral conscience. The bankers and politicians don't deserve to have their wages payed by the taxpayer after they screwed up so much. It feels like we're rewarding incompetence and corruption. They deserve to experience the sh*t they've forced on the rest of us.

Don't you agree that the people who caused this crap should be punished for it? We can't do it within the legal system apparently, why don't we do it by stopping the outrageous amount of money they still get, which their own incompetence and corruption has deprived everyone else of?
We OWN Anglo, We pretty much OWN the Irish banking system We should INSIST that anyone whose corruption had a hand in creating this mess simply be FIRED, without any kind of golden handshake.

Sounds harsh? It is. But so is the reality facing hundreds of thousands of unemployed, debt ridden Irish people because of the unbelievable criminality these assholes have so far gotten away with scot free.

Ireland: Where you can utterly screw the entire system up and get rewarded for it. The reward comes out of the pockets of Irish taxpayers.

While I see the points that both sides are making, the above post is exactly how I feel. Why are so called experts and professionals not held accountable for being extremely incompetent at best, or downright dishonest and criminal at worst? (what I believe).

Yes, people who took out massive loans were idiotic and made mistakes, but is the entire population expected to be financial experts? Is it fair that people who perpetrated fraud are allowed to lounge about as millionaires?

Why are people so eager to hammer on old-age pensioners and students, like they're the cause of the meltdown exclusively?

If people saw a little accountability in Ireland, they might not feel sick to their stomachs when taking pay cuts etc etc.

Lads. We all decide for ourselves if we want to participate or not. At least we have a choice when in comes to the protest. None of our recent governments have ever given us a choice - from referenda on Treaties to Bank Bail-Outs.

So

We stop being so fecking spineless and can speak up

or

We can kvetch about how useless it is, how the 'demands' are wrong, how cutting politicians salaries won't help pay the bond holders, how lets play private sector vs public sector is a far more important issue .... ever heard of divide and rule?

I'll be at Occupy Cork.

hatrickpatrick

It's not just about fixing the economy, no one expects a quick fix. It's about moral conscience. The bankers and politicians don't deserve to have their wages payed by the taxpayer after they screwed up so much. It feels like we're rewarding incompetence and corruption. They deserve to experience the sh*t they've forced on the rest of us.

Don't you agree that the people who caused this crap should be punished for it? We can't do it within the legal system apparently, why don't we do it by stopping the outrageous amount of money they still get, which their own incompetence and corruption has deprived everyone else of?

We OWN Anglo, We pretty much OWN the Irish banking system We should INSIST that anyone whose corruption had a hand in creating this mess simply be FIRED, without any kind of golden handshake.

Sounds harsh? It is. But so is the reality facing hundreds of thousands of unemployed, debt ridden Irish people because of the unbelievable criminality these assholes have so far gotten away with scot free.

Ireland: Where you can utterly screw the entire system up and get rewarded for it. The reward comes out of the pockets of Irish taxpayers.

Lockstep

I can dig politicians and highly paid civil servants could do with a paycut but I don't get this assumption that if we do this, our economy will fix itself. What they earn is a drop in the public finances ocean. At best it's setting an example but it doesn't fix the glaring problems we face.

It worries me when I agree with Permabear :pac:

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meglome wrote: »

Hang on now they have very specifically laid out what their goals are. And as has been pointed out their goals are nonsense. It's like when the unions here went on marches over the last few years, I just couldn't join in as I disagreed with them wholeheartedly. Though at the same time I saw the need for protests on some issues, just different ones to the unions.

There are many things stated in this thread I'd happily join a protest about, you mentioned many of them. I see no point though in joining a protest who's stated aims I do not agree with and cannot work. You can't just decide the protest is about whatever you want it to be about, it either supports your stated goals or it doesn't. And right now it doesn't.

Did you read the report from Dame Street I quoted passages from (#124)? You will see that the author echoes my views and that is why he was there. If you want to protest about some of the same things I said disturb me (or other things I didn't mention....!) - get down there and have your say. Get your ideas on the agenda!

But if you want to say ...'ah, sure the 4 things I read are pants like so I won't bother' even though it has been made very clear that everyone has the right to have an input.

If you decline to have that input into the aims of the protest - you can't really complain about the aims now can you?

I think the 4 points are wishy-washy, unfocused and really just snappy slogans. However, I do think there are serious issues that need to be highlighted and government made aware that a lot of people - people who are not 'activists' - ordinary people who are fed up of the continuing lack of change, the continuing lack of accountability, the continuing lack of taking responsibility for decisions being made now bar blaming either a)the previous government and/or b) IMF/ECB and want to send a clear and unambiguous message that we will not rest until things start to really change.

As the article made clear - I am not the only one.

I intend to have my input as I am tired of being silent. I am tired of broken election promises. I am tired of the hypocrisy of highly paid politicians and senior civil servants preaching about the need for austerity while taking no appreciable hit to their own financial positions. I am tired of the secrecy of NAMA and now NewEra. I am tired of reading about bankers bonuses continuing. I am tired of hearing we must all tighten our belts so SNAs will be cut, garda stations in rural areas will close, hospitals will shut wards and emergency services while our elected representatives continue to get a generous allowance just for turning up to work.

I have reached my breaking point and will no longer remain silent.

We must each decide what we can and cannot live with.

I can no longer live with myself if I remain a good little worker bee who pays her taxes, pays her bills, pays her mortgage and knuckles down to help pay for lax regulation, snouts in the trough and unbridled greed by a small elite. An elite who were protected by the previous government and are still being protected by the current one.

Scofflaw

20Cent wrote: »

If the ECB/IMF told us to wear our underpants on the outside Scofflow would be on here telling us why we have to do it and we have no choice.

Sick of the smart ass negative bull**** from a lot of the posters on boards.ie the "libertarian" retard element have made it impossible to discuss anything.

I resign!!!!!!!1

Again.

As I said, if those who want to do something different had a credible plan rather than representing various interest groups who want a bigger share of the pie, or being muppets who would fail a primary school economics class, I'd happily support that alternative.

But that hasn't happened - and I appreciate that those who believe their plans are credible may find that a little insulting - and that's why all the protests we've been told will 'gather steam' and eventually blow the whole rotten mess to kingdom come instead peter away into irrelevant obscurity.

cordially,
Scofflaw

meglome

20Cent wrote: »

If the ECB/IMF told us to wear our underpants on the outside Scofflow would be on here telling us why we have to do it and we have no choice.

Sick of the smart ass negative bull**** from a lot of the posters on boards.ie the "libertarian" retard element have made it impossible to discuss anything.

I resign!!!!!!!1

Again.

I started this thread and one of the main reasons was I was so incredulous about what they were doing. I agree with the need to protest and there are lots of things to protest about. Yet somehow they managed to pick a set of things that are bull**** or imaginary. I mean come the **** on, of all the things going on and they couldn't find some actual real life legitimate targets. Sweet jesus.

meglome

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Those 'demands' are not written in stone. They are not a manifesto. They are the demands of people who have at least had the courage to make some demands. Yes, they are vague and aspirational (and a bit too new age/hippy for my tastes). That will not prevent me from adding my voice - with my 'demands'. In fact, I would go so far as to say now I must add my voice and strive to bring a more focused and practical list to the fore. I know I am not alone.

My motivation is not what is on a ' 4 point plan' - my motivation is the continuing existence of the same-oh crap as we always had. If I don't stand up and say that - what right have I complain when that same-oh is still with us in 20/30/40 years?

Hang on now they have very specifically laid out what their goals are. And as has been pointed out their goals are nonsense. It's like when the unions here went on marches over the last few years, I just couldn't join in as I disagreed with them wholeheartedly. Though at the same time I saw the need for protests on some issues, just different ones to the unions.

There are many things stated in this thread I'd happily join a protest about, you mentioned many of them. I see no point though in joining a protest who's stated aims I do not agree with and cannot work. You can't just decide the protest is about whatever you want it to be about, it either supports your stated goals or it doesn't. And right now it doesn't.

You know what they say about heat and kitchens!

20Cent

Scofflaw wrote: »

Give us your money and sod off, because we're so good at managing our economy there's no risk?

amused,
Scofflaw

If the ECB/IMF told us to wear our underpants on the outside Scofflow would be on here telling us why we have to do it and we have no choice.

Sick of the smart ass negative bull**** from a lot of the posters on boards.ie the "libertarian" retard element have made it impossible to discuss anything.

I resign!!!!!!!1

Again.

There's always money in the banana stand!

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Scofflaw

20Cent wrote: »

I see where the confusion is. You take getting the troika out of Irish affairs as meaning all their loans etc whereas I took it to mean to stop their dictating to the gov about where to make cuts and how much to cut and forcing us to pay private debt.

Give us your money and sod off, because we're so good at managing our economy there's no risk?

amused,
Scofflaw

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FionnK86

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Its worse than that @Permabear

They are blaming the financial sector when the should be directing their anger at politicians,
it was politicians who decided on regulation issues,
it was politicians who moved the world financial system of gold standard,
it was politicians who got to influence central bank to flood the world with cheap money,
it was politicians who decided to bailout banks instead of letting the rotten apples fall

IT WAS US WHO VOTED FOR THEM!Since 1921 in Dail Eireann, if you didnt agree with their policies vote against them, if they were still in government then you obviously aren't in the majority.Its democracy.The worst form of government apart from all the others:)

Dr Galen

20Cent wrote: »

I see where the confusion is. You take getting the troika out of Irish affairs as meaning all their loans etc whereas I took it to mean to stop their dictating to the gov about where to make cuts and how much to cut and forcing us to pay private debt.

The organgrinder usually controls the monkey in fairness

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20Cent wrote: »

I see where the confusion is. You take getting the troika out of Irish affairs as meaning all their loans etc whereas I took it to mean to stop their dictating to the gov about where to make cuts and how much to cut and forcing us to pay private debt.

So you think they're just going to loan the money unconditionally then?
I don't see Troika forcing us to pay private debt either.

FionnK86

Im a student and Id rather just get the head down for the next year instead of protesting...I think the "occupy Dame Street" all around Newbridge was stupid...get your own protesters from the city.. half of us dont know where Dame Street is:P

20Cent

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

What on Earth are you talking about? I'm not the one sleeping in the streets saying EU/IMF out.

It's not my "highly unlikely hypothetical situation", it's yours.

I see where the confusion is. You take getting the troika out of Irish affairs as meaning all their loans etc whereas I took it to mean to stop their dictating to the gov about where to make cuts and how much to cut and forcing us to pay private debt.