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Stallions

UrbanSea

Can anyone seriously compete with Coolmore? Who are yer favourite stallions?

Galileo has owned the big races world wide this year. Europe,S.Africa and a dual grade 1 success last week in the States,who can even get near half of Coolmore's stallions.

I'd rate them
1.Galileo
2.Montjeu
3.Danehill Dancer

Holy Roman Emperor has really impressed me and you can bet his stud fee will be more than 10 grand next year. Even Strategic Prince is a first year sire who banged out a group 1 winner at a fee of 5,000.

Teofilo has really caught my eye aswell this year.

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Nulty

tryfix wrote: »

A fabulous race to watch, probably the finish of the season. You are right about the Danzig line in the top sprints, I used to follow the 3yo Danzigs on firm ground many years ago and it turned up a few nice price winners.

Problem is these days there's so many of them! I really enjoyed putting those results together though. Gives me a much better picture of his breeding line and his astonishing record in the Sprint Cup.

How about a chat about Hoof Its pedigree? He's a Danzig line - Danehill cross. It's all Northern Dancer there.

Who's this Bond fella. Did he own Monsieur Bond and the dam? He's full brother to Ladies Are Forever

UrbanSea

Ya same fella Nulty. I think he's a businessman.

Wouldn't bother too much with Hoof It,it'd mean more to Juddmonte or Dream Ahead's owner if they won. No disrespect but they'll be at stud in a few years

tryfix

I was really impressed by Hoof It and noticed he was ahead a few strides after the line, his head was rising as theirs were dipping otherwise he might even have won. All three of them would make nice sires, Hoof it a son of Monsieur Bond out of a Danetime mare going back to Ahanoora. Looks like a ready made sire for producing plenty of good handicappers and 2yo group horses.

Nulty

tryfix wrote: »

I was really impressed by Hoof It and noticed he was ahead a few strides after the line, his head was rising as theirs were dipping otherwise he might even have won. All three of them would make nice sires, Hoof it a son of Monsieur Bond out of a Danetime mare going back to Ahanoora. Looks like a ready made sire for producing plenty of good handicappers and 2yo group horses.

He's a gelding, I was just interested in where he came from. Ladies Are Forwver might be of more interest in breeding terms as a full sister

tryfix

Nulty wrote: »

He's a gelding, I was just interested in where he came from. Ladies Are Forwver might be of more interest in breeding terms as a full sister

Forgive my ignorance, I just looked at the pedigree it's a pity he's not an entire. He's a better horse than his sire but that's probably due to losing his tackle.

His sister is just a nicely related breeding prospect for producing speedy types, it's Hoof It that had the potential to get lots of the same types if he had been an entire.

tryfix

Nice to see Sadlers Wells last crop producing a Gp 2 winner in the John Oxx trained 3 yo Saddlers Rock in the Doncaster Cup. Is that at least one Gp winner in every crop he has sired ?

UrbanSea

Not sure to be honest tryfix.

I was only thinking today it would be nice if he could win a Gr.1,probably the last one for Saddlers' Wells. Fantasia may do it yet in America

tryfix

Can't find one of this years 4 yo crop that's won a Gp race, there's still time though. That horse was the nearest thing to a hero I've had in sport .

UrbanSea

This article is worth a read. About The Green Monkey,but it's more so about Darley and Coolmore.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2006/may/07/horseracing.features

tryfix

The Green Monkey is standing for $5,000 at the stud of his former consignors, who bought back a half share in him. All is not lost at least he isn't running around gaff tracks after being gelded.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/47047/the-green-monkey-to-stand-for-5000

Fairy King, Sadlers Wells full brother was a top sire despite never racing.

Would this fellow make a NH stallion, a 3/4 brother to Pour Moi by Sadlers Wells,a full brother to Gagnoa a top filly placed 3 times in Gp 1 races. Sold for €300,000 as a yearling and resold for €12,000 as a 3yo. He won his on his debut beating Cirrus Des Aigles into 4th. It's a good job they didn't Geld him.

Rendezvous (IRE)
5-y-o (26Mar06 b h)
Sadler´s Wells (USA) (11.4f) — Gwynn (IRE) (Darshaan (11.7f))

UrbanSea

Will you link me to his form,I can't find where he made a winning debut.

Apparently there are big questions over The Green Monkey's breeding to be a stallion.

tryfix

Here it is Urban.

http://www.racingpost.com/horses/horse_home_popup.sd?horse_id=695653#topHorseTabs=horse_race_record&bottomHorseTabs=horse_form

UrbanSea

Thanks Irish racing just had Leicester on

UrbanSea

2 classics for Montjeu today

tryfix

I didn't see Wading today, was she promising, she could be a nice price for the Oaks it must surely be her target for next year.

UrbanSea

She was,she got first run on the winner but the experience counted but she looks a sure winner soon. They were a few lengths clear of a nice filly in third,and well clear of the rest

tryfix

UrbanSea wrote: »

Not sure to be honest tryfix.

I was only thinking today it would be nice if he could win a Gr.1,probably the last one for Saddlers' Wells. Fantasia may do it yet in America

Found that group winner in Sadlers Wells now 4yo crop, last years Gp3 Lingfield Derby Trial winner Bullet Train, Frankels 3/4 or is it 7/8ths brother. So that's a Gp winner in every single crop.

UrbanSea

What do ye make of Excelebration being bought by Coolmore?

Canford Cliffs and Excelebration. They don't scream out ''STALLION!!''

tryfix

UrbanSea wrote: »

What do ye make of Excelebration being bought by Coolmore?

Canford Cliffs and Excelebration. They don't scream out ''STALLION!!''

They used to do well years ago with these types, Don't Forget Me and Tirol Hannons 2000 guineas winners were two I remember. A good source of handicappers and minor pattern horses, not sure the market is there for them with so many well bred horses available nowadays. Canford Cliffs was an exceptional horse his Coventry win was top drawer stuff, but he doesn't have what it takes to mix it with the big boy sires. Can't say I find Excelebration too exciting either, he has the exceed and excel thing going on but it doesn't excite me and I'd rather if he had been a top 2yo as well as showing good form this year.

They have a few interesting prospects coming along in Ballydoyle, Power(Oasis Dream), Zoffany(Dansili), Crusade(MrGreeley), Daddy Long legs(Scat Daddy) and a few other nice ones from outside of the Coolmore Stud.

Nice to see Pimpernel franking Wadings form today.

JimDeChamp

Theirs nothing between montjeu and Galileo, if anything montjeu heads Galileo sightly.. As for sires that have their first crop of foals on the ground now, fastnet rock and mastercraftsman take the honours...

UrbanSea

tryfix wrote: »

They used to do well years ago with these types, Don't Forget Me and Tirol Hannons 2000 guineas winners were two I remember. A good source of handicappers and minor pattern horses, not sure the market is there for them with so many well bred horses available nowadays. Canford Cliffs was an exceptional horse his Coventry win was top drawer stuff, but he doesn't have what it takes to mix it with the big boy sires. Can't say I find Excelebration too exciting either, he has the exceed and excel thing going on but it doesn't excite me and I'd rather if he had been a top 2yo as well as showing good form this year.

They have a few interesting prospects coming along in Ballydoyle, Power(Oasis Dream), Zoffany(Dansili), Crusade(MrGreeley), Daddy Long legs(Scat Daddy) and a few other nice ones from outside of the Coolmore Stud.

Nice to see Pimpernel franking Wadings form today.

I can see Excelebration smashing Canford Cliffs at stud.CC will get the better mares when he first goes but over time we'll see Excelebration as better. Why they would buy a colt by Tagula is beyond me (1 group 1 winner)
Scat Daddy is a Coolmore stallion

JimDeChamp wrote: »

Theirs nothing between montjeu and Galileo, if anything montjeu heads Galileo sightly.. As for sires that have their first crop of foals on the ground now, fastnet rock and mastercraftsman take the honours...

Galileo wins hands down I think.
He can get milers up to a mile and three quarters,colts and fillies.

tryfix

UrbanSea wrote: »

I can see Excelebration smashing Canford Cliffs at stud.CC will get the better mares when he first goes but over time we'll see Excelebration as better. Why they would buy a colt by Tagula is beyond me (1 group 1 winner)

There is a market for this type of horse he will produce plenty of decent precocious 2yo and handicap winners, the bread and butter end of English racing. It's a commercial decision, not everybody is trying to breed classic hopes and coolmore will have no problem making a nice profit on him. Excelebration is better bred and has potential but I don't think he'll be anything special.

Scat Daddy is a Coolmore stallion.

I knew that, but he's Coolmore USA from the Storm Cat line, something from outside the conveyor belt of the Sadlers Wells , Danehill lines that Coolmore is full of. I would love to see them make a proper stallion out of Await the Dawn or some other Giants Causeway Colt to compete with Shamardal.

UrbanSea

He won't necessarily get precocious two year olds though.

If he gets decent mares and fails with them then they might'nt be precocious two year olds as many of the dams might have been classic generation and above.

Look at Tagula's progeny. 26 listed winners for a stallion is not great striking.

I'd imagine Excelebrations could be more precocious with Exceed and Excel in the bloodline

tryfix

UrbanSea wrote: »

He won't necessarily get precocious two year olds though.

If he gets decent mares and fails with them then they might'nt be precocious two year olds as many of the dams might have been classic generation and above.

Look at Tagula's progeny. 26 listed winners for a stallion is not great striking.

He'll be alright on the winners front but there will be few quality mares sent to him. Breeders know what they're going to get with him , he'll be a prolific source of moderate winners with some Hannon type pattern horses and always the promise of a one off special one like himself.

I'd imagine Excelebrations could be more precocious with Exceed and Excel in the bloodline

I don't know what to make of this fellow at all, he seems to have the pedigree of a precocious 2yo who would make a sprinter/7f horse but he's definitely a miler. I don't think he'll get as many precocious types as Canford Cliffs but they'll be better quality animals.

UrbanSea

That's true.

I'll be looking forward to New Approach,Raven's Pass and Henrythenavigator's two year olds.
Wonder will many of Henry's be in the UK

JimDeChamp

Montjeu covers less than half the number of mares that Galileo covers, so how you can say gallieo is better is beyond me, I remember when Galileo was covering national hunt mares...! Galileo has only become a big shot in the last couple of years...!

tryfix

JimDeChamp wrote: »

Montjeu covers less than half the number of mares that Galileo covers, so how you can say gallieo is better is beyond me, I remember when Galileo was covering national hunt mares...! Galileo has only become a big shot in the last couple of years...!

Montjeu is the best sire of Derby winners we are likely to see. 3 Epsoms, 3 Irish and counting. His talent as a sire lies at 1m 4f.

WINSRUNS%2ND3RD£ PRIZEWorldwide G1 43 357 12 40 23 12,006,856

Galileo is also a great sire of Derby winners 1 Epsom and 3 Irish. He can sire them to win at all distances, Brilliant as Montjeu is he can't be rated superior to a sire that could do this.

9 individual 3y old GP1 winners for Galileo this year .

Together, Misty for me, Igugu, Nathaniel, Treasure Beach, Galikova, Roderick O Connor, Golden Lilac and Frankel.

WINSRUNS%2ND3RD£ PRIZEWorldwide G1 51 342 15 47 27 12,945,202

UrbanSea

JimDeChamp wrote: »

Montjeu covers less than half the number of mares that Galileo covers, so how you can say gallieo is better is beyond me, I remember when Galileo was covering national hunt mares...! Galileo has only become a big shot in the last couple of years...!

Where did you get that stat from or did you make it up?

Montjeu stands at 75k,Galileo is private,but I think he's in and around 250k. I don't know if he covers as many.

UrbanSea

JimDeChamp wrote: »

Montjeu covers less than half the number of mares that Galileo covers, so how you can say gallieo is better is beyond me, I remember when Galileo was covering national hunt mares...! Galileo has only become a big shot in the last couple of years...!

http://bloodstock.racingpost.com/stallionbook/stallion.sd?horse_id=531769&popup=1&tab=sales
http://bloodstock.racingpost.com/stallionbook/stallion.sd?horse_id=503034&popup=1&tab=sales

Sales statistics. In the space of a year Galileo has had 187 and Montjeu 153...Hardly half.

JimDeChamp

Montjeu covers 2 mares a day no more...! Gallieo covers 4...! Don't for get montjeu was 150k last year and is certin to go back In price next season... Galileo is 300k...!