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Is Alcoholism a disease?

TheyKnowMyIP

I am not so sure. Alcoholism does not fit the diagnostic profile of an actual disease. Personally speaking, I am "addicted" to chocolate. This is a result of my choice. I can stop. People with cancer cannot just "stop" metastasis. Self control is a great thing.

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Galway K9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjItc3_wHxM

goose2005

Long Term Louth wrote: »

It has done for those who have found it successful.

So does a placebo.

elizabeth mch

its definately not a disease.

goose2005

Sarkosy wrote: »

You have already tried your terms many times without success, will the next time be any different?

This is my least favourite aspect of AA - the constant criticism, the assumption that drinkers are weak and stupid.

AA wrote:

"The program is perfect; it's just people who are imperfect."
"Don't criticize the program."
"The program never fails; people just fail the program."
"You have a thinking problem, not a drinking problem."
"Your best thinking got you here."
"You need a checkup from the neck up."
"Stop Your Stinkin' Thinkin'."
"Stuff Your Feelings."
"Feelings Aren't Facts."
"Principles Before Personalities."
"A person with one eye on yesterday and one eye on tomorrow is living cockeyed."
"Be Part Of The Solution, Not The Problem."
"N.U.T.S. — Not Using the Steps."
"Have A Good Day Unless You've Made Other Plans."
"Let Go Of Old Ideas."3
"P.L.O.M. = Poor Little Old Me."
"You're only as sick as your secrets."
"We're All Here Because We're Not All There."
"Some people are so successful in recovery, they turn out to be almost as good as they thought they were while drinking."
"Take the cotton out of your ears and stick it in your mouth."
"Sit Down, Shut Up, and Learn Something."
"Alcoholics can't afford to have resentments."
"Opinions are like ass-holes — everybody's got one, and most of them stink."
"He suffers from terminal uniqueness."
"Get humble."
"There is a God and you are not Him."

Good page on AA - http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult_a0.html

realies wrote: »

Most of us have enough of a struggle with alcohol without struggling with whose recovery group is best or worst. I have said it before - If it works for you great, hold onto it, if it doesn't then try another approach. Think of the recovery scene as a restaurant with a large menu - choose what suits and respect other people's choice.
__________________

BS. You wouldn't use that logic if you were getting cancer treatment - you'd look for which treatment was the most reliable and had been proven to work, rather than "respecting" someone's belief to use the wrong kind of chemo.

herosa wrote: »

Correct.Real alkies cannot cut back or cut down. If you can do that you were a heavy boozer not an alcoholic. Its amazing how many people mix the two up.

There is no real medical definition of "alcoholism". The idea that the only cure is complete abstinence is a falsehood spread by AA.

Wattle

realies wrote: »

Most of us have enough of a struggle with alcohol without struggling with whose recovery group is best or worst. I have said it before - If it works for you great, hold onto it, if it doesn't then try another approach. Think of the recovery scene as a restaurant with a large menu - choose what suits and respect other people's choice.
__________________

This is not quite true. If you go into rehab, attend a treatment centre, or are hospitalised due to drinking you are heavily steered towards 12 Step groups. There are no alternatives presented.

Sunnyisland

Wattle wrote: »

This is not quite true. If you go into rehab, attend a treatment centre, or are hospitalised due to drinking you are heavily steered towards 12 Step groups. There are no alternatives presented.

In relation to my post Whats not quite true ?

Wattle

I'm saying that the alcoholic who presents himself in these channels is told only to attend 12 step groups. No alternate is presented or even discussed. It's AA or nothing.

Sunnyisland

Wattle wrote: »

I'm saying that the alcoholic who presents himself in these channels is told only to attend 12 step groups. No alternate is presented or even discussed. It's AA or nothing.

Where is your right about in Ireland & it is changing but There are many recovery groups out there who don't do AA modules.I can only speak for myself but when i was going to treatment AA was mentioned as another tool to fight against this disease/addiction it was never forced on me and i never took the 12 steps.

http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=28817

Wattle

It was the opposite when I was in treatment: AA or nothing. I don't think they would even countenance a discussion about an alternate route. I just think it's strange that they should be sold on 12 step groups when the recovery rates are so poor. But this was a few years ago and maybe like you say the attitude is changing.

RussellTuring

jonnyrudyard wrote: »

....or you're making a severe oversimplification. That's like saying "if people who eat a lot of spinach live on average as long as people who don't, spinach has no health value."

PS I have no opinion on AA's effectiveness one way or the other. Just an observation on your line of reasoning.

The person I was responding to said they would be in favour of AA because some people who use it remain sober. Can you show me how my response was incorrect rather than making an inaccurate analogy? What I said was more akin to saying "if people who eat a lot of spinach live on average as long as people who eat a lot of cabbage, then the spinach probably doesn't make them live any longer than cabbage".

jonnyrudyard

RussellTuring wrote: »

The person I was responding to said they would be in favour of AA because some people who use it remain sober. Can you show me how my response was incorrect rather than making an inaccurate analogy?

First, my analogy was quite correct. You said: "So if people fail at the same rate using AA as they do if not using it.." ie using something vs not using something. I did the same with mine. Same oversimplification. Second, you are the one making the claim that AA provides no added value vs not using it, so the burden of proof is on you. If your oversimplification is it, you haven't shown anything about the alleged lack of AA's effectiveness.

Again, maybe AA is generally ineffective; can't say. But if anything it is far more reasonable to assume that using it is better vs not using it, the same as if eating spinch vs not eating spinach is healthier (all other things being equal of course).