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Correlation between increasing intelligence and atheism

dilbert2

There are a lot of websites on the internet indicating that atheism often increases with education and a rise in intelligence. For instance, countries with better education systems and higher IQ’s are usually secular with little religion. In secular nations such as Sweden there also seems to be a lot less bigotry, sexism etc. than what one would find in a more religious and superstitious society and this is surely a sign of intellectual maturity and intelligence.

Do you agree that there is a correlation between atheism/ secularism, and a better educated, less superstitious populace?

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nozzferrahhtoo

philologos wrote: »

Just what we need! More atheism on After Hours :pac:

Says the guy who makes a point of bringing Christianity into as many areas of the entire boards.ie website as possible, be it After Hours, Humanities, the Atheist forum or the forums on Homosexuality. You are far from a position where you can accuse others of evangelistic behaviors son.

philologos wrote: »

Like all things, correlation is not causation but it comes down to other factors.

Advice I wish you would take yourself sometimes. Such as your claims that the increase in the religious fever of the disciples, which correlated with jesus death, must therefore prove he was a god and came back to life.

Irish Guitarist

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Typing ability is not really a reflection of intelligence though. I misspell a lot of words too. Not because I can not spell them, but due to time constraints I type much faster than I should and my posts are often riddled with errors.

So I am afraid your source of mirth is likely not as relevant as you might want it to be.

That's just one example of how atheists can be ignorant. Another example is how little they know about history. Every other post about the Pope is about how he was a member of the Nazi Youth. While this is true, so was every other fourteen year old German 'Aryan' boy as it was required by law. The people that call religious people 'sheep' are the same people that will bring this up again and again without reading about it.

Again, I'm not talking about all atheists; just the one that can't shut up for five minutes about how much more intelligent they are than religious people.

nozzferrahhtoo

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

That's just one example of how atheists can be ignorant.

Again no. Again typing ability is not a reflection of ignorance. It is a reflection on ones typing ability. No more. No less. Also if you really think that is limited to atheists and theists are some how superior typist then you really are engaged in fantasy.

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Another example is how little they know about history. Every other post about the Pope is about how he was a member of the Nazi Youth. While this is true, so was every other fourteen year old German 'Aryan' boy as it was required by law.

Now I am truly confused. They know nothing about history... and you deduce this because the things they say about history are actually 100% accurate? Odd.

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Again, I'm not talking about all atheists; just the one that can't shut up for five minutes about how much more intelligent they are than religious people.

You mean the ones you are imagining in your head then? As I am aware of few, if any, that go around making such claims. In fact the position of most, if not all, atheists I have seen on these forums would be closer to what I wrote in post #91 above in response to dilbert2.

I am sure if you search hard enough, accounting of course for which users are clearly trolls, I am sure you will find 1, 2 or maybe even 5 if you are lucky, people who fit the straw man you are trying to build. I hardly feel that is representative however. It seems more likely you are trying to engage in random ad hominem and will latch on to anything... even a spelling mistake... if it will confirm your bias.

BBDBB

I was brought up to believe in IQ tests, I was less than two weeks old when I was first tested, I went to a school where IQ was tested every day before lessons and we had an assembly where we sang a hymn about how great IQ tests were and said prayers to thank the Great Creator of IQ tests.

As I grew up, I was encouraged to take part in the testing of IQs and it was all going great until one of the Testers touched me in my special place after IQ Practice one evening.

I became disillusioned with it in my teens and hardly ever went to have my IQ tested in my early twenties, I suppose that makes me a lapsed IQist. Though my parents still have their IQ tested regularly and most family events are centred around an IQ test of some sort. Im not rulling out having my IQ tested again at some point in the future and I wouldnt knock anyone for having their IQ tested, its a very personal thing.

ed2hands

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

In fact the position of most, if not all, atheists I have seen on these forums would be closer to what I wrote in post #91 above in response to dilbert2.

I'll take your word on that.
Let's flesh this out for a second.

So you don't see anything wrong with that response to dilbert2 nozzferrahtoo? What would you say the tone of that response was for instance?

nozzferrahhtoo

ed2hands wrote: »

I'll take your word on that.
Let's flesh this out for a second.

So you don't see anything wrong with that response to dilbert2 nozzferrahtoo? What would you say the tone of that response was for instance?

If I saw anything wrong with it, why would I have written it?

Also it would be a mistake to over ascribe tone to it. The content is more important and is independent of tone.

[Deleted User]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjfSuOq6ReA

Anyway, it's more

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAcnDevkTnc

mcmoustache

Freddie59 wrote: »

So because you're religious you're uneducated and ignorant. Nice.:rolleyes:

Where do you see that? I think that there is something wrong with your comprehension skills. Are you religious by any chance?

4leto

I always find these correlations about IQ stupid and mildly insulting.

Asians are smarter the Caucasians, Caucasions are smarter then blacks, vegetarians are smarter then people who eat meat, The dubs are smarter then the cultchies (probably true:D).

They are always based on sweeping generalisations, they always assume IQ has a sole genetic correlation when the genes are only part of the reason people may do well in these tests.

As for education leading people away from religion and toward a more secular fairer society. I can give the example of prewar Germany who were at that time the best educated people and the most scientifical advanced place in the world.

Look what happened there you got a quasi NAZI religious demigod and appalling racism.

So no religious people are not dumber then atheists and vegetarian Caucasians are not dumber then meat eating Asians.

It seems to me that IQ test are becoming the new expression of racism.

mcmoustache

Laisurg wrote: »

Not sure about other countries but certainly not the case in Ireland, I know loads of people who think they're some kind of intellectual purely because they're an atheist.

I haven't really noticed this. You're not mixing up a phrase like:
"He thinks I'm stupid"
with a phrase like:
"He think my beliefs are stupid".
???

It doesn't matter, really. As long as atheists are described by Christians as "lost", they are in no position to use the point that you just made without smelling like the turd of hypocrisy.

Theists display a huge amount of arrogance. They sing songs about how great their deity is. They can't help going on about their deity and how others are missing out. They assume that they have a special relationship with their deity that others don't.

They think that their deity, their religion and their selves are something special which sets them apart and above non-believers.

So please, stop with this "Atheists are arrogant", "Atheists are pushing their beliefs down my throat" and "Atheism is like a religion" nonsense. It's plainly false and it stinks like a big dead-dog-turd of hypocrisy.

flash1080

I see the militant atheists are out in force.

k.p.h

4leto wrote: »

So no religious people are not dumber then atheists and vegetarian Caucasians are not dumber then meat eating Asians.

I don't know... Maybe not in an academic sense but their has to be a reason "why" some people are religious. It just dose not make sense TBH. Their are about 20 major religions in the world who all believe different thing, all proclaim to be right and none with any compelling evidence to prove the things they believe and live their lives by.

It just dose not make sense ..

Whats wrong with these people, I don't think the answer lies in IQ testing maybe psychiatric testing would find the answer. How can people believe such things and rely on "faith" in their decision making process. I think the blame should be put squarely on society, the fact that people could have such a vacuum in their lives and a "want" that they could go down this path says a lot more about the world we live in than we would care to admit ..

k.p.h

flash1080 wrote: »

I see the militant atheists are out in force.

Trying to talk some sense into them ..

Its hard to talk sense into someone who gos to mass every Sunday and believes they are eating the body of someone who apparently died 2k years ago .. They have to have low IQ's ..

4leto

k.p.h wrote: »

I don't know... Maybe not in an academic sense but their has to be a reason "why" some people are religious. It just dose not make sense TBH. Their are about 20 major religions in the world who all believe different thing, all proclaim to be right and none with any compelling evidence to prove the things they believe and live their lives by.

It just dose not make sense ..

Whats wrong with these people, I don't think the answer lies in IQ testing maybe psychiatric testing would find the answer. How can people believe such things and rely on "faith" in their decision making process. I think the blame should be put squarely on society, the fact that people could have such a vacuum in their lives and a "want" that they could go down this path says a lot more about the world we live in than we would care to admit ..

Its simple really education and science gives us power, religion and faith give meaning.

My father is very religious, highly intelligent, he tends to read a lot of spiritual religious books.

I am an unbeliever, I tend to read a lot of scientific books.

Like the conspiracy nuts, they tend to focus there minds on conspiracy theories, that doesn't make them stupid, just specialists.

k.p.h

4leto wrote: »

Its simple really education and science gives us power, religion and faith give meaning.

My father is very religious, highly intelligent, he tends to read a lot of spiritual religious books.

I am an unbeliever, I tend to read a lot of scientific books.

Like the conspiracy nuts, they tend to focus there minds on conspiracy theories, that doesn't make them stupid, just specialists.

The fact that religion and faith is relied upon to give meaning imply's a "want" or "need" to me. While it is associated with intelligence in the traditional sense I don't think thats the main contributing factor. Hence why I dismiss the IQ idea also.

More an emotional need. If emotional intelligence (and I use that term loosely) could be measured I'm pretty sure they would be a stark difference between religious people and atheists.

mcmoustache

flash1080 wrote: »

I see the militant atheists are out in force.

Must try harder. F

Coeurdepirate

Look at the southern states of America...

af_thefragile

The question on the existence of God is a philosophical debate rather than a scientific debate. Science can neither prove or disprove the existence of God. It only deals with matter and energy and all that's contained in the physical universe. God by definition is above and beyond the physical realm of the universe and hence is beyond the reach and capabilities of science.

Throughout history there have been many philosophers who have put forward many arguments for why they believe God exists and there have also been philosophers who believe God doesn't exist but they have mostly been the more recent "post enlightenment" philosophers. As I've been saying all along, some see the light in the philosophers who believe in God while others chose to follow the thought of the philosophers who don't believe in God. No one can say the atheist philosophers are more intelligent than the theist philosophers because you can not objectively compare the intellect of both such philosophers and therefore can't say one is more intelligent than the other.

Most people who disbelieve in God follow the modern scientific thought to see how there is no place for God or any "higher power" in science due to the extremely objective nature of the scientific process. But they leave out the philosophical discourse on the subject of the reality of God. Hence they may be very well versed in scientific facts but that doesn't make them any more intelligent than a person well versed in the philosophical discourses showing the reality and nature of God.

Bottom line, when it comes to figuring out the interaction of matter and energy in the physical universe, I'ld listen to a scientist.
When it comes to figuring out a reasoning for believe in disbelief in a certain force above and beyond the physical realm of this universe, I'ld listen to a philosopher or theologian.
Because a what a scientist knows and sees the philosopher/theologian doesn't while what a philosopher/theologian knows and sees, the scientist doesn't.

And in my case, I have found the arguments of the philosophers/theologian who believe in God to be more sound than the arguments of the philosophers who don't believe in God.

That ends my argument of why I believe in God and I don't believe it makes me any less intelligent or less learned than an atheist for what I have chosen to believe.

Freddie59

Sisko wrote: »

Welcome to the year 2011.

That's a bit rich. Seeing as you perceive anyone with religious beliefs as 'undeducated and ignorant'. 2011 indeed.:rolleyes:

Freddie59

MagicMarker wrote: »

TBH, I'm starting to thinking so after reading this thread. You're really doing yourself no favours by completely misinterpreting what's being said.

How so? Because I disagree with it?

MagicMarker

af_thefragile wrote: »

And in my case, I have found the arguments of the philosophers/theologian who believe in God to be more sound than the arguments of the philosophers who don't believe in God.

Arguments such as?

Dudess

Freddie59, they were asking whether atheists are more intelligent, they didn't say religious people are definitely uneducated and ignorant... that's your misinterpretation they're talking about.

Freddie59

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I more inclined to believe that religious people as a group, are generally more ignorant,

WTF?!

MagicMarker

Freddie59 wrote: »

How so? Because I disagree with it?

Yes, you misinterpreted it because you disagreed with it.

Jesus fucking christ, I'm not surprised you're confused.

Freddie59

mcmoustache wrote: »

Where do you see that? I think that there is something wrong with your comprehension skills. Are you religious by any chance?

I think my sig clears that one up..........comprende?:D

Doesn't take a lot to comprehend the initial statement, in fairness.;):rolleyes:

Freddie59

MagicMarker wrote: »

Yes, you misinterpreted it because you disagreed with it.

Jesus fucking christ, I'm not surprised you're confused.

Now, now.......:p and where, young Jedi, would this confusion lie.....according to YOU?

af_thefragile

MagicMarker wrote: »

Arguments such as?

There have been countless philosophers and theologians who've written about God over the past centuries, go find them yourself.

Freddie59

Dudess wrote: »

Freddie59, they were asking whether atheists are more intelligent, they didn't say religious people are definitely uneducated and ignorant... that's your misinterpretation they're talking about.

Hello again D. from post number 5:

Considering religion tends to take advantage of the uneducated and the ignorant

Discuss......

Dudess

MagicMarker wrote: »

Arguments such as?

Yeah, I don't get this "I'm SO PC and respectful of others' belief systems" stuff (but not that of atheists) - some atheists are arse-holes about their atheism, plenty of religious people aren't arse-holes about their religion. No biggie.

MagicMarker wrote: »

Yes, you misinterpreted it because you disagreed with it.

Logic fail to the extreme...

MagicMarker

af_thefragile wrote: »

There have been countless philosophers and theologians who've written about God over the past centuries, go find them yourself.

I'm just curious as to what arguments you've heard that have convinced you there is a god. Surely you'd be more than willing to share such convincing arguments?