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infrastructure in Waterford

tankbarry

With the staff in talk talk after losing there Jobs and im sure more places under pressure what does everybody here think we need here to help get the jobs flowing again. here is what I think will help

1. University ... Is proven to create jobs in the immediate area

2. Airport Runway extension bigger aircraft means more tourism means more
jobs. Also means Waterford will be seen by companys that are interestedin
waterford that we have an airport that can supply them with what they
want instead of having to travel to other airports which they dont want to
do. FACT

3. Dont know how we can do this but can the rich, TD's, and anybody who
knows things about jobs set up a Job's council that they can sit down and
get the jobs here. No more talking just ACTION.

I would like anybody to feel free to add to this. Lets keep it constructive.

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ComeraghBlue

tankbarry wrote: »

With the staff in talk talk after losing there Jobs and im sure more places under pressure what does everybody here think we need here to help get the jobs flowing again. here is what I think will help

1. University ... Is proven to create jobs in the immediate area

2. Airport Runway extension bigger aircraft means more tourism means more
jobs. Also means Waterford will be seen by companys that are interestedin
waterford that we have an airport that can supply them with what they
want instead of having to travel to other airports which they dont want to
do. FACT

3. Dont know how we can do this but can the rich, TD's, and anybody who
knows things about jobs set up a Job's council that they can sit down and
get the jobs here. No more talking just ACTION.

I would like anybody to feel free to add to this. Lets keep it constructive.

Great ideas there Tank. there all possible if the td's just got off there arse and done something

Master and commander

1. University ... Is proven to create jobs in the immediate area

At the end of the day giving uni status to WIT amounts to nothing more than renaming the current institute. Same buildings, same courses, same lecturers, same everything - just a different sign over the door. Whats more, the whole rebranding excercise will cost €€€€'s, which is not there.
Giving uni status will also devalue the prestige associated with the other universities - i can't imagine the graduates of the NUI being to happy with it. In any case, unless it becomes part of NUI, i.e the current trend is for a technical university, then its just pointless windowdressing, equivalent to when they renamed the RTC's as IT's. It didn't make a sh!t of a difference then and it wont do so now either. I should also add that unless its part of NUI its graduates will not be eligible to be electors for seanad elections so in effect it will not be a real university.
And to be doing it now is just pure reactionary stuff - they're not doing it because of WITs merits and quality, but just because Talktalk closed. They'd be doing it just for the sake of it to get votes for the lads next time round, which is silly.

And by the way, I am a WIT student, not a Trinity toff.:D

2. Airport Runway extension bigger aircraft means more tourism means more
jobs. Also means Waterford will be seen by companys that are interestedin waterford that we have an airport that can supply them with what they
want instead of having to travel to other airports which they dont want to
do. FACT

Waterford simply doesn't need a bigger airport. The demand just isn't there. Face it waterford is barely a city in fainess, its really just a good sized town. And with the M9 making dublin so much closer and cork being only 90 mins away thats another reason its not needed. Shure even the facility thats there is operateing way way below capacity - what the point of expanding if thats the case, it'd be pure pointless squander. The runway is plenty big, it can take 737 sized craft but guess what, it never does - no demand for it down here, never mind with bigger planes. Who would pay for it anyway - the government certainly wont and cant, leaving the option to sell to a private operator - most of whom wouldn't touch it with a barge pole since demand would be so low waterford, i mean waterford is a small place and anyone wanting a flight will just go to cork or dub. RyanAir pulled out of waterford years ago, and if they can't run a viable operation then no-one can.

3.

Dont know how we can do this but can the rich, TD's, and anybody who knows things about jobs set up a Job's council that they can sit down and
get the jobs here. No more talking just ACTION.

the rich? since when do the "rich" automatically owe everyone a piece. Thats money they earned through work or wise investment and fair play to them. It's this attitude that are owed a job and lifestyle by the state/rich that has the country fecked. Can't be expecting to have everything handed to us on a plate, we must make our own way and find work/set up business/emigrate as the situation dictates, some will succeed and some will fail, just the way it is, man!

anyway, i'mnot intending to be negative BTW, i'm just saying like

Finnbar01

If we want to create jobs we need the right environment to allow for this to happen.

There are simply to many rules, regulations, red tape etc when it comes to starting up, running or expanding a business in this country. Throw in all the EU directives and the situation is worsened.

Cut back on red tape and ignore the EU directives would be a step in the right direction.

Edit: May I also add that we need to aim towards a more united South East. Currently we are too 'fractured' as it is. The South East is perhaps one of the richest areas in Ireland when it comes to History, culture, festivals, music, sports, wining and dining etc with great natural resources like our coast, parks, mountains, rivers etc. All of these should be promoted and exploited to the max.

Master and commander

^^^ here here.

Cut the stifling regulations and cut taxes.

Because of the horrendously bloated welfare state we are in, there is a clear dis-incentive invest,be successful or work. There is a huge disincentive to work and be successful. i.e. the more you earn and the more successful you become, the more you are punished and penalised through taxes. Then those taxes go to reward the incompetent, uninterested and plain lazy who are rewarded more and more as they get more incompetent, uninterested and lazy.
With such a doctrin in place it is a miracle that the country didn't collapse 10 years before it did. Absolutely bonkers, how can any government who implements such idiotic ideas expect an economy to grow and prosper? I think its down to the fact that down through the years bumping up welfare systems has been a sure fire vote getter for the gombeen men. Simples, there should be business professionals who know what works put in charge of running the countries affairs, not washed-up 70's communists like Eamon gilmore and joan burton.

Tea party anyone?

EDIT: indeed you are right on the money. The current system of local gov is disastrously inefficient and wasteful, over staffed by people who could'nt give a sh!t cos they can't be sacked and who wouldn't last a week in the private sector. One regional authority for the south east would be perfectly adequate, givent he fact that our population density is so low in ireland. ATM we seem to have a separate local authority for every other cross roads and GAA field in the country. Having a more frugal and rationalised local government system will work out will better efficiencies, less conflicts between areas and lower costs. Since so much more business like Motor tax and planning is now done online, an awful lot of redundant and surplus office and positions can be swept away for lower costs. Anyway, Motor tax has no place in Local gov and should be hived off to DOT in shannon or preferably outsourced. A great deal of the local gov work should be privatised or put out to tender and get the cheapest to do it - no more of this 3 or 4 fellas standing and 1 fella working carry on. But of course all this is a pipe dream that will never materialise sine those in government are spineless and won't take on the unions lest it lose them a few votes. I know they are mergin north and south tipp, but that a complete waste of time since no-one will be sacked and thus there will be no savings. In fact it will push costs up as no doubt the "workers" will be seeking compensation packages for the disruption caused by the move. This little state is a lost cause.

Master and commander

etc with great natural resources like our coast, parks,

As regards waterford at least, I would count tramore out of the above statement. Oh God, the thoughts of the place. The most depressing knacker infested eysore in the county! How anyone could possibly want to go there for their holiday is beyond me, i simply can't understand it at all.
Perhaps waterfords tourism appeal would be enhanced if that god awful edifice that is Tramore was obliterated and razed to the ground. The remains could function like craggy island did in Fr. Ted - a land mark, with the general idea being that if you are heading away from it you are going in the right direction.

tankbarry

The runway is plenty big, it can take 737 sized craft

no it isnt. you might want to check some of your facts. there is demand in waterford for flights it just needs the bigger runway so bigger aircraft can come in.

jonnyfingers

I just want to chime in on the point a few posts up that making Waterford a University would devalue the status of other universities. I've just come back from Boston. It's a small enough city with a population of 600,000 but has 51 universities and colleges, including three very prestigious ones, Harvard, MIT and UMASS.

I think the whole country of Ireland would have no problem adding one more to the list.

Master and commander

I think the whole country of Ireland would have no problem adding one more to the list.

Are you saying it is out of begrudgery that the NUI object to WIT being a University.
Look i go to WIT and it's not what i would call university grade. Lots of lackluster lecturers,poor facilities, cold leaky buildings and a large propotion of the students are nothing more than riff-raff whose only reason for going to college is to get hammered every night. Education is anathema to alot of them. Even in my own class (final year in Level 8 some of them are such laid back, couldn't give a crap types it just goes beyond a joke.

AIRPORT. Waterford doesn't need a bigger airport. as said cork is 90 mins and is more than waterford could ever hope to be in a million yrs. Dublin is 150ish mins away, both with infinitely more destinations and carriers. It would be an inordinate waste of money to be squandering if they were to expand it any further. Shure its way way below capacity as it is. Any time i passed by it the place was fecking deserted like a ghost town.
In anycase its a rip off to fly from there to anywhere, i live near it and have never bothered with it as the destinations are rubbish and are a rip off. I always go to cork. as said if ryan air can't make it work, no-one can. If they wanted, they could buy up aer arann and operate their regional routes but its a waste of time.

jonnyfingers

Master and commander wrote: »

Are you saying it is out of begrudgery that the NUI object to WIT being a University.

Yes.

Master and commander wrote: »

Look i go to WIT and it's not what i would call university grade. Lots of lackluster lecturers,poor facilities, cold leaky buildings and a large propotion of the students are nothing more than riff-raff whose only reason for going to college is to get hammered every night. Education is anathema to alot of them. Even in my own class (final year in Level 8 some of them are such laid back, couldn't give a crap types it just goes beyond a joke.

I went to UL. I had one lecturer who was a racist and a feminist. I had another lecturer that was a genius but couldn't teach. I had another that didn't show up for 9 of our 13 week semester. Every university has problems. And every university has students who get hammered every night. We had three bars on campus, I missed many 9:00 lecturers thanks to that!!

As part of becoming a University, Waterford should be improved if possible in any areas it is behind, such as facilities (which are pretty good already) and staff ability.

The benefit of becoming a University is it will hopefully attract more students, require more expansion, provide more jobs and boost the local economy. Personally I don't think my Electronic Engineering degree is worth any more from UL than friends of mine who have the same degree from WIT.

So if calling WIT a university helps us in any way, from an economic point of view, then do it.

the_glass

Master and commander wrote: »

Waterford simply doesn't need a bigger airport. The demand just isn't there. Face it waterford is barely a city in fainess, its really just a good sized town. And with the M9 making dublin so much closer and cork being only 90 mins away thats another reason its not needed. Shure even the facility thats there is operateing way way below capacity - what the point of expanding if thats the case, it'd be pure pointless squander. The runway is plenty big, it can take 737 sized craft but guess what, it never does - no demand for it down here, never mind with bigger planes. Who would pay for it anyway - the government certainly wont and cant, leaving the option to sell to a private operator - most of whom wouldn't touch it with a barge pole since demand would be so low waterford, i mean waterford is a small place and anyone wanting a flight will just go to cork or dub. RyanAir pulled out of waterford years ago, and if they can't run a viable operation then no-one can.

Looks like your talking a load of bullsh1t here.

Waterford Airports runway length in meters 1,433 meters
At sea level most airlines require the following length for a 737 - 1,852 meters
Although a 737 could possibly land it Waterford, it would be unable to take off, due to the weight of the aircraft, with fuel, bags and passengers.
Waterford airports passengers for 2010 was 104,000

Surely with an extended runway, tour operators would surely look at summer schedules which would hugely boost passengers figures . 104,000 seems pretty good as it is an airport with no PSO flights.

As for Ryanair, Waterford was the first airport that the Ryan family flew out off and due to changes in the company and moving to Jet Aircraft they could not fly from Waterford anymore due to runway length.

jonnyfingers

Surely extending a runway couldn't cost that much. Anyone an idea of the estimated cost? Is there still issues with visibly at the airport that would also hamper larger aircraft landing?

the_glass

It wouldn't just be runway cost, the taxiways would also have to be widened, as well as the apron extrended another bit, extra runway lighting etc... not sure of the cost invovled.

Surely wouldn't be what it was going to cost in 2007, I think €23million back then but that was also to include a bigger terminal building.

I'm sure a bigger runway would also open the private aviation market, and freight aircraft.

Smiley Burnett

The first thing we can do is educate our youngsters to a decent standard!!!

Go on facebook/twitter and see just how many people are leaving school and THEY CAN'T EVEN SPELL!!!

The second thing we should do is tell our youngsters that if they leave school with no leaving cert (or just a leaving cert!), that THERE ARE NO DECENT FACTORY JOBS ANYMORE!!

The days of getting a good job in "the glass" or "the creamery" are long gone. If you dont further your education, then you have no chance!! You will end up depending on someone to hopefully give you a job, which (if you're lucky), will pay you the minimum wage!!

did any of you see the lad on the news during week, who said he left school when he was 15 and now he is complaining that he cant get a job???!!! Who do you think he was blaming???? That idiot needs to look in the mirror for the answer to that one!!!

charlemont

the_glass wrote: »

It wouldn't just be runway cost, the taxiways would also have to be widened, as well as the apron extrended another bit, extra runway lighting etc... not sure of the cost invovled.

Surely wouldn't be what it was going to cost in 2007, I think €23million back then but that was also to include a bigger terminal building.

I'm sure a bigger runway would also open the private aviation market, and freight aircraft.

Waterford doesn't have the population for it, And its not going to grow anytime soon either.

michellie

Master and commander wrote: »

Dublin is 150ish mins away

When was the last time you drove to Dublin airport ??

If waterford airport was bigger I would use it all the time. I use it already for Manchester & galway already.

mike65

Sheeze, some people posting nonsense as fact again I see, the whole point of the mooted runway extension was so that B737/baby Airbus could fly in and out here. That the government killed it for the sake of about 25 million is probably as good a case of cutting ones nose off to split ones face as I can think of. The runway is 1400 metres and needs to be extended to 2000 for safety.

Nolanger

tankbarry wrote: »

3. Dont know how we can do this but can the rich, TD's, and anybody who
knows things about jobs set up a Job's council that they can sit down and
get the jobs here. No more talking just ACTION.

TDs are useless because most are former school teachers. The rich don't care. The problem with Waterford is most of the brighter people leave after school. It's also got a reputation for being a factory city with unions. What kind of jobs do people want? More factories/call centres which will close after a few years and move abroad? What's the point in having a university here when the graduates can't find work in the county and will have to leave? Most of the Irish who are capable of setting up a company which can produce jobs emigrated years ago anyway.

mike65

Nolanger wrote: »

TDs are useless because most are former school teachers. The rich don't care. The problem with Waterford is most of the brighter people leave after school. It's also got a reputation for being a factory city with unions. What kind of jobs do people want? More factories/call centres which will close after a few years and move abroad? What's the point in having a university here when the graduates can't find work in the county and will have to leave? Most of the Irish who are capable of setting up a company which can produce jobs emigrated years ago anyway.

I'd have thought the point of a university was to have less reliance on call centres, and "screwdriver/soldering iron" jobs in the medium-long term

sunnysoutheast

Master and commander wrote: »

Are you saying it is out of begrudgery that the NUI object to WIT being a University.
Look i go to WIT and it's not what i would call university grade. Lots of lackluster lecturers,poor facilities, cold leaky buildings and a large propotion of the students are nothing more than riff-raff whose only reason for going to college is to get hammered every night. Education is anathema to alot of them. Even in my own class (final year in Level 8 some of them are such laid back, couldn't give a crap types it just goes beyond a joke.

AIRPORT. Waterford doesn't need a bigger airport. as said cork is 90 mins and is more than waterford could ever hope to be in a million yrs. Dublin is 150ish mins away, both with infinitely more destinations and carriers. It would be an inordinate waste of money to be squandering if they were to expand it any further. Shure its way way below capacity as it is. Any time i passed by it the place was fecking deserted like a ghost town.
In anycase its a rip off to fly from there to anywhere, i live near it and have never bothered with it as the destinations are rubbish and are a rip off. I always go to cork. as said if ryan air can't make it work, no-one can. If they wanted, they could buy up aer arann and operate their regional routes but its a waste of time.

The runway at Waterford is not big enough for the A320 family/737 jets so your Ryanair assertion is irrelevant. An extension to c.2000m and an increase in runway and taxiway width would be required. The runway can accommodate the BAe146/RJ family, but those aircraft are rare and becoming rarer so are not attractive to the low-cost operators.

It's a great pity that the expansion didn't happen, as a regular jet service to UK and European destinations at decent times would have been a massive asset for the region as a whole. Whilst I respect the effort Aer Arann put in flying to Southend in the middle of the day only really suits the retired or unemployed.

SSE

Odats

I went to DCU and then done my professional qualification training back home for chartered accountancy. Currently sitting in an airport hotel in Newark waiting to board a connecting flight to Haiti tomorrow(strange place to emigrate to I know).

This problem is not going to solve itself overnight and the TalkTalk job losses have brought the attention of the government.

In my opinion a quick fix Technological University is not going to solve the problem in it self. It's a University Light and would only be as previous posters commented window dressing the status and could open a can of worms with other IT's looking for same status as previously with the RTC's.

We need to set up a Brand Waterford promoting Waterford as a location for inward investment from multinationals, make Waterford an attractive tax benefit location with a waiver for companies from ER PRSI for say 2/3 years once they locate here also a one year grace period on CT or further reduced CT rate for designated unemployment blackspots. The airport is an important issue also and extension is crucial from a transport perspective.

Also reaching out to the Waterford/South East diaspora who have succeeded internationally and use them also as a tool in attracting inward investment. Having someone who has clout on an international scale would do better than sending a few councillors over on a jolly.

Unions in the current climate in my opinion are a negative in setting up business in Ireland. Waterford's reputation could hurt it also.

Nolanger

Someone in the Chamber of Commerce needs to get over to America and find business people with Waterford connections who will set up an industry here in the city.

dayshah

Nolanger wrote: »

Someone in the Chamber of Commerce needs to get over to America and find business people with Waterford connections who will set up an industry here in the city.

I think this shows our over dependence on FDI. I know Waterford Crystal now only has a minor presence, but for over 50 years its gave decent jobs. Similarly for Waterford Stanley. AOL/TalkTalk only lasted about 10 years.

I think we should promote lots of small companies that can export, things like Sporthouse, or that software stuff that came out of WIT. (But if the yanks are offering any jobs, I'd take the hand and all off them)

Smiley Burnett

Nolanger wrote: »

Someone in the Chamber of Commerce needs to get over to America and find business people with Waterford connections who will set up an industry here in the city.

They'll probably be accused of going on a useless junket by lefties seeking cheap political headlines, just like they did when Waterford City Council travelled overseas in an attempt to bring the Tall Ships to Waterford!!:mad:

p.s. How did the Tall Ships turn out??

Finnbar01

Nolanger wrote: »

Someone in the Chamber of Commerce needs to get over to America and find business people with Waterford connections who will set up an industry here in the city.

No, someone in the chamber of commerce needs to be pushing for deregulation of our economy.

sparkling sea

tankbarry wrote: »

With the staff in talk talk after losing there Jobs and im sure more places under pressure what does everybody here think we need here to help get the jobs flowing again. here is what I think will help

1. University ... Is proven to create jobs in the immediate area

2. Airport Runway extension bigger aircraft means more tourism means more
jobs. Also means Waterford will be seen by companys that are interestedin
waterford that we have an airport that can supply them with what they
want instead of having to travel to other airports which they dont want to
do. FACT

3. Dont know how we can do this but can the rich, TD's, and anybody who
knows things about jobs set up a Job's council that they can sit down and
get the jobs here. No more talking just ACTION.

I would like anybody to feel free to add to this. Lets keep it constructive.

I think a bit of brain storming is definitely needed unfortunately we have to be realistic and take note of current finanical position we are facing and the fact that our local TDs continue to allow exhorbitant rates to cripple and close many SMEs in Waterford while they stnd back and do nothing.

WIT getting uni status wont change a thing here unless there are fairly radical changes made at WIT including a higher and more consistant level of teaching. Also the Government and the third-level institutions themselves must address the question of funding along with the actual timing and level of research they produce and the types of research they under take. The companys they attract reflect job creation.

The airport runway wasn't lenghtened in the boom, its wont happen in the bust, the money isn't there and neither are the customers with money to spend. Aer Arann had flights to both Portugal and Spain in the summer but in the long run they wouldn't or didn't choose to run these flights this year.
We wont get our runway without philanthropic gestures of major proportions who would also be needed to cover ongoing costs aswell.

We already have a voluntary enterprise board made up of the rich and powerful and in my experience, for every 1 person they help there are 2 they hinder and 10 who level none the wiser!

Its up to us, we need to have faith in each other, support each other and hold each other to a much higher standard then we do now - then we might get politicans who will sucessfully lead us out of this nightmare

dayshah

Finnbar01 wrote: »

No, someone in the chamber of commerce needs to be pushing for deregulation of our economy.

And what exactly do you want deregulated? Ireland has one of the most deregulated economies in Europe, and unfortunately that included the banking sector. In all the international competitiveness scores Ireland does well in terms of red-tape.

I wonder how many people whining about red tape in Ireland ever tried to do business with bureaucracies abroad.

Finnbar01

dayshah wrote: »

And what exactly do you want deregulated? Ireland has one of the most deregulated economies in Europe, and unfortunately that included the banking sector. In all the international competitiveness scores Ireland does well in terms of red-tape.

I wonder how many people whining about red tape in Ireland ever tried to do business with bureaucracies abroad.

There's still too much red tape. Also we should ignore most of the ridiculous EU directives, the Europeans do so, so we should too.

merlante

Those saying that WIT is nowhere near university standard have very rose tinted views of what Irish universities are. I've studied and worked in a number of them and the difference is not huge by any means. Both kinds of institutes tend to be run "worse that you'd think". In the areas WIT is strong in, it is certainly at the so-called university standard.

People have to remember that the university and institute of technology labels only have legal existence in Irish law. In other countries the terms either mean something else or are not legally and officially defined. On a European or world-wide basis, 'university' doesn't really mean anything, particularly as the equivalent of IoTs in the German speaking world (Fachhochschulen), for example, actually translate their institutes as 'universities of technology' in English, because that's what they think makes sense in English.

The only thing that matters outside this parochial little island of ours is reputation, accreditation, proven research ability, teaching quality, and generally speaking, what ends up in a league tables. WIT has made great strides in some of these areas and lags in others. Unfortunately for WIT, the environment it is operating in, government, media, society, higher education sector, is not particularly well disposed towards it. (Which can effect rankings, for example, in many subtle ways.)

One of the biggest problems WIT faces that could be solved immediately is the uncertainty over its future. If WIT were to be re-designated WUT tomorrow and a 10 year plan were to be put in place to get the college well up into the university pack, things would begin to improve immediately. WUT would be pushed forward as a tier 1 institution by our government, who in backing it as such, would improve the reputation of the college overnight. This little boost in renaming would have to be eventually backed up with funding and actions, of course, but right away, student numbers would rise. This would lead to a rise in standards, soon more and better qualified staff, more research funding and therefore more and better PhDs. The single most important thing a university needs after good staff is good students. Students actually determine the standard that the college can operate at, because you have to target courses to the mean ability of students, to a large degree at least. (Notice how failure rates in top universities and failed 3rd rate colleges are not dissimilar.)

An immediate upgrade would have effects in course take-up as soon as the next academic year, as the seal of approval from the government instills confidence in Mammies and Daddies and students everywhere that little Johnny's degree will be as good from WUT as anywhere. Yes, those degrees are probably as good anyway, but perception is a large part of it.

dayshah

Finnbar01 wrote: »

There's still too much red tape. Also we should ignore most of the ridiculous EU directives, the Europeans do so, so we should too.

Specifically which directives do you think we should ignore, and you think everyone else ignores? Because, without showing any examples whatsoever, you just sound like someone having a whinge, who never so much as ran a tap.

coolperson05

I really sit on the fence. I'm a graduate of WIT and am now studying in TCD and the difference is shocking!
The staff were top class at WIT, but the management and admin was devastating. I can't speak for other Universities, but WIT is way behind the ones I investigated.

Saying that, WIT deserves to stand above other institutes in the country. (IMO alot of them shouldn't be there in the first place...). I dunno about the 'tech. university' title but stuff needs to change in WIT before it gets upgraded to everything. It's top of the IT sector and should market itself as such, concentrate on particular areas (business/I.T./nursing). It will quickly become bottom of the University sector if it's just a new sign on the Cork Rd.

And at the moment, that's all they can do. Ireland is broke! They're cutting peoples welfare and closing hospital beds. There's good universities in Ireland already and grants to get you there, the Government have NO money to upgrade IT's. It would cause outrage: 'Waterford get a Uni but pensioners are cut their fuel allowance'....
It's a great idea, and Waterford has been clearly neglected, but at the moment it can't be done properly so it shouldn't be done at all...Waterford will fall more into mockery with a University 'light' and an airport 'light' etc...