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Child Item

Man gets 2 months jail for racial abuse

Phenomenally Phrank

Saw this in the news today; Basically, a 61 year old man was sentenced to 2 months jail for telling a black electoral candidate that he was 'sick of black people' and more.

Ok, the way I see this: Yes, Mr Walsh was probably an asshole, and racial abuse is pretty nasty, but does he really need to go to jail for 2 months? over a couple of phrases? I see this as an attack on free speech, regardless of what was said. It seems that over here and in Europe, its "free speech for all, so long as noone gets offended":rolleyes:

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28064212

Wertz wrote: »

...at the expense of trial beyond a reasonable doubt?

...what? "Beyond reasonable doubt" is part of the legislation.

Wertz wrote: »

As far as I can see here, it's was word and against word, I don't see any de facto evidence of the abuse cited (third party independent statements, recordings of abuse etc.).

But you weren't at the trial. The court, who did have access to all the evidence presented, found him guilty beyond reasonable doubt

Wertz

No I wasn't. Were you?

28064212

Wertz wrote: »

No I wasn't. Were you?

...no, which is why I believe the court's verdict, because they were there

CreepingDeath

MagicMarker wrote: »

Well, that's one of the dumber posts I've seen recently.

Maybe I should've added a smiley face for people like you who take it seriously. :rolleyes:

El Horseboxo

I was sticking leaflets in doors recently around my area for a summer camp for my hurling club. I didn't see a no junk mail sticker and threw one into the porch. The fella chased after me and let rip with a tirade of racial abuse. Only that I had 2 young players helping me that he didn't see I would've hit him upside the head. Hmm wonder if I can get him imprisoned. How does one go about proving it? Is it my word against his? Is me being brown an advantage? Finally white ain't all right.

Wertz

28064212 wrote: »

...no, which is why I believe the court's verdict, because they were there

I'm a little more cynical in my views of the Irish judicial system than you then.
Jailing someone for 2 months for such a trifling offence smacks of being seen to be tough on such dangers to our society as casual racism...when those accused of assault, robbery and other such actual crimes, get suspended sentences on a regular basis in our court system.
But racial incidents (more especially involving a political candidate) carry more weight and column inches than actual crime.
If this was a run of the mill immigrant being told to f*ck off or whwtaever in day to day happenings, this wouldn't have even made it to a garda statement let lone a courthouse...

reprazant

Wertz wrote: »

I
Jailing someone for 2 months for such a trifling offence smacks of being seen to be tough on such dangers to our society as casual racism...when those accused of assault, robbery and other such actual crimes, get suspended sentences on a regular basis in our court system.

You say that is was a 'trifling offence' but I wonder if you would have thought the same if two people came up to you, one abusing you in such a way while the other telling you to leave the area or you will be killed. Trifling indeed.

Also, just because some cases of assault, robbery and other such "actual crimes" (:rolleyes:) get different sentences, does not therefore mean that all crimes should get smaller sentences.

28064212

Wertz wrote: »

I'm a little more cynical in my views of the Irish judicial system than you then.
Jailing someone for 2 months for such a trifling offence smacks of being seen to be tough on such dangers to our society as casual racism...when those accused of assault, robbery and other such actual crimes, get suspended sentences on a regular basis in our court system.
But racial incidents (more especially involving a political candidate) carry more weight and column inches than actual crime.

So your problem is with the sentence, not the verdict?

Wertz wrote: »

If this was a run of the mill immigrant being told to f*ck off or whwtaever in day to day happenings, this wouldn't have even made it to a garda statement let lone a courthouse...

Run-of-the-mill immigrant? Not entirely sure what your meaning is, but you seem to be saying if this was a Caucasian victim instead of a black one, the outcome would've been different? If that's the case, I don't believe that. If Maphoso was Polish and Walsh had said that foreigners make him sick, I don't believe that any of the subsequent events would have played out any differently

CreepingDeath

The 3 African teenagers who kicked the head off the DJ in Temple Bar have been sent to trial. I bet one of them will get a stiff sentence and at least 1 or 2 of them will get "2 months or lower", making a joke of this guys sentence.

Will see how that turns out...

http://www.herald.ie/news/courts/three-teens-accused-of-temple-bar-brawl-2893426.html

old hippy

CreepingDeath wrote: »

The 3 African teenagers who kicked the head off the DJ in Temple Bar have been sent to trial. I bet one of them will get a stiff sentence and at least 1 or 2 of them will get "2 months or lower", making a joke of this guys sentence.

Will see how that turns out...

http://www.herald.ie/news/courts/three-teens-accused-of-temple-bar-brawl-2893426.html

Ah, the herald. Back in my day, they always made a point of mentioning peoples nationality - it was called "sexing up a story".

Anybody, regardless of colour or creed, who commits violent acts - deserves to be sent down.

Are you trying to make this thread into "whataboutery"?

Phenomenally Phrank

Artur Foden wrote: »

and one can express those opinions, in private, but they have to spare the rest of society their bigotry or go to jail.

That's a massively retarded opinion there:rolleyes:nevertheless I respect your right to hold said opinion;)

smash

28064212 wrote: »

Yeah, he says it. And the guy with the bloody knife claims he didn't stab the victim. Then it went to court, and the defendant was found to be guilty "beyond all reasonable doubt".

A bit different don't you think? One person's word against another vs a dead body and a credible suspect.

Absurdum

efb wrote: »

i really hope some of the posts on this are being sarcastic.

or what, you'll get us jailed?

Son Of A Vidic

CreepingDeath wrote: »

The 3 African teenagers who kicked the head off the DJ in Temple Bar have been sent to trial. I bet one of them will get a stiff sentence and at least 1 or 2 of them will get "2 months or lower", making a joke of this guys sentence.

Will see how that turns out...

Don't hold your breath, I reckon they'll probably walk or at best get a suspended sentence.

I would love to know what evidence convicted the man in question? If it was word against word, then a conviction in such an instance would indeed be laughable.

old hippy

smash wrote: »

Do you read it?

If the court had believed him then no doubt they'd be branded as racist.

Of course I don't read it but when someone insults my wife or any other member of my family, in public, I can't just crumple them up and throw them away, can I?

Idiot.

amacachi

The ould lad deserves to be shown up for it but a custodial sentence is ridiculous. I'm fully aware we don't have a right to free speech in this country, it doesn't affect what my opinion of right and wrong is though.

smash

old hippy wrote: »

Of course I don't read it but when someone insults my wife or any other member of my family, in public, I can't just crumple them up and throw them away, can I?

You could be an adult and laugh at them for being idiotic.

old hippy wrote: »

Idiot.

A bit more than hypocritical of you to launch a personal attack when you're talking about tolerance.

old hippy

smash wrote: »

You could be an adult and laugh at them for being idiotic.

A bit more than hypocritical of you to launch a personal attack when you're talking about tolerance.

You're taking the piss, I thinks. When you and your loved one, friend, family member is abused in the street because of the colour of their skin - you just laugh it off, every time?

Tarkus

The Dublin court heard he made his remarks at the same time that a neighbour, 28-year-old Michael Lawlor allegedly threatened to shoot Maphoso. Lawlor has since died.

up for anything wrote: »

At 28 he is very young to have died. It would be interesting to know if he died by the sword/gun or perhaps an old fashioned bout of apoplexy on his doorstep brought on by visiting politicians.

Walsh was convicted of his murder in a separate trial.

He was sentenced to 20 hours community service...

mconigol

Artur Foden wrote: »

and one can express those opinions, in private, but they have to spare the rest of society their bigotry or go to jail.

Your right, but we didn't see him taking a full page ad out in the local paper to make his comment did we?

So basically what your saying is that you can have your opinions as long as you don't tell them to anyone?

smash

old hippy wrote: »

You're taking the piss, I thinks. When you and your loved one, friend, family member is abused in the street because of the colour of their skin - you just laugh it off, every time?

No I'm not taking the piss, to retaliate in a level understandable to the attacker you must stoop to their level and I wouldn't lower myself to becoming a moron. You however have shown that you would. Or else you're already there. But I'm not going to judge.

alphabeat

i think this summarises it well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHqL7dNujNc

paddyandy

There is no such thing as FREE there is always some price somewhere this looney idea came out in the Looney 60s some time and was part of pop culture's subjugation of the credulous young at the time.

old hippy

smash wrote: »

No I'm not taking the piss, to retaliate in a level understandable to the attacker you must stoop to their level and I wouldn't lower myself to becoming a moron. You however have shown that you would. Or else you're already there. But I'm not going to judge.

How many times has a member of your family or a friend been racially abused in front of you, just out of curiosity? And how many times do you "laugh it off"?

smash

old hippy wrote: »

How many times has a member of your family or a friend been racially abused in front of you, just out of curiosity? And how many times do you "laugh it off"?

Actually a few times, by Moroccans down in Spain. And I have a black friend who's heard it from white people. Usually a "fcuk off" and turn around ignoring them does the trick.

reprazant

smash wrote: »

Actually a few times, by Moroccans down in Spain. And I have a black friend who's heard it from white people. Usually a "fcuk off" and turn around ignoring them does the trick.

Did they also tell you to leave the area or else you'd get a bullet in the head?

candy-gal1

must.........keep..........pc in this thread
lol :pac:

trying not to say anything in these type of threads as my opinion only gets me in trouble lol, but seriously if a person can be jailed for racist remarks, no assault of any kind, does that mean that someone who gets verbally abused in some way randomly in the street for no reason just cos of some way they look then
the abuser can be brought to court and may be sent down for it
? if yes is the answer then thats great imho

smash

reprazant wrote: »

Did they also tell you to leave the area or else you'd get a bullet in the head?

No, but neither did the convicted.

candy-gal1 wrote: »

but seriously if a person can be jailed for racist remarks, no assault of any kind, does that mean that someone who gets verbally abused in some way randomly in the street for no reason just cos of some way they look then the abuser can be brought to court and may be sent down for it
?

I don't know. Try it out

reprazant

smash wrote: »

No, but neither did the convicted.

According to the article, his friend, who was with the convicted at the time, did.

So, you have one person sprouting racist talk while his friend is telling the man in question to leave the area or he will be shot.

Nice.

AeoNGriM

Ooooooooh RACIAL abuse, I see.........almost deleted my porn folder off the hard drive......PHEW!

:cool: